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GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ Mary Friedman Declares Sweeps "lame"
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 25 2014, 02:13 PM
Here we go again 
Not to say he doesn't make some valid points, because he does Just a bit more of the "Pot calling the kettle black" syndrome. I expect his next interview will be about how he now finds all of Metal to be "lame" and he's going to start a Fusion/Polka band instead
http://geargods.net/video/marty-friedman-doesnt-care-for-your-sweep-picking/
Posted by: TeoWulf Jun 25 2014, 04:59 PM
Not to say he doesn't make some valid points, because he does Just a bit more of the "Pot calling the kettle black" syndrome. I expect his next interview will be about how he now finds all of Metal to be "lame" and he's going to start a Fusion/Polka band instead He is 100% right. Sweeppicking arpeggios up and down is no more than a trick, and it's actually very boring, because we've all heard it a thousand times already. And I'd rather listen to polka fusion than yet another metal project.
Posted by: Mertay Jun 25 2014, 06:26 PM
Its a technique not only used on guitar, think piano or violin...
But what I noticed is its considered something pretty cool among beginners, like -DUDE CAN YOU DO SWEEP? 
Overly fast it does become a "woop" sound thats for sure but work hard and everything can sound like that
Posted by: bleez Jun 25 2014, 06:51 PM
I feel like Ive just been scolded by Marty Friedman! Its a bit like Homer simpson telling you not to eat a dounut.
each to their own. Its a cool video but I'll still be in my bedroom for the next five years trying to play stuff as fast as possible 
Just like Marty did
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 25 2014, 06:57 PM
I agree totally with the point Marty is making in the video. I think the accompanying press deliberately made his stance sound more confrontational (hey, it gets people talking about it) but what he means is it's just a technique to be incorporated into music, not to be repeated up/down for whole sections of songs.
I also try to incorporate arpeggios (notice that we should focus on the use of arpeggios, not the sweep techniques itself) into my solos as musically as possible. I'll use part of an arpeggio to link to another lick in pretty much the same way Marty demonstrates in the vid. In fact, it would have been Marty's playing that got me into playing in this sort of 'cascading' sort of way, tumbling over the beat and letting things flow instead of setting up a load of sweeps starting from point A and lasting precisely until point Z.
He's just telling people that they'd be doing themselves more of a service if they used sweeping musically, not to cut/past loads of sweep shapes and call it a solo.
And yes, Cacophony............ but to be fair it was mainly the harmonised melody sections that had sweep arpeggios sections because the neo classical thing was all the rage but their actual solos still mixed it up and his soloing back then was still indicative of his current beliefs about arpeggio use.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 26 2014, 12:02 AM
As I mentioned previously, I"m not saying he's not making valid points. To be clear, he IS making some valid points. My post was intended just to point out the reoccurring hypocrisy Mr. Friedman seems to be going through of late. As anyone who's heard his body of work can tell you, he's more than guilty of being a bit of a sweep/arpeggio/scale nut, especially in his cacophony days as well as on his Solo albums.
You are on your own though as far as listening to polka fusion
Well said!!
It's something that many (NOT "ALL" OF COURSE, BUT MANY...) beginners become obsessed with. It's almost like a stepping stone/badge of honor on the way to becoming a skilled player "Can you sweep yet?"Personally, I avoided learning sweeps. I rarely use them. It is possible to use them well, and they are as valid a technique as any, I was just never that in to it and i've heard it done so much, and often so badly, that it sorta turned me off to it.
But what I noticed is its considered something pretty cool among beginners, like -DUDE CAN YOU DO SWEEP?
Overly fast it does become a "woop" sound thats for sure but work hard and everything can sound like that
BINGO!!!
