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Adam
post Jun 19 2019, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 19 2019, 01:32 AM) *
Cool amp!!!! That's the BIG IRON!

Todd

I like Mesa's design but ENGL's are imho better. I've only tried ENGL's Invader and that was a love at first strum. Mesa's Recto, not so much but I wouldn't mind one if I found a nice bargain.

About the reverbs, I think good old spring unit beats the crap of the multifx emulation but high-quality DAWs probably have high-quality reverbs. I hear Mooer or Joyo has a nice counterpart for Boss' RV-6, so that could be worth checking.


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Mertay
post Jun 19 2019, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 19 2019, 05:07 PM) *
I like Mesa's design but ENGL's are imho better. I've only tried ENGL's Invader and that was a love at first strum. Mesa's Recto, not so much but I wouldn't mind one if I found a nice bargain.

About the reverbs, I think good old spring unit beats the crap of the multifx emulation but high-quality DAWs probably have high-quality reverbs. I hear Mooer or Joyo has a nice counterpart for Boss' RV-6, so that could be worth checking.


With a recto, I like it when the volume is really high as then as if a second amp tone starts to blend in (poweramp tone) but its not so versatile. Mesa Mark V is an amp I could play anytime due to 1-2 of my friends having them but to be honest never really liked them despite the popularity. Cleans are nice but next to a Fender they're a bit sterile, drive probably I'd pick a different cab. than whats regularly inluded, distortion is fuzzy and never tested pedals to see how much I can tame it...simply too much work to set it up biggrin.gif

But the ENGL is really something else, can go super loud but doesn't have to be to get convincing Plexi/silver jubilee tones. Cleans are magical yet can drive as much as Yngwie tones...what shocked me most was the lack of knobs and variety when I first tried it. My second shock was when noticing the headroom, actually struggled a bit cause I am so used to other solutions.

Good reverbs require too much DSP power (probably as much as an amp sim. itself) so its usually the softspot of multi-fx units. Cheap stuff are more delay based, meaning the reflections are very few so sounds thin and works best only if added very little to the tone. I like some Chinese brand solutions, specially drive pedals but for such pedal looking at USA priced probably not going lesser for 100 dolar new is a good lowest but safe limit.


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Adam
post Jun 19 2019, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 19 2019, 06:39 PM) *
With a recto, I like it when the volume is really high as then as if a second amp tone starts to blend in (poweramp tone) but its not so versatile. Mesa Mark V is an amp I could play anytime due to 1-2 of my friends having them but to be honest never really liked them despite the popularity. Cleans are nice but next to a Fender they're a bit sterile, drive probably I'd pick a different cab. than whats regularly inluded, distortion is fuzzy and never tested pedals to see how much I can tame it...simply too much work to set it up biggrin.gif

But the ENGL is really something else, can go super loud but doesn't have to be to get convincing Plexi/silver jubilee tones. Cleans are magical yet can drive as much as Yngwie tones...what shocked me most was the lack of knobs and variety when I first tried it. My second shock was when noticing the headroom, actually struggled a bit cause I am so used to other solutions.

Good reverbs require too much DSP power (probably as much as an amp sim. itself) so its usually the softspot of multi-fx units. Cheap stuff are more delay based, meaning the reflections are very few so sounds thin and works best only if added very little to the tone. I like some Chinese brand solutions, specially drive pedals but for such pedal looking at USA priced probably not going lesser for 100 dolar new is a good lowest but safe limit.

Personally, I love the "sterileness" of Mesa clean, even more when paired with passive EMGs and vice versa: Fender's, Marshall's or Peavey's clean is too organic for my tastes.

Back to multi-distortion pedals, I did a little research and OD-20, EQ-20 and such are available in great numbers in my country used at quite low price, so correct me if I'm wrong but it must mean there's something wrong with them. It's the same for any piece of rig or other machines. Maybe that's why Boss developed another series hoping to make a better line of multifx that people actually don't re-sell after a month.


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Mertay
post Jun 19 2019, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 19 2019, 07:00 PM) *
Back to multi-distortion pedals, I did a little research and OD-20, EQ-20 and such are available in great numbers in my country used at quite low price, so correct me if I'm wrong but it must mean there's something wrong with them. It's the same for any piece of rig or other machines. Maybe that's why Boss developed another series hoping to make a better line of multifx that people actually don't re-sell after a month.


Yeah, those stuff needs some amp breakup to sound half-decent. Can be cool as boosts (I really liked some of the OD's in my gt1 I sold a while ago) too but not really for the clean channel, even Helix owners complain on the high-gain pedals. Most are emulations of classic pedals anyway which were designed to work with some amp breakup going on.

I'd also assume if used with a processor or a digital amp they would suck. Even with the Katana my experience is digital drive solutions really shows itself. So I think thats why Boss's 200 series will be hybrid designed, using some analog stages to get a better tone (like strymon did).

