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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Rec Concerns/feedback

Posted by: onetabmat Aug 8 2019, 09:12 PM

Hi guys I will be posting a rec later
its my first rec in about 6 months or so.
the reason is I'm put off by the harshness of the assessments and criticism's.
As much as I understand to have constructive feedback as it's essential to getting better at anything,
I've found that most Rec's I've read on here or had received feedback for myself are over analysed and OTT to the point where the feedback is more damaging than standard constructive criticisms.

I'm posting this on here as it gives other members to maybe voice there feelings about this.

I feel it just needs knocking down a gear and it not being so picky.

there was a rec a few week ago where the tone didn't match up exactly to original lesson,
I mean why would it??? you would have to have the same exact gear to achieve this.

I think it would be fairer if more of the Tutors where assessing than just 3. can we maybe have like a selected Member(jury service) to add to it once a month

It seems that if the Rec isn't 100% like the original its not a good take and made to feel as it should be a carbon clone of the original lesson.

I wouldn't expect anyone to spend more time on a rec than whats needed to play it effectively.
spending weeks polishing a rec take so its perfect is not worth doing IMO,
the only thing I would of learn't is to play that 1 song perfect,and for the amount of effort,time and hassle from assessments
I could of learnt another 2 or 3 REC's.

I don't think its all about quality over quantity and that's what i'm getting back from the feedback.

what are you wanting to see in the REC's ?
it's like you all are looking for different things?
there's alot of responses like ( yea i agree with what such a person is saying)

with the greatest respect please don't take this personally guys, if i didn't voice my concerns then you would be none the wiser and you cant expect to deal with concern if are not aware of any opinons.

This is my personal opinion .
if you have a opinion please contribute.

regards Matt


Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 8 2019, 09:16 PM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns. We are here to help every member of GMC on their personal musical journey. The more open and honest we can all be, the better it is for everyone IMHO. So thanks much for your honesty taking the time to share this with us.


Todd


QUOTE (onetabmat @ Aug 8 2019, 04:12 PM) *
Hi guys I will be posting a rec later
its my first rec in about 6 months or so.
the reason is I'm put off by the harshness of the assessments and criticism's.
As much as I understand to have constructive feedback as it's essential to getting better at anything,
I've found that most Rec's I've read on here or had received feedback for myself are over analysed and OTT to the point where the feedback is more damaging than standard constructive criticisms.

I'm posting this on here as it gives other members to maybe voice there feelings about this.

I feel it just needs knocking down a gear and it not being so picky.

there was a rec a few week ago where the tone didn't match up exactly to original lesson,
I mean why would it??? you would have to have the same exact gear to achieve this.

I think it would be fairer if more of the Tutors where assessing than just 3. can we maybe have like a selected Member(jury service) to add to it once a month

It seems that if the Rec isn't 100% like the original its not a good take and made to feel as it should be a carbon clone of the original lesson.

I wouldn't expect anyone to spend more time on a rec than whats needed to play it effectively.
spending weeks polishing a rec take so its perfect is not worth doing IMO,
the only thing I would of learn't is to play that 1 song perfect,and for the amount of effort,time and hassle from assessments
I could of learnt another 2 or 3 REC's.

I don't think its all about quality over quantity and that's what i'm getting back from the feedback.

what are you wanting to see in the REC's ?
it's like you all are looking for different things?
there's alot of responses like ( yea i agree with what such a person is saying)

with the greatest respect please don't take this personally guys, if i didn't voice my concerns then you would be none the wiser and you cant expect to deal with concern if are not aware of any opinons.

This is my personal opinion .
if you have a opinion please contribute.

regards Matt

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 8 2019, 10:14 PM

The REC Zone can be frustrating for sure. It is brutal, if you want more tame feedback you can just post your video in the forum and the instructors will comment and give advice but the REC Zone is like an examination area. I've had my own issues with it which have been discussed at length.

Watch the video below, it's from https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=54491 thread when the last big changes were made. It might help if you read through the thread and the one after it https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=54577&hl=Grading it may answer some of your questions.

