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Phil66
post Oct 4 2019, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 3 2019, 10:45 PM) *
what is your reported latency wiith helix plug-in??

I'm not home until tomorrow, I'll check sometime this weekend.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 4 2019, 02:41 AM) *
Do any of your devices support thunderbolt? I see from a reply you are getting some lag on your helix plugin? What is your block/buffer/samples setting in reaper? If you can get it down to 32 samples or you should not hear any lag when playing through a plugin. Getting that setting as low as posssible is key. I don't see the original post though, so I don't get what the overall issues are. What's going wrong when you use the helix plugin? It ran perfectly on my laptop which is just a quad i7 16gb ram ssd drive.


I don't think so, I use a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i8. I'll have a fiddle with buffer size when I'm home this weekend. It's not the plug in, I get the same issue with the LT if I switch Reaper to "Record monitoring" rather than "record monitoring off" which is the Helix direct to the monitors but I can't see how to use direct monitoring with the plug in.

What do you mean, you don't see the original post?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 4 2019, 07:16 AM


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Mertay
post Oct 4 2019, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 4 2019, 06:14 AM) *
I don't think so, I use a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i8. I'll have a fiddle with buffer size when I'm home this weekend. It's not the plug in, I get the same issue with the LT if I switch Reaper to "Record monitoring" rather than "record monitoring off" which is the Helix direct to the monitors but I can't see how to use direct monitoring with the plug in.


DAW monitoring from plug-in and hardware helix (or any input source) should give you similar latency so thats normal. Direct monitoring only works with hardware, software can only work with monitoring from reaper.

We'll have a better understanding once we learn your reported latency from reaper and investigate from there.


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Phil66
post Oct 4 2019, 02:05 PM
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Thanks Mertay

Just for the record I've never changed any buffer or sample settings so they will be at the default still.

Cheers

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 4 2019, 08:48 PM


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Mertay
post Oct 4 2019, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 4 2019, 01:05 PM) *
Thanks Mertay

Just for the record is never changed any buffer or smoke settings so they will be at the default still.


If buffer is high then solution is simple, post a photo of the asio buffer settings too if possible so we'll get a better idea.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 5 2019, 01:24 AM
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I saw a reply where you were talking about having issues with the plugin. It sounds like direct monitoring works? Why not just use that?
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 4 2019, 02:14 AM) *
I'm not home until tomorrow, I'll check sometime this weekend.



I don't think so, I use a 2nd gen Scarlett 18i8. I'll have a fiddle with buffer size when I'm home this weekend. It's not the plug in, I get the same issue with the LT if I switch Reaper to "Record monitoring" rather than "record monitoring off" which is the Helix direct to the monitors but I can't see how to use direct monitoring with the plug in.

What do you mean, you don't see the original post?

Thanks.
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Phil66
post Oct 5 2019, 06:50 AM
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I get no sound when I use direct.monitoring with Native, it seems as though direct monitoring bypasses the computer so its just Helix into soundcard allowing Reaper to record. Can't see how to do this with Native.




QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 5 2019, 01:24 AM) *
I saw a reply where you were talking about having issues with the plugin. It sounds like direct monitoring works? Why not just use that?



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jstcrsn
post Oct 5 2019, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 5 2019, 06:50 AM) *
I get no sound when I use direct.monitoring with Native, it seems as though direct monitoring bypasses the computer so its just Helix into soundcard allowing Reaper to record. Can't see how to do this with Native.

so , you might have said this , is your routing guitar >soundcard>native >soundcard > daw
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Phil66
post Oct 5 2019, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Oct 5 2019, 02:05 PM) *
so , you might have said this , is your routing guitar >soundcard>native >soundcard > daw


Not sure to be honest, never messed with routing in Reaper. I'm waiting for luggage at airport at the moment, be a few hours before I can check but I do know guitar >Scarlett then I guess Reaper and then Native because native opens within Reaper. Not much experience with plugins.

Cheers


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jstcrsn
post Oct 5 2019, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 5 2019, 02:52 PM) *
Not sure to be honest, never messed with routing in Reaper. I'm waiting for luggage at airport at the moment, be a few hours before I can check but I do know guitar >Scarlett then I guess Reaper and then Native because native opens within Reaper. Not much experience with plugins.

