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Posted by: Kizaze44 Aug 28 2007, 03:12 AM

Marcus,

Great stuff! I'm simply in awe of your skill. Here's the question: While soloing, do you "hear" phrases in your head, then implement them, like being one step ahead of your fingers, or are you just "in the moment" letting your fingers do the "thinking" - purely imporvisational every step of the way?

Your solos are super-cool. Just looking for a tip or two.

Thanks,

Kizaze

Posted by: Salivtomte Aug 29 2007, 05:35 PM

Thats a great question, i want to know that too

Posted by: steve25 Oct 16 2007, 08:29 PM

I would also like to know this kind of like how Pavel says he does his solos

Posted by: lavendell Oct 16 2007, 10:37 PM

I've totally missed this thread! Sorry about that!
I've never really thought about this, but I guess i'm just "in the moment" trying to think as little as possible

Interesting subject though... how do you guys do it?!


-Marcus

Posted by: steve25 Oct 16 2007, 11:32 PM

So you basically just play along to the backing track until you come up with something good? By using your scales and stuff?

Posted by: lavendell Oct 17 2007, 12:09 AM

Yeah, that's basically it!

Posted by: jammer91 Oct 17 2007, 12:35 AM

How do you improvise in the first place?

I dont know any scale (find em pointless), but how do you use them. In lot of lessons i find notes are picked out of the given scale box (which makes it confusing w heater to stick to a scale box or not).

So how do you improvise and come up with solos?


Also i need a crash course in my scale knowledge and where to start, can anyone help me by linking lessons?

Posted by: steve25 Oct 17 2007, 12:35 AM

Cool, when i can do scales properly i'll give that a go, i guess people do it differently some like to hear a solo in their heads but your solos sound great so it must work just as well for some

Posted by: lavendell Oct 17 2007, 02:36 AM

I've given this some more thought now (and it was a lot easier to realize how I do it, when I actually had a guitar in my hands and improvised to a backing track).

First - I don't hear phrases in my head at all. It's more an emotion which is very hard to explain.

It's like I feel that; NOW it must sound aggressive and furious (for example)
Then the choice of notes and technique don't feel important, and it just goes by it self. My approach, at that moment, is that I don't care if I miss half of the notes, because hopefully I delivered the intention to sound aggressive and furious.

I don't think in boxes, but I do occasionally find myself "quick-scanning the fretboard" to check what choices I have note-wise. And that image in my head looks something like this:



Now, this is how I do it, but I'd love to hear how YOU think while improvising!


-Marcus

Posted by: Robin Oct 17 2007, 03:22 AM

Scales are not pointless. Try to improvise over a backing track without knowing where the root note is, not knowing any notes that fit to the backing or eachother, nothing hangs toghether. Just hitting random notes will sound horrible. All your favorite guitarists use scales, I'm sure of that. Infact, I dont know about any electric guitar players that dont use scales.

As usual: Kris' One-on-one lessons on the pentatonic scale will help you start.

Kris' pentatonic lessons was where everything started with me actually. I practiced all boxes untill I knew them, but dont practice too long, just long enough to know how the scale is. Before Gabriel and the other instructors came with their blues lessons, GMC only had one blues lesson. Kris' Hot blues licks lesson. I learned most of that lesson, not all of it becuase some licks were too hard. I used Kris' licks to improvise and I made variations of the licks I learned from him. After a little while I managed to create my own licks.
Also, listen to other guitarists, steal licks and play around with them, make your own variations. Also make your own licks and patterns from scratch.

Now, ~10months later, I personally think I'm very good at improvising. I dont play perfect, but I manage to create solos and even new licks as I play, and with very good phrasing. Whenever I play to a new backing track I find new licks and new ways to improvise.

Jamming/improvising is just as important as lessons and excerises. Actually, to me improvising is ALOT more important than excerises, but then again, I play blues, not shred. Improvise EVERY day, or else you wont be able to create your own stuff.


Btw, I use minor pentatonic for all this, but also Dorian, wich is pretty much the same as minor pentatonic, just two more notes. I also use licks that are partly outside these scales, it doesnt matter if you jump out of the scale with a note or two, aslong as it sounds good. Look at the scale as a foundation or guideline. You can jump outside, but be sure to jump in again.


Oh and I also got to add that Walliman got plenty of excellent lessons on scales.

