Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Gmc Price Adjustment

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2009, 09:18 AM

BAD NEWS:
We have now come to the point where an adjustment of the GMC subscription price is necessary. The current rates were set three years ago.

GOOD NEWS:
It won't affect you. That's right - if you have got an active subscription you will keep getting full GMC access for the same, low fee.

In other words new members will soon pay more for GMC - but old members will enjoy further growth/development of the site without paying more.

On a sidenote I want to thank all the old-time members who have made it possible to take GMC from a site with ~five guitar lessons, to a full blown guitar community. You rock, GMC wouldn't be what it is today without you.

Posted by: Chokehold Aug 14 2009, 09:20 AM

Good news for me then. biggrin.gif

How much more expensive will it be?

Posted by: Wabba Aug 14 2009, 09:25 AM

Does this mean, that:

a)When my 12 month subriction renews (is that a word) it will cost me the old prize? or the new?
b)When the credit card expires (is that a word) and the last 12-month subscription ends, i have to pay the increased prize to activate my account?

And yeah, how much do you increase the prize?
But I won't quit GMC unless you raise the prize to somewhere like 100 € month biggrin.gif

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2009, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Wabba @ Aug 14 2009, 10:25 AM) *
a)When my 12 month subriction renews (is that a word) it will cost me the old prize? or the new?

It will cost you the old price forever no matter how many times it renews.

QUOTE (Wabba @ Aug 14 2009, 10:25 AM) *
b)When the credit card expires (is that a word) and the last 12-month subscription ends, i have to pay the increased prize to activate my account?


If paypal cannot renew your subscription (usually because the card has expired) it will send you several warning emails before your subscription is terminated.

If you want to be on the safe side you can add a secondary credit card to your paypal account.

However - if you cancel your subscription and then sign up again (after the new prices are live) you will not be able to sign up for the old price.

QUOTE (Chokehold @ Aug 14 2009, 10:20 AM) *
How much more expensive will it be?

The price levels we have discussed range from (depending on which billing cycle you choose):

most expensive:
29 usd / month (today 9,6 /month )

cheapest:
19 usd / month (today 7,5 /month )

This isn't quite set in stone yet - but to give you an impression.

Posted by: Wabba Aug 14 2009, 09:56 AM

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Aug 14 2009, 09:51 AM) *
If paypal cannot renew your subscription (usually because the card has expired) it will send you several warning emails before your subscription is terminated.

If you want to be on the safe side you can add a secondary credit card to your paypal account.

However - if you cancel your subscription and then sign up again (after the new prices are live) you will not be able to sign up for the old price.


Hmm, I quite don't understand that all smile.gif

But i know that the credit card had expired, but the paypal account is the same. So when i we bought the new subscription with the same e-mail, it refreshed the old one (Cause all my bookmarks were there cool.gif ). So if i do the same in future, will it cost the new prize or the old prize?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2009, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Wabba @ Aug 14 2009, 10:56 AM) *
But i know that the credit card had expired, but the paypal account is the same. So when i we bought the new subscription with the same e-mail, it refreshed the old one (Cause all my bookmarks were there cool.gif ). So if i do the same in future, will it cost the new prize or the old prize?

If you sign up again you get the new price (even if your bookmarks are still there) - if you let the subscription renew by itself you get the old price.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 14 2009, 10:17 AM

This adjustment seems very reasonable to me considering
what GMC has to offer and but yeah,
keeping the same price for existing members is really cool. smile.gif

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 14 2009, 10:45 AM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 14 2009, 11:17 AM) *
This adjustment seems very reasonable to me considering
what GMC has to offer and but yeah,
keeping the same price for existing members is really cool. smile.gif


I agree

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 14 2009, 11:15 AM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 14 2009, 10:17 AM) *
This adjustment seems very reasonable to me considering
what GMC has to offer and but yeah,
keeping the same price for existing members is really cool. smile.gif

I agree with Muris too.
Just seeing how much the Site has expanded in my short stay has been incredible!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: Mister_Riff Aug 14 2009, 11:20 AM

I also have a question:

- I subscribed using bank transfer, when I renew my subscription (using another bank transfer) will I have to pay the old price or the new one?

thx

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 14 2009, 11:53 AM

Oh man ! Does this mean I have to change the videos on YouTube with my referral link ? I doubt anybody's going to join because of me, but I don't want to be dishonest by putting ~$20/3 months...

Anyway, I probably shouldn't advertise for GMC at all, seeing as my playing will most likely give negative reputation to this wonderful site ! sad.gif

On the other hand, I'm glad we get to stay for twice as little ! biggrin.gif

Posted by: MickeM Aug 14 2009, 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 14 2009, 11:17 AM) *
keeping the same price for existing members is really cool. smile.gif

That's customer care at it's best!!!

Posted by: Sergio Dorado Aug 14 2009, 12:05 PM

I think the increase is logical because today there are more many lessons than 2- 3 years ago

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 14 2009, 12:10 PM

QUOTE (Sergio Dorado @ Aug 14 2009, 12:05 PM) *
I think the increase is logical because today there are more many lessons than 2- 3 years ago

Absolutely. Also the standards are higher. Larger video frame, more quality content etc...

Posted by: mba64 Aug 14 2009, 12:28 PM

It is worth every penny, so good lessons, and teacher and the best forum
Everything you want to know about guitar you can get here.
It is suberb that old members get the old price..
laugh.gif

Posted by: Canis Aug 14 2009, 12:32 PM

Sounds like a great plan! ... I especially like the part where I don't have to pay more tongue.gif

GMC has evolved alot, though. So I can totally see why this is happening =)

Posted by: edguy Aug 14 2009, 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Aug 14 2009, 10:54 AM) *
The price levels we have discussed range from (depending on which billing cycle you choose):

most expensive:
29 usd / month (today 9,6 /month )

cheapest:
19 usd / month (today 7,5 /month )

This isn't quite set in stone yet - but to give you an impression.


