Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Jcm800 In A Box

Posted by: SeeJay May 4 2014, 11:56 PM

I'm looking for a cool, high gain marshall kind of sound in a pedal. What do we like?

Here's what I don't care about, PODS or other digital modelers. I've got some great plugins and programs. I'm looking for a good ol fashioned dirt box.

Also, please avoid the "You can't get a marshall sound without buying a marshall". Ok, cool, I agree somewhat, that's why I have a Marshall.

I've had a Z. Vex Box of Rock. And it's cool. Definitely do some Randy Rhodes kinda things.

Lovepedal makes good stuff

Posted by: klasaine May 5 2014, 12:31 AM

A lot of companies make decent Marshall style drive pedals. The one mentioned above is the late 60s early 70s plexi tone.
Catalinbread 'dirty little secret' (DLS) is also really nice.
MI Audio 'crunch box' and Zvex BOR are also faves of many players.


*A hot rodded JCM 800 tone is a very different thing. Van Halen I and II comes to my mind.
This just came out. The company did a kickstarter campaign and I pre-ordered one. I got it in March.
Texas Harmonic 'Hot Mod 800' - modded JCM 800 style pedal. LOTS of gain! (probably too much for 'me' live).
http://www.texasharmonic.com/

Chords and riffs:
I turn the guitar's volume down at three spots in the track until it's basically 'clean'.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/texas-harmonic-hot-mod-800

Lead:
Strat with an SD little 59 in the bridge. I switch to the neck pickup of the strat at two points (it's pretty obvious). I hold a lot of notes to see how it feeds back and cut off quick to see how quiet it is.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/hotmod-800-lead

Hand held Tascam DR-07 recorder in the room.

Posted by: Darius Wave May 5 2014, 02:23 PM

Plexi tone was probably the one I liked most. Pretty unusual dynamics range for a stomp drive. I would go for the older , bigger version

http://carlmartin.pl/carl-martin-plexi-tone-p-48.html

Posted by: SeeJay May 5 2014, 05:55 PM

Those Carl Martin pedals can be pretty large. huh.gif huh.gif But Im diggin on this.

When you say "unusual Dynamics range" could you describe what you're talking about?

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 5 2014, 01:23 PM) *
Plexi tone was probably the one I liked most. Pretty unusual dynamics range for a stomp drive. I would go for the older , bigger version

http://carlmartin.pl/carl-martin-plexi-tone-p-48.html


Posted by: Todd Simpson May 5 2014, 05:56 PM

Some great suggestions so far!!! I"m liking the combo of my TUBE DRIVE with the SUPER METAL DRIVE 2 (fuhrmann, brazillian boutique stuff). Together, they offer enough tonal options and knobs to make it like tweaking a nice tube amp.

make sure to do some recordings/videos once you get something as folks are always looking for good plexi tones it seems smile.gif



QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 4 2014, 06:56 PM) *
I'm looking for a cool, high gain marshall kind of sound in a pedal. What do we like?

Here's what I don't care about, PODS or other digital modelers. I've got some great plugins and programs. I'm looking for a good ol fashioned dirt box.

Also, please avoid the "You can't get a marshall sound without buying a marshall". Ok, cool, I agree somewhat, that's why I have a Marshall.

I've had a Z. Vex Box of Rock. And it's cool. Definitely do some Randy Rhodes kinda things.

Lovepedal makes good stuff

Posted by: SeeJay May 5 2014, 05:57 PM

Oh man! I saw a clip of the texas Harmonic pedal a while back when they were doing the kickstarter, but forgot about it. SUPER rad.

How's the low end on it? I am cautious of just a fizzy sound with no bottom.

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 4 2014, 11:31 PM) *
A lot of companies make decent Marshall style drive pedals. The one mentioned above is the late 60s early 70s plexi tone.
Catalinbread 'dirty little secret' (DLS) is also really nice.
MI Audio 'crunch box' and Zvex BOR are also faves of many players.


*A hot rodded JCM 800 tone is a very different thing. Van Halen I and II comes to my mind.
This just came out. The company did a kickstarter campaign and I pre-ordered one. I got it in March.
Texas Harmonic 'Hot Mod 800' - modded JCM 800 style pedal. LOTS of gain! (probably too much for 'me' live).
http://www.texasharmonic.com/

Chords and riffs:
I turn the guitar's volume down at three spots in the track until it's basically 'clean'.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/texas-harmonic-hot-mod-800

Lead:
Strat with an SD little 59 in the bridge. I switch to the neck pickup of the strat at two points (it's pretty obvious). I hold a lot of notes to see how it feeds back and cut off quick to see how quiet it is.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/hotmod-800-lead

Hand held Tascam DR-07 recorder in the room.


