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Posted by: Sizemore23 Sep 6 2009, 08:43 PM

I have been practicing the minor pentatonic scale. Should I completely know this scale inside and out before learning a different scale or learn multiple ones at once?

Posted by: Conrad Harpham Sep 6 2009, 10:28 PM

Definitely learn more at the same time...You can learn all the positions of the pent minor scale, which is really important, and also the pentatonic major. Learnin the major scale and assosciated modes will really expand your scale knowledge, as will learning the minor scale and modes. I suggest learning all of these as soon as you can. If you have 30 mins a day on scale theory, take each scale on a different day - the neck will really come alive!

Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 6 2009, 11:23 PM

You can perhaps turn around the question.
Will you be able to play minor pentatonic for years
and put all other music gems a side for such a long time?
I guess Conrad is right, no need to stick with one,
learn as many as possible, it's never ending game tho,
nothing is fully learned, fretboard is huuuuge.

Posted by: Emir Hot Sep 7 2009, 08:28 AM

Learn as much as you can and use what sounds good. If you only learn one you won't have many options

Posted by: Sizemore23 Sep 8 2009, 01:40 AM

Thank You all for the help.

Posted by: Farmer Joe Sep 8 2009, 02:12 AM

Listen to the guys that posted before, they all know exactly what they're talking about. I would suggest learning all the positions of the minor pentatonic scale while you're at it, you can still learn other scales at the same time too, but I really only memorized 2 positions of the minor pentatonic scale, so i fell limited when I'm working on a collab that involves that scale. I am currently learning the other positions and shapes now too, so that i have them engraved in my memory.
Being a beginner pretty much in guitar scales myself too, I would maybe move on to the minor scale next since it'll be pretty similar to the pentatonic scale, just a couple more notes in it

Posted by: jdriver Sep 8 2009, 06:25 AM

You should follow Ivan's excellent lesson on this in his Pentatonic Workshop series. Using this you can learn the 5 box positions relatively quickly.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pentatonic-workshop-level1-caged-format-timing-exercises/

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Sep 8 2009, 07:15 AM

I would advise learning other scales as well but it is entirely up to you how you want to sound

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Sep 8 2009, 12:01 PM

This is up to you mate. In order not to get confused while learning, it can be good to learn the pentatonic scale as a whole pattern and then start with another scale and so on. If you are starting to learn scales, these are the ones that you really have to go through:

- pentatonic scales (5 modes)
- diatonic scales (7 modes)

check out my pentatonic and diatonic lessons for this:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pentatonic-workshop-level1-caged-format-timing-exercises/

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/mastering_diatonic_pattern_caged_method/]\

let me know if I can help you with this further. cheers.

Posted by: loundzilla Sep 8 2009, 12:09 PM

When you say "modes" do you mean Boxes/patterns?

Posted by: Conrad Harpham Sep 8 2009, 03:23 PM

No, not box patterns - for every degree (note) of a scale, you will find another one starts there..for example, if you take the G major scale, the second note is A...if you follow the G major pattern from the A you have A Dorian - these are called modes. Give us a shout if you want more info on them!

Posted by: loundzilla Sep 8 2009, 03:26 PM

i will at some point Conrad! I think i need to learn the major scales first. I've learn all the boxes of the minor pentatonic so its time to learn another scale

Posted by: Emir Hot Sep 8 2009, 04:45 PM

That's a good decision. I am working on it with Dexxter and some others at the moment. Check http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=30291 where I left the chart, video and the rest. He's already doing a great job with it.

Posted by: djohnneay Sep 8 2009, 04:47 PM

I don't even know the pentatonic scales, but I do know 3-note-per-string pattern all over the neck. This just interested me more, because it could be played faster, so I learned it. I've done multiple attempts to master the pentatonic scale, but never succeeded. When I need to improvise over a pentatonic pattern, I just use my modal knowledge, and skip the 2nd and the 6th of the minor or major scale.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Sep 8 2009, 05:58 PM

More specifically, patterns are the note layouts on the guitar fretboard and the patterns from those lessons that I provided contain modes within.
Modes are scales, and scale is universal term, quote from wiki:



There are however lots of different patterns that are not modes, for example arpeggio or chord patterns.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 8 2009, 06:39 PM

That's what a pentatonic IS in a first place,
major or minor scale with 2 missed notes.

Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Sep 8 2009, 06:41 PM

I don't think it's necessary to learn it perfectly. Actually it is good idea to practice it with all other scales, that way you'll be able to make connections between them and easily understand whole theoretical background.

Posted by: djohnneay Sep 9 2009, 11:17 AM

I know, but what I don't get is : 'how can not playing those 2 notes make your playing sound different ?'
Except that I play 2 notes less, my playing (to my ears) sounds roughly the same.
And in most cases it's doesn't sound bad when I don't leave out those 2 notes over the most chords because I would still be in the same scale.

I hate to bust in on this thread, but could you maybe give me an example when it will sound horrible when I play the diatonic minor scale instead of the pentatonic minor scale ? Just so I understand ?

Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 9 2009, 11:11 PM

That one great question imo
but the answer is not that easy to be found.

The thing is with our ears and how they are "raised" by us.
If you listen a lot to Iron Maiden (just an example)
you'll become comfortable with use of full diatonic scale ( minor scale mostly) in solos.
On the other hand if you're into Blues a lot you'll enjoy pentatonic most of the time.
And those 2 scales DO sound different, they give different moods.
Have you ever tried to play full minor scale over a blues progression, over and over?
Somehow it just sounds wrong, too mellow, maybe even naive, right?
2nd degree and 6th degree (specially minor 6th), they just don't fit the mood.
And that;s whey people tend to use Dorian a lot in Blues to spice things up a little,
they even just add major 6th to pentatonic, still avoiding 2nd.

I compared you to pretty different genres here, Metal and Blues,
but if you listen to different kinds of music you'll also
figure out how to create different solos using different scales,
talking about minor scale vs. minor pentatonic only,
you can switch between in the same solo to get different colors from both scales.

Maybe my explanation isn't that easy to understand
cause you really have to play different stuff to feel them in a right way,
you'll get there eventually.

Posted by: djohnneay Sep 10 2009, 08:52 AM

Thanks for that anwser Muris !

I like the comparison you made, because I like both genres.
A friend of mine is typically into blues, and sometimes we jam over some blues backing.
Now I get why my bluesplaying 'lacked' something, I was roughly using same 3nps patterns as always, while he was using minor pentatonic.

Seems I gotta do lots and lots more of practice

Posted by: loundzilla Sep 10 2009, 09:18 AM

Thats painted a pretty good picture for me too Muris... Thanks

Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 10 2009, 11:52 AM

Ahh, good then.


You're welcome.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Sep 10 2009, 12:06 PM

Excellent explanations Muris for Minor scale vs Minor pentatonic.
I would just add that you should learn both and let your ear be the judge of what you should use where