Cheers
sounds like the right sequence , I was just wanting to make sure there was not some extra step increasing latency. This is how I do it .so I would monitor thru reaper , if you try to monitor any other way you will introduce latency. Is monitoring turned on in reaper .
To help- you want to record with as little effects as possible and when you go to mixing turn your buffering up high
my Block size is 256 this leaves as much latency as if you were standing about 25 feet from your amp ( pretty much none ), now when I have ez drummer a bass midi , a bass midi plugin , a plugin guitar rhythm track (left and right )and then a guitar plugin for a solo track. Sometimes it works other times it clicks , it seems usually before an update , which updates usually screw up either reaper or Bias Fx for a few days

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...amp;qpid=771766

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Mertay
post Oct 5 2019, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Oct 5 2019, 04:21 PM) *
.... turn your buffering up high
my Block size is 256 this leaves as much latency as if you were standing about 25 feet from your amp ( pretty much none )...


Buffer size vs latency is system dependent. For example if used thunderbold instead of usb soundcard, or even 96khz instead of 44100 you'll get different results. My soundcard also gives a USB stream option which affects latency vs system stability. Asio4all could be tested just incase if phill's focusrite has any sort of compatibility problem.

But first we must learn what latency is he getting and start slowly from there, it could be many things.

Edit; also to be honest I forget about things when a topic updates slowly so keeping everything in 1 place would be great, I could look back if we already tried something or not if needed.

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Phil66
post Oct 5 2019, 07:57 PM
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Now I'm remembering why I don't like plugins!!!!!!!!! If my Helix LT is on, I can only hear that over everything else unless I turn the output down on the patch. The LT goes through inputs 1+2 (Stereo) on the Scarlett and even with those turned right down I still get the LT sound going through input 3, input 3 is a direct feed (clean) from the xlr output of my Relay G10 so why is the LT coming through that???????????????

Anyway, if I turn the patch down in LT I can hear the Native patch, I can even hear it relatively loud with input 3 down to zero.

I can also hear the dry signal followed in an almost slapback echo time, by the effected signal, this is what is doing my head in apart from the fact that the Helix LT is making its way into input 3 mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif

Thanks for your help with this folks, I hope I can get it working, I was really hoping to be able to use Overloud TH-U at some point if the rig hasn't gone through the window before then.

I don't know if I've done it right but I started LatencyMon and strummed the strings while taking a screenshot. I won't be able to do any more tonight though. Cheers



This post has been edited by Phil66: Oct 5 2019, 08:01 PM


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jstcrsn
post Oct 5 2019, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 5 2019, 07:57 PM) *
Now I'm remembering why I don't like plugins!!!!!!!!! If my Helix LT is on, I can only hear that over everything else unless I turn the output down on the patch. The LT goes through inputs 1+2 (Stereo) on the Scarlett and even with those turned right down I still get the LT sound going through input 3, input 3 is a direct feed (clean) from the xlr output of my Relay G10 so why is the LT coming through that???????????????

Anyway, if I turn the patch down in LT I can hear the Native patch, I can even hear it relatively loud with input 3 down to zero.

I can also hear the dry signal followed in an almost slapback echo time, by the effected signal, this is what is doing my head in apart from the fact that the Helix LT is making its way into input 3 mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif

Thanks for your help with this folks, I hope I can get it working, I was really hoping to be able to use Overloud TH-U at some point if the rig hasn't gone through the window before then.

I don't know if I've done it right but I started LatencyMon and strummed the strings while taking a screenshot. I won't be able to do any more tonight though. Cheers


mute the pathes you don't want to hear , it should still record even though it muted
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Mertay
post Oct 5 2019, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 5 2019, 06:57 PM) *
I can also hear the dry signal followed in an almost slapback echo time, by the effected signal, this is what is doing my head in apart from the fact that the Helix LT is making its way into input 3 mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif


Would be much easier to understand if you unplug everything and only plug the guitar to test software biggrin.gif

But the quoted sentence suggests me that from your focusrite soundcards mixer (should be a separate software for the soundcard) has a routing thing going on that must be fixed.