Posted by: klasaine May 6 2014, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 5 2014, 09:57 AM) *
Oh man! I saw a clip of the texas Harmonic pedal a while back when they were doing the kickstarter, but forgot about it. SUPER rad.

How's the low end on it? I am cautious of just a fizzy sound with no bottom.


I would say that the low end is not over-hyped. How does it sound on the clips? That's what it sounds like in the room when I play. When I do clips like that I use a hand held condenser in the middle of a room.
To me it does sound like a modded JCM-800 which, in actuality, is too much gain for me 'live' (the pedal as well as the actual modded JCM-800 amps). As I mentioned, this pedal has probably too much gain for me 'live'.
*This is why I use a Plexi clone for live, loud R&R (sessions - another story, that's why I like it).

*In the title of the thread you ask about JCM-800 'high-gain' tone. The Texas Harmonic pedal is that in spades, so is an original style RAT ... but it's not a Plexi sound (check out my clips in Todds thread: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=51989 post #7 ... that's a Plexi.

For a plex in a box my favorite is the Catalinbread 'dirty little secret' v.1. There are 3 or 4 versions of that pedal now. I feel v.1 is the closest to the real thing ... which is not a ton of gain. The subsequent versions have more gain and IMO slightly different (fixed) EQ ... and sound less like an actual Marshall Plexiglass front amp.

Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 6 2014, 08:17 PM

My current fave is the MI Audio Super Crunch Box, which I was lucky enough to review for MI Audio recently. Please click here for the review and tone clips: http://sixstringsamurai.co.nz/2014/03/23/review-mi-audio-super-crunch-box-from-plexi-to-pure-mayhem/

It goes well beyond the original Crunch Box, which I always thought was kinda meh anyway. This pedal goes from light gain to hotrod heaven and a lot of things between - covering the spectrum from Plexi style to Jose mod 800 in the flip of a switch. AND it's much more affordable than many boutique MIAB pedals which arguably don't do as much or sound as good.


Posted by: SeeJay May 7 2014, 12:23 AM

Sooo. . . you're saying you would sell me the texas harmonic pedal for cheap. . . wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 6 2014, 03:32 PM) *
I would say that the low end is not over-hyped. How does it sound on the clips? That's what it sounds like in the room when I play. When I do clips like that I use a hand held condenser in the middle of a room.
To me it does sound like a modded JCM-800 which, in actuality, is too much gain for me 'live' (the pedal as well as the actual modded JCM-800 amps). As I mentioned, this pedal has probably too much gain for me 'live'.
*This is why I use a Plexi clone for live, loud R&R (sessions - another story, that's why I like it).

*In the title of the thread you ask about JCM-800 'high-gain' tone. The Texas Harmonic pedal is that in spades, so is an original style RAT ... but it's not a Plexi sound (check out my clips in Todds thread: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=51989 post #7 ... that's a Plexi.

For a plex in a box my favorite is the Catalinbread 'dirty little secret' v.1. There are 3 or 4 versions of that pedal now. I feel v.1 is the closest to the real thing ... which is not a ton of gain. The subsequent versions have more gain and IMO slightly different (fixed) EQ ... and sound less like an actual Marshall Plexiglass front amp.



Pretty cool. Kinda has a TS feel in the mid ya think? I would be surprised if it was just a TS thats hot rodded. (which isn't a bad thing)

QUOTE (SixStringSamurai @ May 6 2014, 07:17 PM) *
My current fave is the MI Audio Super Crunch Box, which I was lucky enough to review for MI Audio recently. Please click here for the review and tone clips: http://sixstringsamurai.co.nz/2014/03/23/review-mi-audio-super-crunch-box-from-plexi-to-pure-mayhem/

It goes well beyond the original Crunch Box, which I always thought was kinda meh anyway. This pedal goes from light gain to hotrod heaven and a lot of things between - covering the spectrum from Plexi style to Jose mod 800 in the flip of a switch. AND it's much more affordable than many boutique MIAB pedals which arguably don't do as much or sound as good.



Posted by: klasaine May 7 2014, 02:00 AM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 6 2014, 04:23 PM) *
Sooo. . . you're saying you would sell me the texas harmonic pedal for cheap. . . wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif


I might at some point (seriously). I want to use it on some recordings and see if it's massive amount of gain is too much in that context.

*A modded RAT may be what you need - ?
Speakers and cabs are such a huge component of the Marshall sound.

Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 7 2014, 03:02 AM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 6 2014, 11:23 PM) *
Pretty cool. Kinda has a TS feel in the mid ya think? I would be surprised if it was just a TS thats hot rodded. (which isn't a bad thing)


Definitely not just a Tubescreamer variant. Completely different animal.

Posted by: Darius Wave May 7 2014, 09:45 AM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 5 2014, 05:55 PM) *
Those Carl Martin pedals can be pretty large. huh.gif huh.gif But Im diggin on this.

When you say "unusual Dynamics range" could you describe what you're talking about?


More treble when volume roll off. Less "chewing gum" when You play soft on full gain ...I mean...it reacts like a real amp. Crunch box is nice and warm but for me it lacks that "bite" which Plexitone has.

Posted by: SeeJay May 7 2014, 03:12 PM

Totally, it's that reactionary thing that makes something really feel like an amp.

I'll keep hunting around. Anyone else know of a cool Marshall pedal?

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 7 2014, 08:45 AM) *
More treble when volume roll off. Less "chewing gum" when You play soft on full gain ...I mean...it reacts like a real amp. Crunch box is nice and warm but for me it lacks that "bite" which Plexitone has.


Posted by: klasaine May 7 2014, 03:20 PM

Barber 'Direct Drive'.
http://www.barberelectronics.com/compactDD.html

Xotic 'SL drive'
http://xotic.us/effects/sl_drive/

*Both of these are in the lower gain (vintage?) camp. Lower gain as in lower than that Hotmod 800 I demo'd. Still plenty of gain IMO.

Posted by: klasaine May 8 2014, 02:46 AM

Quick clip of three more: Catalinbread 'DLS' v.1 > Barber 'Direct Drive' > Mooer 'Black Secret'.

All three are on their respective 'high-gain' settings.
Guitar is an '87 AS Strat with an SD 'little 59' in the bridge. I only use the bridge pkup.
Amp is a Dr. Z 'Ghia' into a Boogie open-back single 12" cab.
Hand held mic/rec in room (Tascam DR-07).

https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/dr000122

1) clean Strat, SD little 59 in bridge position
2) Catalinbread 'DLS' v.1 ( Rawk setting)
3) Barber 'Direct Drive' (high gain setting)
4) Mooer 'Black Secret' (turbo setting - turbo RAT)


Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 8 2014, 04:51 AM

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 7 2014, 08:45 AM) *
More treble when volume roll off. Less "chewing gum" when You play soft on full gain ...I mean...it reacts like a real amp. Crunch box is nice and warm but for me it lacks that "bite" which Plexitone has.


The Super Crunch Box is a completely different animal compared to the original. I agree, I never thought the Crunch Box was that great personally, but the SCB is head and shoulders above it, especially in terms of getting more Plexi and "amp-like" tones.

Posted by: Darius Wave May 8 2014, 03:40 PM

You're might be true I think - I've played Crunch Box only 2 times and both was exactly the same model

Posted by: SeeJay May 8 2014, 11:33 PM

After searching the internets, it looks like its based on the Marshall Guv'nor pedal.

Interesting

QUOTE (SixStringSamurai @ May 7 2014, 02:02 AM) *
Definitely not just a Tubescreamer variant. Completely different animal.



NICE! I dig that Barber. Caitlinbread is a company I like as well.

Thanks so much for the post

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 8 2014, 01:46 AM) *
Quick clip of three more: Catalinbread 'DLS' v.1 > Barber 'Direct Drive' > Mooer 'Black Secret'.

All three are on their respective 'high-gain' settings.
Guitar is an '87 AS Strat with an SD 'little 59' in the bridge. I only use the bridge pkup.
Amp is a Dr. Z 'Ghia' into a Boogie open-back single 12" cab.
Hand held mic/rec in room (Tascam DR-07).

https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/dr000122

1) clean Strat, SD little 59 in bridge position
2) Catalinbread 'DLS' v.1 ( Rawk setting)
3) Barber 'Direct Drive' (high gain setting)
4) Mooer 'Black Secret' (turbo setting - turbo RAT)



Posted by: klasaine May 9 2014, 03:47 AM

All three IMO are really great. I use them all. I will usually have two of the three on a board. Right now (for that type of music) I'm using the Barber DD and the Mooer Black Secret.

The DLS has the most low end - balls.
The DD has the most complex mid-range and 'natural' string response (if I had to pick one this would probably be it).
The Black Secret has a bit of the modern slice on top and the least 'extra' bass. Cuts really well.

