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Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 10:23 AM

Hi Lester, do you agree about JN 6 as your REC take for this month?
Also, I wanna ask if you can record some backing track by yourself - even with just a rhythm guitar, no bass or drums are needed. If yes, we can work about improvisation using the modes you've learned on december. If you can't record a backing track by yourself I will provide some material, of course.

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 10:49 AM

Hi Jerry,

JN 6 is fine by me for this months REC, It's a challenge, but I think I can manage
I should be able to create my own backingtracks as well.
I have Cubase and EZdrummer, so no problemo.

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 03:24 PM

Sounds great. Can you create a backing track with a groove of your choice (jazz, funk, rock or whatever you like) with a background G7M chord? If yes, your first assignment is to try to improvise using all the boxes you learned from JN 3.
Remember that:
- on JN 3 you have different boxes starting from the same note, C.
- here you need to connect those boxes starting from a different note for each one. This means that you can improvise using all the boxes you have learned but... G Major/Ionian box starts from the 3rd fret, obviously. A dorian box starts from the 5th fret but you have all the notes to improvise over the G7M chord, yet.
- be careful while using the 4th degree of a Major/Ionian scale, it can be sound a little dissonant over a 7M chord. In this case, try to use the C note as a passing tone only.

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 05:55 PM

Ok, so G7M only, no modulations.
But can we use also the minor modes over a major chord? I think yes, but to make sure

And what do you exactly mean with the C as a passing note?

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 06:22 PM

If you play all the boxes in the right positions you will play this SET of notes G-A-B-C-D-E-F#.
G as root means G Major/Ionian, as you should know right now
Maybe to play an Am7 arpeggio/chord over a G7M chord is not the best choice... try to experiment.
You can use a C note while improvising over a G7M chord, using the G Major/Ionian scale. It's not forbidden by any law!
C as passing note means that you shouldn't play a C note as a quarter - or longer - note.. Usually a C note moves to the next B (major 3rd of G) or D (perfect 5th of G), very consonant notes with the G7M chord... Please spell the notes of G7M

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 07:27 PM

Ok, I get it.
I did know about the root and the set of notes.
I'm thinking: I don't have to use the G7M all the time for the backing, right?
I can create a progression like we did in the JN1 lesson, like G7M, Am7, Bm7, C7M, D7, Em7, f#7/5-, right?

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 07:44 PM

For the first assignment try to improvise over a G7M only! You can use all the neck and this means a lot of work, already.
You can upload a take of 30 - 40 seconds once you're satisfied.

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 07:57 PM

Allright then.
I'll get working on it!

BTW. was the board happy with the first MTP month? I really am, I feel I learned a lot from it allready, the only issue was getting started woth recording and such, but it's fixed now

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 08:29 PM

I didn't received any feedback but I guess everything is ok. It's great to hear that you've learned a lot

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 09:04 PM

I quess no news is good news
Anyways, I'll get working on the assignment, what is my deadline?

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 4 2010, 09:20 PM

Mmm... let's say January 9. If you can record a video it would be cool, so I can see how you play over different boxes.

Posted by: Lester Jan 4 2010, 09:35 PM

Sure, Will we done!

Posted by: Lester Jan 8 2010, 11:30 AM

Hi Jerry,

I was going through the theory of the jazz notes 6 lesson, but I don't fully understand this concept of II-V changes.
Actually this part:

I can see where we insert those changes, but why do we do this? and why specifically in these bars? (4th bar, 8th bar,9th & 10th bar, 12th bar)

And also when when finish the progression to the final version: why that way? maybe I don't need to know why, I don't know...maybe just because it sounds good....

One last thing: in the last bars you say that we have a classical turnaround, but what is that? never heard of that before.

Posted by: Lester Jan 8 2010, 12:18 PM

And another thing!

Can I add some notes which I think sound good?
I was using a passing notes in the Gmajor, 1 st position.
I think it sounds good, but I don't know it theoraticly, is that ok?

edit: this is about the improvising over the G7M chord, BTW.
Also, it should be an improvisation, not writing some solo?
Lik: it's something else everytime I play? or can I keep some ideas and licks?

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 8 2010, 02:47 PM

I don't understand what you're asking. THIS progression is based on "Bird's Blues"...
Pleas READ carefully the text.
I'm quoting here the first part, so you can understand the concept, starting from a simple Blues progression.

In this lesson we are going to take the blues and jazzify it! The blues has a very well known chord progression in the 12 bar blues we all know and love - here we will be giving this a jazzy twist to end up with something that has roots in the blues but sounds a lot more like Jazz.

