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Posted by: shellshock1911 Nov 25 2007, 05:08 PM

Ok, everytime I listen to a song I try to analyze the soloes a lot and understand why a certain artist plays a certain lick over a certain chord and whatnot, well anyway I was listening to Hangar 18 today and the fourth solo dumbfounded me.

He does this arpeggio over a B minor chord.

|--19p16-------------------------------16------|
|----------18-----------------------18----------|
|--------------19-16------16-19---------------|
|----------------------18------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|

So first of all I couldn't figure out what you would call this...the notes in it are B, Ab, F, D. Well that kinda looks like G7b9, but there is no G in that arpeggio. So, what would this be called, and why is it over B minor chord (which by the way isn't even in the key of D minor, which is the key of this song.)

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 25 2007, 05:45 PM

While im no theory expert, often times, especially in metal, guitarists will venture outside the key of the song to create a different sound, add a little tension, i think David did a lesson on this actually. Thats probably Friedman's solo, Ive seen him leave the key of a song before, temporarily though, in his solo stuff, and on a few Megadeth tunes.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Nov 25 2007, 05:53 PM

Yea, simply going out of key in a legato, alternate picking run or something is common, but I doubt anyone would play an out of key arpeggio over and out of key chord, it would sound really dissonant. But in this song it doesn't sound dissonant, thats why I'm trying to figure out how G7b9, or whatever it is called is related to B minor in the key of D minor.

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 25 2007, 05:56 PM

Thats a B diminished arpeggio/chord which would sound pretty cool over a B minor chord-

I havent looked at this song in detail but i remember there being an extended solo section which is likely to have a key modulation in it somewhere- Perhaps that is why there is a B minor chord? Let us know if you crack it!

Posted by: shellshock1911 Nov 25 2007, 06:14 PM

Ah, I see now, thx! But, I think it is just him going out of key. It is like a chromatic riff which sounds good usually when out of key, the root notes are like like A-Bb-B-Bb-A-Bb-B-C-A-Bb-B, and then instead of playing A again, he just does a sixteenth note Amaj scale run or somethjing.

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 25 2007, 06:28 PM

I had a quick look at a tab on UG...

Yeh you can throw in a riff that assends/descends chromatically wherever in metal for a bit of flavour to the song. I wouldnt really call this out of key as it implies theyve messed up or something but it definitely doesnt belong to just one scale. For that section of the solo- he actually starts each bar/measure of the mini solo with the same note as the note in the bass of the chord/riff being played below it. When he starts that B diminshed arpeggio, the section of the riff being played below it contains a B and a D (and the second B an octave higher) so playing a B diminshed over it which like you said contains the notes B, Ab, F, D, there are no conflicting notes.

Posted by: exorcyze Nov 26 2007, 05:31 PM

Also, the scales are basically guidelines for what can sound good - but not always absolute. I believe that notes outside of the scale are usually called "passing tones" - and are typically used to add tension or a little spice. The ears are always the final judgement on what works and what doesn't - regardless of the "scales" being used. =)

( Someone correct me if I'm wrong! )

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 27 2007, 12:34 AM

You're wrong! (Only joking), I couldn't agree more - theory and scales are great to explain what you played after you played it and can even guide you, but the final truth is whether or not you think it sounds good.

Posted by: lavendell Nov 27 2007, 08:48 AM

+1