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The Dual Collab: Student Team (cael)
Caelumamittendum
Nov 25 2021, 08:38 PM
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 25 2021, 09:28 PM) *
Hey I’m working on Cjirus section and notice a quick chord switcharoo at the end. What are the last Two chords? A7 with F# in bass as final chord.


Nice to hear you are in as well!

The two chords are A (major) and F#7 in that last measure smile.gif

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Jim S.
Nov 25 2021, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 25 2021, 03:38 PM) *
Nice to hear you are in as well!

The two chords are A (major) and F#7 in that last measure smile.gif


I’m happy to be back!

So the f#7 implies B maj resolution???

I’ve got a great solo started but am having a hard time nailing the end. This is so fun!!!

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 25 2021, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 25 2021, 11:27 PM) *
I’m happy to be back!

So the f#7 implies B maj resolution???

I’ve got a great solo started but am having a hard time nailing the end. This is so fun!!!


The "Free Solo Section A" starts on a B minor chord, so the F#7 works nicely as a resolution to that, as the F#7 has a leading tone back to B. I haven't spoken about this in the first post, but on that F#7 chord you can actually use B harmonic minor and it will likely sound more like a resolution when going into the next section, depending on how the sections and everything else is combined. I think we'll work some more on the individual parts so far and then at some point I'll try to put something together and we take it from there smile.gif

Here is the B harmonic minor scale just for reference, if you want to try it just over that F#7 chord.



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ClaudioStrat
Nov 26 2021, 12:39 AM
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From: uk
Hi Cael,

sorry little late on this. First let me say really nice work, the whole project is really good (made me think of some Ennio Morricone tunes) and your explanations are top.

I could not resist to give it a go, with a little melodic solo, a bit of D relative Minor and Pentatonic. Is a bit freestyle, probably get a little lost toward the end... tongue.gif

would love to know what you think?

anyways really good fun, thanks in advance

Best,
Claudio

Attached File  lonecowboy_solo_A_practice_MP3.mp3 ( 2.23MB ) Number of downloads: 21

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Jim S.
Nov 26 2021, 04:21 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 25 2021, 06:00 PM) *
The "Free Solo Section A" starts on a B minor chord, so the F#7 works nicely as a resolution to that, as the F#7 has a leading tone back to B. I haven't spoken about this in the first post, but on that F#7 chord you can actually use B harmonic minor and it will likely sound more like a resolution when going into the next section, depending on how the sections and everything else is combined. I think we'll work some more on the individual parts so far and then at some point I'll try to put something together and we take it from there smile.gif

Here is the B harmonic minor scale just for reference, if you want to try it just over that F#7 chord.




Wow I did not expect that. Bmin resolves just as well... I guess the note B is the star and the other tones are not as important in this instance. I love it. It's pretty late here or I would be cranking this up a bit right now...

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This post has been edited by Jim S.: Nov 26 2021, 04:22 AM
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Caelumamittendum
Nov 26 2021, 07:34 AM
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 26 2021, 05:21 AM) *
Wow I did not expect that. Bmin resolves just as well... I guess the note B is the star and the other tones are not as important in this instance. I love it. It's pretty late here or I would be cranking this up a bit right now...


The V7 (dominant) to minor-i chord is used a lot, and it is still considered a perfect cadence. As an example you hear it in Muris' "Extreme Neoclassical" lesson too at the end, going between E (major) and A minor. You can check it out here: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...me-neo-classic/

In this collab it is F#7 in the chorus to Bm in the "free solo section". Now, of course "home" feels more like D major in the chorus, but since I wanted to be able to transition into the "Solo Section A", which has more of a B minor feel, I used that F#7 to set up that next section.

It gives more of a resolution going from F#7 to Bm than F#m to Bm, because of the leading tone in F#7 - the A# note which creates tension and usually our ears like tension to go away again. The Bm works well to release that tension.




____________________________________________________


The following section is just some added thoughts and explanations, but it is not necesary to read it.


Theory stuff


I would maybe not think of it as a completely perfect cadence and resolution here though, given that we're taking the song to a different section and not going "back home" - or repeating the chorus. The chorus starts on a D major chord and feels at peace there, but using the F#7 leads us nicely on to the Bm of the next section. You could think of the F#7 as the dominant to Bm.

A good way to transition into another tonality is to consider the i-chord of the new tonality as "home" and then use the dominant 7th chord from the new tonality to lead us there. In the case of this collaboration we're not actually going far from our "home", as D major and B minor are relatives to each other. B minor is the relative minor of D major. We could have gone for something more distant and taken a similar approach, but I felt it was better to stay around the same relative keys smile.gif

In a D major key the chords would be D, Em, F#m, G, A, Bm, C#dim. As 7th chords, those would be D major 7, E minor 7, F# minor 7, G major 7, A7 (dominant), Bm7 and C#m7b5.