My point exactly. Marty telling folks not to sweep is about like Marty telling folks not to play instrumental music (remember that from last time?) I feel like Ive just been scolded by Marty Friedman! Its a bit like Homer simpson telling you not to eat a dounut.each to their own. Its a cool video but I'll still be in my bedroom for the next five years trying to play stuff as fast as possible
Just like Marty did I agree
But again, per my first post, I wasn't asserting that he isn't making valid points. He is making a valid point. My assertion was simply that Marty has become a bit of HUGE hypocrite of late. Having listened to his early work, solo work, and band work, It's really hard not to notice the fact that he's used/abused/overused sweeps/arpeggios/scales to an INSANE degree. So to hear him essentially telling everyone else to spare him and skip all that, again smacks of when he told people to stop playing instrumental music
I also try to incorporate arpeggios (notice that we should focus on the use of arpeggios, not the sweep techniques itself) into my solos as musically as possible. I'll use part of an arpeggio to link to another lick in pretty much the same way Marty demonstrates in the vid. In fact, it would have been Marty's playing that got me into playing in this sort of 'cascading' sort of way, tumbling over the beat and letting things flow instead of setting up a load of sweeps starting from point A and lasting precisely until point Z.
He's just telling people that they'd be doing themselves more of a service if they used sweeping musically, not to cut/past loads of sweep shapes and call it a solo.
And yes, Cacophony............ but to be fair it was mainly the harmonised melody sections that had sweep arpeggios sections because the neo classical thing was all the rage but their actual solos still mixed it up and his soloing back then was still indicative of his current beliefs about arpeggio use.
Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 26 2014, 01:25 AM
and next he will say Paul Gilbert doesn't pick correctly
Posted by: PosterBoy Jun 26 2014, 07:49 AM
When did Marty start playing PRS, did I miss the announcement?
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 26 2014, 08:44 AM
I didn't get that from this video, maybe I blanked it out.
But I don't think Marty is telling people not to sweep (because he is clearly using economy picking / sweeping to play those short examples) he is telling people not to overuse it in a boring up/down/up/down way.Just running through arpeggios from top to bottom is not as musical as using them as part of a phrase. That was the ultimate point he was getting to. Maybe he laid it on a bit thick to get his point across but it gets people listening and I still agree with him.
So, to try and clarify, he's not calling sweep picking 'lame', he's calling what many people do with sweep picking 'lame'.
Just like I wouldn't call alternate picking 'lame', but I would call overusing alternate picking and playing nothing but scalar runs 'lame.' But then, next thing you know I'm being quoted out of context as saying that 'ALTERNATE PICKING IS LAME - DON'T USE IT' which is not accurate.
I do think you have a point with his previous remark about instrumental music maybe but on this occasion I think he's being portrayed as saying something that he isn't.
Posted by: Mertay Jun 26 2014, 08:51 AM
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 26 2014, 01:28 PM
Very true he's saying what most people do with it is a bit lame.
I gotta again point out though, the pot calling the kettle black. Per his instructional vid which I included, as well has wads of solos on his solo albums, not to mention his work in Cacophony and Megadeth, he's been the guilty party in terms of using the very approach he's condemning so often that it just smacks of hypocrisy IMHO 
Thus my original post.
The other bit I mentioned is from a previous interview that got wads of press where he said that players should avoid making instrumental music. In the same breath, he promoted his new instrumental album.
I appreciate Marty as a player. I just don't appreciate his recent "do as I say not as I do" approach. Thus calling him out on it.
But I don't think Marty is telling people not to sweep (because he is clearly using economy picking / sweeping to play those short examples) he is telling people not to overuse it in a boring up/down/up/down way.Just running through arpeggios from top to bottom is not as musical as using them as part of a phrase. That was the ultimate point he was getting to. Maybe he laid it on a bit thick to get his point across but it gets people listening and I still agree with him.
So, to try and clarify, he's not calling sweep picking 'lame', he's calling what many people do with sweep picking 'lame'.
Just like I wouldn't call alternate picking 'lame', but I would call overusing alternate picking and playing nothing but scalar runs 'lame.' But then, next thing you know I'm being quoted out of context as saying that 'ALTERNATE PICKING IS LAME - DON'T USE IT' which is not accurate.
I do think you have a point with his previous remark about instrumental music maybe but on this occasion I think he's being portrayed as saying something that he isn't.
Posted by: wrk Jun 26 2014, 02:30 PM
Marty always was an unconventional player and these straight up/down high speed sweep arpeggios is not what he is particularly know for. Of course if you search you will find within his lifetime repertoire, but it’s far away of being “used/abused/overused .. to an INSANE degree”.
Even if so, if everything what people say/do throughout life has to be coherent, without the right to evolve and think/act differently today or simply adapt to todays standard .. then everything and everybody is hypocrite.
