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The Dual Collab: Student Team (cael)
Caelumamittendum
Nov 18 2021, 10:30 PM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (DeGroot @ Nov 18 2021, 03:51 PM) *
I’m in. 🙂 I’m not exactly sure which part I’ll contribute yet. Nice job on the presentation and song!


Somehow GMC stole my first reply to you.

Awesome! There's no hurry, but I'd love to hear maybe your own personal take on the motif of course - and anything else you want to throw at us cool.gif

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 18 2021, 08:05 PM) *
This is very very well put together. Super congrats on that!! I think it's gonna be awesome smile.gif Count me in!!


Awesome, Todd! I look forward to hearing what you have in mind and what you come up smile.gif

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 18 2021, 11:40 PM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 18 2021, 10:43 PM) *
Just for the record, the GP7 file won't download in Brave, in Firefox a left click is all that's needed then you get the option to open or save, Chrome it's a right click and Edge is a right click. I know most users will know their browser but some new comers might not.

Thanks for this Ben cool.gif

Here's what I was thinking. I'm not applying any musical theory, (I don't know a lot), I've just approached it how I would on my guitar, I just wanted to put it out there in GP for the time being until I get chance to record it.

I think when I record it I will add a slightly distorted sound, not sure yet. As said, I don't even know if it's musically correct.

[attachment=53045:Lonesome...tif_Phil.gp]


Hey Phil! Cool idea with going for the harmony!

I didn't write the chords (above the tab) in the melody motif that I send, and maybe that would have helped make it all pop more - you might notice some "off" notes when you go to work on it on your guitar against the backing...

...however it did give me a reason to write this little information (to everyone) that I think you can use to really hit home those harmonies:

--------------------

HARMONIES
(EDIT: I will record a video with examples soon, but my voice is not great cause of sickness at the moment)


I want to show a few little neat tricks, which are always gonna work quite well, when creating harmonies - for me it is my very first step when creating "harmonies":

Trick 1:
When creating a harmony look at the scale we're in - in this case it's D major. A lot of the time simply playing the note that is a 3rd, 5th or 6th above the melody will be a starting point, but it will not always sound great. However, you can find the 3rd by going from the note in the melody, skipping the next note and playing the following. For instance here we play an A note on the first beat and we consider this as the "root" when creating a harmony for it, even if it isn't the root of the underlying chord or scale.
- For the 3rd above we can count: A (1st) - skip the B (2nd) - C# (3rd)!
- The same can be done for 5th and 6th: A (1st) - skip B (2nd), C# (3rd), D (4th) - E (5th), F# (6th)
These notes (C#, E and F#) can of course be played below the melody line too.

This gives a very "safe" starting point, that will be in the key of D major, but some of the notes might still sound a bit "iffy" when played with the chords and original melody. Sometimes choosing a different note of those three (3rd, 5th or 6th from the note in the melody) can be a quick fix to that, but we can also look at "trick 2" below for another trick:

Trick 2:
Let's focus on the chords below the melody before we create the harmony and take advantage of our knowledge here:
The first chord is a D major chord, which consists of the notes D, F# and A, as I'm sure you are aware. The first note of the melody line is an A note, so maybe we want to try a note that is in the chord, but isn't the A note - we're left with two choices then: F# and D. Next note up in the melody is a D - leaving us with a choice of F# and A notes.

This approach will be almost fail-safe and guaranteed to work, as it plays on the notes from the underlying chords in the backing track.

You might hit a bit of a roadblock when you notice that the melody line in the first bar has an E note. Not to worry though! We can combine trick 1 and 2 if we want some spice, but we can also just stay within a note from the underlying chord:

This gives the option to...
- Try finding a note that is a 3rd, 5th or 6th above that E note (but still in the scale of D major) for that extra spice.
- Still play a note within the chord of D major (D, F# and A) to be relatively safe

Summary:
I'd think of the whole process almost as preparing a meal - maybe a sandwich. The underlying chords are the very basic ingredient, the bread or baguette. The melody line is the main part of the sandwich: the ham and cheese and mayonnaise, but maybe you want some safe extra bits too that go in safe harmony with the rest such as cucumber, salad and tomatoes. To spice it up just a bit you could add some more "spicy choices", such as jalapños and some spices or seasoning. You might not want your entire sandwich to taste of jalapeños though, so maybe you only add a few of those.

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 18 2021, 11:59 PM


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Phil66
Nov 19 2021, 06:15 AM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 9.439
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 18 2021, 10:40 PM) *
Hey Phil! Cool idea with going for the harmony!

I didn't write the chords (above the tab) in the melody motif that I send, and maybe that would have helped make it all pop more - you might notice some "off" notes when you go to work on it on your guitar against the backing...

