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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Single Coil Pickups
Posted by: Becca Apr 1 2014, 03:02 PM
Remember your first guitar? The one you saved real hard for or got bought as that extra special birthday gift. Remember how it felt to hold that guitar. to spend hours practising on it. All the sore finger tips and cramps in the forearm /wrist area. Boy though it was worth it. Chances are that first guitar was a cheap Strat copy. Mine was a Hohner, still got it, gathering dust in my spare room. If yours was a Strat too then you will know what I am going to say next.
Single coil pups. WHY? Why on earth are they still making them? And they are STILL fitting them, as standard, to some expensive guitars.
Think about it for a minute.
A single coil pup is weedy. It sounds thin. It buzzes like a bandsaw EVERY time you take your finger off the metalwork and even Fender kind of admit that the pups are gutless. Why else would they fit a 5 way switch as standard to their Strats if not as an attempt to get some grunt out of those pickups?
Of course that buzz is nothing compared to what you get when you introduce some gain to the signal.
This is the 21st century yet the single coil is still so ubiquitous that we, as musicians just seem to accept it. How many times have you heard someone say or even read in a magazine " Yeah, we wanted that authentic feel to the sound". And you know full well they are talking about buzzing and lo fi output. That's single coil pups for you.
Please don't assume that I am pushing or denigrating any particular brand or model guitar here. I had a very pretty Fender Strat Antigua reissue a few years back. Apart from some quality control issues regarding the finishing of it the guitar was fine. I just wish that it had humbuckers instead.
With Humbuckers having twin coils wound in opposite directions the noise output was dramatically reduced. My Epi Les Paul had its twin stock pickups replaced for hotter Iron Gear pups and it screams like nothing on earth. But ask yourself this. How many times have you thought "Hmm. I think I will rip out those paf's because that Les Paul would sound great with Single coils"?
Well?
My point exactly.
I just tried an experiment . I dusted off my Hohner, a cheap but well made guitar and put it through my pedal board into a Marshall 30 combo. I had to adjust my MXR Noise Clamp in order to hear the clean signal. I then engaged the Rothwell Tornado i use for overdrive. The MXR just turned its gate light on and sulked. I have the use of a Vintage VRS guitar. Similar build quality I would say to the Hohner but is equipped with twin 'buckers. I put that through the same set up and rig and it worked just fine. And I didn't have to use a bucketload of compression on it either.
So I repeat my question.
What is the point of Single coil pickups?
Posted by: klasaine Apr 1 2014, 04:00 PM
This guy does OK with single coils:
Him too:
A little more modern maybe?
No compressors, no noise gates on these rigs. You learn what's good about it, you learn to deal with it.
Posted by: Becca Apr 1 2014, 05:08 PM
Him too:
No compressors, no noise gates on these rigs. You learn what's good about it, you learn to deal with it.
And your point is..what exactly? Yngwie happens to use a Strat but no compression, noise gate or band pass filters? Come on.
And Hendrix used strats too.
FORTY years ago!
He could also use his Gibson SG just as well. You know as well as I do that the noise was Jimi"s appeal. Listen to the disastrous re mastering of his work in the early days of the CD reissues of his albums. You heard stuff that he never intended you to hear. Stuff that contributed to the ambience of his work but wasn't meant to clean up for the digital age. Oh yes, and lots of buzzing.
This is 2014. Why aren't new guitars using Humbuckers or Piezo bridges? I am simply suggesting that single coil pups are old and outmoded and cheap. Doesn't your new guitar,particularly when you are shelling out big money for it, deserve to be equipped with the superior humbuckers?
Er.. Klasaine, I have to admit to be strumming a Frankenstein Tele right now. Its similar layout to Keef's but,of course the bridge single coil pup buzzes too much so I use the neck bucker mostly.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 1 2014, 05:18 PM
My point is that even with a ton of gain - I just edited the above post to include a modern/current Paul Gilbert clip - there are folks who like the sound of single coil pickups. They can be huge sounding. And 'good' ones def are neither cheap nor inferior.
