Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Smikey2006 Aug 23 2008, 05:52 AM

Hey guys i am sitting here reading the paper and reading about the current conflict between russia and georgia and the rising serverness as the USA starts to get involved. The word Nuclear has come up several times and its started to get me concerned, i don't condone violence and this war seems rather pointless to me but perhaps thats just because i don't know the details but people in the area are in my thoughts and i hope that this does not become anything more serious!

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 23 2008, 06:00 AM

of course leave it to the big countries to bully smaller ones

Posted by: JeroenKole Aug 23 2008, 09:25 AM

somehow the words Cold War Round 2 start to creep up to me. And I think nobody wants that to happen again.

Maybe I'm just a megalomaniacal hippie but if I would rule the world I'd destroy all nuclear weapons first things first.

That said. I think there is a lot more to this story then we've heard yet. And I sincerely hope that everyone that does not want to be involved doesn't have to be involved. Because it would be really sad if fellow GMC'ers would have to get involved against their will.

But then again, leave it up to humans to be able to destroy their own planet in less than 30 minutes Guess I don't have much faith left in humanity anymore.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Aug 23 2008, 09:38 AM

Don't believe everything you read in the papers. If you read around many sources you will find the truth. America would never be stupid enough to attack Russia. They'd have to lose their minds.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 23 2008, 10:35 AM

I think it's about gas or som...

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 23 2008, 11:01 AM

Politics is too complex for us to discuss it IMO, at least for me, because all of that are dirty games, and I don't have the necessary information to discuss it anyway. Often I'm quite glad that I don't know it - it would just make me sad.

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 23 2008, 11:31 AM

Well it was a matter of time before Russia decided to help their friends in Osetia and Abchazja, after Kosovo gained or rather was granted independence. For Russia attacking Georgia was useful in many ways:
1. Russian people are happy that their country is so powerful and great, they need this, especially when it is not so true in real...
2. Gas/gasoline can be transported to Europe through Georgia without involvement of Russia, and fuel is one of the few things that gives Russia a important position in todays politics.

All in all, every country has citizens that dream about their country being the most powerful. There are British that would like to see 1/4 of the world again in their rule, French that has "Napoleon Ambitions" etc.etc.etc. Unfortunately Russia has a bigger percentage of such citizens, and also have some means with they can try to change their current situation. In truth Russia has nothing ( besides nuclear weapons that would mean the end of everything ) that can hurt USA/EU and make them stronger. She would hurt other, but also herself, maybe even harder...

Posted by: kevin-riff-after-riff Aug 23 2008, 11:34 AM

i read this like a couple of days ago...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080812160650AAs3gCd

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 23 2008, 12:03 PM

I think I agree with Jeroen on this. I think there are lots of things, reasons for Russia and Gorgia, we don't, and will no, know.

Posted by: Nemanja Filipovic Aug 23 2008, 03:26 PM

I think that there are always things we would never know.
I agree with organisedconfusion,America vs Russia in that war contest is not possible,they bout are to strong countries.

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Aug 23 2008, 03:52 PM

Almost all wars are about the same: MONEY !! sorry but it's too sad, politicians are not humans.

Posted by: Nemanja Filipovic Aug 23 2008, 03:56 PM

They are humans but,with hounger for power and money and more power.

Posted by: Jesse Aug 23 2008, 04:03 PM

... a bad war i guess would be biological war.. spreading deadly virusses toughout the world.. we ARE DOOMED!!!

Posted by: Disturbed21 Aug 23 2008, 04:32 PM

They have hunger for power but also fear that they will lose it. Thats when the authoritarian governments start popping up.
Now about the Russia-Georgia conflict. I think it's just the first step in a long list of steps russia's going to take. So far it's...

1. Invade georgia using south osettia as a reason.
2. Threaten Poland (need confirmation on this one.)
3. ?

What's next or did i miss something after those 2?

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 23 2008, 04:47 PM

haha true except for sum

Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 23 2008, 06:33 PM

To me it looks like Vladimir Putin (Spelling?) Is kind of flexing his muscles, Letting us know "Russia is back" or whatever. Im willing to bet there are more factors that have an affect on this than most of us know. I know the American media, at least where I am, Does a piss poor job of reporting on it, Just repeating the same thing for weeks on end.

