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Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 04:26 PM

I was wondering why GMC is always advertised as "free guitar video lessons".
It's not free isn't it?
Also the mainpage says that. Very dubious in my view.

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:27 PM

Main videos ARE free,which is great in my honest opinion

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 04:29 PM

Yes, there are many free elements to GMC !!

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 04:31 PM

haha don't fool yourself.
Isn't it dubious for you?

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:32 PM

So you'd like to have it all for free??
And us to eat air or som

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 04:34 PM

Well whichever way you look at at, GMC offers huge amounts of quality content for a tiny tiny fee !! If only all websites did the same

Posted by: The Uncreator Jan 1 2008, 04:35 PM

Guys, $10 USD a month?

Thats pretty much free, thats like lunch money for an elemtary school kid every day.

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:37 PM

+ 1

You spend more each night on drinks etc

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 04:38 PM

Heeeeeeeeeeeeey. Wait a second. You got me wrong.

I didn't meant it should be free, but it's a curious kind of advertising saying it's for free but in fact it isn't.

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:39 PM

But it's not all for buck too,right?

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 04:39 PM

There is actually a lot of free stuff on the main page. All of the video lessons have free sections (in green). That's how I got hooked on this site, I think it was an "In the Style of" lesson. It even had the tab below the video, though you can't open the GP tab. It gives people a great feeling for what a value is in store for them if they join.

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 1 2008, 04:40 PM

some elements are free, if you choose to upgrade by paying then that is your choice
Not deceptive, GMC doesn't force you to pay does it ?!

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:41 PM

Well said

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 04:43 PM

+ 1

There is plenty of free "stuff" to do, then if you decided to join for the small subscription fee of course its even better GMC is the most straight up and honest website ive found to date

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 1 2008, 04:43 PM

Well main videos are FREE , also every lesson has one or more FREE segments.Forum is free for users to read , Lick of the day lessons are completely FREE..So its fair advertising campaign..If you like all of that and want more you pay a very small fee..

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 04:46 PM

I become insane. You're like politicians

If I read free lessons, than I expect free lessons and not just videos from guitarists playing.
You get that also on youtube.

I DO NOT WANT TO decry GMC. I wouldn't be here, if I didn't like it.
It's just curious to me

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 1 2008, 04:48 PM

What are "Lick of the day" other than free lessons ???

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:48 PM

Ohh man,now I really don't get you
So it'd be cool to write half-free lessons or?

Posted by: Vinod Jan 1 2008, 04:52 PM

+1
Huge free suff in here GMC,
Just to use The word FREE for advertising is not a issue to get a bad impression ,Actually its's almost for free (10$ per month)

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 04:52 PM

Damn you got it man

Well I think you don't know why I started this thread. Actually I wanted to talk if this is a good promotion or if it's deterring for people that come here and think it's free. When they see it's not they'll probably leave the page.

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 1 2008, 04:57 PM

The main reason that there are free elements (to me) are obviously to invite people to view the site and show them, with no obligation to subscribe right away, what they can get for a small fee.

Like a try before you buy?

Lick of the day, has a lick, then slowed down lick, with explanation and tab and is free--that sounds an aweful lot like a lesson to me. And you can still get more with not subscribing than you do at youtube, you can view the main video then visit each section for broken up tab and in most cases diagrams also.

You get good service for free...
You get GREAT service for a small fee....

Did you leave?!?

I dont think so

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 04:57 PM

Easy, man. No one here is trying to get you. We are just defending our home. I get what you are saying, really. It's just that we are pointing out that there are many free elements to GMC, including plenty of tab parts of lessons. So it is not really weird advertising to say free lessons...there ARE free lessons, not just videos. Just a nominal fee for the WHOLE thing.

And much to the sites credit, there are NO outrageous claims, ie: BECOME A GOD IN 2 DAYS

I hope you don't feel like you're being ganged up on, but if you kick an anthill, the ants will come pouring out

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 05:01 PM

Now I just want you to don't think I don't like GMC. I compared it to many sites and it's absolutely best.
Read my last post on page1 to understand what I mean.

This isn't against GMC it should be for gmc

Well I always say what I think but that may make you unpopular.

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 1 2008, 05:01 PM

Well I don't think they will be angry , because they should know that this quality of instructional material is only possible by paying such a small fee.And it is a small fee! + They get the FREE material stated before and a very good preview of the content they will be getting once they join..So its good and fair offer in my opinion.
I get your point but one word FREE in the title of the page doesn't have to always mean that this is voluntary web site or something

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 05:06 PM

That shouldn't be part of the discussion, because I totally agree with that. We all do, because otherwise we woudn't be here
I didn't want to attack anyone with this.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 05:09 PM

Constie,
Do not worry we know you love GMC too Its just as our members have pointed out there is sufficient enough free material to warrent saying "free lesson", not only if there free licks, videos, but theory lessons on the forum too.

Who would take one look at this place and think, ahhh not enough free lessons "im off"? Remember GMC is a business, even if the fee is fabulously low !!

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 05:11 PM

hehehe, funfun

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 05:19 PM

I've been called a lot of things, but "Politician"?

Now I'm hurt.

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 05:20 PM

Yeah I think we got it now. A lot is free, enough for you to write "free lessons"

Nice discussion, but whole gmc "against" me. What am I talking, it's just like it uses to be. (because I pick the wrong topics in the wrong forums )
Beware of new threads

DeepRoots I didn't leave because I knew Kris from freelicks. If I was on the search for free sites I would probably leave the page because it seems dubious to me.


You really are?
Ok you're like my parents

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 05:22 PM

Dang!!

I thought I was too immature for that.

Posted by: Vinod Jan 1 2008, 05:25 PM

I don't think either Whole GMC against you or you started a wrong topic.
It's great to have an open discussion and clear our minds.
This topic reminds us that we all love GMC

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 05:25 PM

let's just forget about that

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 1 2008, 05:37 PM

Guest2342 Says: " Free Lessions, Awsome!, lets check it out... oh man that guy is good i can't wait to learn this ("for free") Man that pavel can really shred.. lets learn that first part of the riff("For Free").. wait.. now i have to pay... ARRRGGG-*leaves site*

Kris says: "Mahahahahahahahahah.... wait.. "

GMC Communite says: ":D good thing we signed up"

Constie says: "silly GMC fourm said ppl wouldn't leave"



okay so theres my little skit for you.. lets pay attention to what the guest said because everyone else is just kind silly We all know that it is worth the money.. If the free attracts people and then they see that they can learn from the lessions then they will probably stay! In a way perhaps advertising low payment like "ALMOST FREE" would be more intriguing. This way anyone willing to pay for guitar lessions will be attracted here and anyone who wants free lessions may consider it because it is a very low price... We have to consider people who have different opinions of what free means. To me ( trying to pay of uni + my appartment + my bills and guitar hobbies all on what seems is a part time job) Free better mean Free!. Luckily i wasn't drawn here by the free. Infact .. i didn't even notice it ...

Just my 2 cents.. im trying to be dipliomatic.. i agree that all of our instructors need to be paid and Kris needs money to make the site even better but Constie has a point that our advertising is... missleading perhaps

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 1 2008, 05:37 PM

No I think this was a productive discussion
I'm happy we managed to get some common conclusions..And don't think that we are against you or something , we are just putting out our opinions like you did..Everyone has the right to say what they think..And we are glad to have you here participating in forum so we are waiting for your next threads heheheh

We=me

Cheers mate

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 1 2008, 05:37 PM

Lets throw some oil into the fire!!! :-D

I am on consties side.. Because on main page there is "Free guitar video lessons - Solo/lead and rythm" - if you mean those previews, than it should be "Free guitar video lesson previews" because lessons arent for free.. just those previews.

Those small "green parts" are parts of lesson, not lessons. So they are previews, how the full lesson looks. Surely... half of the people wouldnt be here if they wont be allowed to see, how the lessons look like - but you cant learn much from this small segment.