*If you have that much noise - which is not normal as you're describing it - your issues could just be a bad set of single coils or your dist pedal or your gate - ?
Also, all kinds of elec equip in your house (computer monitors, lack of proper grounding, a juicer or a hair dryer, etc.) can cause a lot of 60 cycle hum through your guitar.
Pickup technology hasn't changed much since about 1955.
Hendrix occasionally used humbuckers (a flying V) but preferred the sound of a Strat with normal output singles.
A lot of (studio) Zep was done on a Tele and a Danelectro.
If you don't dig 'em - cool. But plenty do (as you'll see in the proceeding posts).
And hey, you asked.
Posted by: Hexabuzz Apr 1 2014, 05:27 PM
Ummm... Because a humbucker will never sound like a single coil? And some people prefer that tone?
Please read the article and listen to the clips... He does a nice job of explaining and showing the difference, and why you'd want it... Not trying to change your mind, or the tones you prefer, but think perhaps you may have missed some of the subtleties and differences that only singles can give...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/what-is-strat-quack-anyway/
And a great performance with amazing tone that just isn't going to happen any other way than with singles...
There are so many other classic pickups with unique sounds and that's why they're still making them, like the P-90, which is also a type of single coil.
Posted by: Headbanger Apr 1 2014, 06:21 PM
Its probably just a matter of taste as the others have pointed out. I have one guitar with Humbuckers and the other with single coils...I have one of each because I like that they both do what the other can't. 
Nice article that Hexabuzz posted about the strat 'quack'....starring Mr. Darius Wave!!!
Posted by: AK Rich Apr 1 2014, 06:55 PM
For me, I absolutely love the original and vintage tones you can get from a stratocaster with single coils. Nothing else sounds like them. Personally, I would never buy a strat with humbuckers, to me it would just defeat the purpose. To each his own and plenty of people love single coil pups, I don't see them going away anytime soon.
Here is another guy that seems to prefer single coils.
Edit, Here is another guy that loves his single coils.
Posted by: Becca Apr 1 2014, 07:57 PM
Please read the article and listen to the clips... He does a nice job of explaining and showing the difference, and why you'd want it... Not trying to change your mind, or the tones you prefer, but think perhaps you may have missed some of the subtleties and differences that only singles can give...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/what-is-strat-quack-anyway/
And a great performance with amazing tone that just isn't going to happen any other way than with singles...
There are so many other classic pickups with unique sounds and that's why they're still making them, like the P-90, which is also a type of single coil.
Thanks Hexabuzz for actually trying to see what I was getting at. My point really was how we as muso's are allowing manufacturers to be complacent with the equipment they provide." We do them with single coils because thats how we always done it" is not really good enough in my opinion. That article you provided illustrates my point really well. Even if it is a Seymour Duncan site they acknowledge that there have always been the problems with single coils and are coming up with innovative ways of sorting these problems out. I particularly like the sound of the Duckbucker and the stacked type too.
The thing is , as was pointed out by the guy above, these pup designs basically haven't changed since the 50's so it's high time things were pushed forward to sort these problems out.
And great claims about "voicing" are made in Pup manufacturers adverts. (not just SD folks ,they all do it) well surely they could make a noiseless, stacked bucker to sound more like a trad pup?
I meant to make it clear that I often use Strat's and Tele's when it is suitable to do so. I obviously didn't succeed as lots of people are rushing in to defend their tone. It's not about that ,guys and I can name lots of Strat players too.
.Right hopefully now we can get somewhere. Has anyone got any thoughts of how perhaps digital modelling might be used to improve things? Or any suggestions that guitar manufacturers could possibly think about offering as options? I think to begin with these pups could be more expensive, but if they can get it right and it becomes more popular the price will come down.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 1 2014, 08:07 PM
Yes ...
http://fluence.fishman.com/
http://www.fishman.com/articles/fishman-fluence-electric-guitar-pickups-unveiled-in-premier-guit
'Noiseless' single coils have been manufactured since the early 80s. As of yet nobody's gotten it right (I've tried them all and I always switch back). Maybe the Fishman's will be different - ? I hope so.