I hope it resolves itself out soon, The last thing humanity needs is another war.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Aug 23 2008, 07:21 PM

unfortunately i disagree with both of these statements, i am very interested in politics and hope to get more interested as time goes on and as i settle into a career. I believe that not all politicians are corrupt i just believe they have a bad reputation as of now. I will compare them to Communists. although when most people hear the word communism they instantly get upset and say things like D*** Commies and stuff like that. I am willing to openly admit that i am a Marxist, i believe in everything Karl Marx wrote and i am a card carrying member of the communist party of canada, this does not mean that i approve of the killings of thousands of people to control power, this does not mean that i hate democracy or that i am essentially a bad person(i hope not). I mearly beleive that all people must be treated as equals, unions and the average workers should be raised up and more attention should be put on the general lives of the population and on becoming self sufficient rather than spending our time and efforts on Capitalism. This being said if i was to go into politics i would hope i would not be corrupt and that i would fight for the causes i believe in and fight for the good of all peoples. I also have a belief that there are many politicians who uphold the same ideals as me. I think i agree with the uncreator, from reading more it seems like this war is about Russia simply saying we are not going to backdown just because the united states says we should, and i agree with this, the world needs to stop bowing down to the USA and start making its own choices!

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 23 2008, 07:51 PM

Ya the American Media is so Republican based and hate to give both sides of the story. Its a shame.

Posted by: fkalich Aug 23 2008, 07:57 PM

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93522075


Looks like Europe and America are on the way back to being best buddies again. I always felt that they loved us a lot more when they feared the USSR. We only invade dictatorships, not democracies. And we never threaten democracies with nuclear attack as they did Poland. Makes for better friends. Even France will love us again I bet, the way this is going.

Posted by: USAMAN Aug 23 2008, 07:57 PM

"i believe in everything Karl Marx wrote "

You should really read more....This was not a good man with good Ideas.

The Communists are followers of Karl Marx. They believe that the economic environment generates ideas and character. Their ultimate objective is to create the perfect character through the perfecting environment.

When the revolution is successful, the majority of the bourgeois class remains. In the words of Karl Marx, they must be "swept out of the way and made impossible." If this is not done, they will form the environment in which a substantial segment of the population is nurtured and will thus destroy the prospect of a perfect society.

The liquidation of the bourgeoisie is an essential step of the path to Communism. This is why Communism must kill.

Marxism has led to the death of MILLIONS.
"Ieng Sary" (marxist).."As long as we have one million left, that will be enough to make the new man."
"In the Communist Program for human regeneration, killing is as necessary as the fire of the furnace is for the creation of steel "

"This program of slaughter is rational if the basic premises of Marxism are accepted. If there is no God who teaches, "Thou shalt not kill," and if people are merely animals, why should they not be treated as animals? Husbandmen who breed finer animals and destroy the inferior ones in the process are respected and honored throughout the world. The Communists believe that they are the husbandmen who have been selected by history to enact the programs that will result in the creation of perfect human animals. To hesitate to eliminate the diseased would be to betray their mission".

The Marxist doctrines of ATHEISM, MATERIALISM, ECONOMIC DETERMINISM, CLASS, CLASS LIQUIDATION, CLASS DICTATORSHIP and INEVITABLE PROGRESS are false and deadly

Posted by: fkalich Aug 23 2008, 08:09 PM

Smirk fell below the threshold of being worthy of a reply. Karl should have spent less time writing, and more effort keeping his family fed and the heat on in the winter. Besides, he never said anything original, that Hegel did not say earlier, and say much better.

Posted by: Lian Gerbino Aug 23 2008, 08:18 PM

have anyone seen the movie: Zeitgeist???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

in part 2 and part 3 there´s a lot of info about wars.
in that movie, I found some reasons about why countries has wars.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Aug 23 2008, 09:04 PM

Yeah well, that movie is complete bull.