Hey Kris are sure with this prices? I ask because at the moment i pay 29 USD for GMC after rejoining at June 09. Don't get me wrong i have nothing aganst a price adjustment but i think the prices you named here are the same as now?
But i don't know it maybe I'm wrong.



Posted by: Canis Aug 14 2009, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (edguy @ Aug 14 2009, 01:57 PM) *
Hey Kris are sure with this prices? I ask because at the moment i pay 29 USD for GMC after rejoining at June 09. Don't get me wrong i have nothing aganst a price adjustment but i think the prices you named here are the same as now?
But i don't know it maybe I'm wrong.

Now you pay 29 bucks for three months, while new members will pay 29 bucks each month if they pay one month at a time. Same as now, you get it cheaper if you pay for longer periods, I guess wink.gif

Posted by: Frederik Aug 14 2009, 01:10 PM

when are they adjusted?
dont have active refill .:S

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 14 2009, 01:12 PM

Great! Just when my account expired because I am to dead broke to renew it before the end of the summer....

Posted by: Gerardo Siere Aug 14 2009, 01:36 PM

I think Kris have a point, the site has grown up so beyond any expectations. And still the probable new prices seems pretty cheap in comparison two lets say to two teachers class a month.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2009, 03:23 PM

QUOTE (Mister_Riff @ Aug 14 2009, 12:20 PM) *
I also have a question:

- I subscribed using bank transfer, when I renew my subscription (using another bank transfer) will I have to pay the old price or the new one?


You will unfortunately pay the new price if you use bank transfer - the only work around I can think about is for you to pay in advance for quite some time, you would have to do it pretty soon though. ( easiest is of course if you have the possibility to switch to a subscription ).

If you have more detailed questions about this please turn to [email protected]

Posted by: Oubollig Aug 14 2009, 03:46 PM

So when will this adjustment be introduced?

Posted by: purple hayes Aug 14 2009, 03:53 PM

All that money from the government bailout and this is how you repay us?*

*this joke will only make sense to the US members of this forum.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 14 2009, 04:02 PM

Referral links should all be edited once the new prices are defined?

Posted by: Keilnoth Aug 14 2009, 04:07 PM

You shouldn't compare with real life class lesson. It's a completely different service even though the goal is the same.

GMC has grown so fast because it was good AND cheap. If I had to pay 30 bucks/month instead of 9 I would seriously think twice before giving it a try. The new prices will probably slow down the new comers flux.

I hope you are going to keep a cheap fee, perhaps with limited access (no GP file or tabs, no REC, low quality video, etc...) and that the one year subscription will come down to ~10 - 15$/month max. Or give a 5 days free period to test the site with no charge.

Don't get me wrong, I am really happy with GMC and would be much more happy if the owners earned some money. I give you my opinion because I care. wink.gif

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 14 2009, 04:10 PM

It's not really my business since the wiki responsibillity, but it's to bad this is necesary! It has gotten expensive! 29 $ a month... that's probably the most expensive since it's for the 3 month cycle, you'd need to pay almost 90$ for three months... that's quite a lot of money!

It's no critics, I'm sure this raise is necesary to keep GMC going, but welll.... it's just sad wink.gif you get my drift I hope dry.gif

Posted by: purple hayes Aug 14 2009, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Aug 14 2009, 11:07 AM) *
Or give a 5 days free period to test the site with no charge.


The problem with that is that you could use your 5 day trial to download all the GuitarPro files.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 14 2009, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (Oubollig @ Aug 14 2009, 04:46 PM) *
So when will this adjustment be introduced?


I don't know yet - but not before next friday.

Posted by: Keilnoth Aug 14 2009, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (purple hayes @ Aug 14 2009, 05:12 PM) *
The problem with that is that you could use your 5 day trial to download all the GuitarPro files.


Disallow the access to tabs and GP5 file and problem solved. smile.gif

PS: I could pay 15$ to play World of Warcraft (I am not!) which is a hobby as guitar is, so I can pay 15$ for GMC... smile.gif

Posted by: Wabba Aug 14 2009, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Aug 14 2009, 04:07 PM) *
You shouldn't compare with real life class lesson. It's a completely different service even though the goal is the same.

GMC has grown so fast because it was good AND cheap. If I had to pay 30 bucks/month instead of 9 I would seriously think twice before giving it a try. The new prices will probably slow down the new comers flux.

I hope you are going to keep a cheap fee, perhaps with limited access (no GP file or tabs, no REC, low quality video, etc...) and that the one year subscription will come down to ~10 - 15$/month max. Or give a 5 days free period to test the site with no charge.

Don't get me wrong, I am really happy with GMC and would be much more happy if the owners earned some money. I give you my opinion because I care. wink.gif


Agreed! Triple prize is maybe too much. One of the reasons why so many people are joining to GMC is that it's cheap. If you increase the cost of subscription to triple, I'm sure that the amount of new members will probably be divided by at least 3. I understand that this new cost is required to keep GMC up, and, no, I definetly don't want to see it going down.

Most of the people (At least most of what I've met) are suspicious about Internet-guitar-learning-sites, and would rather have a 'real' guitar teacher. Then, if the prize of an internet lesson site raises above a 'real' teacher, then surely less people will join, and/or continue the subscription.

In short: This prize raise may cause the GMC Company to make less money than now. ph34r.gif

But then, It's just my opinion.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 14 2009, 04:33 PM

Damn, man! That sucks! Hahaha. I can see why it is necesary though.

I am currently in some financial problems, due to moving to a new apartment and all, and I've been thinking about cancelling my subscription, but I will NOT subscribe again with the new price, if I cancel at this time. Sorry, Kris, but that's too much for me to pay as of now.

Posted by: Tjchep Aug 14 2009, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Aug 14 2009, 09:54 AM) *
The price levels we have discussed range from (depending on which billing cycle you choose):

most expensive:
29 usd / month (today 9,6 /month )

cheapest:
19 usd / month (today 7,5 /month )

This isn't quite set in stone yet - but to give you an impression.


30 bucks a month?