...however it did give me a reason to write this little information (to everyone) that I think you can use to really hit home those harmonies:

--------------------

HARMONIES
(EDIT: I will record a video with examples soon, but my voice is not great cause of sickness at the moment)


I want to show a few little neat tricks, which are always gonna work quite well, when creating harmonies - for me it is my very first step when creating "harmonies":

Trick 1:
When creating a harmony look at the scale we're in - in this case it's D major. A lot of the time simply playing the note that is a 3rd, 5th or 6th above the melody will be a starting point, but it will not always sound great. However, you can find the 3rd by going from the note in the melody, skipping the next note and playing the following. For instance here we play an A note on the first beat and we consider this as the "root" when creating a harmony for it, even if it isn't the root of the underlying chord or scale.
- For the 3rd above we can count: A (1st) - skip the B (2nd) - C# (3rd)!
- The same can be done for 5th and 6th: A (1st) - skip B (2nd), C# (3rd), D (4th) - E (5th), F# (6th)
These notes (C#, E and F#) can of course be played below the melody line too.

This gives a very "safe" starting point, that will be in the key of D major, but some of the notes might still sound a bit "iffy" when played with the chords and original melody. Sometimes choosing a different note of those three (3rd, 5th or 6th from the note in the melody) can be a quick fix to that, but we can also look at "trick 2" below for another trick:

Trick 2:
Let's focus on the chords below the melody before we create the harmony and take advantage of our knowledge here:
The first chord is a D major chord, which consists of the notes D, F# and A, as I'm sure you are aware. The first note of the melody line is an A note, so maybe we want to try a note that is in the chord, but isn't the A note - we're left with two choices then: F# and D. Next note up in the melody is a D - leaving us with a choice of F# and A notes.

This approach will be almost fail-safe and guaranteed to work, as it plays on the notes from the underlying chords in the backing track.

You might hit a bit of a roadblock when you notice that the melody line in the first bar has an E note. Not to worry though! We can combine trick 1 and 2 if we want some spice, but we can also just stay within a note from the underlying chord:

This gives the option to...
- Try finding a note that is a 3rd, 5th or 6th above that E note (but still in the scale of D major) for that extra spice.
- Still play a note within the chord of D major (D, F# and A) to be relatively safe

Summary:
I'd think of the whole process almost as preparing a meal - maybe a sandwich. The underlying chords are the very basic ingredient, the bread or baguette. The melody line is the main part of the sandwich: the ham and cheese and mayonnaise, but maybe you want some safe extra bits too that go in safe harmony with the rest such as cucumber, salad and tomatoes. To spice it up just a bit you could add some more "spicy choices", such as jalapños and some spices or seasoning. You might not want your entire sandwich to taste of jalapeños though, so maybe you only add a few of those.


Thanks Ben,

As you've probably noticed, I moved everything across two strings towards the bass taking infinity account that pesky B string being "wrong" on the guitar biggrin.gif Had I not had the GP file I would have just played something that came into my head (as I always do) without regard for theory but using the scale generator to see what's "allowed", Gab often said it was "interesting now choice" maybe that was a euphemism for something else biggrin.gif

I'll try a theoretical route as you suggest and also a winging it (my go to) approach but just for the record (no pun intended) in theoretical terms what am I doing there?

PS: You said "you might notice some "off" notes when you go to work on it on your guitar against the backing", I rarely notice things like this, my ear isn't that good still, I guess that's why I wing it and if anyone points my bad notes out, I just say it's because of my avant garde jazz roots laugh.gif tongue.gif I guess my kinda musical spice is akin to vindaloo sauce on apple pie rolleyes.gif

Cheers for the advice buddy

Phil

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 19 2021, 06:44 AM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 19 2021, 07:15 AM) *
Thanks Ben,

As you've probably noticed, I moved everything across two strings towards the bass taking infinity account that pesky B string being "wrong" on the guitar biggrin.gif Had I not had the GP file I would have just played something that came into my head (as I always do) without regard for theory but using the scale generator to see what's "allowed", Gab often said it was "interesting now choice" maybe that was a euphemism for something else biggrin.gif

I'll try a theoretical route as you suggest and also a winging it (my go to) approach but just for the record (no pun intended) in theoretical terms what am I doing there?

PS: You said "you might notice some "off" notes when you go to work on it on your guitar against the backing", I rarely notice things like this, my ear isn't that good still, I guess that's why I wing it and if anyone points my bad notes out, I just say it's because of my avant garde jazz roots laugh.gif tongue.gif I guess my kinda musical spice is akin to vindaloo sauce on apple pie rolleyes.gif

Cheers for the advice buddy

Phil


Don't worry too much about the theoretical side of coming up with a harmony part if it becomes troublesome smile.gif At that point I'd at least just suggesting staying in the key of D major.