There are many variations of the 12 bar blues form. Here we will be using a progression which is often called "Bird's Blues" because Charlie Parker - his nickname was "Bird" - used this progression over his "Blues for Alice" standard.

So, let's see the differences.

Here we have a standard 12 bar blues progression - it's in the key of F, using triads only. This is probably the simplest way to build something which sounds bluesy/rock'n'roll

The chords, bar by bar are:

F | % | % | % |
Bb | % | F | % |
C | Bb | F | % |

We can jazz this up a little immedately by using dominant 7 chords in place of the major chords, and we get:

F7 | (Bb7) | F7 | % |
Bb7 | % | F7 | % |
C7 | Bb7 | F7 | (C7) |

The chords shown in the text in brackets are extra chords we slipped in to keep things moving a little more.

Still not too jazzy, so lets add some extra changes in there, some II-V changes in fact. We then get:

F7 | Bb7 | F7 | Cm F7 |
Bb7 | Bb7 | F7 | Am D7 |
Gm | C7 | F7 | Gm C7 |

[...]




I wanna see you playing "inside", you have to learn all the boxes in the right way.
There will be more chances to play "outside", don't worry. You can record everything you want apart of this take, obviously
I can't really see if you're improvising or you have all things written down and maybe you're adding some mistakes here and there
Please, improvise as much as you can while recording this take. You don't need to upload a "fake" improvisation. If you're honest with yourself, we can see really what's happening!

Posted by: Lester Jan 8 2010, 03:19 PM

Ok, I'll play iside the boxes then.
What I meant with the rest of the questions i like a big "why?"

Imagine: I'm starting a composition and try to jazzify the blues...
so, what do I do?

We know that Charlie Parker made the chords dominant 7ths first, I can actually understand that, 7th chord sound jazzy, ok.
But then he uses some II-V changes.

And that's why I ask "why?" I would never think of that, why does this sound jazzy?

Maybe I'm trying to do too much, I don't know.

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 8 2010, 03:31 PM

F7 | Bb7 | F7 | Cm F7 |
Bb7 | Bb7 | F7 | Am D7 |
Gm | C7 | F7 | Gm C7 |

1st ii-V: Cm F7, it moves to Bb7 (already on the first blues progression). You can think about this like a ii-V in the key of Bb, but instead of B7M we have (find) Bb7, still a bluesy chord/sound.
2nd ii-V: Am D7, it moves to Gm.
A simple blues does not have all these chords, so this is the reason about the jazzy sound.
Hope things are more clear now

Posted by: Lester Jan 8 2010, 04:29 PM

yes, things are more clear now.
I'm sorry if I ask a lot of questions, I'm a bit slow to understand things.
and I did read the text well

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 8 2010, 06:28 PM

I'm glad if you read all the text(s) well
I don't think you're a bit slow to understand things. Sometimes we need to read a text different times to get the whole concept. If you have the chance to ask the author of the text, it's always better - GMC rules
Texts on the JN series are basically written by me while Andrew helps fixing my grammar and language errors and adding some extra info, if he need it. So, it's always good for me to review all the concepts. But not too often

Posted by: Lester Jan 9 2010, 10:27 PM

Hi jerry,

I was trying to make my backingtrack, but I didn't manage.
I started of with learning all the boxes fluently, didn't start with the backing track yet and now it turns out I don't know how to use ezdrummer.
I tried to import it in cubase, all the forums say I need to upload it in VST instrument, problem is: I can't find that option in my cubase (LE4)
Can you make me a drumtrack? then I'll try to upload my improv tommorow.

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 9 2010, 10:58 PM

Sure, I will do the backing in the next minutes. On the other side, I'm using EZdrummer too for my backing tracks. We can discuss your problems via PM if you still need some help in the future - let's keep this thread mainly around your progress!

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 9 2010, 11:50 PM

Here's the backing!