There are a handful of other tutional sites with prices cheaper than that.. do you not want to stay competitive?

Posted by: Martin la guitarra Aug 14 2009, 05:28 PM

i dont know, 30 dollars a month is a loooot of money... Gives me second thoughs

Posted by: Matt23 Aug 14 2009, 05:58 PM

I understand that it's necessary, but it is a lot to pay. If I wasn't getting free membership from updating my Wiki portals, I wouldn't be able to afford it. Maybe you should try the new prices for a month or so and see how it affects the amount of members. It could turn out to make less money than the current prices. I understand though that for the amount the site has grown in the last 3 years a price increase is necessary.

Posted by: Praetorian Aug 14 2009, 06:02 PM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 14 2009, 05:17 AM) *
This adjustment seems very reasonable to me considering
what GMC has to offer and but yeah,
keeping the same price for existing members is really cool. smile.gif


+1...worth every penny!

Posted by: jafomatic Aug 14 2009, 06:09 PM

As existing members we know it's worth the higher price compared to what you'd pay for the same level of information and instruction face to face. Especially since GMC doesn't charge per hour.

I don't think new members would be able to see, appreciate, and agree to this same value.

Posted by: Matt23 Aug 14 2009, 06:13 PM

Yeh I think GMC will still be worth every penny after the price adjustment, but there will be people like me who just can't afford it.

Posted by: Frederik Aug 14 2009, 06:22 PM

I wouldn't pay for it, but just signed up for a year with the old price, which i find resonable for an online-teaching-site
face to face interaction is preferable but costs, i would prefer a teacher from my town with the new prices

-frederik

Posted by: mattacuk Aug 14 2009, 06:28 PM


I think the new price structure is still very reasonable.

I paid that weekly for very poor lessons from local instructors!! blink.gif

Posted by: -Zion- Aug 14 2009, 06:54 PM

i must say that 29 dollars a months is quite a lot of money, and i honestly think it would have kept me from signing up in the first place.. so i am grateful and lucky to be able to keep the fee as it is now..

it's a bit sad that this is something that has to happen since this is such an awesome community..

btw.. what happens when my creditcard expires or get stolen and i have to get a new one?

Posted by: coffeeman Aug 14 2009, 06:56 PM

thanks a lot for keeping the old price for old members Kris , thats very nice from you.

Posted by: Pio Jr. Aug 14 2009, 07:21 PM

Thanks that I could keep the same fee. If I was a new member I shouldn't be able to pay $30 month.
So I'm glad I already in because GMC is great.

Posted by: Mario87 Aug 14 2009, 08:52 PM

Well bussines is not about raising the prices to see what happens, so I believe they must have some data, stats and/or reasons to raise the price with some confidence about it.

Keeping the old prices for old customers is cool in two ways:

1. You reward somewhat your loyal and veteran customers

2. You probably will keep a lot of current accounts suscribed for a long time so people can avoid paying 3 times more. That should put a bit less risk into the changue.

But in my opinion, the raise could have been more gradually done and it could coincide with some jump in service quality as some new series lessons, new systems, redesing of some process, Kris doing more GuitarTube funny lessons biggrin.gif or something like that (We saw a new "nice look" and options for the web being developed I remember), to make the changue less "unpopular".

With that being said, I dont think I could/would be willing to pay the new prices, so I hope I can keep my account running smile.gif

Posted by: kahall Aug 15 2009, 03:34 AM

QUOTE (purple hayes @ Aug 14 2009, 09:53 AM) *
All that money from the government bailout and this is how you repay us?*

*this joke will only make sense to the US members of this forum.


We need a new guitar lesson tax. Even if you do not play guitar you must help those who do want to play. It is the only fair thing to do. Every one deserves guitar lessons if they want them. It is a right. It's in the constitution..Look it up. heh!

I do think tripling the price is a bit much but I'm a lifer, and will be here until the site shuts down *shudder* or I'm on the wrong side of the dirt.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Aug 15 2009, 09:17 AM

GMC has lots of quality things to offer and I think price adjustment is fair. Whenever I told people about GMC and price, everybody was shocked. Shocked to extent that they started feeling something must be wrong when subscription is too low smile.gif
REC, new MTP, Collaborations, Lessons, Virtual bands, Competitions, Chat and 24/7 support from instructors... I really think this is worth a lot more. Hope we won't loose members because of price adjustment wink.gif

Posted by: newguyatgmc Aug 15 2009, 04:55 PM

Well, there is nodoubt that the material on the site has grown very fast. I think the price raise is justified. But, I would recommend the following:

A first time, subscription should have a subsidized rate. for eg: For new members, the first three months it can be 15 or 20 dollars per month and then you can carry on from increased rate if you like the service. This will ensure that u will not hamper the signup of new members.

Or may be the referrals should provide such a rate for first three months.


Just an advise to GMC mgmt.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 15 2009, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (newguyatgmc @ Aug 15 2009, 05:55 PM) *
Well, there is nodoubt that the material on the site has grown very fast. I think the price raise is justified. But, I would recommend the following:

A first time, subscription should have a subsidized rate. for eg: For new members, the first three months it can be 15 or 20 dollars per month and then you can carry on from increased rate if you like the service. This will ensure that u will not hamper the signup of new members.

Or may be the referrals should provide such a rate for first three months.


Just an advise to GMC mgmt.


There are some flaws to that though.

One could sign up for 3 months with the "low cost", then just make a new account for 3 new months etc.

Posted by: Wabba Aug 15 2009, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 15 2009, 05:22 PM) *
There are some flaws to that though.

One could sign up for 3 months with the "low cost", then just make a new account for 3 new months etc.


But again, what if you couldn't acces all features with that 'cheap' membership.

For an example:

No forum account, gps, tabs, cover lessons.. and so on smile.gif And bookmarks reset if you do a new account.

Posted by: Frederik Aug 15 2009, 05:30 PM

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 15 2009, 06:22 PM) *
There are some flaws to that though.