Ultimately taste related.
If you're into very modern metal (of whatever sub-genre) then probably some type of humbucker is your best option.
Posted by: PosterBoy Apr 1 2014, 08:19 PM
I much prefer single coils to humbuckers
Posted by: Becca Apr 1 2014, 08:30 PM
Pickup technology hasn't changed much since about 1955. Hendrix occasionally used humbuckers (a flying V) but preferred the sound of a Strat with normal output singles. A lot of (studio) Zep was done on a Tele and a Danelectro.
If you don't dig 'em - cool ... but plenty do.
And hey, you asked -?
Hi Ken. Hey, I DID ask, and what I got was clips of well known Strat players and an admonishment to learn to work around it from you. I happen to think that if I spend four figures on a guitar the least i can expect is for it to be noise free. and not have pups that buzz and suck tone from the signal.
It's not good enough friend, and its our complacency that enables it. I just got to read a really good piece on Seymour Duncan Stacked and Duckbucker pups that sounds very promising and it is to their credit that they are trying to move pup design along.
Guitar manufacturers should be doing all they can to keep a vintage tone without the associated problems but as long as we who buy their products accept what we are given, then its not going to improve, is it?
Nice article that Hexabuzz posted about the strat 'quack'....starring Mr. Darius Wave!!!Hi HB, I agree, tone is a matter of individual taste and It's my fault for not being clearer.I don't want to come across as some sort of Tone Fascist. I still have my first Strat (a cheap copy) and in the 80's had a Fender strat(bloody expensive). I also still have a modded Tele. What I couldn't accept was the amount of noise from even my Fender. I took it back to the dealer ,(remember them, before the interweb)? And was told by him it was all part of the Fender charm! Not acceptable to me then or now. That SD article Hexabuzz posted to me was a revelation. Exactly the right way to be going.
Posted by: Mertay Apr 1 2014, 08:47 PM
1-Without being technical but technologically comparing these; Piezo-single-humbucker-active humbucker...
This is a row of which can handle+reflect complex harmonic information like chords from better to worst. Whats interesting is it also reflects technological advancement 
So its not always about technology. When we pull a string, we actually hear many notes inside that 1 note as this is also a character of each sound.
2-Vintage sound is another word for a tone thats standardized. Its a safe route for musicians which is guarantied to succeed specially in a matching genre. Since guitar tone is all about balance, its really not simple to tweak these without changing something else that wasn't intended to change.
It might buzz but something else is also in there that others want to hear. No matter how advanced, no tech. can replicate an original perfect.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 1 2014, 09:34 PM
OK, relax.
This is actually part of what you said ...
Think about it for a minute.
A single coil pup is weedy. It sounds thin. It buzzes like a bandsaw EVERY time you take your finger off the metalwork and even Fender kind of admit that the pups are gutless. Why else would they fit a 5 way switch as standard to their Strats if not as an attempt to get some grunt out of those pickups?
This is why I and few others posted clips of gained out Strat players.
It's your 9th post and you come out of the gate slagging a great sound that actually isn't too noisy if you work on learning to deal with it. You get the comments you get when you talk like that.
Feel free to use the ignore function on me.
Posted by: Darius Wave Apr 1 2014, 10:16 PM
I love the bite of Single Coils! Those sweet trebles and dynamics. I know it's not visible on my current published vids but I'm more single than some of my friends suspect I would never ate my ego to agree with anybody but I can't honestly say this now...I HAD TO GROWN UP TO SINGLE COIL TONE...
Previously I was just wondering why the hell people play pickups that are so harsh and noisy. But..through Years I started to realize WHY and it's impossible to explain to anyone until he/she get's to the same point on he/she 's own. No one could never explain me and I think it's pointless. This day will come for some of us and for some never will. And I think it's nothing bad at all....but just smiled to myself imagining current me trying to explain "young me" why singles are so cool
Oh...and the low output, Alnico 5, noisy, not shielded pickups
Oh that yummy glass in tone, this brilliance while playing with fingers and that damn bite while hitting strings with full power
Ha ha ha! Thanx Rod and Hexabuzz - I would never notice they included my vid in this article
Posted by: Becca Apr 1 2014, 11:21 PM
This is actually part of what you said ...