Is always good to put your opinion out there though buddy smile.gif

https://youtu.be/fuYJUVNfo-8


Cheers buddy

Posted by: onetabmat Aug 8 2019, 10:38 PM

Thanks Phil, I’ve read the thread you put on and the video Darius made, I still think it’s needs tweaking abit . The grading since the change has slowly got harsher over the years. There are also less on site mentors to grade than there was .

Posted by: Mertay Aug 8 2019, 11:00 PM

QUOTE (onetabmat @ Aug 8 2019, 09:38 PM) *
...


Aside grading, I felt you need a summery of the given feedbacks to understand and make better use of them. Like; The feedback's are valuable but since you can't make use/focus of all the suggestions at once, you need someone to make an "importance list" to take things step by step.

When I was in music college, I had no idea what the jury spoke after an exam (no feedback). But my teacher took all the feedback and only told me what we should focus on, a GMC instructor can do this for you.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 9 2019, 01:58 PM

Excellent topic!

We are aware that posting on the REC board is a different thing than asking for feedback on the other boards. It can give you stage fright and that is also the purpose.

As for inconsistencies in grading/commenting between instructors - it is a bit 'double edged'. In an ideal world we would all be synced - however just like a real audience, everyone will have different taste and therefore I feel we are still somewhat doing it right.

For you personally I feel that progress wise, REC has been amazing for you - you are definitely going in the right direction. If you still feel the REC format is giving you anxiety I suggest you take a break from it and maybe rely on feedback on the open forum boards instead. As long as you keep playing and learning - it shouldn't not matter much.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Aug 9 2019, 03:54 PM

I personally like to hear the true from the instructors. I'm very ambitious and over the years our instructors feedback made me to become a better player.
I know that I can base on their opinion. They treat our takes with attention and find our mistakes because they care about our playing. They want to help us in the most honest way.
I really need to hear their real opinion about my playing. This is how I work and what make me to progress. You can ask my instructor (Darius Wave) how it looks our mentoring and after this probably you will start to see the "criticisms" from REC with other eyes.



You said "there was a rec a few week ago where the tone didn't match up exactly to original lesson".
Look, from my point of view, instructors have right to put the students to make a quite similar type of tone as in the lesson. Some techniques require to use a particular type of tone. If we not care about this, the benefits from the lesson would be zero.
Each type of lesson have their tone from a reason. Also, using some time trying to match a good tone, it's an awesome training for us. To be honest, looking in REC, I can say that some students are really very generous with the gain amount from their tone and this only help to have the worst translation of the hand dynamics.


I want to mention that my intention is not to defend the instructors or the rules from REC. I just see the things in a different way. smile.gif


Try to turn every criticism in a good thing which will make you stronger and better. Be always aware by your strong points. Music it's a subjective thing and all of us we have different opinions.
Do what makes you to enjoy the playing and learning, listen everybody but take from each person only what you think that is good for you. wink.gif

Posted by: Fran Aug 14 2019, 02:54 PM

Interesting thoughts Matt smile.gif

I'd keep posting those takes at REC board and just take as much pro advice as you can from GMC's instructors. I get your point of practicing 3 different lessons instead of "nailing" just one, and the truth is you can and should do that if that's what makes practice better for you.

Aside from instructor's advice, which is technical, no one judges how a member takes advantage of the different tools the site offers to learn, become a better player or just have plain fun doing this or that. It's a personal journey in which each individual finds what better suits themselves and no one should feel bad whether they get a 3 or a 9 in a REC take. It has the importance that you give it yourself. Maybe you are pushing yourself too hard? I don't know. Just post as many as you wish, take the advice to make your playing better, and keep rocking!

Hope to see many more takes from you and everyone else there at REC. Forget/enjoy the grading. Up to you cool.gif

Posted by: MisterM Aug 14 2019, 03:54 PM

Hi Matt,

I agree.
It’s often frustrating to have an average grade when you feel you’ve given it all.