One could sign up for 3 months with the "low cost", then just make a new account for 3 new months etc.


couldnt you just register the ip to solve that problem?
(not that im know alot about this)

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 15 2009, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (Wabba @ Aug 15 2009, 06:29 PM) *
But again, what if you couldn't acces all features with that 'cheap' membership.

For an example:

No forum account, gps, tabs, cover lessons.. and so on smile.gif And bookmarks reset if you do a new account.


But then again you wouldn't know what you were signing up for with the full price if you don't get to see it! laugh.gif

The work around could be limited access as in "you can only access X n-amount of times", so you actually get to see, what you are signing up to. I don't know really. Computer-stuff like this is not my strong point, seeing what I think is flaws in ideas (without having better ideas myself) is probably more of a strong point! laugh.gif

Posted by: Keilnoth Aug 15 2009, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Frederik @ Aug 15 2009, 06:30 PM) *
couldnt you just register the ip to solve that problem?
(not that im know alot about this)


No, the IP address is not personal and a lot of different people can be affected by one IP ban.

Posted by: xplicit97 Aug 15 2009, 09:50 PM

Seems like money brings debate (as always, lol;))
Most people are right, GMC was great AND cheap
and guitar is already an ULTRAexpensive hobby biggrin.gif
But I guess I shouldn't discuss those things...

Posted by: Wabba Aug 15 2009, 10:19 PM

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 15 2009, 05:35 PM) *
But then again you wouldn't know what you were signing up for with the full price if you don't get to see it! laugh.gif

The work around could be limited access as in "you can only access X n-amount of times", so you actually get to see, what you are signing up to. I don't know really. Computer-stuff like this is not my strong point, seeing what I think is flaws in ideas (without having better ideas myself) is probably more of a strong point! laugh.gif


Hmm... I don't know how other people feel, but i hate those "you have only x uses left". So IF there would be such a system, you should at least get, let's say 3 more uses per week. But otherwise this way sounds pretty working smile.gif

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 15 2009, 11:18 PM

Do I sense an increasing tension in GMC's population ?

SIRE ! The peasants are revolting ! biggrin.gif

I fully understand that $20 for 3 months is like celebrating Christmas every day of the year, but I have a pretty bad feeling about the site's popularity if the price were to TRIPLE. Yes, the site has grown over the past 2-3 years, but so has the MEMBERS count... Logically, as the site gets bigger (increasing fees/outcome), the popularity grows, resulting in a higher number of members, in which case a higher income is implicit...

Again, I have spent many years with private instructors for both piano and guitar, and I appreciate what GMC is doing. Researching "on my own" - 24/7 availability - has proved a way to learn much more than 20 minutes a week with incompetent instructors.

Finally, I think the site does have the right to an increased fee, but in my opinion, better publicity and ultimately exploiting countries like China (who according to another forum post, is experiencing a pretty big cultural wave of guitar playing) would let this community acquire plenty of new members who will help finance GMC's activity. If such a member-count explosion were to take place, I am sure you could lower the prices again for an even higher member-count.


Oh, one positive thing about the fee's multiplication ! My dad will never even think about cancelling my subscription, since he would never get back to the lovely old fee... wink.gif

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 16 2009, 09:20 AM

QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Aug 16 2009, 12:18 AM) *
I fully understand that $20 for 3 months is like celebrating Christmas every day of the year, but I have a pretty bad feeling about the site's popularity if the price were to TRIPLE.


+1! I looked around, if I had to pay 30 $ a month, I could get other lessons 3 times cheaper!! And (sorry to say) those lessons would come from sites that look more professional then GMC! That doesn't mean they're better, but they'll attract members more easily! Ofcourse they don't have a cool community like this, but newcomer don't care about that! Isn't it possible to slow down a bit on lessons and save money with that? I'm not really aware of any of GMC's financials, but maybe decreasing some of the expenses could also work??

sorry to mix in things, non of my business, I'm just afraid that GMC might get a BIG community loss with those prices!

QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Aug 16 2009, 12:18 AM) *
Finally, I think the site does have the right to an increased fee, but in my opinion, better publicity and ultimately exploiting countries like China (who according to another forum post, is experiencing a pretty big cultural wave of guitar playing) would let this community acquire plenty of new members who will help finance GMC's activity. If such a member-count explosion were to take place, I am sure you could lower the prices again for an even higher member-count.

Alex..... great words tongue.gif True!

Posted by: wrk Aug 16 2009, 09:44 AM

Somehow the association pops up in my mind to upgrade a prepaid mobile to a business phone contract .. laugh.gif ... i just hope that this upgrade will not automatically rise the average age of members as well wink.gif

Having said this, i still think it's a good deal for what we get in return !!!



Posted by: sted Aug 16 2009, 10:22 AM

Hmmmm...

Im not so sure about the value of such a big increase, it puts GMC into a whole other market in my opinion. Whilst I think the forums are unequivocally the best on the net, I'm finding myself using only a few of the instructors lessons so it doesnt seem to represent the value it did before. Sure, if I used every lesson that came out it would but who does?
Maybe Kris should consider "one off" prices for specific lessons, personally I find myself searching for more specific lessons more and more which means I look elsewhere than GMC because the GMC format tries to encompass everything under one fee, I would be surprised if I try and learn one lesson a month at the moment because I have very clear goals of what I want to achieve.
This is clearly a business decision by the management and I respect anyone with the drive and committment to make something like this work, however GMC must be able to offer flexibility or it will lose out to its competitors that offer multiple solutions.

Posted by: edguy Aug 17 2009, 07:41 AM

QUOTE (sted @ Aug 16 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Hmmmm...

Im not so sure about the value of such a big increase, it puts GMC into a whole other market in my opinion. Whilst I think the forums are unequivocally the best on the net, I'm finding myself using only a few of the instructors lessons so it doesnt seem to represent the value it did before. Sure, if I used every lesson that came out it would but who does?
Maybe Kris should consider "one off" prices for specific lessons, personally I find myself searching for more specific lessons more and more which means I look elsewhere than GMC because the GMC format tries to encompass everything under one fee, I would be surprised if I try and learn one lesson a month at the moment because I have very clear goals of what I want to achieve.
This is clearly a business decision by the management and I respect anyone with the drive and committment to make something like this work, however GMC must be able to offer flexibility or it will lose out to its competitors that offer multiple solutions.