This is why I and few others posted clips of gained out Strat players.
It's your 9th post and you come out of the gate slagging a great sound that actually isn't too noisy if you work on learning to deal with it. You get the comments you get when you talk like that.
Feel free to use the ignore function on me.
hi kenny. Dont worry my friend i am quite relaxed even though everyone and his dog has disagreed with me. I wouldnt dream of using the ignore function on you even if I knew what it was.
I still think that the Seymor Duncan Bumf that Hexbuzzer posted is what the guitar manufacturers should be working toward.
I shall look forward to having similar debates with you and the rest of the gang on here in the future.
xxPlease read the article and listen to the clips... He does a nice job of explaining and showing the difference, and why you'd want it... Not trying to change your mind, or the tones you prefer, but think perhaps you may have missed some of the subtleties and differences that only singles can give...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/what-is-strat-quack-anyway/
And a great performance with amazing tone that just isn't going to happen any other way than with singles...
There are so many other classic pickups with unique sounds and that's why they're still making them, like the P-90, which is also a type of single coil.
Hi Hexabuzz. sorry but I mentioned you in another reply and realised I got your name wrong. Sorry again, no offence intented.
Those sweet trebles and dynamics. I know it's not visible on my current published vids but I'm more single than some of my friends suspect I would never ate my ego to agree with anybody but I can't honestly say this now...I HAD TO GROWN UP TO SINGLE COIL TONE...Previously I was just wondering why the hell people play pickups that are so harsh and noisy. But..through Years I started to realize WHY and it's impossible to explain to anyone until he/she get's to the same point on he/she 's own. No one could never explain me and I think it's pointless. This day will come for some of us and for some never will. And I think it's nothing bad at all....but just smiled to myself imagining current me trying to explain "young me" why singles are so cool
Oh...and the low output, Alnico 5, noisy, not shielded pickups
Oh that yummy glass in tone, this brilliance while playing with fingers and that damn bite while hitting strings with full power
Thank you Darius, thats a lovely response. I think I probably came across as too anti single coils where I should have been bemoaning the lack of development in the industry. love your playing by the way.
Ha ha ha! Thanx Rod and Hexabuzz - I would never notice they included my vid in this article
This is a row of which can handle+reflect complex harmonic information like chords from better to worst. Whats interesting is it also reflects technological advancement
So its not always about technology. When we pull a string, we actually hear many notes inside that 1 note as this is also a character of each sound.
2-Vintage sound is another word for a tone thats standardized. Its a safe route for musicians which is guarantied to succeed specially in a matching genre. Since guitar tone is all about balance, its really not simple to tweak these without changing something else that wasn't intended to change.
It might buzz but something else is also in there that others want to hear. No matter how advanced, no tech. can replicate an original perfect.
hi Mertay. Thank you for posting. If I understand you correctly the sine wave of a musical note will also incorporate other sub-harmonics of constituent notes. my question about digital modelling being able to represent an authentic vintage tone is not viable then?
Ah well it was just a thought. i am tired now so going to sign off for the night.
See ya. xx
Posted by: jstcrsn Apr 1 2014, 11:43 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, But my first thought is,you need to present us with tone matching with humbuckers so we can have something to have a discussion about .To say you don't like something and not give an example for us to discuss ,well, everything becomes hearsay
Posted by: Hexabuzz Apr 1 2014, 11:57 PM
Becca,
May I call you Becca? No offense taken at the name mishap
I always enjoy a good debate and discussion...
I'm also glad you enjoyed the blog post at SD, and I hope you liked the clips.
That being said...
I obviously don't have as strong a feeling as you about this topic, but also, I'm actually in the opposite camp as you regarding single coils...
