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Enforcer-jer Mtp Sessions Thread, yeah this is our place :)
enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 08:23 PM) *
ok gotcha. On to the Aeolian one then.



I follow this except for the b7 again.

Lets use A for example. Why isnt this called "A minor dominant 7"?

do we just call it minor once if there are 2 minors in the chord?


Ok, think like this:

You know, when we talk about a minor chord, we would surely expect a minor 3rd isnt it? Also when we say the minor scale, we expect that to have a minor3rd with minor6th and minor7th if this is a natural minor. So, when you talk about a Amin7 chord, you expect to have a minor 3rd and a 7th by default. Because this is the natural way. When you have a maj7 there, that is an unusual thing so you must write there, yeah this is a minor chord but it has a major 7! So you write: Amin/maj7. Why dont you call it A minor dominant 7? that is because it is the same thing to say A minor minor7.

I know that is a little different from the major point of view, because when you see a major chord you expect that 7th must be a major 7th in the natural way, and you tend to write it like G7. But you cant because to write a major chord with a minor 7th like Gmin7 that way. But this is impossible since you write Gminor with a minor 7th that way. So they chose to write it like Gmaj7 for the major chord with a major7th and G7 the major chord with min7th conventionnaly to prevent misunderstanding.

The reasoning here can be a little confusing, but just try to remember this

minor 3rd and minor 7th is called a Xmin7 chord
minor 3rd and major 7th is called a Xmin/maj7 chord
major 3rd and minor 7th is called a X7 chord
major 3rd and major 7th is called a Xmaj7 chord

Hope this enlightened the subject a little. Keep the questions coming, I'll answer all of that within my knowledge...

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jer
Feb 3 2009, 07:48 PM
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ok, I think I follow you here.

So, where were we?

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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 07:51 PM
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Ok, we were talking about finding native chords to modes ok? Now we have chords for Ionian / Mixolydian / Aeolian... We have Dorian / Phrygian / Lydian / Locrian left smile.gif

Ok, we were talking about finding native chords to modes ok? Now we have chords for Ionian / Mixolydian / Aeolian... We have Dorian / Phrygian / Lydian / Locrian left smile.gif

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jer
Feb 3 2009, 08:04 PM
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I used A for the examples here.

CODE
Dorian     1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7    
  Ok, the b3 tells me its minor. So lets say     Amin7.



Phrygian  1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7  
OK here we have the same thing…       Amin7



Lydian     1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
  Hmmm… all major here….                           Amaj7  



Locrian    1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7            
There is that dim 5th…                Amin7/dim5

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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 09:04 PM) *
I used A for the examples here.

CODE
Dorian     1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7    
  Ok, the b3 tells me its minor. So lets say     Amin7.



Phrygian  1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7  
OK here we have the same thing…       Amin7



Lydian     1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
  Hmmm… all major here….                           Amaj7  



Locrian    1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7            
There is that dim 5th…                Amin7/dim5


all correct. Just remeber that locrians diminished property is more important than its being minor or major. Here is your priority list:

Root is the most important thing in a chord.
Next comes the 5th. If 5th is not a perfect 5th, it changes all the feeling the chord. You have 3 options in that. Regular fifth, diminished fifth (noted dim5 or 5-) or augmented 5th (noted aug5 or 5+) Note that if you dont play the regular 5th, it is ok. Even in some playing in extended chords like 13th that requires 7 strings in guitar, you can omit the 5th and play it in 6 stringed guitar. That is because because of some physics reasons about string vibration, you already have the note of the perfect 5th in root note already.

After that you have 3rd. When you have a regular perfect 5th on your chord, minor 3rd/major 3rd in a chord defines everything.

After that comes 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th...

Lets list the chords of the modes:

Ionian : maj7
Dorian : min7
Phyrigian : min7
Lydian: maj7
Mixolydian: dominant7
Aeolian: min7
Locrian: dim5

so the best way to play these scales are with the backing of these chords... When there is some chord progression, you actually have to choose the right mode... Is that ok?

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jer
Feb 3 2009, 09:03 PM
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yeah, that makes sense.



So, lets say I was playing this chord progression.


E5 D5 A5 B5

We have the notes E, F#, A, B, D (yes?)

And we determine that the key of the progression is Emin. (starts on E, and Emin has E, F#, G, A, B, C, D)

So we can solo in Emin. We know that.

If we look at E Aeolian and the sequence of modes, does that mean that we could also use these?

E Aeolian
F# Locrian
G Ionian
A Dorian
B Phrygian
C Lydian
D Mixolydian

Since all 7 of those have the same notes?