Wow great post and wise words. I think there is nothing to add.

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 17 2009, 05:12 PM

QUOTE (sted @ Aug 16 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Hmmmm...

Im not so sure about the value of such a big increase, it puts GMC into a whole other market in my opinion. Whilst I think the forums are unequivocally the best on the net, I'm finding myself using only a few of the instructors lessons so it doesnt seem to represent the value it did before. Sure, if I used every lesson that came out it would but who does?
Maybe Kris should consider "one off" prices for specific lessons, personally I find myself searching for more specific lessons more and more which means I look elsewhere than GMC because the GMC format tries to encompass everything under one fee, I would be surprised if I try and learn one lesson a month at the moment because I have very clear goals of what I want to achieve.
This is clearly a business decision by the management and I respect anyone with the drive and committment to make something like this work, however GMC must be able to offer flexibility or it will lose out to its competitors that offer multiple solutions.


Flexibility is indeed a good word to use. However, giving one single option of payment could be a bit annoying for some members, and of course, high constant prices every month could agitate those who aren't as active as the others...

For me, the full payment works the best, as I draw inspiration from almost every feature on GMC, especially collaborations, REC and chat (and very many video lessons) ! smile.gif

Posted by: NoSkill Aug 17 2009, 05:20 PM

This is very generous, Kris. The current value is, frankly, immeasurable. We have instant and unlimited access to multiple instructors without paying any more than the base price? We have instant feedback to whatever questions we have as well as the ability to get feedback on recordings and videos? We have the MTP and REC programs providing tracking capabilities of progress along with comments. And, as a regular REC contributor, the instructors remember your weaknesses from previous stuff and will kindly remind you on the things they mentioned before...all at no extra charge?

GMC is what you make it. If you are just perusing lessons and picking a few a month to fiddle with, then it's expensive. If you are using the resources available to you at the site, then it's a bargain at twice the price!

Thanks for the heads up and thanks for the generous offer of continuing at this price for current members.

Cheers!

Tom in Canada

Posted by: mattacuk Aug 17 2009, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (NoSkill @ Aug 17 2009, 05:20 PM) *
This is very generous, Kris. The current value is, frankly, immeasurable. We have instant and unlimited access to multiple instructors without paying any more than the base price? We have instant feedback to whatever questions we have as well as the ability to get feedback on recordings and videos? We have the MTP and REC programs providing tracking capabilities of progress along with comments. And, as a regular REC contributor, the instructors remember your weaknesses from previous stuff and will kindly remind you on the things they mentioned before...all at no extra charge?

GMC is what you make it. If you are just perusing lessons and picking a few a month to fiddle with, then it's expensive. If you are using the resources available to you at the site, then it's a bargain at twice the price!

Thanks for the heads up and thanks for the generous offer of continuing at this price for current members.

Cheers!

Tom in Canada



That was a really good post Tom ! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 17 2009, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (NoSkill @ Aug 17 2009, 06:20 PM) *
This is very generous, Kris. The current value is, frankly, immeasurable. We have instant and unlimited access to multiple instructors without paying any more than the base price? We have instant feedback to whatever questions we have as well as the ability to get feedback on recordings and videos? We have the MTP and REC programs providing tracking capabilities of progress along with comments. And, as a regular REC contributor, the instructors remember your weaknesses from previous stuff and will kindly remind you on the things they mentioned before...all at no extra charge?

GMC is what you make it. If you are just perusing lessons and picking a few a month to fiddle with, then it's expensive. If you are using the resources available to you at the site, then it's a bargain at twice the price!

Thanks for the heads up and thanks for the generous offer of continuing at this price for current members.

Cheers!

Tom in Canada


Good point Tom, I agree 100%.

Posted by: birthmark Aug 17 2009, 09:39 PM

$30 a month is quite a jump! I appreciate the kind gesture from Kris for all existing members, but at $30 each month, Im not sure if I would have signed up in the first place. I see the value now, but how will you portray this to the average joe coming off the Internet?

How about a comfortable slot between 10 and 30 a month ie $20? That seems managable.

Anyway, I love this site and am recommending it to as many of my friends as possible. I hope they will be comfortable with the higher prices.

Good night all
smile.gif

Posted by: JVM Aug 17 2009, 09:52 PM

I don't think $30 a month is very much. That is a dollar a day. I realize many of our members have tight budgets, but I honestly think even most beginner level players could make a dollar a day busking just with stuff learned on GMC. I've been paying for GMC for well over two years and I can't think of a single better luxury to spend my money on, even at the new price.

[edit] However, it's a good point that has been made that new members may be daunted by the price. Before, GMC was not only the best guitar site on the net, but also one of (if not the) cheapest pay sites around. I think there are two solutions:

1) On the page where the decision is made to subscribe or not (the 'sales pitch' page) make it clear that the price was originally lower, and describe how GMC is an active, organic community that grows in response to the community's needs, justifying the price.

2) Get them hooked on a cheaper first-time subscriber plan. When they get a month of GMC I think they will realize the potential and be glad to pay.

Posted by: javari Aug 17 2009, 10:10 PM

I did end my sybscription for the moment (hey, there is a crisis going on and I need all my time and cash to keep my small business afloat..)
I personally think the increase in price is pretty steep. Three times as expensive in one go is quite a lot.
If I were to do that in my business, I wouldn't have a customer left...

Maybe it is a good thing to put a brake on the fast growth of the site/community, and then this is a good thing to do. Bigger isn't always better.

At the current prices it is very good value for money. So an increase in price is justified.
But, as said, not as much.

There are a lot of alternatives. Whether they are as good as GMC is a personal opinion and is something that is very hard to judge for new members.
And especially younger people who don't have much money may find the new prices far to high...