GMC is a very hard site because the content is more difficult than elsewhere.
Here we go to a higher stage - We ask more than the guitarist who is satisfied with a few covers.
The instructors are tough, but they have worked so hard that they know that anything is possible when you give yourself the means.
I confess that sometimes they don’t remember that they were beginners tongue.gif

Learning the lesson is 10% of the work.
90% work on accuracy, that’s the most difficult and sometimes also the most discouraging because progress is so small sometimes.
I have a lot of lessons and I think I would validate some but I prefer to wait to be sure I have done the best I can

My opinion : You need to improve palm muting and alternate picking before moving on to serious things.
You will become a fast guitarist because the morphology of your hands is very advantageous, don’t worry, you progress very fast

Keep hard work and have fun smile.gif

Posted by: onetabmat Aug 14 2019, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (Fran @ Aug 14 2019, 02:54 PM) *
Interesting thoughts Matt smile.gif

I'd keep posting those takes at REC board and just take as much pro advice as you can from GMC's instructors. I get your point of practicing 3 different lessons instead of "nailing" just one, and the truth is you can and should do that if that's what makes practice better for you.

Aside from instructor's advice, which is technical, no one judges how a member takes advantage of the different tools the site offers to learn, become a better player or just have plain fun doing this or that. It's a personal journey in which each individual finds what better suits themselves and no one should feel bad whether they get a 3 or a 9 in a REC take. It has the importance that you give it yourself. Maybe you are pushing yourself too hard? I don't know. Just post as many as you wish, take the advice to make your playing better, and keep rocking!

Hope to see many more takes from you and everyone else there at REC. Forget/enjoy the grading. Up to you cool.gif


I don't think this is the case,
the last 2 recs I have done have the difficulty rating of 3 (beginners), and yet i'm getting 4 and 5s.

you should
A) change the difficulty tiers
B ) lighten up abit

who is gonna wanna be posting recs? if standards are ridiculously set?

I won't be apart of this community next year if this attitude carrys on.

I get it that my takes need work but i personally think my recs are passable at 6, and i've consulted a few of some
accomplished guitarists and asked there honest opinion and they agree that there is small merit to the graders but its bar is set to high.

I'm not saying that there opinion is wrong i'm disputing the fact that grading system is flawed.

if you have beginner lessons... dont grade them as fully fledged professionals

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2019, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (onetabmat @ Aug 14 2019, 09:16 PM) *
I don't think this is the case,
the last 2 recs I have done have the difficulty rating of 3 (beginners), and yet i'm getting 4 and 5s.

you should
A) change the difficulty tiers
B ) lighten up abit

who is gonna wanna be posting recs? if standards are ridiculously set?

I won't be apart of this community next year if this attitude carrys on.

I get it that my takes need work but i personally think my recs are passable at 6, and i've consulted a few of some
accomplished guitarists and asked there honest opinion and they agree that there is small merit to the graders but its bar is set to high.

I'm not saying that there opinion is wrong i'm disputing the fact that grading system is flawed.

if you have beginner lessons... dont grade them as fully fledged professionals


The difficulty levels are not really set with REC into consideration - they are a very rough guideline to let newcomers know where they can start searching for suitable lessons.

REC is something different - it is your chance to learn to play like a pro and we will comment on everything we can think about - regardless of the lessons' difficulty level.

Having said this - I usually take the lesson's level of difficulty somewhat into consideration when grading (and I often also mention this).

Posted by: onetabmat Aug 14 2019, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Aug 14 2019, 08:43 PM) *
The difficulty levels are not really set with REC into consideration - they are a very rough guideline to let newcomers know where they can start searching for suitable lessons.

REC is something different - it is your chance to learn to play like a pro and we will comment on everything we can think about - regardless of the lessons' difficulty level.

Having said this - I usually take the lesson's level of difficulty somewhat into consideration when grading (and I often also mention this).


Everyone grading these needs to take the difficulty into consideration as this effects what should be expected at that level

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 14 2019, 09:00 PM

Mat,

I've been through a lot with REC, it took me a long time to see the light. A beginners lesson is what it is. It is a lesson that a beginner should be able to play cleanly and accurately, with practise the beginner should be able to come close to the instructor. It's not like the instructor is playing it well because they are a pro, they think it is achievable to play it almost as well as them. Why should a beginner pass with sloppy execution on a level 1 lesson just because they are a beginner?