All 3 work great in a band context. No disappearing.

*I've had every era RAT including a 1985 (in 1985) whiteface and two more recent 'modded' RATS.
The Mooer sounds as good or better than all of them. And I'm not the only one saying that. I just hope it lasts because I've been stepping on that thing a lot lately. I probably should just get a spare.

Posted by: SeeJay May 9 2014, 11:37 PM

That Mooer stuff looks rad. I got a buddy who keeps saying "they're cheap pieces of S*&#". But most of them I have tried actually sound great. Haven't heard many complaints about the quality of the hardware yet, so I assume it holds up.

Hadn't tried the black secret though.

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 9 2014, 02:47 AM) *
All three IMO are really great. I use them all. I will usually have two of the three on a board. Right now (for that type of music) I'm using the Barber DD and the Mooer Black Secret.

The DLS has the most low end - balls.
The DD has the most complex mid-range and 'natural' string response (if I had to pick one this would probably be it).
The Black Secret has a bit of the modern slice on top and the least 'extra' bass. Cuts really well.

All 3 work great in a band context. No disappearing.

*I've had every era RAT including a 1985 (in 1985) whiteface and two more recent 'modded' RATS.
The Mooer sounds as good or better than all of them. And I'm not the only one saying that. I just hope it lasts because I've been stepping on that thing a lot lately. I probably should just get a spare.


Posted by: Todd Simpson May 11 2014, 04:11 AM

Sadly, I fear you buddy may be a boutique pedal snob sad.gif It's ok though, it takes all kinds smile.gif Nothing against him personally, and no offense intended.

As for the MOOER pedals, I"ve owned the tube screamer knock off and it was quite good. Sounded better than my original screamer for certain. And it was nice and small, not taking over the pedal board, and it was cheap, and it was built like a tank!!! I've tried other pedals of theirs at shops and they hold their own with pedals that cost 5 times as much.

Most folks that diss JOYO/MOOER, couldn't tell the difference if they had to blind test them against snooty pedals. I'm all for snooty pedals and such, I own an import/boutique pedal board with all hand made pedals. But I also appreciate the value of cheap pedals and I've owned wads of them.



QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 9 2014, 06:37 PM) *
That Mooer stuff looks rad. I got a buddy who keeps saying "they're cheap pieces of S*&#". But most of them I have tried actually sound great. Haven't heard many complaints about the quality of the hardware yet, so I assume it holds up.

Hadn't tried the black secret though.


Posted by: SeeJay May 11 2014, 04:58 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 11 2014, 03:11 AM) *
Sadly, I fear you buddy may be a boutique pedal snob sad.gif It's ok though, it takes all kinds smile.gif Nothing against him personally, and no offense intended.

As for the MOOER pedals, I"ve owned the tube screamer knock off and it was quite good. Sounded better than my original screamer for certain. And it was nice and small, not taking over the pedal board, and it was cheap, and it was built like a tank!!! I've tried other pedals of theirs at shops and they hold their own with pedals that cost 5 times as much.

Most folks that diss JOYO/MOOER, couldn't tell the difference if they had to blind test them against snooty pedals. I'm all for snooty pedals and such, I own an import/boutique pedal board with all hand made pedals. But I also appreciate the value of cheap pedals and I've owned wads of them.



Oh, he is. HA!

I think the difference can really be the quality of the hardware. If it's a great sounding pedal, Im all for it. (i got a dan electro Fab tone from back in the day that I think is still SUPER rad, and I think wasn't too pricey. Even some of the BOSS OD stuff is great!!!) but if it falls apart quickly, it's not worth a damn.

Though, I've seen A LOT of tube screamers fall apart.

JOYO though, I don't know. . .looks cheap. wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

Posted by: klasaine May 11 2014, 06:49 AM

Of the 'little' guys, the Xotic minis are by far the most robust.
I regularly use an SP comp, EP booster and an SL drive live.
I've also used a mini Malekko trem on and off (pun intended) for a few years.
No mechanical issues with any of those.

The Mooer does 'seem' less rugged. Though I've been stepping on the Black Secret and a Rumble Drive quite a bit in the last several months and so far - no issues. I know a few other guys who use them regularly and none of them has mentioned anything yet (about them breaking).

As far as how the Mooer's sound? They get an A+ for me (and I have my moments of gear snobbery). Of the five I've tried (and 4 that I still own) only one I think is not so great - the Shim Verb. It's noisy and the reverb tail has way too many VERY noticeable artifacts. But whatever - every brand makes something I think sucks.
Another good Mooer pedal is their Phase 90 knockoff -'Orange 90' phaser ... KILLER! And absolutely the real deal sound wise.