(feel free to edit for language, whatever)

Duly edited for language as requested. The fact that you knew it was wrong and posted it anyway has not gone unnoticed - Andrew

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Aug 23 2008, 11:15 PM

It isn't possible to invade a dictatorship like it is to invade a country, what I mean with that is that if you think the USA is going to solve this like they tried to solve the situation in Iraq, there will be lots of civilians killed just because USA wants to be "loved" and be the big hero like they were after WW2. But I promise you that it won't happen again if you keep on like this. I hate how USA abuses other countries' NATO-memberships to have them help to do the "Fight Against Terror". NATO should have fallen with the USSR.

Posted by: fkalich Aug 23 2008, 11:31 PM

I would respond, but I will have a conversation with my bedroom wall instead. Or maybe one of my cats.

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Aug 23 2008, 11:45 PM

I guess that means that you don't have any good arguments to come with? And that that again means that I won the conversation? And that that again means that you think I am right? Well, I'm happy that you agree with me

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 24 2008, 12:00 AM

I agree with u buddy, but in all fairness, Sadam Hussien was know to be a bad person. I think U.S. could have done a way better job in the situation, but I do support the troops 100%, just not George Bush or John McCaine haha

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Aug 24 2008, 12:08 AM

Well, it isn't the troops that decide what they have to do in the war so I understand what you mean

Posted by: fkalich Aug 24 2008, 12:09 AM

When both the US and France agree on something, it is probably the correct perception. That is the acid test.

Posted by: kevin-riff-after-riff Aug 24 2008, 12:12 AM

i think what would be best is if we found out that there is going to be an alien invasion, then the whole of earth will have to stick together and stop having STUPID WARS!! what the!...
but besides from that, i really hope that nothing serious breaks out coz we might like all die, and that is, well, not ideal...if you get what i mean

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Aug 24 2008, 12:19 AM

I think it's a little harder to find solutions for the world's problems than that...




I agree about not having more of those stupid wars, but I wonder if you have seen Independence Day a little too many times

Posted by: Noangels Aug 24 2008, 12:39 AM

we are all screwed by our political leaders realy,the choice of electing them into power is just an illusion to fool us into
thinking we have a say in how our countries are run.There all the same,and the end game will always play the same no matter who we have there.The super rich hold the purse strings and shape the world.we are all just cattle to be taxed from our 1st wage packet untill our death

as for this Georgian conflict,the 1st reports on the BBC was about them shelling that city in South Ossetia killing many innocents.Then russian came through and rightly punished any Georgian war machine hardware that was in the area.Then driving them out,far away from Georgian missile and shell range incase they deicided to shell that area again
Hopefully Russia will resist using the full force of its war machine there,and withdraw back into South Ossetia and stay there as(cough)peace keepers!

Anyway,as a Brit here I would like to say to my other EU guitarists here that most of us here were against the Iraq war,dont want a war with Iran and certainly not Russia.Its the same over the pond in America.GWB the great draft dodger has done great shame on his country and the average American is the same as everyone else on the planet.America has a lot to offer the world,not just bullets and bombs:) Its just a shame our so called leaders are vile petty men who value money more than life itself!

Posted by: fkalich Aug 24 2008, 02:58 AM

Often the average citizen is pretty clueless, and the leaders have to bring them along slowly.

For example in 1940 Roosevelt campaigned on the promise of staying out of the war, and he darn well knew that he needed to get into that as soon as possible. But the public did not understand the danger. Or go back to the American Civil war. If up to the public in the first half of 1864, three years into the war, they would have just gotten out of the war and left the slaves in chains. It took Sherman's capture of Atlanta to turn that tide. Sometimes the leaders really do know better than the general public. Not always, but some times they do.

And it is not until years after that history really judges it. The judgment made now by mass entertainment new media is not necessarily the one that history will have. I don't think GW will be looked on nearly as negatively as he is today. In fact, I think he will be looked on moderately favorably, and he knows it. I mean, he will have been responsible for establishing the first democracy in the Arab world, and nothing particularly bad of note will be remembered. No real scandals. No real disasters that could have been avoided. So why will they judge him so harshly, you think they will base it on old BBC newspapers? But time will tell if I am right on this.

Don't get me wrong, I probably will vote for Obama. But I never fell for this total trashing of GW.