Posted by: steve25 Oct 18 2007, 06:40 AM

That's quite interesting Marcus, your way of making solos reminds me of my old guitar teacher. He couldn't shred, sweep or tap or anything like that but he could still improvise like a beast. He'd play a song for example that didn't have a solo in it and put one in there and it always sounded awesome. Or he'd take a song that already had a solo but make his own, and a lot of the time it sounded better. But the problem was, and this is one of the reasons i had to switch to a different guitar player, (he taught mainly rhythm stuff anyway) was that he had no clue how he was doing it. He didn't play by scales just somehow he could do it right off the top of his head. Because of this, he couldn't teach me how to solo. You say you're also the same as this? As in you don't follow the notes in scales you just go by what you feel like at the time? Isn't that a huge risk that you could easily mess up an improvisation? Or do you, but just try again until you find something that you like the sound of?

Posted by: lavendell Oct 18 2007, 03:26 PM

Steve,

I think that's really cool and I have total respect for guitar players like your old teacher. He simply just listen to how it sounds, without any theory knowledge to back it up! I wouldn't recommend it to you guys, but apparently it's the right way for a few people.

However, It's a bit different with me. I've worked hard and practiced a lot to learn the scales. I know them insideout, and I'm (almost ) always aware of what I'm playing. Maybe I expressed myself sloppy before, but when I "scan the fretboard" I do it just to know what scales/notes I have to chose from.


-Marcus

Posted by: Spiderusalem Oct 18 2007, 04:04 PM

Thats a really detailed image to have inside your head. I wish my head worked more like yours. is there a place I can download the upgrade?

I do the same thing when I (try to) solo. I focus on an emotion, and my mind automatically pulls out riffs/licks/scales that relate to that emotion, and then I don't really think about it. I think its like trying to talk to a woman you dont know, or kicking your friend in the balls for no good reason: the more you think about it, the less you're actually gonna do it.

Posted by: ballistic31 Oct 18 2007, 04:38 PM

well as I could not solo before i came to this site i was allways a rhythm player...........I play drums bass and guitar......................but never solos............I do like the chalange of it all and have been doing pretty good with improve latly with solos ...................I have a new fun way to help me with scales that makes it fun ...................I sit in my studio and play as if i was blind ..............i turn off all the lights and play in the dark................and after a while you come in tune with the guitar.......I am at the point where im trying to do scale runs with few tapping runs. and my playing is definatly getting better and smoother...........I feel that stareing at the frett board trying to play scales just gets me way to confussed and then you miss notes....cause you are allways trying to think ahead way before you should ,,,,,but then to each there own lol

Posted by: steve25 Oct 19 2007, 01:13 AM

Ah i see what you mean marcus, you know the scales so well they become second nature to you? Wish i could do that lol i'm aweful with scales at the moment.

Posted by: dimeisgod Oct 26 2007, 11:00 AM

marcus,

how long did it take until you were really able to improvise?

Posted by: lavendell Oct 26 2007, 02:52 PM

Hi dimeisgod,

First, I don't consider myself a "master of improvisation" or anything like that, - absolutely not! I still have A LOT to learn!!

I can't really remember, but I think it took about 1 or 2 years until I could improvise and make it sound as I wanted. But then - I had played piano many years before I started playing guitar, and I believe that helped to speed up the process.

Also, I think this is very individual. And my best advise is to watch other guitarists improvising, and to listen to a lot of different music... and of course: practice, practice, practice!


-Marcus

Posted by: mattacuk Oct 26 2007, 04:34 PM

Dude,
I would definalty do kris's pentatonic 101 lessons, he will show you how to imrpovse of the pentatonic scale!

http://www2.guitarmasterclass.net/One_on_one_pentatonic_scale1.htm

http://www2.guitarmasterclass.net/One_on_one_pentatonic_scale2.htm

http://www2.guitarmasterclass.net/One_on_one_pentatonic_scale3.htm

pure gold!

Posted by: Kizaze44 Nov 7 2007, 11:25 AM

Marcus, thanks for responding! I let this one go after I started it, but it's great to hear your thoughts on the subject. Not thinking ahead but being in the moment - as I suspected. Anyone out there - is that a B harmonic minor scale in the diagram?

-Kiz

Posted by: lavendell Nov 7 2007, 04:40 PM

Yep, it's B harmonic minor