Btw, moderate words are preferably used in any discussion, if it's supposed to be a discussion(?) .. feels a tiny bit like bashing actually. Especially when harsh words are repeatedly used multiple times against the same person. I don’t understand what are your intentions of doing so?
So yeah, here we go again ..
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 26 2014, 04:51 PM
Thus calling him out on it.I don't mind T-Master, you don't have to defend your opinions to me.. these discussions are fun !
Posted by: klasaine Jun 26 2014, 06:00 PM
I like Marty Friedman.
I don't dig his music but I like him. He doesn't censor himself too much. He's just talking. He doesn't care what a bunch of guitar players think about his comments and he doesn't 'draft' every answer so that folks feelings don't get hurt. Too many artists censor themselves so much that they have virtually zero personality in an interview and never really say anything about anything - everything is awesome, everything is great. No! Give me Ginger Baker any day!
I don't really like Bruce Springsteen much but I never miss an interview - he's got great insights and is very entertaining in print and in person.
Like with the 'don't do instrumental music' quote, so it goes with sweeping ...
If you're gonna do it, think hard about exactly what it is that you're trying to accomplish musically with the technique (or genre) - ?
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 26 2014, 09:05 PM
I'm a big fan of his playing so I gotta say I stand behind my statement of him abusing the very thing he's talking about. I've listened to every album he's played on and yes he's quite guilty of it. But he admits in another interview that he is basically a hypocrite so at least he admits it
Also, not saying he doesn't have the right to say whatever he wants, he has every right Just calling it like I see it. Not trying to bash, just saying my bit To all those who are fans of Marty as a player or person, please do not take offense.
After all, this is just a post in a forum. The good news is that it's doing what forum posts should do, generating response/interest
Even if so, if everything what people say/do throughout life has to be coherent, without the right to evolve and think/act differently today or simply adapt to todays standard .. then everything and everybody is hypocrite.
Btw, moderate words are preferably used in any discussion, if it's supposed to be a discussion(?) .. feels a tiny bit like bashing actually. Especially when harsh words are repeatedly used multiple times against the same person. I don’t understand what are your intentions of doing so?
So yeah, here we go again ..
Well said
I think you should work in PR, maybe for Marty I agree all the way that the best take away from all this is to be thoughtful when approaching writing/playing. I don't dig his music but I like him. He doesn't censor himself too much. He's just talking. He doesn't care what a bunch of guitar players think about his comments and he doesn't 'draft' every answer so that folks feelings don't get hurt. Too many artists censor themselves so much that they have virtually zero personality in an interview and never really say anything about anything - everything is awesome, everything is great. No! Give me Ginger Baker any day!
I don't really like Bruce Springsteen much but I never miss an interview - he's got great insights and is very entertaining in print and in person.
Like with the 'don't do instrumental music' quote, so it goes with sweeping ...
If you're gonna do it, think hard about exactly what it is that you're trying to accomplish musically with the technique (or genre) - ?
Posted by: wrk Jun 27 2014, 11:52 AM
Also, not saying he doesn't have the right to say whatever he wants, he has every right
Just calling it like I see it. Not trying to bash, just saying my bit To all those who are fans of Marty as a player or person, please do not take offense. After all, this is just a post in a forum. The good news is that it's doing what forum posts should do, generating response/interest
Well, all right then .. it’s just not in my nature to go hard on the person himself when i don’t agree with what he say.
I guess this is one of the interviews where you base your hypocrite theory on:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/marty-friedman-you-can-pretty-much-say-im-a-hypocrite/
I still think he has valid points to say what he said. To take the hypocrite sentence out of the context and apply it wherever it fits isn’t convincing IMO.
Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 27 2014, 12:00 PM
to say any style, any learned technique, any developed skill is irrelevant is a little on the foolish side .
Almost like discrediting one style of music cause its not your cup of tea , especially when Becker used to use it alot, and quite honestly I really never seen Marty ( as good and influential as he is)use it. Kinda like a young guitar player who hasn't mastered it yet, so he bashes it.
Everything is good in it's place in the proper context( Not saying I am capable of doing that 
)
Posted by: klasaine Jun 27 2014, 12:16 PM
I think you should work in PR, maybe for Marty I agree all the way that the best take away from all this is to be thoughtful when approaching writing/playing.That may actually be his clumsy attempt at saying just that ...