I can recommend the Boss DA2 though, works great with fender-ish tones on the clean channel. Not super highgain but not low either, they're discontinued so could be found for a decent price on the used market.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 20 2019, 07:10 AM
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Took my ampero in to my local guitar shop (turned off cab sim) hooked up to an old yamaha power amp to a mesa cab with one of my high gain patches. Sounded amazing. Tried the mesa Mark V. Sounded mean, but not as articulated. Notes kept getting lost in the gain, even when it wasn't that high. Then tried my clean patch on the ampero based on a roughly on a fender twin nofx, same power amp, sounded full. Tried the Mesa and could not get it to sound warm at all. As if the clean was an after thought on the mesa. Sounded like the drive channel with the drive turned off. I didn't bring the 11 rack as it's just to big to carry around. The Ampero is great for bringing to stores and testing gear with just because it's so darn small. I'm using my own patches of course so I know how they should sound. So If I put a guitar in to it, and it sounds a bit crap, pretty sure that's not the guitar for me. I've put strats, ibbys, LTD, Bc Rich, etc through it at home and they all sound nice. So if I plug in a guitar and it's awful. I know not to get it. I"m using a small 5 watt head on a 4x12 mostly and sometimes a 300 watt rocktron rack amp. Basic randal 4x12. It gives a decent baseline for comparison. But tone is very individual, some folks love sterile tones some love organic.
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Mertay
post Jun 20 2019, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 20 2019, 06:10 AM) *
Took my ampero in to my local guitar shop (turned off cab sim) hooked up to an old yamaha power amp to a mesa cab with one of my high gain patches. Sounded amazing. Tried the mesa Mark V. Sounded mean, but not as articulated. Notes kept getting lost in the gain, even when it wasn't that high. Then tried my clean patch on the ampero based on a roughly on a fender twin nofx, same power amp, sounded full. Tried the Mesa and could not get it to sound warm at all. As if the clean was an after thought on the mesa. Sounded like the drive channel with the drive turned off. I didn't bring the 11 rack as it's just to big to carry around. The Ampero is great for bringing to stores and testing gear with just because it's so darn small. I'm using my own patches of course so I know how they should sound. So If I put a guitar in to it, and it sounds a bit crap, pretty sure that's not the guitar for me. I've put strats, ibbys, LTD, Bc Rich, etc through it at home and they all sound nice. So if I plug in a guitar and it's awful. I know not to get it. I"m using a small 5 watt head on a 4x12 mostly and sometimes a 300 watt rocktron rack amp. Basic randal 4x12. It gives a decent baseline for comparison. But tone is very individual, some folks love sterile tones some love organic.


Though more obvious with plug-ins, poweramp sim. are getting better and better on digital. Considering the coloration of the Yamaha poweramp, this (in theory with Hotone, was possible with boss gt-1) can be achieved by increasing the (software) amps output but decreasing the output of the processor (post amp digitally or by processor main output).

I did recordings to try this out with the gt-1, differences weren't subtle. But driving the poweramp doesn't always sound better with high-gain tones as it can muddy-up the tone too so testing by recording will be a huge advantage.



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Mertay
post Jun 22 2019, 08:41 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 22 2019, 07:01 PM
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I hope these show up in guitar center. I'd love to try them. I'd get a strymon as ken said if I wanted to buy a pedal, just not in the market. Still I end up wiith pedals all the time even though I don't need them smile.gif
Recently bought two guitars, gus g, and mocking bird, lasted about 2 weeks then back on the block. Was fun to try them though smile.gif Made the gabe collab vid with the gus..
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 22 2019, 03:41 AM) *
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Mertay
post Jun 23 2019, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 22 2019, 06:01 PM) *
I hope these show up in guitar center. I'd love to try them. I'd get a strymon as ken said if I wanted to buy a pedal, just not in the market.


Which delay pedal would you choose for your shred style specific? If I didn't have processor delay option, this would be a very hard choice.

Boss terra turned out to be a very unexpected preference for me; Its dual delay (super important if no reverb prefered, Vai style sound), wide stereo, tails fill the background nicely, easy to find used...that modulation effect doesn't trigger with shred type distortion, which is a big plus for me biggrin.gif

There are few delays I really like but cause of the dual thing I like, things can get really expensive with imagination biggrin.gif


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Adam
post Jun 25 2019, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 23 2019, 11:30 AM) *
Which delay pedal would you choose for your shred style specific? If I didn't have processor delay option, this would be a very hard choice.

Boss terra turned out to be a very unexpected preference for me; Its dual delay (super important if no reverb prefered, Vai style sound), wide stereo, tails fill the background nicely, easy to find used...that modulation effect doesn't trigger with shred type distortion, which is a big plus for me biggrin.gif

There are few delays I really like but cause of the dual thing I like, things can get really expensive with imagination biggrin.gif

I'm happy with my DD-7. It covers a whole lotta ground with its options which makes it really versatile but I use one setting since the purchase. It's my god-tier delay and it's as digital as the modelling units, so it's probably on par Kempers, racks etc. At the end of the day, there's a limit to customization and no price tag will ever get around it, so just go for one you like and enjoy it smile.gif


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Mertay
post Jun 25 2019, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 25 2019, 11:44 AM) *
I'm happy with my DD-7. It covers a whole lotta ground with its options which makes it really versatile but I use one setting since the purchase. It's my god-tier delay and it's as digital as the modelling units, so it's probably on par Kempers, racks etc. At the end of the day, there's a limit to customization and no price tag will ever get around it, so just go for one you like and enjoy it smile.gif


Remember cause of parallel routing pedals of then sound better (as in clarity) even than the most expensive processors.


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