Yes, I think it's great that manufacturers continue to experiment and evolve and improve their design...
However, to me, I honestly prefer the traditional single coil designs, in all their forms (Strat, Tele, P-90), noise and all... I think that their shortcomings are a small price to pay for their tone...
That's really all I have to say - I hope you find what you're looking for in a pickup - Good luck!
Posted by: TeoWulf Apr 2 2014, 12:17 AM
It's all about da Blackmore tonez! Seriously, what kind of an answer did you expect?
Howerver, because I am gracious enough to assume that this post is indeed very much connected to the date of it's posting, I will present you with an answer that details my true oppinion.
The single coil pickups are much more responsive in nature, that's why they pick up all the unwanted noise. This, on the other hand, has positve effects on the tone and channels the player's nuances better. Having said that, I do think that there are noisless single coil pickups that sound quite good, such as Lace Sensors. Much respected people, like Clapton and Blackmore use those, so they mustn't be that bad. But then again, you could simply want the noise. It can be integrated into solos quite nicely, as per below.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 2 2014, 12:53 AM
I shall look forward to having similar debates with you and the rest of the gang on here in the future.
xxLooking forward to it becky
Posted by: Mertay Apr 2 2014, 12:56 AM
Ah well it was just a thought. i am tired now so going to sign off for the night.
See ya. xx
That really depends on the expectation but in an engineers view its far from perfect;
Problems with sampling fx (amps, pedals etc.) is the gain is always constant, amplitube amps for example are sampled by a fixed gain setting and the drive knob is artificial (which is the reason why some users dislike amplitube's distorted sounds). Too much gain results in extreme unnatural form (visually distorted too) in the sine wave that simply cannot translate. Too low gain then you have the equipment noise affecting the freq. response.
Not to mention a sinewave occurring naturally is an extremely rare thing. Its also very delicate to filtering so this both has its up and down sides.
But the real problem is although you have a digital representation of an analog sound, you can't reflect it to a standard. Like the speakers, sound card you use will change the sound...
http://www.acustica-audio.com/
Check out the website and forum as there is lots of info that should help you understand the benefits and limits. They use a licensed tech. which only works on small amounts of distortion (like studio equipment) but the process is very similar to other brands like kemper, amplitube etc...
Posted by: AK Rich Apr 2 2014, 12:58 AM
Those sweet trebles and dynamics. I know it's not visible on my current published vids but I'm more single than some of my friends suspect I would never ate my ego to agree with anybody but I can't honestly say this now...I HAD TO GROWN UP TO SINGLE COIL TONE...Previously I was just wondering why the hell people play pickups that are so harsh and noisy. But..through Years I started to realize WHY and it's impossible to explain to anyone until he/she get's to the same point on he/she 's own. No one could never explain me and I think it's pointless. This day will come for some of us and for some never will. And I think it's nothing bad at all....but just smiled to myself imagining current me trying to explain "young me" why singles are so cool
Oh...and the low output, Alnico 5, noisy, not shielded pickups
Oh that yummy glass in tone, this brilliance while playing with fingers and that damn bite while hitting strings with full power
Ha ha ha! Thanx Rod and Hexabuzz - I would never notice they included my vid in this article
Well said Darek! And +1, I feel the same way and couldn't have said it better myself!
Posted by: miguelbatalha Apr 2 2014, 01:01 AM
Your worst nightmare is reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek2ysxtmQZw
Boom! bass with THREE single coils. haha
Posted by: Mudbone Apr 2 2014, 01:37 AM
Manufacturers continue to produce single coils because the profit margin on them is staggering. There is also an incredible demand for them. Any guitar or pickup manufacturer that wants to make a profit would be insane not to follow the market. They only cost pennies to make, yet can sell for hundreds.
Tone, however, is almost completely subjective. Music is painting with sound, a single coil tone is just one of many colors available.
Of course, there is the issue of noise, while even though I love the tone of single coils, it drives me crazy. But there are a variety of noiseless pickups available that reproduce about 98% of the tone.
