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Posted by: ShredNChunk Jul 25 2011, 01:29 PM

Hey all

Just re-joined here. I started playing in a band again last year, and i want to be able to progress in my lead playing, faster than i have been until now. Thing is, even though i played guitar for about 15 years now, i suck horribly at any kind of lead/soloing. I can barely manage that solo from Nothing else matters and fade to black intro. I want to be able to play solos like Jim Roots solo from Psychosocial or Dimes from Moth for war. I know it's a long way, but the problem is, i have NO idea where to start. Im so overwhelmed by all these different instructional videos, and since time is somewhat limited to me, i don't want to spend a lot of time rehearsing things that won't even give me progress.

How do i carry on determining what to start rehearsing etc.?

If you wan't to probe me a bit, i'm definately up for a challenge.

Posted by: dark dude Jul 25 2011, 02:49 PM

Hey man, could you record a video of yourself playing? The quality doesn't matter so much. Don't worry about how good it sounds, either. It'll be way easier to give you some help if we can see how you play, and what you're doing right and wrong.

You have those targets of Psychosocial and Mouth for War, you need to look at the parts you'd like to play and see what techniques are used and how good you are at them. If the gap is too big, choose some other songs you like that are more in your reach. If you try to play something too out of your league straight away, it'll kill your motivation and you'll feel like it was time wasted. However, if you learn something in your reach, you'll feel good about it, and want to try another song, bringing your skills up.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 25 2011, 03:04 PM

Hi Man, welcome (back) to GMC

Regardless of musical style or tastes, there are a few universal techniques that you will definitely want to improve in, namely bending timing, alternate picking etc..

How is your string bending ? You mentioned the Nothing Else Matters solo.. it's got a few bends in there and I wondered what parts of that solo give you trouble ?

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jul 25 2011, 03:10 PM

It would be good if you had some idea on what particular area of lead playing you want to upgrade, this would make the learning process more efficient.

In order for us to recommend some specific techniques or scales to practice, first let us know what style you're after, what type of music, what do you enjoy playing the most?

In general, everybody benefit from pentatonic scale one way or another, so if you haven't learned all 5 boxes equally well, you can start from there right away. Next to that, post some samples of your playing so we can notice the weak spots, and let us know about your musical preferences like asked. This will help us develop a customized practice plan for your limited time.

Posted by: Mike RR24 Jul 25 2011, 03:22 PM

What do they mean by the 5 boxes of the pentatonic scales ? Where can I find more info.

Posted by: dark dude Jul 25 2011, 03:51 PM

You can take the pentatonic scales (major and minor), and divide them up into 5 parts. These parts all connect to allow you to play the scale all over an octave. Here is the G minor pentatonic scale, divided into its 5 boxes. When it's in 5 parts, it's easier to learn and easier to visualize:

Posted by: Mike RR24 Jul 25 2011, 04:03 PM

Awesome thanks.

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Jul 25 2011, 04:31 PM

Hey mate, for more info check Ivan's Pentatonic Workshop:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pentatonic-workshop-level1-caged-format-timing-exercises/

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jul 25 2011, 04:37 PM

You can check out my Pentatonic Workshop Series, a GMC "oldie & classic" lesson

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pentatonic-workshop-level1-caged-format-timing-exercises/

Posted by: Adrian Figallo Jul 25 2011, 07:18 PM

it will be nice to se your playing, maybe could you record a video to show us?
at least the metallica solos are around pentatonic scales, so that's a great advice, you have to learn em or not really, but the fastest way is to learn them.

Posted by: Azzaboi Jul 25 2011, 08:20 PM

It doesn't really matter how long your've played but more how much your practiced (and by practice, means also correcting any bad habits). It's the bad habits which slow you down and get you stuck, half the time you don't even know you have them.

I would suggest, focusing on one hand at a time, there's already quite a bit going on, so break it down. Make sure you however sync both hands up, as this is the most important to get clean timed playing, else your'll just become a sloppy player (one hand is normally a lot faster than the other, keeping them at the same level but still improving both is the challenge).

Slow down there and practice miniumizing the movement with both hands specially the picking. You want less distance = more speed with control, rather than trying to pick as fast as possible and have the pick fly across the room or it sounding like a mess. Work on the angle of attack, using just the tip of the pick, etc.

Box scales are great to learn, remember a couple, get them down, then play backwards and forwards in patterns across a few strings or more staying in those scales, then add some more scales and extend the scales to escape the box! You can make your own solos around them and find that everything you play is pretty much based around the same. This makes playing actual solos so much quicker to pick up and jam. Remember your still focusing on also miniumizing the distance, if the fingers are flicking away too much you much control it before it happens (afterwards is too late). Work on finger independency exercises helps out here and your hammer-on / pull-offs.