And licks of day doesnt contain any rythm pattern or riff, so its just solo (minilesson).. and you dont want to call the 5 second long show off a video lesson, dont you? And still.. "Free guitar video lessons - Solo/lead and rythm" - Where is the rythm part comming?

I love GMC too, there is lot of free stuff - but not lessons;) Lessons are the only thing, that you must pay for:) - you can visit forums, preview the lessons, take a "Lick of a day" minilesson (!!!) and take a look around the site.. but lessons are paid;)

Surely, GMC has to be paid - to has the high quality standart as it has. I have NO problem with that. At all.
But the Free guitar video lessons seems a bit misleading in my opinion. You know.. GMC is not free site:) It gives you a lot of things as a bonus for subscription or completely free. But lessons are paid:) Thats why you pay subscripton - to pay to instructors for their time and help:) For their lessons. We cant give it out for free... These lessons has to be PAID :-D

These are my two cents, now KILL ME, CROWD!! :-D


Long live GMC btw.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 1 2008, 05:44 PM

I would say that dubious is the wrong word for what you were trying to say here. misrepresented would be better. dubious would be the appropriate term if Kris used his advertising here to lure us in for the purpose of eating our brains.

no, I did not feel his advertising was misrepresenting the terms of use. he has free stuff. it is pretty standard and common for internet sites to have that, and advertise it, but have more for the paying customers.

as Uncreator wrote, it is dirt cheap anyway. Actually $8 a month if you do the 6 month plan.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 05:44 PM

Well its great to have an open discussion about these things, and there are many valid points from both arguments for sure.

But let me ask you this, does'nt GMC already work incredibly well ? the answer to that is of course YES!

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 05:50 PM

OOOHHHH....YES!
I have MORE oil....and gasoline and SEMTEX with blasting caps.

We should get professional opinions from the RIAA lawyers.
The lessons should be copyrighted materials that NOBODY can see, paid or not.
Not even the instructors can view lessons.

Posted by: Vinod Jan 1 2008, 05:52 PM

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 05:52 PM

Well said Smikey and Jakub.
Thanks for depicting my point of view

Sure the instructors have to be payed, GMC is a fair deal.
Money makes the world go 'round. We all know that

Damn dictionary. It's not easy to pick the right word if there are about 20

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 1 2008, 05:54 PM

GMC owns, is great, very cheap and almost perfect in general. But it's still not free. At least that's how I see it.

Posted by: Pavel Jan 1 2008, 05:58 PM

10$ fee is way to low, i can sure say it as instructor who spend loads of time creating vids

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 06:08 PM

Nobody forces you to make lessons.
Some people do it for free, because it's fun for them.
I don't think GMC can or should be an alternative for a real job.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 1 2008, 06:12 PM

actually based on the standard (Webster's) definition, it was a reasonable choice. but generally it is used for something more serious, often as "dubious intent". although it can mean doubtful also. at least that is my impression. then again, there have been times when I find I have giving a meaning to a word my whole life, that was not exactly correct, so maybe someone would disagree with me on this on.



Pavel is a college student, supplementing his income. Sound real job enough to me under his circumstances.

Posted by: Pavel Jan 1 2008, 06:12 PM

Yeah but you sure like seeing high quality lesson, don't you? Free sites offer totally basic and low quality lessons and NO instructor communication so that's why it can be considered a real job

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 06:13 PM

Ahhh this topic is ruining my GMC new years buzz

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 06:16 PM

*shouts* WHY CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 06:17 PM

Yeah I do To discuss this seriously we'd have to know what you get, but in fact I don't want to know and you won't tell

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 06:18 PM

Fair enough.

We should be able to get along almost for free.

Posted by: Iluha Jan 1 2008, 06:19 PM

Geez guys.. this thread feels like a thread on a free forum..

Posted by: Bondy Jan 1 2008, 06:19 PM

Gmc is totally worth the money its the same price as buying say Total guitar every month and the free issue well there isnt one it says free video and thats what u get so that should be end of topic now lets get onto more exciting things shall we

Posted by: Pavel Jan 1 2008, 06:19 PM

Hahahahaha still celebrating?? We're not ruining anything m8! Just a discussion!

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 06:19 PM

You didn't get that buzz for free, did you?

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 06:22 PM

I think we do. That's a discussion, nothing wrong with it?!?!
I get along with everyone no matter if I ask inconvenient questions or say things that are not easy to answer.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 06:22 PM

Hahaha I am just a little !!

I know mate its just I feel GMC is perfect the way it is

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 1 2008, 06:36 PM

I feel that GMC is like a mastercard commercial

New Guitar- 678$
Practice Amp- 300$
Patchords picks and strings- 50$
GMC- 10$ a month-- but priceless ...

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 06:38 PM

lol...Guitar Master Card

Posted by: fkalich Jan 1 2008, 06:43 PM

sometimes when you dig yourself into a hole, the best recourse is to climb out and say "sorry guys, my mistake!". generally the response is "forget it".

alternatively one can pursue the alternate strategy, and keep digging until you reach China. Wait, you are from Germany, you will eventually reach the middle of the Pacific Ocean I guess if this thread lasts long enough. Actually even in the US we don't reach China, that is a myth, I think we end up somewhere near New Zealand. We have GMC'ers who can fish us out of the ocean. However you may be in trouble, I don't think was have anyone here from Hawaii that I have seen.

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 06:46 PM

...

...

+1

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 1 2008, 06:56 PM

Awesome discussion here - I watched the thread going from 0 to over 50 replies in no time! Lots of feelings here - mostly love of course!

Constie - I agree with you excpet on the "should not be considered a real job" - of course gmc should be considered a real job! I cannot think of a better place for outrageously skilled guitarists to work!

So back to topic - wouldn't it be more honest to actually specify that we offer 400 videos for free out of 3000? Absolutely! However, when advertising there is no space for long sentences. We include one word ("free") which sais it all - we need the rest of the space to explain what the site is about.

I hope we don't offend anyone with this!

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 06:58 PM

mmmmmmmmm brains

Posted by: Robin Jan 1 2008, 06:59 PM

Indeed.

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 1 2008, 07:04 PM

fkalich was RIGHT!!!

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 07:06 PM

BRAINS !!!!!

Posted by: Owen Jan 1 2008, 07:12 PM

All the theory lessons are free Do they not count as free lessons?

I see what Constie is saying, although it is rather pedantic to say that there isnt any 'free' lessons at GMC, in terms of video lessons you can access the full tab (although I dont know if this was Kris' intention ) and usually a couple of video segments without signing up. Thats a video showing you how the excercise works and a full run down of how to play it at the very least - that looks to me like a lesson.

The truth is that its a minor detail and no-one here much cares to dispute its being there in the first place anyway, but poor Constie, as fkalich says, seems to be digging himself into a hole that could just as easily be avoided and see an end to all this kerfuffle

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 07:12 PM

@Kris I meant I don't think you can get enough money ONLY with gmc.(Well I don't know what you get )

I don't know what you mean.
Are you trying to make me feel guilty for something

I said forget it to this ONE point, I thought it was a joke.

I don't get what you want from me, stop blaming me, I'm not poor or anything else.

The problem is some people don't try to understand my arguments and come up with something that has been finished before.