Posted by: kahall Aug 24 2008, 03:22 AM

I hear ya!

Mods, are we allowed to have a heated political discussion here or not? Previously you shut them down. Why not this one?



We have at least one poster here insulting the current President of the USA, a great one at that by the way and yet the thread remains open.



I have plenty of responses but I do not want to waste my time if you are going to shut this down. I enjoy all you guys gals here but there are some asinine and just plain wrong statements being typed in this thread.

I suggest you open a politics /current events only section in the forum with a stern warning to all who enter that they may be offended or continue to shut these threads down. I would go for the latter if it were up to me, since there are plenty of other places on the net to get info and comment on what is up in the world of politics, war and other current events.

Posted by: Daniel Robinson Aug 24 2008, 04:11 AM

I very much agree with this, looking back history wise if you look at the facts verses what is taught or thought of you take someone like Abraham Lincoln, during his presidency his approval rating was abysmal just like GW. Just because people "Don't get it" doesnt mean its wrong.

I agree the tactics that got us invovled in Iraq were questionable, i think the biggest problem though falls on the U.N. it has no strength to dictate anything, they are all paper pushers who threaten but never do anything. The intitial problem with Saddam was the fact he wouldnt give weapon inspectors free movement to do what they needed. The U.N. kept threating military action over and over and over. Eventually Saddam realized it was all bark and no bite. When you make policy on a global scale you should back it up with something concrete. The U.N. failed miserably in this, so we took the action they weren't willing to.

As i said not exactly honorable, but not incorrect either.

Daniel

Posted by: fkalich Aug 24 2008, 05:58 AM

same thing is going to happen now, more is coming, success here will just raise his popularity, NATO will be divided on standing up to him with serious sanctions, and so he will win, and what the heck, worked once, he will do it again. People never learn. The US will have to go along and let him get away with it, and have to wait with the "I told you so's" when he does it to the Ukraine or Poland or Turkey or whoever.

Besides the real fear is that he is pretty much a dictator now, and I think has some significant screws loose.

I mean, whatever GW is, he is definitely in great shape physically, runs and lifts weights. In better shape than Putin I believe. But he keeps it to himself. He never subjected us to something like this.....



That guy has got to be a few chords sort of a full load, to pose like that in his position, and at his age. Besides, he needs a man bra.

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 24 2008, 06:03 AM

doesnt look like hes out of shape 4 his age, Russians do it old school haha

Posted by: fkalich Aug 24 2008, 06:14 AM

I think you should entertain the possibility the guy is half nuts, and not excuse this as some Russian thing. He also has access codes to many nukes. Well maybe somebody will poison him, like they did with Brezhnev.

I still say he needs a man bra.

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 24 2008, 06:17 AM

he has bigger breasts than my gf haha oh boy but seriously wut r the point of nukes, only gonna destroy the earth.

Posted by: Iron King Aug 24 2008, 08:28 AM

I'm sorry but not only is GW one of the worst presidents of the US, but is one of the worst humans in our lifetime.

He has the blood of thousands of people on his hands, he made the world despise the US, he lies, he cheats the system, he used the constitution as toilet paper. The only way people will think of him more favorably is if McCain gets elected and invades Iran.

-Elected in a disputed election
-Patriot act shreds the constitution
-Iraq, brought the country to war on forged intelligence and flat out lies (should of impeached him right here)
-No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater mercenaries that are above the law
-The Military Commissions Act
-Hurricane Katrina
-Warrant less wire tapping by NSA
-Offers retroactive immunity to telecoms that spy on their customers
-Turned a surplus into a MASSIVE deficit
- Attempted to stop the 9/11 commission
-The whole preventive war doctrine (invade a country before it has a chance to do something wrong)
-His whole war on science and logic (evolution, stem cells, global warming)
-Staffing Women's Health position with religious conservatives, attacks abortion and types of birth control
-The massacre at Haditha and its conver up
-Collapse of the housing market
-Karl Rove, nuff said
-"Lost" white house emails
- Telling Fox News what to report

I could keep going, but I won't
I'm ashamed to call this man human, let alone the leader of the world's most powerful country

anyway, as for the Georgia thing
Almost everybody blames Russia as being a thug and going back to the Soviet style of control but we have to remember that Georgia isn't just some innocent bystander in all of this. The Georgian has been brutal to South Ossetia (spelling) and was the one that started bombing. Many refugees publicly thank the Russia army for saving them from the Georgians.