 G7M_backing___110bpm.mp3 ( 1.25MB ) : 221

Posted by: Lester Jan 17 2010, 05:01 PM

Hi Jerry,

At last it's finished, my improv in G7M:



There are a few sloppy runs here & there, but I'm not that experienced in improvising yet, so I left them in so it remains an improvisation

Cheers!
Lester

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 17 2010, 09:22 PM

Yeah, this is exactly what we needed!
Some opinions and considerations here and there...
- try to play more legato, at least sometimes
- this video shows that you know different boxes, and this was our main goal. Well done
- don't worry about "sloppy" playing here, this is a parameter which really means nothing, for this assignment.
- the next goal is to improvise connecting various "ideas". As "idea" I mean that if you play a lick in the middle of your solo, this lick should have a connection with the previous and the next one, if you know what I mean.
- you can steal "ideas" ( = licks ) from different players, as much as you can. It's a very important step while learning Jazz improvisation. Once you have memorized a lick, you can play more variations of it, adapting that lick in your current context. We'll see some specific exercises about this topic. In other words, you need to build your own vocabulary. Jazz is a language and you need to learn how to build phrases.

Ok, I will back to you with the next backing and assignment tonight!

Posted by: Lester Jan 18 2010, 12:02 AM

Allright! I'll think of legato.
I think I will like the "idea" thing more, then you can develop something. I'll try to steal something here & there.
Oh, you won't believe this: somebody actually rated my improv with 5 stars on youtube
Crazy!

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 18 2010, 12:09 AM

Don't know if he/she is crazy or not!
By the way, I don't have a YouTube account

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 18 2010, 02:03 AM

Here's the backing for the second assignement.

 A_Dorian_backing___110bpm.mp3 ( 1.2MB ) : 228


You should improvise using the same boxes but now you should think about A Dorian.
The backing has the same groove of the previous one, but the electric piano is doing a comping with Bm7 and Am7 chords... a very Dorian one
The Dorian mode is quite simple to use. There aren't any "avoid" notes. Have fun and if everything is ok with your gear, let's set a deadline on January 20. We are a bit late!

Posted by: Lester Jan 18 2010, 09:44 AM

allright. I'll try to make that deadline.
But, A Dorian is the same as the G Ionian I used last time, right?

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 18 2010, 10:11 AM

Yeah, they share the same set of notes but it's really important to underline some notes while playing G Ionian instead of A Dorian and viceversa.
You know, while you're improvising over a G7M chord, if you start/end your lick with a note of this chord (G-B-D-F#), it sounds good. To underline the Dorian sound you should play the notes of Am7 (A-C-E-G) plus the F# note which makes the difference between A Dorian and A Natural Minor/Aeolian.
Imagine a rock context with a simple A5 chord on the backing. What do you want to use to improvise over this chord? A Minor Pentatonic?? Naaaah... It still sounds good, I'm joking of course
BUT... you have many scales to use to improvise over an harmony which is built over only 2 notes (A-E), the A5 chord.
So, if you play notes from this sequence, A-B-C-D-E-F-G your solo will sound Aeolian.
If you play notes from A-B-C-D-E-F#-G your solo will sound Dorian. Pretty magic, don't you think?!?

Posted by: Lester Jan 18 2010, 09:12 PM

Magic indeed...I'm dazzling
So, actually it's just moving the root notes? I never thought of ending a lick with the notes of the chord, I just always made sure that I ended on the root note.

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 19 2010, 12:02 AM

There are different ways and solutions to improvise, of course. Don't think about rigid rules or even "play everything you want".
The point is to being aware of what you're playing. You can improvise using chord tones (notes from the current chord) or even with some passing notes (chromatics or not) or with tensions. As example, you can end your lick over a C7M chord with a D note. This D note will give you a C7M9 sound (here C7M9 is C-E-G-B-D, sometimes written Cmaj9).
Do you like the sound of C7M9? If yes, you can use this little trick instead of finish your lick with a C note...

Posted by: Lester Jan 19 2010, 08:10 AM

allright, I get it.
I'll just make some description of my solo explaining what I am doing. I think that's the best way to analyze the solo....
Thanks for the explanation!

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 19 2010, 09:14 AM

Yeah, if you have some time, try to do the same thing with some solos of other musicians. As example, what Miles played on So what at the beginning of his solo, is a must.

Posted by: Lester Jan 21 2010, 12:24 AM

Hi jerry,

my solo is done, it's still wednesday, but probably not anymore when I'm done writing this post...

Here it is:  A_dorian_solo.wma ( 3.38MB ) : 127


It's an audio file, I couldn't do video because my father needed his laptop wen I wanted to record, I use his for videos.

I included a word file, which explains the licks in the solo.

here it is:  modes_with_solo_Dorian.doc ( 38.5K ) : 190


Cheers!