Practice, practice, practice, also mix it up - don't stay with the same stuff! Get something down nicely, move on (don't stick just with things you already know else you won't improve). Stuck on something for a while? also move on (practice something else like it, even if it's harder and then come back, your'll find it might help a lot). Keep on moving, most of all enjoy it! Playing the guitar is spos to be playing don't suck all the fun out.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 26 2011, 05:57 AM

You already received some amazing feedback here. I would like to add that you could make a list of the techniques that you need to work to play the music/songs that you want to play. Then group some exercises or guitar lesson for every tehcnique and create your own guitar routine. Practice it every day the same amount of time and you'll see a great improvement soon.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jul 26 2011, 09:49 AM

Of course, even if it looks like the shameless plug we all have been laughing at from time to time you could take the advice above, put it into practice and note your progress using what you'll find in the following link hope it's helpful

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=39506

Posted by: ShredNChunk Jul 26 2011, 06:47 PM

Hey all

Such great response to my thread, thanks a BUNCH!

I don't really know where to begin. I will try to cover as much ground and address as many points as possible.

Here goes:

For those of you who want me to record something. Is there anything particular you'd like me to play? The things im confident with, or the things i suck at? Or maybe a bit of both? You basicly just want me to record myself Guitar-center-noodling?

I mentioned mouth of war (solo) and psychosocial (solo) as my goals, but that is not my short term goals, thats just the skill level, where i would be satisfied and say "I did it".

Basically though, i just want to be ABLE to play those solos. Don't know if that makes sense. I want to have the tools available in my toolbox, that would be required to play these solos, because then i know there is no limit as to what to play (in my genre).

But as i just mentioned, thats where i want to be some day. I don't have any short term goals as of now, i hope that maybe i could find them, during this conversation with you guys.

If i should mention something i'm pretty good at, its riffing. I can easily play Battery, Master of puppets (With downstrokes \m/) and all the other classics, and they do sound authentic to me. But as soon as i try something shred-while, i am totally lost.

I have this dreaded feeling, that i'm somehow too late to the party. I picked up the guitar at age 16 and im 31 now. I should be a guitar god, but somehow i just missed out on the period where i'd have my best progress. Now im here, 31 years old with a career, wife, kids (im blessed with that though), but still suck at soloinig/leading/shredding the axe.

I do know my way around the thoery. I know the pentatonic boxes, and i can hear how i should play to play in Major and Minor etc. I just don't have the mechanical skills to actually use it for something worthwhile.

Bottom line is, i pretty much need the mechanical skills for shredding. You know, like the guitar-show-off at guitar center, wailing with a dimebag signature guitar.

My fingers feel way too slow, way too unsynchronized to do anything good. I look at them and say "Come on!! You can do it", but then they tie into a knot.


Help me obi va... Guitarmasterclass.net. Your my only hope.

Posted by: dark dude Jul 26 2011, 07:00 PM

Hahaha, that last line

Yeah, things you're good at and things you're rubbish at would be a good mix.

The finger speed can be solved with exercises, but try get that vid done ASAP and then we can pile more advice on, haha.

Posted by: Azzaboi Jul 26 2011, 07:56 PM

Your just answered the question yourself, you know where your stuck so your well on your way
Now is that the fretboard hand or the picking hand or both?

"tie into a knot" - you need to work of Finger Independency - this is practicing to 'unglue' each finger from the others and will give your fingers more confidents nailing those notes even if a finger twister and in turn way more speed in your fretboard hand. To do this you must practice keeping each finger in position at all times hovering just over the corresponding fret, when they come down get it to land just behind the metal fret (rather than anywhere) and play on your finger tips (most of the time) as this builds accurracy, when they come up ensure none of the fingers flick away or get to far from the fretboard (keep them as close as possible comfortably). Remember most important to keep the hands relaxed, minimise distance and pressure.

The fretboard wood doesn't actually need to be touched to sound a clean note, it's just a comfort. Make sure your applying just enough pressure, but no more, the finger can touch the wood if you like, but don't force into it.

Make sure your fretboard thumb stays in position too - theres' thumb in the middle of the fretboard for speed and stretchs (practice here) and also the thumb hooked just over the top (for extra support when bending, vibratos, etc). However, don't rely on your thumb for support, it will slow you down, it's just there, apply no pressure to the back of the neck. Todds trick to remove the thumb completely helps after a while if you find this is slowing you down. My thumb always use to love creeping up the back of the neck to the top and I was applying lots of unnecessary pressure to both the fingers and the thumb.

Use scales or looped licks, and mix up different patterns for the fingering. Practice forwards and backwards, ensure all fingers are used, even leave a finger out, stretchs, practice hammer-ons and pull-offs, etc. The fingers are subborn but can be retrained with practice, practice slowly and cleanly, on a clean tone so you can really hear out each note. Do lots of different exercises across the strings as well as up and down them (till at least the 15th fret as the fingering changes position and some areas of the fretboard might be harder to play than others).