"If you absolutely must play inst music and you must sweep - regardless of what I say - then go for it".
Which is not an unheard of teaching method. Its pretty old school and doesn't work with everybody but it can be an effective pedagogical technique.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 27 2014, 05:33 PM
Yup!!! That's the interview indeed Good find!! I also agree that he is making valid points and that people often overuse/abuse sweeps, just as they might do with alt picking, (been guilty of that myself) and other bits.
Some very spirited discussion in this thread btw which is always welcome
Todd
I guess this is one of the interviews where you base your hypocrite theory on:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/marty-friedman-you-can-pretty-much-say-im-a-hypocrite/
I still think he has valid points to say what he said. To take the hypocrite sentence out of the context and apply it wherever it fits isn’t convincing IMO.
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 27 2014, 07:37 PM
I think a lot of the problem with not only this topic that Marty's brought up, but sweeping in general is:
People are identifying too much with the technique itself: sweeping
and not the musical application that sweeping is applied to, which is:
Arpeggios
A technique, in and of itself, can not be crap or lame. A technique is just a technique.
If guitarists forget the obsession with the damn technique used to play arpeggios and just think about how arpeggios can be used effectively then maybe they'll start thinking of other things instead of walls of BLOOOP, BLOOOOP, BLOOOOP, BLOOOOOP.
Regardless of whether Marty's guilty of a touch of hypocrisy the overall message he is now promoting is solid advice and I'd encourage anyone serious about composing to take it on board and try it out
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 27 2014, 07:39 PM
VERY well said and probably my fave post in this thread so far!!!!
People are identifying too much with the technique itself: sweeping
and not the musical application that sweeping is applied to, which is:
Arpeggios
A technique, in and of itself, can not be crap or lame. A technique is just a technique.
If guitarists forget the obsession with the damn technique used to play arpeggios and just think about how arpeggios can be used effectively then maybe they'll start thinking of other things instead of walls of BLOOOP, BLOOOOP, BLOOOOP, BLOOOOOP.
Regardless of whether Marty's guilty of a touch of hypocrisy the overall message he is now promoting is solid advice and I'd encourage anyone serious about composing to take it on board and try it out
Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 27 2014, 10:24 PM
Regardless of whether Marty's guilty of a touch of hypocrisy the overall message he is now promoting is solid advice and I'd encourage anyone serious about composing to take it on board and try it out
it is not BLOOP,BLOOOP, BLLOOOP
IT'S do do de loodle lidle loodle de de,
sheesh, and you call yourself a teacher
Posted by: Bossie Jun 28 2014, 05:04 AM
I think his message is 'use but not abuse'...
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 28 2014, 09:23 AM
IT'S do do de loodle lidle loodle de de,
No, that's just what yours sound like !
Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 29 2014, 12:16 PM
dang, your right, that's what I am doing wrong, man, what great teacher
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 30 2014, 08:42 AM
And when it comes to picking you want it to sound like
DIDDLY DIDDLY DIDDLY DOOOO
If you can get it sounding like that you're sorted !
Posted by: Bossie Jun 30 2014, 09:18 AM
come on guys;..even ABBA started one of their best songs with a sweep.....
Posted by: klasaine Jun 30 2014, 10:33 AM
In Cali it's "weedly weedly weedly woo" or ... 'Look at me look at me look at me'.
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jun 30 2014, 11:16 AM
Gimme Gimme Gimme ?
That was a keyboard lick (I think) so it's just an arpeggio - no sweep !
Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 30 2014, 11:32 AM
DIDDLY DIDDLY DIDDLY DOOOO
If you can get it sounding like that you're sorted !
Ben, are you sure you know Diddly ?
Posted by: Bossie Jun 30 2014, 03:09 PM
That was a keyboard lick (I think) so it's just an arpeggio - no sweep !
haha true...obviously a big fan
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 30 2014, 11:13 PM
I'm a big fan of ABBA believe it or not. I"m actually planning on making a Metal cover of KNOWING ME KNOWING YOU. My fav ABBA tune.
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 1 2014, 08:20 AM
There's no shame in it... brilliantly good tunes
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 2 2014, 04:42 AM
Well spoken sir!
Posted by: Bossie Jul 2 2014, 02:37 PM
This asks for a collab-ba... 
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