I think for the most part you harmonized it with a mix of minor 7th notes, i.e. the B note below the first A (that distance is a minor 7th) and some 6ths, however some of the notes were also not in the D major scale, but don't worry too much about it. I think I could have sent you a file with the chord names on top of each bar, and that might have made it a lot easier too! And if you use the scale generator, which I think is a great choice, make sure it's set to "D major". I noticed a D# and G# that aren't in the key of D major. But I think it's a great start for a learning process. Makes me happy to see! cool.gif

If you go for "winging it", which is totally cool too, I'd suggest just staying in the key of the D major scale. smile.gif

It wasn't all that bad though, mate, but I'd like to aim for what I know you can do! I still remember one of your jams on Soundcloud that sounded really great and emotional!

Keep rocking, I appreciate the participation!

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 19 2021, 06:45 AM


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tflava
Nov 19 2021, 08:05 AM
Experienced Tone Seeker
Posts: 670
Joined: 28-June 13
From: Den Helder (Holland)
Nice Ben. Im in. Ill hope i can open the gp files because i havent used it for a Long time.

Grtz tim

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 19 2021, 08:34 AM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (tflava @ Nov 19 2021, 09:05 AM) *
Nice Ben. Im in. Ill hope i can open the gp files because i havent used it for a Long time.

Grtz tim


Awesome! Glad to hear you are in! cool.gif

I don't think it's all too important to be able to open the gp files unless you really want to - mostly it's just a tab of the motif, which is already in the post as a picture smile.gif

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Phil66
Nov 19 2021, 09:06 AM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 9.439
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 19 2021, 05:44 AM) *
Don't worry too much about the theoretical side of coming up with a harmony part if it becomes troublesome smile.gif At that point I'd at least just suggesting staying in the key of D major.

I think for the most part you harmonized it with a mix of minor 7th notes, i.e. the B note below the first A (that distance is a minor 7th) and some 6ths, however some of the notes were also not in the D major scale, but don't worry too much about it. I think I could have sent you a file with the chord names on top of each bar, and that might have made it a lot easier too! And if you use the scale generator, which I think is a great choice, make sure it's set to "D major". I noticed a D# and G# that aren't in the key of D major. But I think it's a great start for a learning process. Makes me happy to see! cool.gif

If you go for "winging it", which is totally cool too, I'd suggest just staying in the key of the D major scale. smile.gif

It wasn't all that bad though, mate, but I'd like to aim for what I know you can do! I still remember one of your jams on Soundcloud that sounded really great and emotional!

Keep rocking, I appreciate the participation!



Thanks buddy,

To my ears it sounded sweet, to trained and more knowledgeable ears it may sound "wrong". Nothing actually clashed in a bad way to me but then I like mint sauce on beef wink.gif

Cheers buddy, back to the drawing board.

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net


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--------------------
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Thanks.



SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE





Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

Israelmore Ayivor
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Caelumamittendum
Nov 19 2021, 10:37 AM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 19 2021, 10:06 AM) *
Thanks buddy,

To my ears it sounded sweet, to trained and more knowledgeable ears it may sound "wrong". Nothing actually clashed in a bad way to me but then I like mint sauce on beef wink.gif

Cheers buddy, back to the drawing board.


No stress, there is plenty of time. I'd suggest at least staying with D major/B minor when harmonizing here. That's gonna give the best result. I hope it didn't come across as harsh - it's just that I'd like to include as much from everybody as I possible can, while also sharing some thoughts and tips along the way smile.gif

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Phil66
Nov 19 2021, 10:57 AM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 9.439
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 19 2021, 09:37 AM) *
No stress, there is plenty of time. I'd suggest at least staying with D major/B minor when harmonizing here. That's gonna give the best result. I hope it didn't come across as harsh - it's just that I'd like to include as much from everybody as I possible can, while also sharing some thoughts and tips along the way smile.gif


It didn't come across as harsh buddy but don't worry about that anyway, I've got broad shoulders and a slippery back, I'm no snowflake buddy be harsh if you want. just say "Phil, I've never heard such crap, do it again wink.gif laugh.gif

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--------------------
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Thanks.



SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE





Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

Israelmore Ayivor
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MisterM
Nov 19 2021, 07:54 PM
Veteran Tone Master
Posts: 1.515
Joined: 8-January 15
From: France
Hi Cael

I worked yesteday and today
I should post a take soon with the 1rst BT.
I really appreciate the timing of the lesson.
It’s very formative to play at the back of time

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This post has been edited by MisterM: Nov 19 2021, 07:55 PM
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Caelumamittendum
Nov 20 2021, 03:25 AM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 19 2021, 11:57 AM) *
It didn't come across as harsh buddy but don't worry about that anyway, I've got broad shoulders and a slippery back, I'm no snowflake buddy be harsh if you want. just say "Phil, I've never heard such crap, do it again wink.gif laugh.gif


You know that's not my style either - I try to be motivating though cool.gif

QUOTE (MisterM @ Nov 19 2021, 08:54 PM) *
Hi Cael

I worked yesteday and today
I should post a take soon with the 1rst BT.
I really appreciate the timing of the lesson.
It’s very formative to play at the back of time


Nice, MisterM! Take your time! I look forward to hearing what you got! cool.gif

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Phil66
Nov 20 2021, 08:42 AM
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Posts: 9.439
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 20 2021, 02:25 AM) *
You know that's not my style either - I try to be motivating though cool.gif


I know buddy, I was just trying to emphasise by way of humour, that you don't need to tread on eggshells around me, it's all good wink.gif

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Thanks.



SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE





Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

Israelmore Ayivor
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tflava
Nov 20 2021, 08:12 PM
Experienced Tone Seeker
Posts: 670
Joined: 28-June 13
From: Den Helder (Holland)
Hello Ben,

i tried to come up with a melodic solo today.
This is what i got so far.
I need to make it flow more but wanted to hear to you what i have in my mind.
What do you think?

grtzz tim

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 21 2021, 05:25 PM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (tflava @ Nov 20 2021, 09:12 PM) *
Hello Ben,

i tried to come up with a melodic solo today.
This is what i got so far.
I need to make it flow more but wanted to hear to you what i have in my mind.
What do you think?

grtzz tim


Awesome, Tim! Thanks for sharing smile.gif I'll get back to you with a comment a bit later on. I've been a bit under the weather over the weekend, so I'm a bit slow at replying. Need to ration my energy a bit laugh.gif

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MisterM
Nov 21 2021, 06:19 PM
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Joined: 8-January 15
From: France
Hi TFLAVA

It's good first idea

The Backingtrack is slow and quiet.
You have to focus on the times.

In my opinion you are playing the notes too early.
It takes work and a lot of calm.

This will make you progress a lot if you devote a little time

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 21 2021, 06:22 PM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (MisterM @ Nov 21 2021, 07:19 PM) *
Hi TFLAVA

It's good first idea

The Backingtrack is slow and quiet.
You have to focus on the times.

In my opinion you are playing the notes too early.
It takes work and a lot of calm.

This will make you progress a lot if you devote a little time


Great advice, MisterM! Yes, it is a slow tempo. The BPM is 74, but the snare drum is even half time (in some of the parts), so feels slow. A suggestion to feel more comfortable with the tempo can be to put a metronome at 8th notes in 74 BPM, and not quarter notes. Or put the metronome to 148 of course. That way it will give twice as many clicks smile.gif

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 21 2021, 06:24 PM


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tflava
Nov 21 2021, 06:48 PM
Experienced Tone Seeker
Posts: 670
Joined: 28-June 13
From: Den Helder (Holland)
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 21 2021, 04:25 PM) *
Awesome, Tim! Thanks for sharing smile.gif I'll get back to you with a comment a bit later on. I've been a bit under the weather over the weekend, so I'm a bit slow at replying. Need to ration my energy a bit laugh.gif


No problem man.
Its just my main idea. Now i need to polish it and focus on details such as timing and other things smile.gif

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MisterM
Nov 22 2021, 06:33 PM
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Posts: 1.515
Joined: 8-January 15
From: France
Hi

Here 2 takes.
I have some difficulty to keep sustain on some notes.
I continue my work. It's very interesting.
What do you think about it ?






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Phil66
Nov 22 2021, 09:58 PM
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Posts: 9.439
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
For now, I've just gone for a background kind of piece, more a mood/scene setting thing than a solo. I'm still thinking about the chorus motif.

Very rough, it's just a sketch completely improvised just to get into it a bit. As said, it's more of a mood/scene setter than anything else.



Cheers

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--------------------
My Serenity Dimension project is available on Spotify, Facebook and Bandcamp. Please check it out and share if you like it.
Thanks.



SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE





Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

Israelmore Ayivor
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Caelumamittendum
Nov 23 2021, 03:59 AM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
Thanks, Tim, MisterM and Phil. I'll get back to you all as soon as possible! Still struggling with this cold/sore throat/coughing. My voice is almost completely gone at the moment, but I think it's moving in the right direction and that I'll be fully back in a day or two. But for now I just wanted to say that I'm really happy to see the participation cool.gif

I want to give some comments, video replies and such when I'm feeling a bit better and not looking like something the cat dragged in. laugh.gif

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Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!


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