I don't think it is fair to say that new pickups aren't being developed and pushed to market. There are. Plenty. But most guitarists are traditionalists, and that's what the market caters to.
Here is a list of a few "advanced" pickup designs that have been around for varying amounts of time. Some are fairly new, like Zexcoil, while others, like the Joe Bardens and Lace Sensors, have been around for decades.
http://www.zexcoil.com/
http://www.lacemusic.com/sensors.php
http://www.lacemusic.com/Alumitone_Humbucker.php
http://www.sublimepickups.com/en/index.php
http://jbepickups.com/
But the reason why I like them is because they have a character like no other. It is THAT sound. To me, when I think of guitar sound, I think of a Fender Stratocaster tone. And I'm a more of a metal guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek2ysxtmQZw
Boom! bass with THREE single coils. haha
This is priceless
Posted by: Hexabuzz Apr 2 2014, 02:00 AM
There's always the Variax, which is dealing strictly with the modeling of the guitar/pickups... And no noise on your "single coils" (jump to 2:00)...
Posted by: Mertay Apr 2 2014, 02:05 AM
Though there are types of noiseless single designs, when examined probably all are using the tech. of humbuckers. They do sound single-coil like as they're pointing at a narrow field but internally operates a bit different.
For noiseless (though haven't played but listened on web) I like PRS's approach (408 is a good example). It feels more like an original sound than a copy of singlecoils but it does have qualities of a single coil too. This year Gibson also started to make guitars thats electically "splitted" like PRS.
What it does is beside splitting it also adds only a small amount of the neighbor single's lower freq.s, so the noise is partly eliminated (not as strong as a humbucker but still good) while the mid and highs aren't. Sure its not the same but a very good alternative.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 2 2014, 02:27 AM
This has been inside a lot of Suhr guitars for some time now:
http://www.ilitchelectronics.com/
We've discussed it here before - a newer version of the recessed 'dummy' coil system.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 2 2014, 08:46 AM
I love single coils because of the all the nuances in the pick attack which they capture so well - but that's about it. However I think the attack is incredibly important when shaping your own tone. Preferably I would like to have the best of both worlds in one pickup!
I really like the fender SCN (Samarium Cobalt Noiseless) single coils in my strat, they are pretty noiseless and a result of a collaboration between Fender and Bill Lawrence. They have a modern sound - but still with all the characteristics of single coils (well to me at least).
So do we as customers slow the development pace down by accepting (and purchasing) noisy single coil guitars?
Rather than selling decent guitars with noisy pickups, I would like to see the big brands sell some guitars without pickups at all, so I could get a better deal and make use of the spare pickups I have gathered over the years..
Posted by: Darius Wave Apr 2 2014, 09:38 AM
About the Ilitch - I made a tests with different dummy coilsand it's probably the best solution I ever found (for my personal taste). I even matched some dummy coil for split option of my SH2N in Hufschmid guitar. I have a set of SD STK4 wchich are noiseless, as well as good, old SSL-1 and a full set of "five-two". both SSL-1 and 52 are classic cingle coils with no wax and no shielding + alnico magnets (2 and 5). Even If I was fighting with noise through all my life I finished saying "old singles are best" and I know I'm a part of majority in this case. Classic Stacks are noiseless but even if they sound more like a single coil...it's nothing close to SSL-1 - simply felt in the brightness and fulness of harmonics. If Your guitar is bright itselt You might not feel the difference as much as with cheap, muddy piece of wood (like budget alder guitars for 200$). In this case You feel like You play different guitar because brightness of instrument affects the wat amp reacts on Your playing dynamics. Of course...not and amp like 5150 or DR but with AC30, RH30, AD30 or Plexi You will feel like your playing different amp just by changing the guitar pickup. Of course...there is one condition - You have to enjoy that types of amps.
Posted by: klasaine Apr 2 2014, 06:42 PM
I haven't felt like trying the Illitch system on any of my single coils axes as of yet. Although I have many colleagues that use it and love it.