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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 09:03 PM
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Ok, thats ok for today I think. I will write comments on your videos, what do you plan on doing tonight?

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American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
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jer
Feb 3 2009, 09:12 PM
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oh man, at least tell me if I'm right on that last post.

tongue.gif

Tonight.

20 min - Tantarella - I plan on adding in the next part for this.

20 min - AIC - I'm not consistent enough at the -30 bpm so I'm not sure if speeding it up will do any good.

20 min - trooper - I cant seem to get that 1st repeating run down at even half speed. And I cant find where in the beat it starts. I posted this earlier. Got any ideas here? How would you finger that? How do I count into it? I dont want to burn up multiple nights not getting anywhere if there is something I am missing.

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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 10:03 PM) *
yeah, that makes sense.



So, lets say I was playing this chord progression.


E5 D5 A5 B5

We have the notes E, F#, A, B, D (yes?)

And we determine that the key of the progression is Emin. (starts on E, and Emin has E, F#, G, A, B, C, D)

So we can solo in Emin. We know that.

If we look at E Aeolian and the sequence of modes, does that mean that we could also use these?

E Aeolian
F# Locrian
G Ionian
A Dorian
B Phrygian
C Lydian
D Mixolydian

Since all 7 of those have the same notes?


sorry buddy you added this just before I wrote my own post biggrin.gif


Ok, we will use Emin that is for sure, but we have to think like this:

E5 D5 A5 B5


We will play E aeolian when E5 is there, then we will start to think like D Mixolydian while D5 is played, When A5 is played we will think like we have a A dorian, and with B5 we'll think like we are soloing in B Phrygian. Yes, notes are the same but think like our root is constantly changing with chord changes. Ofcourse when we do that, it means we are playing in an extremely theoretical way. You can keep this simple, you can use Emin over the whole chord progression but try to play notes that have some kind of relation with root notes of progressing chords(like 3rd 5th etc) but in related modes...

You know, there is no certain formula to play a good solo, and music is an art not maths, so you play with your heart while improvising but you need to follow this kind of rules to keep things more secure and simple.

Ok, I believe for tonight you'll notice you are playing AIC more consistently, solo for trooper will need you to play it as slow as you can possibly. But you'll speed up on this faster than other exercises. I have to check fingerings for that, can you give me the bar number for the parts you have problems? Its ok for tantarella...

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jer
Feb 3 2009, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE
We will play E aeolian when E5 is there, then we will start to think like D Mixolydian while D5 is played, When A5 is played we will think like we have a A dorian, and with B5 we'll think like we are soloing in B Phrygian. Yes, notes are the same but think like our root is constantly changing with chord changes. Ofcourse when we do that, it means we are playing in an extremely theoretical way. You can keep this simple, you can use Emin over the whole chord progression but try to play notes that have some kind of relation with root notes of progressing chords(like 3rd 5th etc) but in related modes...

You know, there is no certain formula to play a good solo, and music is an art not maths, so you play with your heart while improvising but you need to follow this kind of rules to keep things more secure and simple.


Yep, I'm with ya 100%. Thats what I think too. And thats what I meant by the mode choices I used.

QUOTE
solo for trooper will need you to play it as slow as you can possibly. But you'll speed up on this faster than other exercises. I have to check fingerings for that, can you give me the bar number for the parts you have problems?


Bar 94

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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 10:21 PM
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ok, in bar 94, you have a bending rock cliché, I would play this by placing my middle finger on 14th fret on G string, place my index to 12th fret in B string, and bend the 14th up to place play the 12th on B and using my ring play the 15th fret on B string. Another way to play that (especially if you have hard time bending the string up to right note) using index finger to fret 12th fret on B, use your ring on 14th fret on G string and bend with the help of middle finger and play the 15th fret on B string with the pinky. Its up to you to choose biggrin.gif

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Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
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jer
Feb 3 2009, 10:37 PM
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yep, those are the two ways I've been trying it.

A full bend is 2 frets yes?

Bending that note that far and then quickly releasing and getting to the next note at the speed this is at is appearing darn near impossible to me.

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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 11:37 PM) *
yep, those are the two ways I've been trying it.

A full bend is 2 frets yes?

Bending that note that far and then quickly releasing and getting to the next note at the speed this is at is appearing darn near impossible to me.