So even with acceptable latency value's (lets say around 10ms) its normal to hear a slight slapback sort of effect when the direct signal is mixed in.

If latencymon say the system is ok, then likely we don't have to suspect and outside program interfering (can be anything like a pdf program etc.) in an exteme. This is a good sign that narrows a lot of things...just don't uninstall it yet just incase we might need it again. Using its detailed report, we may further decrease latency if needed.

So we have 2 issue's to fix, your focusrite mixer setting (stopping the direct signal bleed) and still we don't know your buffer and latency value's smile.gif when you have time, share those first with us and if we conclude its ok then we'll get into the focusrite mixer.


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Phil66
post Oct 5 2019, 09:59 PM
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Thanks Mertay, tomorrow I will give you buffer values but where do I get latency values from? Sorry, you know I have a mental block with this kind of thing wacko.gif

Cheers


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Mertay
post Oct 5 2019, 10:51 PM
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open reaper, on the right upper corner you see sample rate (likely your is 44100), bit depth (likely 24), your buffer size (spls) and then the input+output latency (the total number is your latency. If you don't see anything just press play then should appear.



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Todd Simpson
post Oct 6 2019, 02:04 AM
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Just for testing Mertay is spot on here, take the LT out of the equation just until we get your plugins issues sorted. the LT is just in the way and making things more complicated than they need to be. Just plug the guitar directly in to input one on your scarlett. Bam. Simple. Then add the HELIX plugin to to track you are recording guitar on. Turn on Monitoring for that channel. You should then here the Helix plugin. make sure the plugin is powered on. it should be straight forward, hopefully smile.gif

When you are recording with the plugin, you should just hear the plugin. Not the clean tone and the plugin, assuming you are just using a single track in reaper to record and test the plugin. Use LIVE INPUT MONITORING. Here is a video about setting up your reaper project to use Helix Native. He's using a different interface, so skip that part. He even does a quick bit on adjusting the buffer size to reduce latency. A setting of 128 is ok. If your system can handle it . Try 64.






Todd
QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 5 2019, 03:51 PM) *
Would be much easier to understand if you unplug everything and only plug the guitar to test software biggrin.gif

But the quoted sentence suggests me that from your focusrite soundcards mixer (should be a separate software for the soundcard) has a routing thing going on that must be fixed.

So even with acceptable latency value's (lets say around 10ms) its normal to hear a slight slapback sort of effect when the direct signal is mixed in.

If latencymon say the system is ok, then likely we don't have to suspect and outside program interfering (can be anything like a pdf program etc.) in an exteme. This is a good sign that narrows a lot of things...just don't uninstall it yet just incase we might need it again. Using its detailed report, we may further decrease latency if needed.

So we have 2 issue's to fix, your focusrite mixer setting (stopping the direct signal bleed) and still we don't know your buffer and latency value's smile.gif when you have time, share those first with us and if we conclude its ok then we'll get into the focusrite mixer.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 6 2019, 02:10 AM
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Phil66
post Oct 6 2019, 07:47 AM
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Thanks Todd,

I'll try that as soon as I can. Line 6 have kindly given me another 15 days trial so we should have time.

Cheers

Phil


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jstcrsn
post Oct 6 2019, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 6 2019, 07:47 AM) *
Thanks Todd,

I'll try that as soon as I can. Line 6 have kindly given me another 15 days trial so we should have time.

Cheers

Phil

Have you tried turning off the direct monitor button to get rid of the clean

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Phil66
post Oct 6 2019, 08:06 PM
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In Reaper? I can't see it, I can only see, record monitoring ON/OFF/AUTO, I only get sound with record monitoring on.



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jstcrsn
post Oct 6 2019, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Oct 6 2019, 06:26 PM) *
Have you tried turning off the direct monitor button to get rid of the clean

direct monitoring is on your scarlett . it might not be why you are hearing clean , I am just trying to narrow things down

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 6 2019, 08:06 PM) *
In Reaper? I can't see it, I can only see, record monitoring ON/OFF/AUTO, I only get sound with record monitoring on.

yes , you want this on

could you give us a screen grab of when you hit record
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