Posted by: Owen Jan 1 2008, 07:14 PM

I think he's just telling you to let it go mate, its not worth fighting your way into a corner about something so small

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 1 2008, 07:16 PM

Owen I must say your post was excellent in explaining things really well ! You managed to say what I wanted in a few paragraphs

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 07:20 PM

Ok delete this or whatever.
If I were you, I would also think I'm crazy.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 1 2008, 07:23 PM

Firstly, I dont want to sound rude or offend anyone:-P Its definitely not my reason;)

Secondly:
Why to push him there (corner)?:-P Its his opinion, and there is NO NEED for him, to say "Sorry guys.. my fault" for thinking something different - he is not forcing anyone, to do anything. He just asked for clarification:
"What are the free Solo/Lead and rhytm lessons?" "Lick of the day? Or previews? Or those free green parts of lessons?."
GMC is open minded and straight society, he can think and ask w/e he wants;). Listen or be deaf;) This is your choice:)

Anyways... its Kris's buisness whatever he puts on main page and its title.. This is not democracy:-P Thats why GMC prospers:-P Like it or hate it.. GMC still rules:-D

Posted by: Smells Jan 1 2008, 07:23 PM

I think maybe Constie had you not have put

quote: "Also the mainpage says that. Very dubious in my view."

You may not have found yourself in the firing line, it questions something that all of us, and indeed yourself holds most dear, the almighty GMC!

otherwise it was a perfectly innocent question which I`m sure would have been discussed and answered without you looking like the bad guy, (which of course your not), its a great discussion, but I`m pretty sure your sitting there amazed at the response?

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 07:34 PM

This topic was for me like asking a christian for evidences for a god
Like question a religion and you are the pope.

Thanks Jakub making this clear, I feel like pushed in the corner and the pope still wants me to confess.

Hope the Christians here will pardon me.

Posted by: Smells Jan 1 2008, 07:38 PM

awww dont worry mate, be positive, it started a great discussion

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 1 2008, 07:45 PM

I am here, to protect all the non-believers:-D
Anyways, we all taught something here, didn't we? I wont spoil it for you, figure it out;)

Posted by: Constie Jan 1 2008, 08:01 PM

Thanks. I think we can stop here.

Posted by: Josiah Jan 1 2008, 10:13 PM

I understand your point perfectly Constie. I believe its valuable to have members such as yourself who have the courage to bring up potentally unpopular topics when they perceive it may be harmful to the GMC community. Thanks!

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 1 2008, 10:31 PM

Alls well that ends well!

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 1 2008, 11:03 PM

I understand very well what Constie is talking about, because I as well was very confused when i looked at the site for the first time.

In some youtube ads and other places (which i cant remember) it said, "Free Guitar Lessons" so well, all i could find "free" was the Lick of The Day Lessons (at that time), then i realised there were free theory lessons, and a free video from each lesson.

Like i said when i introduced myself here, i browsed alot around here before i joined, a couple of months. And well, the main reason that I was confused about "Free Guitar Lessons"was that, of course, I wanted more. But that cant happen, unless you join (and im glad i did).

So Constie said "this can be very dubious/confusing for other people" and its very truth at a certain point, because i was very confused too. I browsed this site entirely, like if it was a building or something, trying to find those "Hidden Guitar Lessons" but then it hit me, you gotta pay, to get the best

Posted by: fkalich Jan 1 2008, 11:17 PM

i am starting to think that Kris is more complex than he lets on.

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 11:46 PM

Posted by: Constie Jan 2 2008, 12:35 AM

I want to thank you very much for your kind words.
I'm happy to see some people appreciate what I do. That really means a lot to me.

Posted by: Hisham Jan 2 2008, 12:41 AM

greens are free for all even whome arent regesterd yet

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 12:50 AM

Yeah,this is the issue of written text and not having chance to talk in person
Your point is quite good tho Constie but I think you're pushing it in wrong way a bit,imho.
I mean,what is your suggestion,what type of advertisement should Kris use?
I still believe FREE is more than fair since there are many free things on GMC
and you can't have everything free,same in real life.

And I would like to say one thing about your comment related to Pavel I think,
something like "no one is pushing you to make lesson..."
This is Kris's site after all,he's offering jobs,you may like it or not.
And since Kris understands that you cannot have really classy things without paying
I think we should all be aware of that too.
You said there are some places where all lessons are free,right?
Do you like those lessons,whole concept,daily update etc? Guess not
Ok,let's say I'm not payed but I do contribute to GMC.
Trust me,it'd be maybe one lesson per month,something in a hurry etc.
I'm pro musician for over 10 years and I just don't have time to make things for free.
That's the life I'm afraid and still GMC is the greatest guitar site I've ever seen,
offering MANY free features before you actually sign-up for whole package
and I'm damn glad to be a part of it!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 2 2008, 01:04 AM

Note to Constie.....Hey, man, I am ABSOLUTELY glad that you began this thread! Nobody here should be afraid to voice an opinion. I feel that the discussion that followed gave us all a lot to think about. I, for one, have a deeper appreciation for what we receive here. I think that it is phenomenal not only for the quality of the lessons, but also for the frequency....there is NO WAY that anyone can keep up with all the challenges put out here. Add to that the fact that you can get quality answers to your questions DIRECTLY from the instructors, support from all the other members, collaborations, etc. and you have an unbeatable site. I mean really, I've read posts where Pavel and Muris have been asked a question, and they have asked the student to send a video of themselves playing it so they could analyze it!! (They are just two examples; I'm sure I've missed a few). All of this for no extra charge. So yes, GMC is PHENOMENAL, and one of a kind.

I have also decided that maybe if I spend more time in music-related forums and lessons, and less time in the off-topic forums, then I might improve faster. Maybe.

Maybe Kris and Company will look at the advertising wording due to your thread. I understand your points, and as can be seen by other posts, other members do too. So thanks for the lively debate, dude.

After all, how boring would it be if every thread only got the response "+1"?

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 01:10 AM

Freddie Fourfingers is totally right!!
Constie opened great debate,maybe in wrong "smell" cause of misunderstanding
but still great debate,thanks to that from me as well!

Posted by: Smurkas Jan 2 2008, 01:16 AM

Well one option could be to actually offer a couple of the lessons for free instead of offering small parts of lots of lessons for free. I personally think that would be a better idea than the model the site is using now. I as a new visitor to the site would get a better view of what a whole lesson consists of instead of watching one or two small parts from the whole and trying to figure it out on my own.

That would make it easier to make an informed decision on if I want to join or not. Then those lessons could be linked directly from the main page as FREE LESSONS making it really easy for new visitors. This way, the issue with if the site is actually offering free lessons would also be resolved because then it actually would be whole FREE lessons.


/Marcus

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 01:24 AM

Ohh,well this is good idea,bravo!! +1
Must wait for Kris to give his statement but it sounds
quite reasonable AND good for upcoming members.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 2 2008, 01:27 AM

MHMMM!! a few free sample lessions (full lessions) might just be the ticket to get people to join.. can't give away too many secrets tho

Posted by: stratman33 Jan 2 2008, 01:29 AM

this is a great idea, could get some guests hooked really quick

Posted by: Constie Jan 2 2008, 01:30 AM

That's fair of you so far.

But I want to make one last thing clear, which seems like it doesn't want to be understood:
I am willing to pay a free for gmc, because the lessons are great!!!

I really never said this is wrong or you should work for free. It was just a little curious from Pavel to say we should pay more. I wanted to tell him there are people that do lessons for free(bad quality I know), but here at gmc you get money for it which is great.

The most things I had to vindicate myself were things I never said.
I don't want to vindicate anymore.

I have no idea what to write instead of free, as you said it's not my website. I wanted to point out a "mistake".

Good night

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 01:31 AM

Kris,may I ask one thing,not to give some of my lessons as free??
Joking of course,idea is great!!

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 2 2008, 01:32 AM

Kudos to Smurkas. That's a good idea coming out of all this debating back and forth. And if it gets used in some form, resulting in more members and more success for GMC, it will all be Constie's fault.

Posted by: Constie Jan 2 2008, 01:32 AM

Maybe one from each instructor (different styles etc.)

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 2 2008, 01:33 AM

... of course none of muris's lessions could be free.. then they would know too much .. lol

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 01:34 AM

I play few styles

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 2 2008, 01:35 AM

I think that it would also be good for us to remember, myself included, that a lot of "communication" is lost if it is not face to face. It is easy to misunderstand someone if you only have the printed word to read and not tone, facial expressions, and so on. I apologize if I misunderstood.