A full bend is 2 frets, and at full bend 14@G will be unison with 12@B, and one last thing, you dont change your position. Dont take your bend fingers away. Keep them there in the place, use mentioned fingers to play the other notes that is to say:

Put your index to 12@B put your middle and ring to 14@G Pick the G string, bend the 14th@G and keep that there, pick B string (12@B will ring) place your pinky to 15@B(while doing this still keep your other fingers in their place) pick B string (15@B will ring) take your pinky away(string mustnt ring), release the bend(without sound) pick G string bend the 14th, pick B string (12@B will ring) put your pinky at 15th. This is the cycle. Perform that slow, and eventually you'll start to do this in a flashing speed...

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Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


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jer
Feb 3 2009, 11:29 PM
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ok, this will be on the video tonight.

Thanks.

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Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor
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Behringer Dualfex EX2200
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enforcer
Feb 3 2009, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 4 2009, 12:29 AM) *
ok, this will be on the video tonight.

Thanks.

np man glad I could help biggrin.gif

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Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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jer
Feb 4 2009, 05:44 AM
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just did a 15min warmup

beginner strumming/arpeggios
string skipping exercise
Kris' Bending Exercise
Losfer Words

Then I had to stop and put my daughter back to bed....

Then 20 min on Tantarella The video is a couple times at 90bpm then once or twice at the full 120. I find it easier to play at full speed, except for the one part that you see me keep messing up. I have to tack on the last lick and at least I’ll know it all by memory.



20 min on AIC. All at -20 solo only.



Trooper video coming....

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lcsdds
Feb 4 2009, 06:01 AM
Learning Tone Seeker
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Jer,
One suggestion. Anytime you come across a lick like the AIC lick at the end where you make mistakes you need to isolate that portion of the lick and make an excercise out of it. If you are having a tough time with that at -30 then drop just that portion of the lick down to -50 or -60 and loop the lick. Then slowly crank up the speed. What is happening is you are playing the solo great until you get to that part and then you are screwing up. Then you go all the way back to the beginning, start over and screw up again. Isolate just that lick, work it up to speed and THEN play the whole thing through.

Sorry for butting in Can. I'll go to bed now. laugh.gif laugh.gif

Monte

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This post has been edited by lcsdds: Feb 4 2009, 06:08 AM
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jer
Feb 4 2009, 06:51 AM
GMC:er
Posts: 1.889
Joined: 3-September 08
From: Des Moines IA USA
20 min on the trooper. Lots of talking in the video. You’ll see what’s happening.




hmmmmm, this cut off earlier than it was supposed to.... Dont know why. I still have the longer one. Gonna see if I can fix it.



uploading the second part now.

Monte,

Thanks for the input man. That makes a lot of sense. I think (rather I know) that I feel a lot of pressure to get this stuff done. Like its so simple and I shouldnt be taking this long to do it. Maybe its self induced, maybe it isnt, I dont know....

That is making me want to move faster than I think I should.



Part 2 of my trooper video


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enforcer
Feb 4 2009, 12:41 PM
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Posts: 1.202
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From: Istanbul
Ok Bro, I see your problems and now we will try to solve them...

Firstly there is no hurry, really, dont feel you should end something by the end of a limited time, cos there is no such time, I seriously dont think I will be selected for the next round, not because of our problems here, but because of my own technical flaws, so we are comfy here, and we've got lots of time.

So in AIC exercise: The problem with inconsistencies in -30bpm are solely psycological in my guess. On -20 bpm on the other hand there is a lackof speed problem at the end(but slightly really), so why dont you play this with -25bpm? Try this like the following: -30 bpm 2 times(flawless in a row), -25 bpm 3-4 times(f.i.a.r), -20 bpm 4-5 times(f.i.a.r), -15bpm. You can speed up when acquiring indicated flawlessness (is that a word?) levels biggrin.gif

For the trooper: Ok buddy, you are doing the move correctly. Yeah you need time to do this, you see, you tell me that you need to think about every move that you are doing in this. This is right. This is right way to go. Yeah you are walking now, but how does a baby learns about running? Think of this, while you learn walking step by step, you run instinctively with time. You dont learn running. But get there by walking.

About rhythmic issues, one of the greatest reasons we are working with maiden songs are the strong bass guitar feel. To get the right feeling you need to listen to bass beats, not to the drums which gives you a very wide feeling of time when played slowly. Try this you'll feel the difference. To memorize this part you can use mumbling, try to listen to solo without playing it with your guitar, replicate it by singing it (mumbling is a better word here) Get it in your head, try to play that.

About triplets and timing, one cant teach you how to understand that nation, you have to feel it all by yourself, but I prepared a gpro file. You can listen to it and notice.