Another concern may be that with increased prices piracy and illegal posting of the lessons will increase.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: purple hayes Aug 17 2009, 11:23 PM

As a long-term member that spends way too much time on GMC, I would have no problem spending $30 knowing all that I'm getting from this site.

If I were a noob and looking for a pay guitar site, I'm not sure that I would be willing to part with $30/mo.

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 22 2009, 05:54 PM

QUOTE (purple hayes @ Aug 18 2009, 12:23 AM) *
As a long-term member that spends way too much time on GMC, I would have no problem spending $30 knowing all that I'm getting from this site.

If I were a noob and looking for a pay guitar site, I'm not sure that I would be willing to part with $30/mo.

You're right... smile.gif However, only noobs join this site as they can't have any experience with what it has to offer without having joined it. sad.gif Very difficult to solve this problem. I guess we should just advertise more and try to persuade people to use this resource.

Posted by: Jenbu Aug 22 2009, 07:05 PM

that's good news for us who are members now but for me it kinda sucks :/ since I have to create a new account everytime I shall pay for a new year or month. I have 3 accounts now. The first was a month paid and the second too but this account got a year paid smile.gif
But do you need to have paypal to pay the existing account?

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 22 2009, 07:53 PM

Many thanks to Kris for keeping the price for current members. That says a lot about you in the first place. I have to admit after 30 consecutive months that I have spent less than the price of my guitar. So to me, it was well worth it. I run a business too and know that proper price increases are the back bone of keeping the doors open. Just keep an eye on the joining rate to see if it is greatly effected. As well as how long they stay.

Good luck GMC!

Jason

Posted by: enforcer Aug 22 2009, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the act of good will Kris... For new members its a little pricey though biggrin.gif


Posted by: Jenbu Aug 24 2009, 09:47 PM

well it's just to play like hell out the payment tongue.gif and maybe keep on paying

Posted by: Smikey2006 Aug 24 2009, 09:59 PM

i don't mind the price adjustment.. but i am a little upset because atm my subscription is expired so i will have to sign up again sad.gif and the extra money is a deterant.. but im sure ill find a way anyways smile.gif

Posted by: jdriver Aug 25 2009, 03:28 AM

This seems designed to stem the tidal wave of new members. It doesn't matter if there are 1,000 lessons or 100,000 lessons. A person can only study just so many of them. I seriously doubt the lessons per member usage number has changed much.

But it's Kris's site and he can do what he wants, and I'm grateful to keep the old price.

Posted by: DenisN Aug 26 2009, 12:34 PM

Hi Chris,

I've just payed for additional 3 months but I would like to take the subscription for 12 months after that. Does that mean that I'll have to pay for it according to the new prices?

Cheers

Denis

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 26 2009, 04:32 PM

Denis, I don't think you will have to pay the new price, if you didn't canceled the subscription.

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 26 2009, 04:35 PM

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Aug 26 2009, 05:32 PM) *
Denis, I don't think you will have to pay the new price, if you didn't canceled the subscription.

You would if you wanna change from 3 months to 12 months subsciption.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 26 2009, 04:50 PM

Oh, I'm not sure, we better wait for Kris in this case to clarify things, didn't mean to create confusion smile.gif

Posted by: DenisN Aug 28 2009, 05:16 PM

Well guys, I cnceled it and payed 90$ for the whole year....smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Aug 28 2009, 06:20 PM

Is that a good or a bad thing Denis?

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 28 2009, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (DenisN @ Aug 28 2009, 06:16 PM) *
Well guys, I cnceled it and payed 90$ for the whole year....smile.gif


You did well I suppose?

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 28 2009, 08:32 PM

If he's smiling, I guess it's good enough for him laugh.gif

Posted by: earthling Oct 15 2009, 10:11 PM

Well this is goodbye for me at least...Years ago I went to college and took music theory, I left with holes in my knowledge because it was a one year course and mostly applied to piano so I came here to brush up on some technical chops. I'm not impressed with the theory content I found here. What I did find was sporadic and unorganized. I really only gained the insight and clarity of explanation from some of Dave Wallimann's contributions(nice work Dave). If you jack the price of a service you better jack the quality or you loose your customers, its that simple.
A little more on the importance of theory...you can learn a difficult song note for note but without learning the theory behind the song you wont really learn anything and when you go to write your first song you will sound like a disjointed mess. I just spent $105 on a famous series of books on music theory that have been around for over twenty years at seeing the rate increase. That $105 got me three books(700+ pages)and 3 dvd accompaniments. So tell us again why online instructional videos that you can't even download are worth $228 a year...they aren't...its just capitalism...It really is that simple. I had a hard time justifying the $90 a year fee to begin with.
I have been learning songs by ear for 15 years, what I needed was more solid knowledge. I wasn't getting it here. Furthermore throwing around the word "Master" is something people often do but rarely back up. Maybe you could rename the site AboveAverageBarCoverBandClass. You have some great teachers here but they didn't get where they are by learning difficult cover songs. I know people are going to point out that there is theory content on the site but it is not set up as a proper curriculum.

Posted by: Dexxter Oct 15 2009, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (earthling @ Oct 15 2009, 11:11 PM) *
Well this is goodbye for me at least...Years ago I went to college and took music theory, I left with holes in my knowledge because it was a one year course and mostly applied to piano so I came here to brush up on some technical chops. I'm not impressed with the theory content I found here. What I did find was sporadic and unorganized. I really only gained the insight and clarity of explanation from some of Dave Wallimann's contributions(nice work Dave). If you jack the price of a service you better jack the quality or you loose your customers, its that simple.
A little more on the importance of theory...you can learn a difficult song note for note but without learning the theory behind the song you wont really learn anything and when you go to write your first song you will sound like a disjointed mess. I just spent $105 on a famous series of books on music theory that have been around for over twenty years at seeing the rate increase. That $105 got me three books(700+ pages)and 3 dvd accompaniments. So tell us again why online instructional videos that you can't even download are worth $228 a year...they aren't...its just capitalism...It really is that simple. I had a hard time justifying the $90 a year fee to begin with.
I have been learning songs by ear for 15 years, what I needed was more solid knowledge. I wasn't getting it here. Furthermore throwing around the word "Master" is something people often do but rarely back up. Maybe you could rename the site AboveAverageBarCoverBandClass. You have some great teachers here but they didn't get where they are by learning difficult cover songs. I know people are going to point out that there is theory content on the site but it is not set up as a proper curriculum.