I've found that if I shield the guitar's cavity and the underside of the pickguard with copper tape and paint, use good wire, jacks and pots and something known as 'STAR' grounding http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?245437-Grounding-my-guitar that my strats and teles are very usable even with some pretty high-gained tones. *But also my cables are all decent, I try to keep my amps serviced, quality power supply for the pedals (or all batteries - which is quietest) and any really 'noisy' pedal gets yanked off the board. The whole chain is part of either noisier or quieter. I've found that even with over wound singles, including P-90s, that a good shielding job and good wire go a very long way to quieting things down.
There are some clubs here in Los Angeles where I will not bring a single coils only guitar.
I have a tele with Pete Florence noiseless pkups, a strat with a 'bucker in the bridge (little 59) an LP and an Ibby 335 ripoff model. Though even in the REALLY noisy clubs, even an axe with two humbuckers can attract a little noise. Unless the humbuckers are perfectly matched impedance wise can be a little noisy. *Interestingly, the best sounding dual 'bucker designed guitars as well as what the high-end pkup makers design and build are 'on purpose' not perfectly (impedance) matched because in the middle position they sound better and also have a better match between neck and bridge volume wise.
I think you can only achieve 'dead quiet' in any situation with truly active (powered) pickups. Hence the contributions by EMG and Bartolini in the early days of 'Arena' rock. Light bars, smoke pots, walkie talkies - you wanna talk about noise through your guitar ...
Posted by: Becca Apr 3 2014, 01:51 AM
Now we are getting somewhere with this. I admit that there was a touch of mischief in the way I posed this question. I think TeoWulf was the first to suspect ,so well done that man. However I did want to see how this forum handles itself even when someone, ahem, drops a boulder in the pond. What I learned was this site is not only fun but has musos on here who are thoughtful and articulate and who love a good debate. Mudbone really picked the ball up when he pointed out the low cost of manufacturing pups compared to the mark up. Kenny, the irrepressible klasaine, told us the lengths he had to go to on one of his guitars to improve the shielding. This is part of what I want to get at. We slog to buy the best we can afford to do the job we love. If we were builders and our tools were not made to the highest standard that manufacturer would be out of business pretty darn quick. I admire Ken for being able to do the extra finishing work on his guitar that it needed. It just makes me cross that it hadn't come from the factory adequately shielded.
I mentioned my old USA Fender Strat . It was a ltd edition reissue in a lovely Antigua finish. Kind of like a pearl grey sunburst if you don't know it. It had a micro tilt neck so it was possibly a '72 reissue? It cost hundreds of pounds more than the standard Strats hanging next it in the Fender dealership in Ealing. It also weighed a ton. I gradually became aware of how noisy it was as said before, but also lots of finishing issues. The scratch plate was bowed outwards from the body. The slot for the five way was left rough cut. Turning down the the tone knobs increased the buzzing and operating the switch varied from a bit of crackle to thumps and bangs. I had to take a can of WD40 into the orchestra pit every session! The dealer tried to tell me it was "authentic Fender" but in the end used the TINY argument on me (tough, it's now yours)!
By raising these sort of issues here, amongst musicians who routinely help each other out and who can discuss the hind legs off a donkey we may be able to bring issues that have plagued us , all of us, for years out into the sunlight. Perhaps get companies to raise their game a bit in response. Hell, even Gibson now offer coil split and phase shift on the Les Paul. It took them until 2012 and undoubtedly in response to PRS eating into their sales but it shows that mountains can move. Eventually.
And now I realise all of this should be under a new topic for discussion, not just pinned in the end of this topic. Sorry, still new to the forum thing. I will copy it into a new discussion topic. Please join in there guys.
Posted by: Darius Wave Apr 3 2014, 09:01 AM
Exactly Becca Here we have some descent, healthy discussions with no offending and no childish behavior But You know it's true - more or less purposely , You did put the stick into the anthill
Posted by: Headbanger Apr 3 2014, 11:41 AM
Ahem...you mean an asteroid into a bucket of water!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 4 2014, 08:42 AM
I really like the fender SCN (Samarium Cobalt Noiseless) single coils in my strat, they are pretty noiseless and a result of a collaboration between Fender and Bill Lawrence. They have a modern sound - but still with all the characteristics of single coils (well to me at least).