Attached Image

In a B minor key the chords would be the same but the i-chord would be B minor. This gives us Bm7, C#m7b5, Dmaj7, Em7, F#m7, Gmaj7, A7.
However this doesn't have a strong resolution like in the relative major (D major), where the A7 leads nicely to D. The major keys naturally have a dominant chord as the fifth chord, which resolves nicely back to I. V7 to I. In D major it would be A7 back to D. A perfect cadence without altering any notes.

This is the shortcoming of minor keys - there's no natural perfect cadence, so it lead to the "invention" of harmonic minor and melodic minor a long time ago. They both have V7-chords leading us nicely to the minor i-chord, establishing our tonal center there and giving us all the "benefits" of a minor sound.

the School of Composition website explains it nicely here, for those interested in more information on the 3 minor modes and a bit of history:
https://www.schoolofcomposition.com/why-are...3-minor-scales/

______________________________________________________


QUOTE (ClaudioStrat @ Nov 26 2021, 01:39 AM) *
Hi Cael,

sorry little late on this. First let me say really nice work, the whole project is really good (made me think of some Ennio Morricone tunes) and your explanations are top.

I could not resist to give it a go, with a little melodic solo, a bit of D relative Minor and Pentatonic. Is a bit freestyle, probably get a little lost toward the end... tongue.gif

would love to know what you think?

anyways really good fun, thanks in advance

Best,
Claudio

Attached File  lonecowboy_solo_A_practice_MP3.mp3 ( 2.23MB ) Number of downloads: 21


Hey Claudio! It's awesome to hear you are participating as well. You are not late at all smile.gif I will record a video like I have for the others and give you my comments. I hope to have a video later today (or tonight - it's Friday morning here now) for you.

I'm glad you think the explanations are top and that you like the whole idea for the collaboration smile.gif

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 26 2021, 07:35 AM


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Jim S.
Nov 26 2021, 08:48 PM
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Lonesome Cowboy Chorus Take 1


Ive had so many different ideas and takes for this one but I wanted to show off the chords as much as possible. Going into harmonic minor is tough in 2 beats. My one thought was to start a ascending riffs from Bmin all the way through to the end but it just didn't have the quality.

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 26 2021, 11:44 PM
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Posts: 6.818
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 26 2021, 09:48 PM) *
Lonesome Cowboy Chorus Take 1


Ive had so many different ideas and takes for this one but I wanted to show off the chords as much as possible. Going into harmonic minor is tough in 2 beats. My one thought was to start a ascending riffs from Bmin all the way through to the end but it just didn't have the quality.


I haven't listened yet, but will do soon and give some better video comment. But you can think of playing B minor and do a run, but when it gets to the F#7 chord you can play A# instead of A. Just that one change of playing the fret above the A note. smile.gif

I just listened to the take and it works great already, but I will give some more comments soon smile.gif

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 28 2021, 10:28 AM
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Posts: 6.818
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (ClaudioStrat @ Nov 26 2021, 01:39 AM) *
Hi Cael,

sorry little late on this. First let me say really nice work, the whole project is really good (made me think of some Ennio Morricone tunes) and your explanations are top.

I could not resist to give it a go, with a little melodic solo, a bit of D relative Minor and Pentatonic. Is a bit freestyle, probably get a little lost toward the end... tongue.gif

would love to know what you think?

anyways really good fun, thanks in advance

Best,
Claudio

Attached File  lonecowboy_solo_A_practice_MP3.mp3 ( 2.23MB ) Number of downloads: 21


For Claudio



Sorry for the late reply. Weekend got a bit busy smile.gif Let me know what you think!

QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 26 2021, 09:48 PM) *
Lonesome Cowboy Chorus Take 1


Ive had so many different ideas and takes for this one but I wanted to show off the chords as much as possible. Going into harmonic minor is tough in 2 beats. My one thought was to start a ascending riffs from Bmin all the way through to the end but it just didn't have the quality.


For Jim S



Let me know what you think smile.gif

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 28 2021, 10:28 AM


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ClaudioStrat
Nov 28 2021, 12:57 PM
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Posts: 212
Joined: 1-October 20
From: uk
Thanks Carl, great suggestions and ideas. Already had a go at it!

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tflava
Nov 28 2021, 08:58 PM
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From: Den Helder (Holland)
Hé Ben,

Here is my take. i tried to polsih it some more.
Here is the preview:


I send you the mix, and guitar only with and without delay.
Hope you like it:)

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab_guitar_only_with_delay.wav ( 18.68MB ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab_guitar_only_without_delay.wav ( 18.68MB ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab.wav ( 19.78MB ) Number of downloads: 0


grtzz Tim

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Jim S.
Nov 28 2021, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 28 2021, 05:28 AM) *
For Claudio



Sorry for the late reply. Weekend got a bit busy smile.gif Let me know what you think!