The execution should be excellent but the piece is much less demanding so as to fit the skills of the beginner.

Think about exams. Let's say the pass rate is 75%. 10-year-olds STILL have to get 75% but the questions are set for their level, 18-year-olds still have to get 75% but the questions are set for their level.

Nobody is expecting 10-year-olds to get 75% in an exam that is set for 18-year-olds but 18-year-olds should get 100% in an exam set for 10-year-olds.

Personally, I still think the judges should use more 1s, 2s and 3s. For example, your current Beginner's Solo take in REC, great effort and trust me, I know how hard that piece is but, I still think they are being generous. Personally, I think a 3 or a 4 maximum BUT, because you've been given one 6, which is effectively a pass, you are going to get disheartened when you next submit a take because you will have improved but you may get a 6 and two 5s, then next time you'll get two 6s and a 5, then you get into the territory of some areas improving and other areas diminshing and again get two 6s and a 5, trust me I've been there, and I'm 100% not critisizing your playing, I'm not the best by any stretch of the imagination but I can still see what is needed in that piece.

My old argument about REC still stands. If someone makes it through a piece from start to finish, well done, in fact well done for even having the balls to enter a take in REC, but if there are a lot of mistakes, poor timing, bad rhythm etc, then it should be a three 2s, at least next time you may get a 3 and two 2s (progress). This prevents false hope but, as Darius said in the video I posted, as a group we are thought of like family, and they don't want to "offend" or "upset" us but, it can be counter-productive giving higher than earned points because despondency sets in as more takes are submitted.

I mean no offence or criticism here (only constructive), and I wish you well in your journey, but if you don't want to be brutally assessed don't enter the REC arena. Keep it in the forum where it will be more mild, less harsh and no points to be concerned about.

Cheers buddy, and don't think about leaving, GMC is much much more than the REC Zone.

Peace

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 14 2019, 10:39 PM

It's always positive to be able to talk about our frustrations and thoughts here on GMC and that's what makes this community special smile.gif I certainly hope you don't decide to leave over rec. It's just one small part of what makes this place so cool. There are wads of lessons on rec that are a bit easier, maybe grab a few that you know you can nail in order to have a few more under your belt. It will give you time to work on the bits that need a bit of work. Then later get back to the really tricky ones, they will always be there smile.gif
Todd

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Aug 15 2019, 01:53 PM

Hi mate! This is an excellent post! Thanks for your feedback.

There is a thread at my personal board called "How do I grade at REC". I'm copying it here:

"Hello GMCers! I copy my criteria for grading at REC here to have it as reference:

I've been thinking on a new approach in order to decide the grade that I'll give to the takes. Kris send me some old grading guidelines that included this topics:

1, Rhythm placement: Overall ability to play in rhythm and keep a steady tempo. This aspect should take into consideration the groove factor of certain lessons such as topics involving shuffle or swing type of rhythm.

2. Cleanness: The cleanness factor evaluates the student's ability to play something with clarity and precision. This is indicative of the overall level of playing as well as the amount of practice of this particular lesson

3. Feel: The feel factor determines if the student shows comfort in the chosen musical piece. Several factors are included in the feel criteria such as rhythm placement, posture and overall lesson execution.

4. Posture: Posture determines if the student is holding the instrument correctly and shows comfort while playing. This criteria should of course take into account the difficulty of the lesson.

5. Sound: The sound factor will grade the student's tone and ability to play a piece with a similar type of sound. This section will not give advantage to students with more expensive gear, it is more of a general way to see if you can chose an appropriate tone to the lesson you're working on.

Each of these topics mean 2/10 of the total grade, and I'll include: 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2. The final grade will be the sum of everything. If I get a "x.5" I'll go to the closer low number. For example if the sum of everything is 5.5, my grade will be 5.

I'll do this internally, I won't publish this method and individual concepts grades every time I evaluate a take but I wanted to share with you my new approach."




We try to go very deep with our feedback because we want to help GMCers the more possible. Comments and evaluation is very subjective and that's why more than 1 instructor gives feedback for each take.

Regarding Tone, I don't think that you have to clone the original lesson, but you need to use a tone that fits well with the backing and playing style.

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