Sounds to me like you haven't even seen what GMC has to offer. Video lessons are the "small" part.

Posted by: superize Oct 15 2009, 10:27 PM

QUOTE (earthling @ Oct 15 2009, 11:11 PM) *
Well this is goodbye for me at least...Years ago I went to college and took music theory, I left with holes in my knowledge because it was a one year course and mostly applied to piano so I came here to brush up on some technical chops. I'm not impressed with the theory content I found here. What I did find was sporadic and unorganized. I really only gained the insight and clarity of explanation from some of Dave Wallimann's contributions(nice work Dave). If you jack the price of a service you better jack the quality or you loose your customers, its that simple.
A little more on the importance of theory...you can learn a difficult song note for note but without learning the theory behind the song you wont really learn anything and when you go to write your first song you will sound like a disjointed mess. I just spent $105 on a famous series of books on music theory that have been around for over twenty years at seeing the rate increase. That $105 got me three books(700+ pages)and 3 dvd accompaniments. So tell us again why online instructional videos that you can't even download are worth $228 a year...they aren't...its just capitalism...It really is that simple. I had a hard time justifying the $90 a year fee to begin with.
I have been learning songs by ear for 15 years, what I needed was more solid knowledge. I wasn't getting it here. Furthermore throwing around the word "Master" is something people often do but rarely back up. Maybe you could rename the site AboveAverageBarCoverBandClass. You have some great teachers here but they didn't get where they are by learning difficult cover songs. I know people are going to point out that there is theory content on the site but it is not set up as a proper curriculum.


If you dont like it then you dont have to stay...... there are people here who like everything about GMC and the way it teaches guitar....

Go read your books now and have fun

Posted by: Bondy Oct 15 2009, 10:32 PM

You obviously have not checked the site fully, FYI there are only a few cover song lessons, there's a thing called browsing not just looking at the main page. Enjoy your books

Posted by: Muris Varajic Oct 15 2009, 10:43 PM

Yeah, I believe you haven't browsed enough.
Speaking of theory, you must be aware (and I'm sure you ARE already)
that most of young players are attached to technique and soloing instead of
equal use of theory and technique straight from the start.
That is not big issue at all imo since we have tons of topics about theory here
and lots of discussion as well.
Main idea of lessons at GMC is video which is playing with fair amount of theory
explained either in video or in text.
What I do appreciate is when GMC member asks me a question about theory
behind lesson if I haven't explained it fully in details already,
it means that he is into more than just playing notes by note.
We must be careful with spending too much time on theory in video lessons
cause that might be major reason to reject consumers,
pretty opposite of what you said above. smile.gif

Posted by: Boson Oct 15 2009, 11:05 PM

Steady on guys, lets not just dismiss Earthling without carefully consideering what is said!

Well done you guys for jumping to defend GMC. Thats cool, some of us (myself included) really appreciate what GMC is about and value what it gives us. The price hike has raised a few eyebrows but it is a personal choice as to whether you think it provides value.

However we must accept that GMC cannot possibly be all things to all men. It gives a lot but what it isnt is an overly academic and theoretical approach to guitar playing. In my opinion it is more approachable, friendly and well rounded than that. If you want the theoretical academic ethos then I'm sure it can be found elsewhere. Here I think a love of community and of music and guitar playing comes before that. GMC does provide theory but it is not the primary goal. GMC allows us all to learn and practice without the theory being in our faces but yes it is there if we want it. IF you have a question you only have to ask.

I agree there isnt necessarily a theory curriculum but with the MTP and REC and collaborations and forum and lessons and theory board and wiki and ..... and ...... need I go on? There is scope for us all to learn and progress in our playing and theory knowledge if we wish. GMC is what you make of it!

So Earthling, GMC is not for you, but thanks for trying it out, I note you have only been with us a short while. We wish you well in your quest for theory knowledge. Should you come back to us I am sure you will be made welcome, GMC is that sort of place!

We all want to play well there is more than one route toward s achieving that.

Posted by: Gus Oct 15 2009, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (earthling @ Oct 15 2009, 11:11 PM) *
So tell us again why online instructional videos that you can't even download are worth $228 a year...they aren't...its just capitalism...It really is that simple. I had a hard time justifying the $90 a year fee to begin with.

I actually spend little of time on GMC lessons, because there is so much more.

For me, MTP and collabs are the killer features which make me think renewing my subscription when current one ends.

$228 is a lot of money for sure, but a good guitar teacher is probably no less than $20 dollars a hour, anywhere in the world. So, I prefer paying $228 and getting MTP with a world class guitarist, than paying $90 and not having access to it.

If for any suggestion to GMC, I think it makes sense to divide it in basic subscription (lessons) at maybe a $100 and advanced subscription (everything) at the proposed price. I am sure there is market for both things

Posted by: opeth.db Oct 15 2009, 11:38 PM

QUOTE (Dexxter @ Oct 15 2009, 05:22 PM) *
Sounds to me like you haven't even seen what GMC has to offer. Video lessons are the "small" part.



Amen brother!

You forgot to mention that the moderators treat the paying customers like children and run the forum like a day care and all the sheep that follow these ludicris mods.

To MikeM- Thought I forgot about your comment directed to me huh?
If you care to get banned that will happen if you publicly keep questioning how we moderate the forum. Just go ahead!

Didn't know the moderators were in the buisness of threatening the users too. You can politeliy go ...

Really.

No you can ban me and remove the post. We all know what happens here when you speak your mind.
Hopefully all the 11 year olds that come here will be able to afford the 200% increase.