For Jim S



Let me know what you think smile.gif


Man you do a nice job going through each part and it’s nice you’ve taken such time to do so. I 100% agreee with you about the phrases and put this in my practice routine until the deadline. When is it btw?

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This post has been edited by Jim S.: Nov 28 2021, 09:17 PM
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Caelumamittendum
Nov 28 2021, 09:29 PM
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Posts: 6.818
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (tflava @ Nov 28 2021, 09:58 PM) *
Hé Ben,

Here is my take. i tried to polsih it some more.
Here is the preview:


I send you the mix, and guitar only with and without delay.
Hope you like it:)

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab_guitar_only_with_delay.wav ( 18.68MB ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab_guitar_only_without_delay.wav ( 18.68MB ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  lonesome_cowboy_collab.wav ( 19.78MB ) Number of downloads: 0


grtzz Tim


This is AWESOME, Tim! I was listening and it put a huge smile on my face biggrin.gif Great playing! I think you have really polished it well, the timing is better, bends, more confidence in the lines and everything! Good job! smile.gif

Thanks for the files! cool.gif

QUOTE (Jim S. @ Nov 28 2021, 10:16 PM) *
Man you do a nice job going through each part and it’s nice you’ve taken such time to do so. I 100% agreee with you about the phrases and put this in my practice routine until the deadline. When is it btw?


It's my pleasure to do so smile.gif I enjoy doing it too because of the participation from all of you. I've been learning a lot too.

I'm not sure about a deadline. I haven't talked to Kris about this, but I don't think we're in a hurry.
I don't want people to feel pressured and having to hurry - I'd like to see people do this because they WANT to and because they might feel like they gain something from it. Tflava got the ball rolling with a "guitar only" file just before, which I think is the first one so far. No hurry though smile.gif From the usual time we spend on other collabs, maybe we let it run for a couple of more weeks? I'm just guessing. When I get some more "guitar only" files I'll start to put something together to see what we got.

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DeGroot
Nov 29 2021, 03:22 AM
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Joined: 16-January 12
From: Chicago, Illinois

I've recorded the counter-melody with a clean tone. Also have a bit of reverb added from the amp.
Let me know if this works? I can of course record to new suggestions as well! smile.gif


Attached File  counter_melody.mp3 ( 825.63K ) Number of downloads: 9

Attached File  counter_melody_no_backing.mp3 ( 825.63K ) Number of downloads: 3

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Caelumamittendum
Nov 29 2021, 08:33 AM
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Posts: 6.818
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From: Odense, Denmark
QUOTE (DeGroot @ Nov 29 2021, 04:22 AM) *
I've recorded the counter-melody with a clean tone. Also have a bit of reverb added from the amp.
Let me know if this works? I can of course record to new suggestions as well! smile.gif


Attached File  counter_melody.mp3 ( 825.63K ) Number of downloads: 9

Attached File  counter_melody_no_backing.mp3 ( 825.63K ) Number of downloads: 3


This is awesome, DeGroot! I think it will work really well! smile.gif

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MisterM
Nov 29 2021, 03:54 PM
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Tim, very nice melody !

I continue my work about my line.
I'm not ready to rec.

Soon I hope !


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tflava
Nov 29 2021, 04:16 PM
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From: Den Helder (Holland)
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 28 2021, 08:29 PM) *
This is AWESOME, Tim! I was listening and it put a huge smile on my face biggrin.gif Great playing! I think you have really polished it well, the timing is better, bends, more confidence in the lines and everything! Good job! smile.gif

Thanks for the files! cool.gif



Thanks a lot man. Im really curious how the collab evolve more. Its gonna be great man. Great lyrics also.

QUOTE (MisterM @ Nov 29 2021, 02:54 PM) *
Tim, very nice melody !

I continue my work about my line.
I'm not ready to rec.

Soon I hope !


Thanks manu.

Cant wait to hear how your take evolves. Its gonna be great i guess.

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Phil66
Nov 29 2021, 09:13 PM
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Building on my idea a little bit.



And an idea for the B section

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This post has been edited by Phil66: Nov 29 2021, 09:49 PM


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Caelumamittendum
Nov 30 2021, 11:15 AM
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Just wanted to let you know that I've not forgotten about you, Phil. I've replied in other threads, but I want to give you a good comment and maybe a short video. smile.gif

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Phil66
Nov 30 2021, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 30 2021, 10:15 AM) *
Just wanted to let you know that I've not forgotten about you, Phil. I've replied in other threads, but I want to give you a good comment and maybe a short video. smile.gif


No worries buddy, I'm only just getting back into things wink.gif

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Thanks.



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Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

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