So do we as customers slow the development pace down by accepting (and purchasing) noisy single coil guitars?
Rather than selling decent guitars with noisy pickups, I would like to see the big brands sell some guitars without pickups at all, so I could get a better deal and make use of the spare pickups I have gathered over the years..
VERY interesting Kris
Though I see this as a special sort of offer which addresses people who know what they need and I am sure that you were referring to the same thing as well. A beginner would never benefit this sort of offer as he lacks the necessary experience to tell what's what. I sometimes get questions like - hey, how in blazes can you tell a Fender tone from a Gibson tone. Our ears have grown so accustomed to these subtle differences and tone characteristics, we can almost instantaneously tell them apart.Regarding single coils - I'm a big fan myself. As you said, the brilliance and nuances in the tone are unmistakeable.. But for each, his own. Some people don't like them...
Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 6 2014, 12:40 AM
Ahem. Todd here! There really is a short simple answer to your original question.
1.)Some players prefer the tone of Single Coil Pups
Typically, though not always, these are NOT the guys in MESHUGGAH. Folks that really like single coils, often have a matching overall tone and style of play that compliments them.
Now the, as for your experiment. What you did there was actually try to use single coils as if they were humbuckers 
They aren't. They just aren't and never will be. Now you can get some stacked singles that behave more like buckers But if you want a high gain sound, are not looking for a glassy clean/jazz tone, etc. then you don't want singles. You want buckers
Personally, my fav guitar is a RG560 with HSS configuration and I LOVE the single coil in the neck position for clean work as well as for it's unique tone during solos. I usually use the mid an bridge single coils at the same time so that they don't hum/buzz. Still sounds more like a single than a bucker, and gets rid of noise, and increases ouput.
So in short, some folks like single coils for certain things and so they still have their place I like them paired with buckers (eg. HSS or HSH ) to provide a greater sonic space to work in.
So, there ya have it 
Single coil pups. WHY? Why on earth are they still making them? And they are STILL fitting them, as standard, to some expensive guitars.
Think about it for a minute.
A single coil pup is weedy. It sounds thin. It buzzes like a bandsaw EVERY time you take your finger off the metalwork and even Fender kind of admit that the pups are gutless. Why else would they fit a 5 way switch as standard to their Strats if not as an attempt to get some grunt out of those pickups?
Of course that buzz is nothing compared to what you get when you introduce some gain to the signal.
This is the 21st century yet the single coil is still so ubiquitous that we, as musicians just seem to accept it. How many times have you heard someone say or even read in a magazine " Yeah, we wanted that authentic feel to the sound". And you know full well they are talking about buzzing and lo fi output. That's single coil pups for you.
Please don't assume that I am pushing or denigrating any particular brand or model guitar here. I had a very pretty Fender Strat Antigua reissue a few years back. Apart from some quality control issues regarding the finishing of it the guitar was fine. I just wish that it had humbuckers instead.
With Humbuckers having twin coils wound in opposite directions the noise output was dramatically reduced. My Epi Les Paul had its twin stock pickups replaced for hotter Iron Gear pups and it screams like nothing on earth. But ask yourself this. How many times have you thought "Hmm. I think I will rip out those paf's because that Les Paul would sound great with Single coils"?
Well?
My point exactly.
I just tried an experiment . I dusted off my Hohner, a cheap but well made guitar and put it through my pedal board into a Marshall 30 combo. I had to adjust my MXR Noise Clamp in order to hear the clean signal. I then engaged the Rothwell Tornado i use for overdrive. The MXR just turned its gate light on and sulked. I have the use of a Vintage VRS guitar. Similar build quality I would say to the Hohner but is equipped with twin 'buckers. I put that through the same set up and rig and it worked just fine. And I didn't have to use a bucketload of compression on it either.
So I repeat my question.
What is the point of Single coil pickups?
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