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jul 26 2011, 08:01 PM

Always take things slow - I feel that in this moment you are more than overwhelmed with info and you'll soon find yourself in a little rut regarding what you have to choose from all the suggestions you have received. What I can tell you is start slow just like the seasons, if winter would come right after the burning summer sun without the autumn to create a transition, we'd probably have a lot of trouble adapting. So, let your body adapt to what you're trying to make it do, give it the proper time and it will reward you with what you want to achieve.

With this in mind, start by organizing your time in order to reach all the points stated above by this amazing team that we all are at GMC both students and instructors!

Posted by: ShredNChunk Jul 26 2011, 08:10 PM

Yeah, im pretty sure that i definately need to work on my finger independency. Are there any good and fun lessons covering that? It's definately my fretting hand that is causing me problem, since my picking hand can complete the kessel run in less than 11 parsec. But also the synching between the fretting hand and the picking hand, but i guess the fretting hand does require more work in general, and i have the understanding that the synching develops, as i develop the fretting hand (long sentence i know)

I will see what i can do about recording myself, since i don't ow a web cam. All i have is my photography camera, with video recording capabilities, but i'd need to record the sound by itself, and fuse them together later. I'll see what i can figure out.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 26 2011, 08:15 PM

You are in the right place I'm Todd and I do a Video Chat Lesson each Saturday @ 5PM EST and we focus quite a bit on speed, precision, shredding, endurance, lead playing etc. We usually work up some semi crazy chops and then play them as a lead to a backing track. All in under two hours So if you can, stop by! I'm a bit of a ShredNChunk Nut Myself! Doodle doodle, chunk chunk, fast doodle, chunk chunk, pinch harmonic. That about covers it.


Here are the solo/chops we worked on last time with the backing track.
http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/signumcrucis-guitarmasterclass

And here are the notes for that day. More to come

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=34550&view=findpost&p=534649

Posted by: Mike RR24 Jul 26 2011, 08:15 PM

I do this a lot. I have trouble with finger independence myself. I struggle to keep my little finger from swaying way off the fret board cause I'm not used to using it. I also use a guitar finger exerciser that's actualy seeming to help build strength in my fingers helping me to better control them. Someday's I do better and somedays like yesterday I get so frustrated I had to put down my axe and take a break for a couple hours as I was really feeling disturbed and angry and frustrated. It helps me to read these forums when I get like that cause I know I have support here. I know there is no one way to get faster and more acurate without practicing. Some times I want to do it now and I don't like waiting. Sorry I'm rambling but thanks for hearing me.

Posted by: ShredNChunk Jul 26 2011, 08:16 PM

Yes, and that is exactly my goal with this cry for help. I need to figure out WHAT exactly i have to play. Since the possibilities is overwhelming. I want to know exactly what to play next time i pick up my guitar, and i want to be sure that whatever it is, it is something that brings me closer to my ultimate goal. I don't want to pick up the guitar and play Enter Sandman for the 50 millionth time, or play unfocused, and settle for something that i already CAN play, so i dont sound like shit for an entire hour. I need help figuring out a practice routine (that suits me). And i pretty much like to base that practice routine on existing lessons from this site.

Posted by: Azzaboi Jul 26 2011, 08:27 PM

If your finger(s), normally the pinkie, is flicking up too much, you need to learn to stop it before it happens (if it's already happened then it's too late to correct). Also fingers tend to glue to each other (a finger might be coming up or down with another) and you have to break down that glue. This is a real challenge but comes with practice. Don't rely on one or two exercises to keep practicing thou, you need quite a range of different ones, including finger twister exercises.

I tried to start explaining it here, but don't think I did a good job getting it across, but might still help:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=39458

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jul 26 2011, 08:34 PM

You ain't rambling mate I totally understand and agree because I have some days when I can't focus on getting things right either. That's the time when your mind has a predispositions towards something else as you are a human being, you can't do the same stuff over and over again - your subconscious would like you to do something different guitar is also about simple things, beautiful chords and simple melodies for instance... Give these a try and you might have a nice surprise

Posted by: ShredNChunk Jul 27 2011, 01:02 PM

Guys. Appreciate your feedback. Was really great of you to take your time, giving me some input.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but i'd really appreciate some Lessons that would cover my needs (Finger independancy and accuracy, hand to hand synchronization). I have trouble picking 1, 2 or 3 lessons, since the choices are so vast

Then i can post back which lessons particularily give me trouble, and which suits my skill level. In the meantime, i will figure out something to get myself recorded. I guess video is crucial, since you want to see my hands while i play.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 27 2011, 01:29 PM

I only just realised your name was ShrednChunk.. I was reading it like ShrednChuck, like a guitar playing Chuck Norris !

I would definitely recommend legato lessons as they will help free up your fingers. (Shameless plug coming up..) I've got a 5 part series on legato, with varying difficulties.. this might be worth you looking at. They also introduce you and hone the basic 3 note per string shapes which can be applied to any scale.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Land-Of-Legato/

I would recommend working on your fretting hand for a while until it's got some independance and dexterity before combining too much synchro work with your right hand. It's easier to progress quicker when you don't overload your brain and hands etc..