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 21 2010, 10:55 AM

Ok, I liked the explanations on the Word file but I think you can do a better job with your recording.
I'm not sure about your timing with this take. Maybe it can be some latency problem with your gear. You know, you play and record something and when you play it from the beginning, your take is out of time with the backing. It happened to me in the past with some bad-old-integrated audio interfaces
Can you please write your licks using Guitar Pro, Tuxguitar, Power Tab or everything I can see?
In this way, it's not necessary to re-record your take. I need to understand the rhythm figures you want to use with your licks.
When you have some experience it's a good and funny game to play some notes before or after the beat, especially if you're playing with some other experienced musicians. For now, let's keep things simple

Next assignment!
Improvise using the B Phrygian scale.
The Phrygian mode, as you know, can sound good over the chord built on the 3rd degree of a major scale.
But... with the first backing you can experiment a little and you will hear how the minor 6th of B (G note) sound a little dissonant over the Bm7 chord. This backing is made to show you the modal sound of the chord+scale.
If you have a Bm7 chord in a tonal context, as example G7M | Am7 | Bm7 | D7, you can think "G Major scale" all the time or even a mode for each chord. But if you use a G over the Bm7 chord, this is usually a passing note.

On the second backing you can play with more freedom. Instead of Bm7, I used a Bsusb9 chord (Guitar Pro calls this B7sus4add9-) built from B-E-F#-A-C. E is the sus4, while C is the b9 or 9-. Please check the difference about the length of B7sus4add9- string and Bsusb9
This is a chord where the Phrygian scale can played without problems. If you can grab a keyboard or a piano I really suggest to you to experiment a little, playing triads and other more complex chords. It really helps to understand the harmony since you can "see" the notes with some order. Playing chords on guitar can be confusing sometimes because, as guitarists, we play some voicings which are comfortable over the neck, but it's pretty hard to understand what is going on at the beginning!

 B_Phrygian_backing__C7M___Bm7_.mp3 ( 1.2MB ) : 190


 B_Phrygian_backing__C7M___Bsusb9_.mp3 ( 1.2MB ) : 191

Posted by: Lester Jan 21 2010, 03:03 PM

Allright, I have a keyboard, so I'll try and see what it's like on the keyboard.
About the timing: it can be that the timing is a bit strange.... It's because I came up with licks without listening to the backingtrack. when I tried to play them over the backing I had to adjust the timing a lot...
I'll use the backing from the beginging next time. Actually. I wasn't too happy with it myself either

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 21 2010, 09:19 PM

Ok about the backing tracks!
Let me know how things are going with the REC since we are near the end of month.

Posted by: Lester Jan 21 2010, 10:38 PM

Yeah, I really hope I will make it, (means pass on the REC), I find this piece pretty hard...
But I'm doing my best ofourse

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 21 2010, 10:49 PM

Ok, we should set a deadline for the Phrygian impro. What about January 24?

Posted by: Lester Jan 21 2010, 11:19 PM

The 24th will be hard. I can't do anything at all this weekend... because of concerts, reharshalls and more reharshalls..

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 21 2010, 11:54 PM

Ok, no problem. I will wait for your take, anyway.
Remember that this is the 3rd assignment and you need to complete 4 assignments + the REC to keep yourself on the MTP!

Posted by: Lester Jan 22 2010, 12:34 AM

I know! don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying all this and I'm doing pretty much everything I can to complete my assignments...so will I this time

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 22 2010, 12:56 AM

Ok, keep me updated!

Posted by: Lester Jan 29 2010, 12:11 PM

Hi Jerry,

Here's an unpleasant announcement: I will quit the MTP for guitar....
I can't combine it anymore with schoolwork at the moment and it just takes it's toll on my prestations at school. Also I have little time left for my band, which isn't a good thing.
I do want to continue with the vocal MTP, it takes less time and I feel like I really need that atm.

I really wanted to continue the MTP, but I need to slow down. good thing is: I got loads of inspiration on new area's I can work on: jazz series, modes, identifying solo's for example.... it really did help me!

I want to thank you for the patience with me and all the help, it was a very good experience!

Lester

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 29 2010, 03:54 PM

Ok, there are no problems on my side about this matter. Each MTP requires some effort to apply.
I'm leaving this thread open so you can finish your assigments before to join another guitar MTP. At least, if I remember right, these are the current rules about the whole MTP.

Posted by: Lester Jan 30 2010, 12:21 AM

Ok, I don't plan on joining another one anytime soon, but I'll see about it.

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Jan 30 2010, 12:29 AM

Ok, I will check your vocal MTP in the next days since I know that Luciana knows her job very well!