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Posted by: kjutte Nov 15 2008, 05:30 PM

Hi.

It is really, really hard to keep track of the real beat in the section, when the slowed videos start off with a slow, instead of the realtime example.

I'd like to hear other member's opinions, and if they agree, I hope that you (instructors) from now on, do the realtime part first, then slow it down.

Thanks in advance!

Edit:
Slow first isn't a problem if the slowed version is played with a metronome, but it usually isn't.

Posted by: David Wallimann Nov 15 2008, 06:06 PM

That's a realy easy fix and good suggestion I think.

Posted by: Kuba Szafran Nov 15 2008, 06:12 PM

No problem for me, I will remember about it.

Posted by: botoxfox Nov 15 2008, 06:13 PM

I completely agree.

Posted by: kjutte Nov 15 2008, 06:39 PM

Great.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Nov 15 2008, 06:47 PM

Sounds like a good plan
It would be nice to put a voting poll on this and see how many students are for and against.
I personally prefer when you hear example slow and then hear it fast. That way you can play along with the slow one and build up to play fast one.
I have seen fast then slow one in lots of instructional dvd's but again its up to you guys. Voting would be cool though

Posted by: kjutte Nov 15 2008, 06:58 PM

Slow is nice, but it makes you forget the rhythm unless the instructor is using a metronome, which few are.

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Nov 15 2008, 07:04 PM

I think slow and than fast is better. Why? Because it is easier to go back to the beginning than searching the middle of the video for slower playing. And when I am learning the feel of the song, I work with the slower takes 90% of the time. After I know the feel/sound of the melody well, I don't need those videos that much - tabulature + backing tracks are good enough.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 15 2008, 07:05 PM

Order has never bothered me on the slows. However, I will mentioned the things that have in the past.

1) When the timing in the slow version is not that of the as the fast version. There are times when the instructor really does not try to capture the real timing much at all, or may play notes in an AP run as triplets when in fact, the beat is 4/4 in the real version.

2) I always have wanted a full length version without backing, as well as the one with the backing. Only O'Toole did that. It seems like an obvious thing, I can only conjecture why this has not been provided, there probably is some reason, either from Kris (to avoid people copying by ear rather than paying), or just that the guys are professionals, and want to sound as good as they can on something like that. Or something else, I don't know.

But I consider this far and away the best site on earth, with world class instructors, I don't expect anyone to walk on water.

edit: spelled "there" wrong.

Posted by: kjutte Nov 15 2008, 07:09 PM

I agree if the slowed version is in time.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 15 2008, 07:15 PM

I thought that was what you were getting at. I sensed a bit of frustration in your original post, which I have felt, when the timing was not correct on the slow version. That can cause the learner problems.

Posted by: Siggum Nov 15 2008, 07:23 PM

Nice pic Fkalish, is that ur dog?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 15 2008, 07:27 PM

Personally - I prefer having the fast version first. Usually I just want to learn a section/lick - I'll click around the videos to find the one I am looking for, and it's a lot easier if I get to hear the fast one first!

Posted by: Jad Diab Nov 15 2008, 07:33 PM

I just published my last lesson, it has real tempo then slow tempo and both with metronome,

Posted by: fkalich Nov 15 2008, 07:41 PM

no, just thought it was a cute dog. my dog is pretty cute. I highly recommend that young guys get a mutt like mine and walk him a lot. Cute girls always pay notice to my dog, smile and want to pet him. The picture does not capture it all. He has a big dog smile, walks with a waddle and wagging tail.





Some instructors have been great about this, going back to the Ghost of Pavel. I think that there have been times when some just thought "show the notes, they can get the timing from the fast version". But a guy who is skilled can forget that a guy who is new at it, will have a hard time doing that.

This does not bother me anymore, because I know better what is going on. But it did in my first year, year and a half.

Posted by: fatb0t Nov 15 2008, 07:46 PM

I agree with Kris, I prefer fast first - the lick sinks into my skull, then slow so I can practice it.

I must say I really cannot stand talking before each video, I personally think that's a mega waste of time. Really Davids setup is the most ideal, talk about the lesson for a few minutes before you delve into it. Reading the text that accompanies every video before the video starts is like going to a presentation and just having slides read off to you, it's boring, and can be avoided - we can read after all.

Anyways, I'm just happy to have the videos at all. Just my suggestion.

Posted by: kjutte Nov 15 2008, 07:58 PM

That too, without doubt!



Talking is fine, but personally I always want to see the realtime play first, becuase of loading time.
For someone that knows his stuff, talking could be at end, but for someone that needs to know the facts, it's essential to have the walkthrough before the play I believe.

Off topic

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Nov 15 2008, 08:33 PM

Yes I do agree fast version is better to be first (I always put in first).

Posted by: Siggum Nov 15 2008, 08:40 PM

Cool dog ya got there

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Nov 16 2008, 12:02 AM

I also agree that the fast version should be first,so you get an idea what you are going to learn and prepare for that..I always put the real tempo part first.

Posted by: Canis Nov 16 2008, 12:24 AM

• I agree, I'd like to see the fast version first on the majority of the lessons. I often find myself skipping to the end of some videos to find out how this part is supposed to sound. Allthough I don't see this as a big problem
• I agree with the talking as well. I love David's lessons since he have a seperate video with all the talking =)
• Awesome dog, Fkalich ^^

Posted by: Hisham Al-Sanea Nov 16 2008, 12:33 AM

all my lessons the realtime is first and the slow down is second
i think its better to be the realtime in first to still remember the melody then you can play it in slow

Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 16 2008, 01:38 AM

Ouch,I thought we were supposed ti play slow version first

No problem at all,from now on real tempo first and then slow version.

Posted by: kjutte Nov 16 2008, 10:39 AM

Thanks

Posted by: Rooks Nov 16 2008, 10:49 AM

It doesn't matter much to me whether I get the fast version first. Usually I get the fingerwork down from the video pieces and then go back and play the full video to get the timing and little tweaks down in real time ..

I have noticed that when instructors play "the fast part" in the small videos it somehow differs from the same part in the "full" video with backing track because its part of a whole then..

Example is Muris "Blue note in A".. the timing is everything and I got it down by just learning the form from the small videos and then playing along with the full video.. that sets my timing better anyway..

Rooks

Posted by: kjutte Nov 16 2008, 11:31 AM

Timing is a bit harder to keep track of at songs with odd timings, like Muris' oriental shred.

Posted by: SonofDestiny Nov 16 2008, 12:25 PM

You're absolutely right Kjutte!