Posted by: Constie Jan 2 2008, 01:40 AM

At least a half

Ok and ALL lessons from Muris


You're absolutely right. There is some kind of communication problem in forums.
Most people here make lots of smileys which is nice indeed, but I feel like in a madhouse then.
Like a bunch of mass murderers when they're searching for victims


edit: yeah I got 1000 views YEAH

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 01:41 AM

Knew it

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 2 2008, 02:42 AM

I don't think it would be good to change a system that works good...Don't change a wining combination..Its bad karma

Posted by: Carlo Jan 2 2008, 03:01 AM

Let me say that I didn't find any sites that give you free access to the a good selection of lessons with no hassles or interruptions to register, and it is the main reason for my joining as I am always looking for good value.
Ciao
Carlo

Posted by: swingline Jan 2 2008, 03:11 AM

There isn't way too much learning on the free sites.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 2 2008, 09:42 AM

Fantastic debate here!

I like the idea of offering a few completely free lessons!

I don't like the idea of removing the free system we got though (with one or two free video per lesson) - at least not for now!

When I started working with instructional websites all the content I offered was free - what fascinated me was the possibility to reach out to hundreds of guitarists (and later on thousands!). Unfortunately it struck me that there are limitations to the free format - for instance we could never have 25 instructors providing quality material if it weren't for the member fee (as pointed out).

So - I still want our website to have continuous value for non-paying members. This is both a business strategy - but also a way to get more visitors (although most are "free" visitors). We want GMC to attract awesome instructors not only thanks to the comission we are paying - but also because being in the top three spots on gmc start page means getting a lot of people listening to the instructors music and watching their videos!

After all, that is why I started doing this - the business part of it came much later. The brain-eating started yesterday

Posted by: blindwillie Jan 2 2008, 11:05 AM

HAHAHA! My kind of humor.

Posted by: blindwillie Jan 2 2008, 11:16 AM

+1
I understand, and agree somewhat, on Constie's point, and if I didn't that would be reason enough for him to voice it.
To me it's a misleading way of advertising but that's how advertising goes. They are ment to catch your attention. I haven't noticed the "Free" GMC ads before simply because I'm ad-blind. People are so fed with commercials that they don't notice them anymore. The ad business have started to note that, so expect sneakier (more annoying) ads in a future close to you.

Posted by: Smurkas Jan 2 2008, 12:03 PM

Kris - The site can of course use both the free system it has now together with a free lessons section. I think a free lessons section would attract more business and it would be easier for newcomers looking to get an idea about what the site is all about.

Right now a new visitor can of course click any lesson and get that small preview but that isn't really explained anywhere. I know I myself asked myself the very question that started this when I visited the site the first time (that was waaaaay back).

A free section would also give you the chance to specifically target new comers with yout content. They can get an introduction to the site and how it works etc. etc.



/Marcus

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 2 2008, 12:11 PM

Great idea!

Just by choosing 5-10 lessons from the archive, making all videos green, then putting a link to them on the main page/video lessons page could be very very effective. This + the lick of the day would make a visitor have no choice but to keep coming back to the site and eventually register so that they can carry on getting their 'fix' of GMC. As Smurkas said- this will help a visitor understand what they will be paying for.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 2 2008, 01:52 PM

And again I will remind everyone that all the theory lessons are free (mine, plus Vinods sight reading course, so there is significant free content on the site.

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 2 2008, 02:09 PM

And 99.999+% of people who read your lessons learn something concrete that made no sense to them before.

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Jan 2 2008, 02:13 PM

Or had mistakenly believed made sense tothem before!

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 2 2008, 02:14 PM

exactly, me included there

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 2 2008, 02:26 PM

Thanks guys

Posted by: PlayAllDay Jan 2 2008, 02:39 PM

or they learn something concrete that causes a whole lot of other things they didn't even know existed before to suddenly make no sense to them at all either - as they wander in the quirky and fascinating quagmire that is musical theory
(calling "Andrew, Andrew, please help me I am all lost, it's so hard, my head is hurting from all this thinking") - and then suddenly they realise that now they must keep searching and searching till they understand EVERYTHING Mwahahahahaha
and voila... they are trapped in theory analysis mind fuzzle land forever!!!!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 2 2008, 03:15 PM

*** Shh! Don't tell everyone my dastardly plans! ***

Posted by: Constie Jan 2 2008, 05:17 PM

The first video should always be viewable.
This is one of the main reasons I joined: you see what you'll pay for. And you decide it's worth it's price

But Kris, did you know you get acess to every tab without registering. You just can't view the videos.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 2 2008, 06:37 PM

Or, make a completely new section - What you get by subscription - fill it with pictures of us discussing a forum, clips of collaborations on youtube, write there about GMC Bands, projects, GMC T-shirts, contests AND a few complete, completely free video lessons - take one of the best - for example pavels, 'cause he gives a spoken description too.. If ya (Kris) want, I can make list of all the things, GMC gives you- or we can make a brainstorming thread... I'll be proud to participate!:)

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 2 2008, 06:53 PM

Or maybe GMC already works well and dosent need to be fixed

Posted by: RobM Jan 2 2008, 06:54 PM

ROFL, where do your kids go to school? My kids cost me at least $50.00 per month "EACH" and that's if they only get the hot lunch, most of the time they get the food that is on the side menu instead of the tasteless hot lunch. Then the price goes way up! Whoever came up with the specs for the amount of food for children in the school lunch program should be forced to eat that amount of food every day for a month, the specs would go way up I can guarantee that. Every day my kids come home they are starving.

Posted by: Pavel Jan 2 2008, 07:06 PM

RobM - he meant 10$ a day And i remember those tasteless meals in the ground school...

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 2 2008, 07:21 PM

2 Mattacuk:
You know.. GMC worked well a year ago.. But where we are now, we wont be able to get without creativity, will, work and improving ourselves.. I dont want to repair anything, we just found out a point of controversy - and out of this debate a improvement idea has emerged - thinking this way, we wouldn't have any singing lessons now, we wouldn't have new instructors, members, site interface and better forums.

Its nice to stick to traditions.. but even thou some things work, there might be a better way:) And if there is a will and an idea, that might prove usefull, I see no reason, not to try:)

If there was idea and no will, or bad idea and will to do it, then there will be no point in discussion:) But I think, that this is a nice idea to give guests a straight list of what we can give them and let them try, what it looks like:)

Also, we can offer them a few free lessons, if they do something for us - either register as a guest (without paying - registering just for getting these free lessons:) - it is not nessecity to register, it could be just some kind of button, that will have a counter set upon it...), so we would have an precise database, that would show us, if this is effective, or we can just let them vote for GMC as best page on 100bestguitarsites.com or what the website is:)

Posted by: Carlo Jan 2 2008, 07:45 PM

Wouldn't many people be dissappointed when they finally register and realize they are getting the same as what you get for free and the end of the day we bought for the lessons and if you are getting more through the forum then all the better, but most people will buy for the quality of the lessons and In my opinon the way it is set up now gives you alot of info...remeber too much of a good.......
Carlo

Posted by: Muris Jan 2 2008, 07:50 PM

Yeah

I believe couple of free lessons would be more than enough imho.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 2 2008, 07:53 PM

I totally appreciate what you are trying to say, and I agree that these discussions spawn great new ideas for sure !!

Maybe your right, ive seen alot of good ideas over the last couple pages. Some may be worth trying!!

It is just I think that in this instance Kris has got the balance spot on already This is of course just my opinion only

Posted by: Smells Jan 2 2008, 07:56 PM

I agree with you here Matt, I think the site format rocks as it is, its a winning combination imo, if it aint broke etc

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 2 2008, 07:57 PM

Totally. We must have these discussions for sure, afterall GMC is about community and building something special together.

Its just in this case, I think it works perfect !!

