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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ If I Only Knew More Scales Than The Pentatonic...
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 27 2014, 04:53 PM
Learning new scales can be a real eye-opener but it can also be a brick wall for some people. There are lots of scales to learn that you can find in books, tabs and off course at http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showforum=25 but the most important thing is to know how and where to use them.
Do you feel limited by your scales knowledge? Have you tried learning new scales? How did it work out?
Please share your story here and we will be able to help each other.
Posted by: Marius Pop May 28 2014, 07:10 PM
Nice topic, mate! I believe that once you have a firm knowledge of the major/minor scales you can build up a lot from there much easily 
and the pentatonic is within them, of course 
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 28 2014, 07:35 PM
Hey guys! Don't be shy and comment here!
I'll be talking about Phrygian Major Mode at the Vchat in some minutes. Feel free to join: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/chat/
Posted by: Mertay May 28 2014, 07:48 PM
I do know a few but when speaking of this I prefer to get into a little detail, is it for jamming or composing manner.
Cause when jamming you don't have the luxury to have time thinking of construction, but when composing one who has no idea of what (for example) modes are may use them as he/she probably heard it in a song or got familiar by practicing a solo.
My idea of guitarist development is, practicing and learning (not memorise but using) new scales is a must until someone has enough experience to identify/construct musical ideas to songs. With enough experience it starts to become often that while composing a melody one might not have an idea what scale it is until he/she analyzes it, which is pretty interesting
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 28 2014, 10:28 PM
but when speaking of this I prefer to get into a little detail, is it for jamming or composing manner.Cause when jamming you don't have the luxury to have time thinking of construction, but when composing one who has no idea of what (for example) modes are may use them as he/she probably heard it in a song or got familiar by practicing a solo.
My idea of guitarist development is, practicing and learning (not memorise but using) new scales is a must until someone has enough experience to identify/construct musical ideas to songs. With enough experience it starts to become often that while composing a melody one might not have an idea what scale it is until he/she analyzes it, which is pretty interesting
Most of the times, when I'm composing I just pay attention to what sounds in my mind, and I consider very important to have our ear trained to make the process or transposing ideas to guitar fast. Learning new scales doesn't only give us more tools for improvising, it also open our mind to new sounds and new combination of notes. I think that no matter if you forget the shapes in your guitar, if you feel the scale characteristic sound, and even more if you sing it, you incorporate new combinations into your mind library, don't you think so?
Posted by: Mertay May 28 2014, 11:21 PM
Exactly we all have listening habits that can sometimes limit us, its a great way to break free from such limitation.
I've seen a few videos like Vai or Satriani experimenting ideas and then turn them into songs...but fact is they never bring anything theoretically new, tonalities boundaries were broken even before they were born.
Their success though is to "fit" the idea accessible to a genre or their style.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 29 2014, 08:51 AM
Heh, Gabi has pointed out an important aspect
I for one am NEVER thinking in terms of scales when I am writing or improvising - I just want to play what I hear in my head. If I want to refine that, I will record the line and see how I can tweak it. But prior ear training in respect to a particular scale, is actually the core that triggers certain sounds in our mind and the whole magic occurs when our brain mixes and matches things in a subconscious way, giving birth to musical ideas based on what we have been feeding him before.
Hah! This is magic
Learn to HEAR and internalize the sounds of a scale rather then learning positions on the fretboard at first
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 29 2014, 03:10 PM
I for one am NEVER thinking in terms of scales when I am writing or improvising - I just want to play what I hear in my head. If I want to refine that, I will record the line and see how I can tweak it. But prior ear training in respect to a particular scale, is actually the core that triggers certain sounds in our mind and the whole magic occurs when our brain mixes and matches things in a subconscious way, giving birth to musical ideas based on what we have been feeding him before.
Hah! This is magic
Learn to HEAR and internalize the sounds of a scale rather then learning positions on the fretboard at first
Listening to varied music and singing along the melodies is also another secret for this. I've been doing this since I was a child.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 30 2014, 08:27 AM
And this makes two of us
I had NO clue of what I was singing - in respect to lyrics - but when I was about 8, the famous hit 'Zombie' by the Cranberries came out. Needless to say, I was in the bathtub and singing out loud to the chorus My mom and dad were crazy laughing
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 31 2014, 04:37 PM
I had NO clue of what I was singing - in respect to lyrics - but when I was about 8, the famous hit 'Zombie' by the Cranberries came out. Needless to say, I was in the bathtub and singing out loud to the chorus My mom and dad were crazy laughing hahaha another coincidence, I used to sing melodies without understanding a work of what I was singing... maybe this makes us focus even more on the melodic side of music.