*I only have one JOYO - an 'American Sound'. I haven't used it 'out' yet. I kinda just bought it for the name - American Sound. It was $37.88 shipped. Couldn't resist. It sounds good. Definitely a bit of every era Fender tones in there.

Posted by: SeeJay May 11 2014, 11:40 PM

That ana echo looks rad. I currently have a lovepedal mini delay I use for just a slapback. It's great, but to be able to have ALL the controls up top would be great.



QUOTE (klasaine @ May 11 2014, 05:49 AM) *
Of the 'little' guys, the Xotic minis are by far the most robust.
I regularly use an SP comp, EP booster and an SL drive live.
I've also used a mini Malekko trem on and off (pun intended) for a few years.
No mechanical issues with any of those.

The Mooer does 'seem' less rugged. Though I've been stepping on the Black Secret and a Rumble Drive quite a bit in the last several months and so far - no issues. I know a few other guys who use them regularly and none of them has mentioned anything yet (about them breaking).

As far as how the Mooer's sound? They get an A+ for me (and I have my moments of gear snobbery). Of the five I've tried (and 4 that I still own) only one I think is not so great - the Shim Verb. It's noisy and the reverb tail has way too many VERY noticeable artifacts. But whatever - every brand makes something I think sucks.
Another good Mooer pedal is their Phase 90 knockoff -'Orange 90' phaser ... KILLER! And absolutely the real deal sound wise.

*I only have one JOYO - an 'American Sound'. I haven't used it 'out' yet. I kinda just bought it for the name - American Sound. It was $37.88 shipped. Couldn't resist. It sounds good. Definitely a bit of every era Fender tones in there.


Posted by: Todd Simpson May 14 2014, 12:09 AM

The joyo tube screamer clone that I owned was built like a tank. All metal housing, same pro stomp switch as the boutique pedals I've got now. They are really tough pedals and sound good and are crazy cheap. At one point I had nearly a doze overdrive pedals as I was trying to find the one I liked best. I settled on the PRO TONE for a while until I got the 11 of course smile.gif I eventually gave away or sold all of my overdrives!

At that point I realized that I still needed one for use with OVERLOUD. So I heard the demo on youtube from MARCOS playing the fuhrmann screamer clone and I was sold smile.gif



QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 10 2014, 11:58 PM) *
Oh, he is. HA!

I think the difference can really be the quality of the hardware. If it's a great sounding pedal, Im all for it. (i got a dan electro Fab tone from back in the day that I think is still SUPER rad, and I think wasn't too pricey. Even some of the BOSS OD stuff is great!!!) but if it falls apart quickly, it's not worth a damn.

Though, I've seen A LOT of tube screamers fall apart.

JOYO though, I don't know. . .looks cheap. wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

Posted by: SeeJay May 14 2014, 04:40 AM

SL is more of a plexi kinda sound right?

I love my SP comp. I've been leaving it on more and more.

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 11 2014, 05:49 AM) *
Of the 'little' guys, the Xotic minis are by far the most robust.
I regularly use an SP comp, EP booster and an SL drive live.


Posted by: klasaine May 14 2014, 05:59 AM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 13 2014, 08:40 PM) *
SL is more of a plexi kinda sound right?

I love my SP comp. I've been leaving it on more and more.


Yes. Just commenting on the 'mini' pedals in general.

*The SL has internal dip switches that change the character. A little more gain, a little less gain. More/less mids, etc.

Posted by: SeeJay May 15 2014, 03:55 PM

It hit JCM800 territory if cranked at all in your opinion?

I mean, I like a pretty mid drive myself, just started this post because I need a new flavor to play with.

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 14 2014, 04:59 AM) *
Yes. Just commenting on the 'mini' pedals in general.

*The SL has internal dip switches that change the character. A little more gain, a little less gain. More/less mids, etc.


Posted by: klasaine May 15 2014, 05:19 PM

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 15 2014, 07:55 AM) *
It hit JCM800 territory if cranked at all in your opinion?

I mean, I like a pretty mid drive myself, just started this post because I need a new flavor to play with.

No, not really.
I suppose with overwound humbuckers into an already breaking up tube amp - yeah probably.

Posted by: SeeJay May 15 2014, 05:23 PM

Didn't think so. I'll still check it out next time I see one. Don't know why I hadn't checked it out already.

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 15 2014, 04:19 PM) *
No, not really.
I suppose with overwound humbuckers into an already breaking up tube amp - yeah probably.


Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)