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 2 2008, 08:00 PM

I meant.. like.. One lesson.. or two:-D not to give everything:-D
and they wont be dissappointed - because they will see the HUUUUUUUGE list of things, they will get by joining:) so they will know exactly, what will they get for their bucks - the main thing, when you want to profit, is to know, how to sell your stuff:) You must show them every way, in which it will improve their not only guitar life, but social life and cultural life too:-D They can actually meet here people of same hobby as them from all around the world... GMC is really great, but we have so many chances, to get even better..
to become GMC => GODLIKE MASTERCLASS :-D

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 2 2008, 08:07 PM

I like your ideas Jakub, maybe the idea of one or two free lessons might work..

Posted by: Smurkas Jan 2 2008, 08:15 PM

To Carlo - Are you actually saying that if the site offered like two or three free sample lessons you wouldn't pay for the rest of the content? I personally think that there's little or no risk that someone would watch one or two free sample lessons and then go "Hey that's all I needed!" and move on. I got hooked to another guitar site primarily because of their great sample lessons and I think this site is lacking in that area, that's why I suggested the idea.

I just think that the way you can preview the site now might not hook you to the GMC experience since just getting the playthrough plus one free part of the lesson makes it nigh impossible to actually practice the lesson and thus get a feel for it. It would also be a great excuse to create a section specifically for those who visit the site for the first time and give them a good introduction to what it's all about.

Right now, honestly if I came to the site through the ad about free lessons that has sparked so much controversy, I would be confused about where they are and it would probably take awhile before I figured out that it's only those small snippets that are free. Now maybe that's just me but that is much more likely to get me to go "Hey that's not what he advertised" and feel a bit miffed even though the content on the site is great.


/Marcus

Posted by: Carlo Jan 2 2008, 09:18 PM

I might agree with one or 2 lessons but I'll tell you I'm impressed with the content on the site cause thats not what I singed up for but for me its added value on top of getting the lessons.... all I'm saying is if you oversell you might set urealistic expectations.
Carlo

Posted by: Tomy Jeon Jan 2 2008, 09:47 PM

That's a brilliant idea. People will be addicted after one or two lessons and they will have to submit to GMC's awesomeness! Muahahahaha!!!

Posted by: Muris Jan 3 2008, 03:59 AM

Scary laugh,I like that

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 3 2008, 04:30 AM

all our schemes to take over the world deserve scary laughs.. heheheh.... *silently watching and grinning in the darkness*

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 3 2008, 03:28 PM

Anyway, I think, it would be a good idea(I am a curious guy, you see:) ), to make (maybe only for ourselves... maybe for guests:) ) a list of things, you can do on GMC without subscription and with subscription:)

Posted by: Constie Jan 4 2008, 10:52 PM

I try to summarize:

- A lot is free at gmc (of course not the video-lessons )
- the current system works well, thus far
- The advertising is a little curious has worked thus far and is absolutely mandatory for the survival of gmc (edit by Kris)
- we could make a list of what's free (Kris would have to agree to put it on the mainpage)
..If we have such a list gmc doesn't need to publish complete lessons for free <- That's what I think


P.S. Freelicks will not be closed (will it be? I would be really sad)

Posted by: swingline Jan 4 2008, 10:57 PM

Wasn't one of Kris's early lessons for free at one point, just as a sample for guests? I'm not sure, I swear I remember things that never happened all the time.

Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 11:05 PM

Hello to all my fret-mates. Here's what I think:
I think that GMC has TOO many things for FREE!

Eddie

Posted by: Constie Jan 5 2008, 12:05 PM

Haha, I didn't know how to explain that it's okay but it IS curious

swingline: The lick of the day is free

eddiecat: I don't think so, because at the moment they have to be found by the visitor.

Kris: So what are you gonna do? Leave it as it is? I wouldn't have a problem with that I just want a result

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 5 2008, 12:29 PM

Constie you are missing an important concept when having a discussion with other people - you cannot draw the conclusion that something is in a certain way because you think it is like that.

Instead you have to draw the conclusion that "some people think that the advertising is curious" or even better, you can specify who thinks it:

"Constie and Jakob think GMC advertising is curious" (I am sorry if I mistook the names here or missed someone).

By the way you are not alone to confuse facts with opinions - my grandmother used to do it all the time.

Posted by: Owen Jan 5 2008, 01:39 PM

I think this topic title is misleading, every time I see;

I cant help but think - "Yes Please!"

Posted by: Smells Jan 5 2008, 01:52 PM

I understand what your saying but I cant help think "no thanks" I happily pay my subscription and will keep on doing so, and also think its just a snip of a fee, I`m suprised its not more when you look at the content thats available on the site, and as mentioned before the theory available here is free but in my opinion priceless, not only that, someone (Andrew) will "free"ly give up his time to answer anything on that subject, along with all the other instructors.

Imo you get what you pay for in life (in general ofc) I`d rather keep GMC the way it is and not open it up to constant abuse by any passer by.

Posted by: Owen Jan 5 2008, 02:11 PM

Haha, I didnt really mean that in a serious fashion - I'm happy to keep paying (its not a lot after all) but the title implies that its offering something so thats why I said that and yknow - anything for free is nice but I understand business doesnt work like that and that if GMC was offered for free it wouldnt be half as good.

In short I was just having a larf but maybe it didnt come out that way

Posted by: Smells Jan 5 2008, 02:24 PM

lol, I realised that mate, it wasnt really aimed at you specifically I was just adding some extra thoughts to the thread and your post kinda sparked off a thought, that was all you know I lubs ya lots

Posted by: Constie Jan 5 2008, 02:36 PM

I just try to do my best. No one else was about to do this, so I tried.
I am done for this thread.

Posted by: Smurkas Jan 5 2008, 02:38 PM

To Kris - I don't think it is going to far to say that Constie actually has stated a fact, not "just" an opinion. It is a fact that the advertising states free lessons and it's also a fact that there are no free lessons on the site. Ok that that's curious is an opinion (or a conclusion) but it's based on certain facts. And do you think people would be confused (like I was when I first showed up) if people found a free lesson like the advertising says?

There is of course alot of free content like people have said but they aren't free lessons.



/Marcus

Posted by: Owen Jan 5 2008, 02:46 PM

I think we're going round in circles now

Posted by: Constie Jan 5 2008, 02:51 PM

Yes we do. We had suggestions and many more. Now it's Kris' turn to think about it and may change something.

Thanks Smurkas for your support

Posted by: Understudy Jan 5 2008, 03:14 PM

[quote name='Smurkas' date='Jan 5 2008, 08:38 AM' post='113344']
To Kris - I don't think it is going to far to say that Constie actually has stated a fact, not "just" an opinion. It is a fact that the advertising states free lessons and it's also a fact that there are no free lessons on the site. Ok that that's curious is an opinion (or a conclusion) but it's based on certain facts. And do you think people would be confused (like I was when I first showed up) if people found a free lesson like the advertising says?

I have been away for several weeks and just came back reading this. As I am late into the fray here I wil be brief. How can anyone state that there are no free lessons here ???? I read and studied Andrew's theory lessons for 2 solid days before I became a member here. Find me another guitar site that provides that kind of content for nothing. There is more free content on GMC than anywhere else, along with a community not found on any other site. What about all the picks Muris has given away ? FREE of cost to alot of you, who paid shipping ? I can assure you that the recipients did not. This site has become home to most of us , for it's content and community. To state these are "FACTS" as in the quoted post, give us facts , not an interpretation of facts please. The fact is, your facts are incorrect.


Regards, Ronnie

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 5 2008, 04:00 PM

I agree with owen this thread is going around in circles !!

Posted by: Smikey2006 Jan 5 2008, 04:01 PM

And that makes me a sad panda... (commenting on avatar )

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 5 2008, 04:08 PM

Panda Qoute; "The first party of the first panda may sue the second-party panda unless that panda was said panda aforementioned panda."