Second guitar pro exercise is an exercise for you, try to play that with metronome on. That will help you understand the timing feel with quarter and 8th triplets and normal quarter and 8th notes...




hope this helps, and cheer up, really, you may think you are getting there slowly, but its better to get there slowly and solidly rather than in a haste and with wounds. You are doing great, we all have up and down times from time to time, just remember how suddently you started to play losfer words in speed...

I see you are really trying to get there, and personally I am doing all my best to get you there, and with this we have no other choice but getting there buddy, so its just time...

Later man,

Can smile.gif

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Attached File(s)
Attached File  note_durations_on_a_constant_bar_in_a_constant_speed.gp5 ( 2.33K ) Number of downloads: 101
Attached File  duration_exercise.gp5 ( 2.62K ) Number of downloads: 108
 


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jer
Feb 4 2009, 02:06 PM
GMC:er
Posts: 1.889
Joined: 3-September 08
From: Des Moines IA USA
QUOTE
Firstly there is no hurry, really, dont feel you should end something by the end of a limited time, cos there is no such time, I seriously dont think I will be selected for the next round, not because of our problems here, but because of my own technical flaws, so we are comfy here, and we've got lots of time.


Gotcha. OK. If you do get chosen we can break for a while and come back to it when you have time if you are willing. Well, you would get a break. Not me. I need to keep going!

QUOTE
So in AIC exercise: The problem with inconsistencies in -30bpm are solely psycological in my guess. On -20 bpm on the other hand there is a lackof speed problem at the end(but slightly really), so why dont you play this with -25bpm? Try this like the following: -30 bpm 2 times(flawless in a row), -25 bpm 3-4 times(f.i.a.r), -20 bpm 4-5 times(f.i.a.r), -15bpm. You can speed up when acquiring indicated flawlessness (is that a word?) levels


Got it.

QUOTE
For the trooper: Ok buddy, you are doing the move correctly. Yeah you need time to do this, you see, you tell me that you need to think about every move that you are doing in this. This is right. This is right way to go. Yeah you are walking now, but how does a baby learns about running? Think of this, while you learn walking step by step, you run instinctively with time. You dont learn running. But get there by walking.


So we just keep working at it slowly and surely building up speed? Eventually I'll be running? Or is there some particular line that we cross? Does that make sense? I'm not sure what I am saying.

QUOTE
About rhythmic issues, one of the greatest reasons we are working with maiden songs are the strong bass guitar feel. To get the right feeling you need to listen to bass beats, not to the drums which gives you a very wide feeling of time when played slowly. Try this you'll feel the difference. To memorize this part you can use mumbling, try to listen to solo without playing it with your guitar, replicate it by singing it (mumbling is a better word here) Get it in your head, try to play that.


Got it. I'll do that.

QUOTE
About triplets and timing, one cant teach you how to understand that nation, you have to feel it all by yourself, but I prepared a gpro file. You can listen to it and notice.

Second guitar pro exercise is an exercise for you, try to play that with metronome on. That will help you understand the timing feel with quarter and 8th triplets and normal quarter and 8th notes...


OK. Honestly I jus thavent tried triplets enough. I have looked at triplet exercises before and didnt "get it" right away so I quit. Then more recently others have tried explaining them to me as well. I listened but didnt put it into practice immediately. I just need to stop and dig in. Its not going to come to me automatically is it? smile.gif

QUOTE
hope this helps, and cheer up, really, you may think you are getting there slowly, but its better to get there slowly and solidly rather than in a haste and with wounds. You are doing great, we all have up and down times from time to time, just remember how suddently you started to play losfer words in speed...

I see you are really trying to get there, and personally I am doing all my best to get you there, and with this we have no other choice but getting there buddy, so its just time...


Yeah. No worries. I'm in a good place with it all. I just need to forget about time. I've spent less than 45 minutes on that run in the Trooper. Am I expecting myself to be able to play like Dave and Adrian after only 45 min? Thats just plain unrealistic. I need to calm down about time deadlines and just keep going. It'll fall into place in time.

You are doing great. Thanks for working with me. I appreciate it a lot.

I'm not whining about this. Or getting down on myself. Just sharing my feelings so you know where I am coming from on the inside. I figure it'll help you understand me better.

I'm up for more theory today if you have time. No worries if not. IF we have any uncovered stuf from yesterday lets clean that up first. Did we answer everything?

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net


Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

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--------------------
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Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist
Jackson DK2M
ESP LTD MH-400
ESP LTD EC-1000
Ibanez Custom S-Series
Martin 001 Acoustic

Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)
Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp
Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor
Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor
Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard
Behringer Dualfex EX2200
Behinger Stereo EQ
Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade
Line 6 Floor Board
Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp
Nady UHF Wireless


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