Opeth you neatly encapsulate why a forum needs moderation. We have members who are minors and we also have minors who read the board. That you feel that it is ok to flame and use foul language says much about you imho. I have suspended your posting rights

Tony - on behalf of the moderating team


Posted by: Guitar1969 Oct 15 2009, 11:41 PM

"Earthling" sounds like a piece of work. He needs to stop buying guitar lessons and take some courses in Tact instead.

Personally I think $30 a month for new members is too high, especially when they aren't going to see the value of it until they become a full blown member. Don't get me wrong, I think GMC has great features and vids and all and if you compare it to live lessons its a great deal, but from a business standpoint you need to look at the competition online. I am afraid you might deter new members with that pricing. I am also bummed I let my old GMC membership lapse, which means when I want to sign up again, I am going to be paying a much higher price. Personnally, I signed up for Guitar Tricks because of 2 things that GMC is lacking for the moment: 1) a full Guitar Cirriculum/Lesson plan laid out(Although GMC has tons of videos it was hard for me to figure out what to practice next in logical order), and 2) All of their lessons are spoken, meaning the teachers talk to you like you are sitting in front of them. (near the end of my GMC membership, I was only looking for 101 spoken lessons). At least for me, there is something about a teacher actually telling you how to play something and discussing nuances about string muting etc that seems to work better for me than just watching a teach play something at different speeds and reading a tab of the passage)

I personally felt GMC was more advanced for me, and planned on returning once I got through the Lesson plans at the other site There are things GT is lacking too that GMC is way better at, but it seemed a better fit for my current skill level(which is beginner/intermediate).

I still do peruse the forums here at GMC too, but I think GMC should come up with other access pricing for those of us that don't need all the features(Like MTP) - You have to remember that not all members have the same goals - I am a 40 year old insurance broker that own his own business and has 3 kids, so my playing the guitar is more therapeutic - I'm not trying to become the next Steve Vai, so limited access would be fine for someone like me.

Posted by: Artemus Oct 16 2009, 12:14 AM

QUOTE (Boson @ Oct 15 2009, 11:05 PM) *
I agree there isnt necessarily a theory curriculum but with the MTP and REC and collaborations and forum and lessons and theory board and wiki and ..... and ...... need I go on? There is scope for us all to learn and progress in our playing and theory knowledge if we wish. GMC is what you make of it!


That's pretty much the way I look at it.
Theory is essential, yes, but useless without understanding.. and understanding comes from putting theory into practise, which is where this site comes in. That, at least, is how it works for me but it's not necessarily everyone's bag.
Sorry to see you go Earthling - we all learn best in our own way and I can appreciate the difficulties of the hike in price; I'm staying as long as my bank account allows me to but alas, I may have to go if my financial circumstances do not improve.

Until then, theory in motion guys - that's the key to expression wink.gif

Posted by: kahall Oct 16 2009, 03:40 AM

QUOTE (earthling @ Oct 15 2009, 04:11 PM) *
[..]
...its just capitalism...It really is that simple.
[..]


You say that like there is something wrong with it. LMAO!

Posted by: grathan Oct 16 2009, 05:08 AM

I'd propose a pay for what you use tier as well, 'cause I only use 6 hours a year, and most of that is just spent sifting through looking for something useful to learn.

Posted by: vampire18 Oct 16 2009, 08:56 AM

your talking about a very small part of gmc, ok so i agree the instructional videos alone might not worth the 228$, but try to chat with pedja for example for an hour and tell me that there are holes in your theory that no one answers. further more you get almost 24 hour of as close as you can get over the internet to face tiem with very very good instructors, not to mention the recently started mtp, and the REC program which you can get honent feedback about you playing or the collabs that try and teach you and train you in actuall writing of songs, and if you look deep inside im sure youll see that you progressed more in your time here than you have progresses in your 20 years of playing

p.s
opeth i feel you and i feel the same about the kinder gardening but there is a time and a place to say it, and say it like an adult

and guitar 1969
you are right if i may say, the thing that gmc really lacks is some kind of order of lessons of where do i go or what do i do now, i really feel like im lacking structure in my gutiar learning but the mtp togather with my RL teacher should probably help that, thogh i would still like some kind of progress bar, cause doing lvl 2s and than when nailing one going for lvl 3s wont work, but on one thing i dont agree the 101 lessnos, first of all a lot of lessons have a talking video but i dont have the pations to see a whole 101 lesson. on the other hand i really do feel the new price is more adult guitar players oriented while the sire is still kinda teenager oriented with a lot of showing of and shredding(i like it i just dont think for example my father would)

Posted by: Gus Oct 16 2009, 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Guitar1969 @ Oct 16 2009, 12:41 AM) *
I still do peruse the forums here at GMC too, but I think GMC should come up with other access pricing for those of us that don't need all the features(Like MTP) - You have to remember that not all members have the same goals - I am a 40 year old insurance broker that own his own business and has 3 kids, so my playing the guitar is more therapeutic - I'm not trying to become the next Steve Vai, so limited access would be fine for someone like me.

Exactly what I think. The subscription should be separated in basic subscription and advanced subscription, where the higher price of advanced subscription is justified over more advanced features (specially MTP).

$228 definitely do not fit all needs.

Posted by: Matt23 Oct 16 2009, 11:22 AM

Maybe GMC could offer a cheaper subscription with adverts, so people can still afford it, and GMC get's the same amount of money.

Posted by: ZakkWylde Oct 16 2009, 11:40 AM

I wont subscribe to GMC again. Not for those prices...

I love the site and I would accept a double in the pricing but not the current fees!
I see it as a silent protest to the 200% raise

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 16 2009, 12:02 PM

Thanks for the comments -

We do understand that the new prices will not suit everybody - and that a price raise in itself is never appreciated (may it be 10% or 300% ). Making this decision was not an easy thing to do.

Some of the new posts here are quite insensible and could potentially be bad for GMC - so this thread will be closed.

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)