Posted by: Smurkas Jan 5 2008, 06:05 PM

To Understudy - I was under the impression that the discussion was about whether there was free video lessons on the site or not, noone is disputing the fact that there's free theory lessons. I'm not going to go googling for you but finding free theory lessons is not hard, rather the opposite is true.

I learned theory for free by reading it on free sites all over the web so yes that kind of content is available for free on many other sites. In fact I don't think I've found a site where you have to pay just for text theory lessons.

When it comes to community/free stuff I know of at least one other guitar site that pretty much matches this one (my opinion) that offers free lessons from their lesson library. In fact I explicitly stated in my post that there is indeed free content on the GMC site. However I could have made my post clearer by explicitly stating that there aren't any free video lessons, only small video lesson samples and as far as I know that is a fact.

As far as I know this was all that Constie asked about in the beginning and I still don't understand why people are getting so upset. I have never stated that there's no free content on the site and I don't think Constie has either. In fact post numer 35 by Jakub Luptovec is a very well written post on what this was all about from the beginning and I do believe the facts as he presents them there in that post are true and correct.



/Marcus

Posted by: Constie Jan 5 2008, 07:03 PM

I want to say something to all the people that replied to this topic seriously.
Thanks for thinking about how to improve gmc, thanks for taking your time and come up with ideas.
And thanks for being impartially. I appreciate this

This thread is done now. PLEASE close it!

Posted by: Muris Jan 5 2008, 08:10 PM

Not yet,I'd give final statement to....Fkalich

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 5 2008, 08:12 PM

Fkalich is my hero

Posted by: Owen Jan 5 2008, 08:26 PM

Haha, I think - like Andrew, that I only agree with his arguments half the time but perhaps we could be nice and reserve him the last word

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 5 2008, 08:28 PM

But if you agree or not, his last word is always fantasticaly entertaining to read

Posted by: Owen Jan 5 2008, 08:29 PM

I concur (agreeing was becoming boring ), but only on the condition that he uses his 8 cats as a metaphor or simile in his argument, which is generally pretty often

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 5 2008, 08:31 PM

9 out of 10 cats cant be wrong.... ROFL

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 5 2008, 08:44 PM

I dont think, that there is ANY need for ANY last word - if thread opener said, that this thread should be closed, it should be done immediately. I am sure, that after things, some members said, Constie doesn't feel to good about this thread and I fully understand, that he is uncomfortable with this thread.

Everything's being said, you have the picture.. done.

(dont want to sound rude, but i feel with constie...)

Posted by: Muris Jan 5 2008, 08:47 PM

We all do,maybe we just have a little bit
different points of view on some topics

Posted by: Nobody Jan 5 2008, 11:26 PM

Hi! :]

The fact that GMC isn't free makes me sleep normally. I woulnd't sleep 1 minute if I knew that these guys here get nothing for the great work they do, and that any moment they can say "To hell with it!" !!!

And actually the site should have "FREE" written everywhere on it! If you don't pay you get great theory lessons by Andrew, a endless supply of inspiration, very much knowledge has been put in this forum, and many more things.

And think about it. I brosed this site every day for 2 months(!!) before I found a way to register(credit cards aren't something everybody has). Should have I done it if there wasn't anything free?

Hristian

Posted by: PlayAllDay Jan 6 2008, 12:01 AM

I guess its a bit like the wiki page - your articles will be edited mercilessly by the community , so be aware of that before you choose to write one...
and your threads will be discussed mercilessly also; as we all have opinions and love to talk , joke, laugh, be happy, like each other very much, say we disagree in an agreeable fashion etc etc
So if nobody takes anything too personally we will all be fine.

Posted by: Joey Jan 7 2008, 03:15 AM

hell im in high school and lunch is 10 bucks a week lol

Posted by: Rolls Jan 7 2008, 01:22 PM

Here are my 2 cents :

I think having the word "Free" in the advertisements is vital. The more people who view the site the better. As you all know it is not only instructors giving advice on lessons and tips/tricks etc., but members as well. Also, having potential new instructors checking the site out is always a good thing. The more different styles/types of lessons the better.

Does the advertisement say "ALL GUITAR LESSONS ARE FREE?" or "FREE GUITAR LESSONS?" There are free guitar lessons and lessons that you must be a member to get the full deal. I personally am extremely happy with the way things are now at GMC. I playing continues to improve everyday by using this site and I know I wouldn't be at the same level without this site.

Cheers,
Rolls

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 7 2008, 02:47 PM

Pls read history posts, this has already been discussed to very deep height and all the thread opener actually pleased this thread to be closed. Havent happened yet, but I think it would be suitable, to leave him a rest.

With regards,
Phoenix

Posted by: Smells Jan 7 2008, 02:51 PM

I agree its been discussed in length but if someone wants to add an opinion that hasnt already then I think its their right to do so, they may even have an idea that is worth discussing further, who knows, if you arent happy with the thread (or the topic starter) then dont read it

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 7 2008, 04:38 PM

+1 !

Posted by: Muris Jan 7 2008, 05:23 PM

Absolutely!!
This is not a matter of just few member but whole community.
Thanks to thread opener of course!!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 9 2008, 02:31 AM

Interesting perspective from Mark, who just joined after browsing the free stuff for a year :

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=10488&view=findpost&p=115827

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 9 2008, 10:06 AM

You are right Andrew that's very interesting! Thanks for connecting that topic to this thread!

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 9 2008, 10:15 AM

Andrew beat me too it, It gave me a big smile when I saw it

Posted by: JWBauer Jan 9 2008, 07:29 PM

Yah! The free caught my attention too and I used the "free" lessons to get a feel for the site. If I didn't like what I saw I would have just gone somewhere else. The going rate for personal lessons her where I live is about $25-$35 per half hour. For what I pay for 1 hour of personal lessons I can create my own lesson plan and learn what I want to learn when I want to learn it. Shoot for a half hour lesson you just start getting warmed up and then it's time to go. Love this site!

Posted by: Nighthawk Jan 11 2008, 08:51 PM

Well, people who see that GMC is not completely free and leave because of this reason should really leave and never come back again because i guess they are all ***** ****!!! I find the GMC fee is nothing. Actually I really like to pay this little amout of money because it's very very well invested for me. It may sound strange but I really like to pay those guys because they are not only professional guitar players but they also know how to teach things and that is definetely the keypoint. I used to have a private "real instructor" and he taught me almost nothing at all even though he was a damn good player. But he was a complete loser in teaching things and I paid 55 Euros a month ! So keep providing us with great stuff GMC instructors !I'Ve been learning ten times more for those 2 month since I am a member with gmc than in almost 3 years in my "real" guitar lessons.
All of those guys should take this into consideration!!!!!!

As Muris sais - thanks for the great words but please watch your language.--Kris

Posted by: Muris Jan 11 2008, 08:56 PM

Thanks for great post but please watch out for words like this,ok?

Thanks once more!!

Posted by: Nighthawk Jan 11 2008, 10:00 PM

Oh, ok yes I will !!!
Cya

Posted by: Constie Jan 11 2008, 11:53 PM

I have to say something you:

You say your guitar teacher teached you less that gmc but was more expensive.
You have half an hour or an hour a week with your guitar-teacher while you can practise gmc the whole day. How could he ever teach you as much in less time. one hour vs. 15 hours??

In fact gmc can not replace my guitar-teacher because it's a different kind of learning and communicating.
A "real" teacher can provide you more than you may think. F.e. tell you how to adjust the guitar and stuff like that.
At gmc it's almost only learning lessons (I know the collaborations, but I don't like to record and transfer via internet).
With a teacher you can jamm, you learn how to improvise the right way and it's more straight fortward, I think.

Instead of gmc you could also use the tabs from ultimateguitar and learn songs from bands you like. Sorry for saying this but it's true.
A friend of mine did so and he got sooooo fast on guitar in such a short time. I was damn jealous and because I'm lazy I decided to join gmc.