Posted by: PosterBoy May 31 2014, 10:51 PM
I lack the chordal and progression knowledge to create a backing for the scales to be used over.
I need to look at some more interesting music and see what chord extensions and progressions are being used or how they put 2 chord vamps together in an interesting way to play more modally
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 1 2014, 09:06 AM
I need to look at some more interesting music and see what chord extensions and progressions are being used or how they put 2 chord vamps together in an interesting way to play more modally
First of all you should understand modal theory and the way in which modes can be harmonized - you will then be able to discern modal progressions
Take a look here: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=48825Each mode derived from the major scale is described nicely and thoroughly
Please tell us if you need more guidance!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 1 2014, 03:45 PM
Well said Cosmin. Go for that stuff Posterboy which is very rich and then let us know when you need more help.
At the same time, analyze the music that you like, check what progressions and songs they use and try to use the theory thread to understand why it works that good. I'm here to help you if you need it.
Posted by: korblitz Jun 1 2014, 04:03 PM
I feel like pentatonic, or 5 note scales, are the starting block to understand the role of a scale. The more I delve deeper into scales: I see that the major scale is the parent scale. Where a parent scale, is the building block of all possible scales. If you look at a scale in scale degrees, they are just variations of the parent scale a.k.a major scale.
Posted by: PosterBoy Jun 1 2014, 09:04 PM
At the same time, analyze the music that you like, check what progressions and songs they use and try to use the theory thread to understand why it works that good. I'm here to help you if you need it.
I found this as well which is really good
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=6023
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 2 2014, 07:30 AM
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=6023
Indeed man, there is valuable info here as well
Read through and try to apply it in as many tonalities as possible!The minor and major pentatonic scales sit at the root of many other scales
They are like a skeleton on which you can place other notes to form various modes for instance:
Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6 - if for instance you add the 4th and 7th you get the major scale
Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7 - if you add the 2nd and b6th, you get the minor scale
What other notes can you add to the minor and major pentatonic to create other modes?
Posted by: bleez Jun 2 2014, 08:29 AM
I really only know minor pentatonic
although I do like the sound of it a lot. Ive tried a couple of times trying to learn more scale theory in general but I tend to get either confused or overwhelmed and just go back to spending my practice time trying to play fast 
I do hate that I dont seem to know a lot of chords. I can listen to, say, Opeth, especially their Damnation album and Im blown away with all the different sounding chords they use, really cold spooky sounding stuff. I have no idea what any of those chords could be.
Posted by: korblitz Jun 2 2014, 09:08 AM
Read through and try to apply it in as many tonalities as possible!The minor and major pentatonic scales sit at the root of many other scales
They are like a skeleton on which you can place other notes to form various modes for instance:
Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6 - if for instance you add the 4th and 7th you get the major scale
Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7 - if you add the 2nd and b6th, you get the minor scale
What other notes can you add to the minor and major pentatonic to create other modes?
Adding a #4 to the major pentatonic, would that be a major pentatonic lydian? 1 2 3 #4 5 6. No it wouldn't right? It has six notes. But I need the 3 to define if it's major or minor so I could do 1 2 3 #4 5 for Major Lydian Pentatonic?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 2 2014, 06:55 PM
Pentatonic means 5 tones, so I wouldn't call Pentatonic to a 6 notes scale. I think that this lesson http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/modal-pentatonics-lydian-part-5/, and this thread http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=49124, will give you a full coverage of this interesting variation of the Pentatonic Major.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 3 2014, 07:22 AM
Spot on addition from Gabi Korb, you just need to add the #4 and the 7 to get the Lydian
1 2 3 5 6 = major pentatonic
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 = Lydian
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 4 2014, 04:42 PM
Korb, you just need to add the #4 and the 7 to get the Lydian 1 2 3 5 6 = major pentatonic
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 = Lydian
Exactly. There I shared a lesson where you can hear it in action!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 5 2014, 07:30 AM
I found that this approach is a great way to remember ALL the 7 modes and deploy them anytime, but there's one condition involved - you need to know your guitar neck pretty darn well and be able to spot the necessary notes
A good approach is to pick up a progression, see what modes can be used over the chords and play ONLY the characteristic scale degrees of those modes over the progression in as many spots on the neck as possible. You will learn those notes faster that way
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