Don't get me wrong I like it here, the lessons offer me more styles than I would ever find on UG, but if you are just about to improve speed etc than it's just learning. No matter where.

So what I finally want to say is: You learn the most with teacher AND gmc (UG, or whatever) because you're not only sitting alone in your room in front of the pc to practise.
That would drive me insane by the time.

Posted by: Muris Jan 12 2008, 02:06 PM

Don't tell us THIS is the issue?

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 02:14 PM

You may dislike me for saying that.
Ok I also wanted to learn tapping and stuff but seriously I'm too lazy learn the whole song from tabulature.
I need something visual.

And I think that's what almost all people want here.
If I request a lesson "In style of ..." couldn't I just download a tab and learn a song from that band? Would be the same effect.

Posted by: Muris Jan 12 2008, 02:25 PM

I'm sorry to hear all this so no further comments from me on the subject,sorry.

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 02:27 PM

It's okay for me, cause we all have our own opinions.
Mine seems to be unpopluar but however I will always tell.

You could tell us, what you think gmc provides that tabulators can't, instead of being upset.

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 12 2008, 02:32 PM

GMC as a last resort. interesting.

Was a first choice for me


edit: you'ce gotta remember that GMC offers advice such as the though process and theory behind each lesson- something that isnt explained in a tablature. Also you are paying for a helpful community that stay patient and always want to help.

Fine you cant jam- but there are collaborations with helpful feedback on each entry (and there are many many different styles to choose from) but back to jamming, iv seen NINJAM mentioned a few times and i wouldnt mind checking it out

Unfortunatley my minds all ready made up about the benefits of GMC, maybe i've just got too loyal over the past year, maybe it is how you see it? Either way, GMC works for me and i plan on staying for atleast a half-decade

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 02:34 PM

Did I say so? Why are you always picking one thing out of 100 things I said, and regive it the wrong way.

forums sucks -.-

Posted by: Hemlok Jan 12 2008, 02:50 PM

Crikey! This thread is hot!

I will just quote the dictionary for a moment.

Tada! GMC saying they offer Free Guitar Video Lessons is correct. Licks of the day and the green videos in the video lessons, if you don't learn something from that then IBAMU!

----------


Random quote I stumbled across not so long ago and enjoyed(not saying this to anyone in particular, just saying it):

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 12 2008, 03:14 PM

Well constie, you know a discussion is one thing, but I think you have totally missed the whole concept of GMC.
Kris set out to make a totally uinique learning experience that would stand out from the rest. Gmc.net is successful at its core not only because of its unique approach to teaching through original material - but because of the unique sense of core values members have in discussing topics and issues amoungst each other.

You may belive haveing your say is always a good idea no matter what the outcome. But this is a personal guidline I for one do not follow. You will notice our forum is typically one if not the nicest places to hang out on the planet. This is because we think about the outcome of what we type before we type it.

You may think our forum sucks, but if you sit back for a moment and think about things you will realise that it is not the forum that sucks.

Posted by: Smells Jan 12 2008, 03:37 PM

if the forum sucks why be a part of it?

if you bring yourself to the forfront with your opinion there is no problem, everyone is entitled to an opinion and of course from time to time that opinion is going to be unpopular, but debate is good, sometimes good changes can come from these type of things.

I understand that you have been a little misunderstood when starting this thread, however, I think if you read back some of your comments, you could have chosen some of them a little more wisely.

Mattacuks last reply sums it up extremely well imo

Posted by: Nighthawk Jan 12 2008, 03:39 PM

What can I say....I Do Entirely Agree With You!!!

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 04:12 PM

It's funny: I said "forumS suck" and right after that you act like I said "gmc forum sucks"
And that was exactly what I wanted to say.

I think I'm the one who thinks most about this on the whole world.

Do you remember how this all started? Someone said his teacher isn't as good as gmc and I wanted to tell him what's the advantage of a real teacher.
I said if you are about to SPEED UP you can also use UG, and that I use gmc because I learn more styles and it's visual.


Now you can think about what I wrote before you reply to this. Read it 10times and get everything I said. So I don't have to write it again and again.



We've had that in school yesterday. If a human has an opinion he is only looking for evidences that prove his opinion.
If he find one that confirms his opinion he's still totally convinced, although he found 10 disadvantages which he just hid.

Posted by: Nighthawk Jan 12 2008, 04:18 PM

Jeez, you should all calm down a little. This thread is getting to hot.

Posted by: Smells Jan 12 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote: We've had that in school yesterday. If a human has an opinion he is only looking for evidences that prove his opinion.
If he find one he thinks that confirms his opinion he's totally convinced, although he found 10 disadvantages which he just hid.

Did you not do exactly the same as this in the opening post?


Your opinion was that GMC`s advertising was "curious" so you flung it out there "looking for evidence to prove your opinion" apart from a couple of replies the general concenus was that GMC worked perfectly well as it was.
so out of a couple of replies that agreed, YOU are convinced that your opinion was totally correct, and pushed aside all those opinions that disagreed with yours.

ie "well he agrees with me so I gotta be right"

I do not understand why you would challenge an instructor on the site here that works damn hard FOR YOU sure he gets paid for doing it, but I certainly dont begrudge (and I`m betting that 99% of people on here dont either) him a single penny of what he earns, I`m willing to bet that you are in the 1%.

As Matt said earlier, I think you miss entirely the concept of GMC, and therefore question its integrity and look for the negatives in the site.

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 04:54 PM

As I said 100000000000 times I DIDN'T WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT THE PAYMENT.
When will you get it?

This forum took me too much time. I was sitting in front of my PC, helping other people and you thanked me by bringing up old thinks again and again, reading only half of my post and being biased.

Forget about I wanted to help and go on blameing me for some [poo] I said 100 posts ago. That's what you're doing.

and for all you people that wanted to hear it (you want me to say this so I'll do and you'll be satisfied):
GMC FORUM SUCKXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Bye I've had enough

edit: Kris please take this topic away from the mainpage, it's at a damn bad place there.

Edited for language - Andrew

Posted by: Smells Jan 12 2008, 04:59 PM

Cheerio

Posted by: Fran Jan 12 2008, 05:01 PM

Hi there Constie,

I guess I have to explain what GMC is to me, besides video lessons, and really cool ones by the way, that make this site worth it and completely different from just "downloading a tab", or watching a "video lesson".

In just a couple months that I've been around, this is what I've done:

I've finally learnt some theory behind my playing, I have understood scales, "cages", minor pentatonic is my friend now and Natural minor will soon be too .

I have resolved many doubts using the Theory forum, where Andrew and many other members have always kindly explained things time after time, even though I'm sure they have answered the same newbie questions a thousand times before.

I have learnt about recording, and again everyone has been extreamly helpful giving advice about the most suitable hardware/software, and even configuration tips.

I have uploaded and got some feedback on my first recording experience.

I have done my first collaboration along with many other members and I'm looking forward to hear the final mix tomorrow.

I have discovered some more guitarrists such as SRV, J. Winter or Buckethead (Thanks Mattacuk!), and discussed about many things regarding gear, guitars, amps...

I have read countless threads where I have learnt about a ton of stuff I didn't even know about.

I plan on joining a virtual GMC band sooner or later. I plan on writing some gear review in the future.

Now, most of the things I'm talking about here are not "visual", as you said Constie.

Maybe the visual aspect is what brought many of us here. Granted.
But it is not only that what makes me stay

See you around

Posted by: Gen Jan 12 2008, 05:23 PM

Man calm down , GMC is not the place for this kind of words, no one wants to hear you say that GMC forums sucks, no one will be satisfied to hear it. I ve been following this thread since the begining and i understand your opinion on that free video message, it says videos lessons are free, its not totally true, but almost, and seriously, who cares? Everyone enjoy their membership here. You stated your opinion, and everyone did it aswell, their just defending the place they love, i think its normal. No one forces you to answer to all these posts, some people agreed on your opinion, what do you want more? You cant tell people how to think, if you are pissed off, just walk away, make another thread or, hmm pracitce guitar , i dont know...i think people especially reacted because of your second post in this thread, it sounded a bit rude to me..
Anyways, have fun playing guitar and see you around!

Posted by: Muris Jan 12 2008, 05:39 PM

Our wise old man Gen

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 12 2008, 05:48 PM

Constie - you have dissapointed me now!

We featured this thread on the main page to illustrate that we can have civilized discussions even about sensitive topics at GMC. Even though you questioned some fundamental aspects about GMC no adminstrator measure was taken against you or the thread - because you and everybody else kept the thread civilized and we managed to keep a friendly discussion.

This is no longer the case and you are the first one starting to act uncivilized - I think you let yourself down today, and I am very sorry this thread had to go in this direction.

If more people should carry on with the uncivilized manners we will close this thread - but I have big faith in the attitude of fellow gmc:ers and I don't think that will happen.

Posted by: Owen Jan 12 2008, 05:50 PM

You must realise that taking a totally aggressive stance if you want something changed isnt going to work, people were patient but you've persisted in thinking of anyone who does not agree with you as "the enemy", thats fine to begin with, people will forgive you for it a couple of times but you need to be able to step back from the situation and calm down, also, you cant just start a channel of discussion then close it down when you feel its not benefitting you anymore, thats not what forums are about.

Laters...

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 12 2008, 06:12 PM

Great post Fran - its amazing to see what you are getting from GMC even as a recent member - thanks!

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 12 2008, 06:14 PM

+1

Its really great to see it all laid out in a big list ! I have learnt so much in so many areas it may take me all day to make a list out

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 12 2008, 06:29 PM

GMC is one of the best places to be a part of. People are friendly, willing to help each other out and post some really interesting threads in the forums that show people resources they use and which equipment is worth trying out. The lessons are only a small part of the whole community here and the amount of free material is easily enough to say there is free guitar lessons here as there is. Most sites wouldn't offer this much for free and when you pay a very reasonable sum you have one of the best resources out there with some instructors with real talent that Kris has done an amazing job of finding and adding to the list of instructors.

I came here because I saw they had free lessons on here and I saw Kris's You Tube videos and really enjoyed and learnt from them. I came knowing that everything wouldn't be free but was really happy with the amount of the site that could be seen for free. I was then more than willing to pay the money as all the instructors here are incredible and Kris has done a great job in creating this brilliant guitar resource.

I really hope constie that you try to keep posts to a nice level as everybody tries to get on here and you brought up a valid discussion area but you seem to be getting angry at peoples opinions now which is a bad thing So show your opinion but also listen to what others have to say and don't just discard it and most of all enjoy GMC You've paid for it so make the most of the resources on offer and chill

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 12 2008, 06:32 PM

I think its one thing to discuss your pont of view in the hope that you will be trading that view and receiving other views on a topic. Now- from there you can either learn something and see something from somone elses point of view or you can stay unpursuaded.

Both are okay in my opinion.

But one thing worth considering is how we say things when trying to pursuade others....

I think that it'd be a shame to lose somebodys input from the forum just because they misinterpret something that has been said (and we usually perceive things from how we want to perceive them).

Posted by: Constie Jan 12 2008, 06:35 PM

One more time:
please read this completly:

I didn't want to convince everyone, that's impossible
I didn't want to change something immediate (said Kris should think about it)
I want YOU to reply to the whole post, instead of one part.

It was like that:
I say "a, b, c, d, e"

Someone just replies to "c" and did like I said "c1"
Next post is "how can you say c1? That's not true!" and I had to vindicate for c1 although I said c.

Now it can never be the same. Murris seems to dislike me which I'm very sad of, and well the others seems to do as well. But they only do because the misunderstood me as someone did like I said "c1".

Think about it

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 12 2008, 06:36 PM

perceiving people's emotions through text is impossible also so it can be difficult

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 12 2008, 06:39 PM

Thats why we have smileys !!!

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 12 2008, 06:40 PM

Posted by: Gen Jan 12 2008, 06:41 PM

The ninja is the bestest!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 12 2008, 07:00 PM

Constie - one more time - please do NOT adopt this angry and hectoring tone in the forums - we are all here to enjoy ourselves, you are making it hard to do that. Debate and discuss by all means but less anger and more humor please, or steps will be taken.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Jan 12 2008, 07:14 PM

I think, the whole meaning and direction of this thread is riddiculous and it went to riddiculous lenght. I am on Consties side - his question was badly accepted by GMCers and lot of them stepped far out of topic - he IS acting in a bad way now and he gets "angry and hectoring tone", but I am able to see the reasons.

In purely MINE opinion, this thread has not asked anyone on his progress, on things, that GMC gives for free or on things, that you get after you subscribe.
Topic is: I feel, that the title of mainpage is misleading, do you guys thing so?

I feel sorry for Constie - he is alone in this case and whole GMC - indlucing Kris, Muris and Andrew (which I look upon!! - and I believe Constie does too!!!) stepped against him. Just imagine the pressure we've put on him... Lets give this guy a break, sit to our guitars and practice some sweeps for a while...

This had gone too far from being productive. Lets start from point 0 and forget this thing.

With best regards;),

Jakub "Phoenix" Luptovec

PS: This post is not meant to be offensive, rude, suggestive, persuading nor convincing. It's my point of view and my defensive cent.

Posted by: beebo Jan 12 2008, 07:15 PM

well if it's online and it says free just like any other add then u usually know it's not really free right?
there's always a catch right?....*cough* yes *cough* anyway GMC is a great website and it's very cheap w/ great detail and some of the best teachers in the WORLD if u ask me and they're giving the best bargain ever so even if the add says free they're just trying to build a nice family .......w/ money

Posted by: Muris Jan 12 2008, 07:25 PM

Right on.
Many great ideas are in this thread about how to improve GMC,its advertisement etc.

And please guys,be sure to use smileys while posting as often as possible.

Posted by: Robin Jan 12 2008, 07:27 PM

thread is now saved.

Posted by: Gen Jan 12 2008, 07:29 PM

That's the best post ever made!!! hahaha!

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 12 2008, 07:31 PM

That picture is hilarious

Posted by: Robin Jan 12 2008, 07:31 PM

Yes, I thought people could need a laugh

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 12 2008, 07:34 PM

Well, thats your opinion not necessarly everyone elses




edit: just a hint of sarcasm there; no offence intended

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 12 2008, 07:42 PM

The point is, its not supposed to be a war, just a civilized discussion with opinions on both sides. I am here to keep the peace. No one is "against" anyone else, they just have different viewpoints. When people become too angry or vehement it is my job to calm it down, and I will continue to do so, whether I agree with people or not.

Posted by: Robin Jan 12 2008, 07:44 PM

Posted by: Owen Jan 12 2008, 07:44 PM

Posted by: Muris Jan 12 2008, 08:08 PM

And you intentions were what?
To discuss?
And so we did.
Any ideas from you,suggestions?
Without fury and madness if I may ask.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 12 2008, 08:08 PM

Ok we have reached the point where this needs a little cooling!

This thread will be locked for a while.

Posted by: JasoninOhio Jan 14 2008, 02:46 AM

If you will notice on the video lessons page, it plainly states that the GREEN LESSONS ARE FREE. Just because it doesn't say you have to subscribe to get the rest of the lessons doesn't mean it is misleading, that is the fine art of advertising...they still did exactly what they said they would do, GIVE LESSONS FOR FREE...they didn't say how many, they just said they would.

Furthermore, I challenge anyone to find a better site, with better content, better instructors, better lessons and better forum topics for the money that it costs to subscribe to GMC.

Lastly, everyone has the right to file a complaint, however, do so professionally.

Posted by: MickeM Jan 14 2008, 08:59 AM

I completely agree, very well said.