That side of the story is almost not told in the US. The blame goes straight to Russia because the West has been supporting Georgia.

War is bad
call me naive, but I'm confident that one day people will have enough of killing. We will stop electing power hungry politicians, abandon silly ideals like nationalism and patriotism and just work on living together as human beings

Posted by: Vinod Saranga Aug 24 2008, 08:36 AM

Same story here

Posted by: mattacuk Aug 24 2008, 10:12 AM

I just like to think about Guitars and fishing myself

Posted by: Rooks Aug 24 2008, 10:25 AM

I think that the rest of the world should just mind its own business when there is a conflict, it might seem wrong to just stand and watch. But it only creates more conflicts to interfere.

Everyone should just move with red cross and help innocent people.

And if USA really didn't like Saddam Hussein back then .. They could shoot him with a missile from 100 miles away. There was no reason to get young men killed besides money money money. (And yet consider the costs of the war, don't think it exactly paid off) If USA really don't like a country or a coalition they should spend the money building a wall around them letting them sort it out ^^.

In a near future, Tanks, planes and helicopters will be completely unmanned. And then we can see the stupidity of war. two men sending robots to destroy each other. Jeez numbskulls.

And for the war in georgia. What can everyone else do? Only make things worse. Only thing we can do is help innocent victims of war with food and shelter. It might seem a bit "hippie like" but my only answer to stop war. Is to stop shooting.

Posted by: MickeM Aug 24 2008, 10:41 AM

Whether it's shut down or not is entirely up to you. Keep it clean and respect eachother! When things start to go overboard it will be closed for sure. Or if it becomes offending to a lot of people of if we find that it's leading nowhere it's entirely up to us moderators to close it.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 24 2008, 11:05 AM

This kind of topic certainly ain't great for chilling out.

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Aug 24 2008, 12:52 PM

Haha Many people find it interesting though

Posted by: Noangels Aug 24 2008, 02:28 PM

Thank you Iron King for typing that,saves me having to do it:)
I say the whole world chips in and Buys The Decider some pretzels,Hopefully he will eat them in prison

On a side note are there any big russian bands?Cant say I have heard of any to be honest

Posted by: besip Aug 24 2008, 02:32 PM

The war is always complicate.....i'm just don't like to say the all resposibility for the war is on Russian side..
we got so many war's on our planet and nobody care who is right...now almost everybody see guilt on russian side but i'm thing thats more complicate

i'm not on any side into this conflict!!!!!!!!
but some country{and specialy politics} be have to thing before they start judging

Posted by: Lian Gerbino Aug 24 2008, 03:08 PM

I agree with that, I have the same feeling about it. but, how many peace people has to die till then? Lennon, Ghandi, Kennedy, M.L.King just to name a few.

Posted by: Nemanja Filipovic Aug 24 2008, 03:21 PM

Wow,topic goes big.
Lian has mentioned Zietgeist,I totally agree with every thing in this movie and with every thing mister George Carlin sad at the beginning in the same one.
I think that there is a lot of touchy issues here,but I do also think that Russia is saying,ok America you bully the whole world but not us.It is there wright to say any thing they want,just like America say and do every thing they want.Question is,who give you the wright to deside other peoples faith and to invade every country you want(based on bad inteligence).
Point is we cant change a thing a bout it.:)IMO

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 24 2008, 08:51 PM

i agree, y would u want to, just let people be free

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 24 2008, 08:52 PM

thanx 4 the list man, GwB is the worst American president ever

Posted by: kahall Aug 25 2008, 01:51 AM

Yeah, thanks. It makes it so easy for me.
Lets get started.

The only way people will think of him more favorably is if McCain gets elected and invades Iran.
Anyone who has paid attention to what Iranian President Ahmadinejad is saying knows this has to be considered. He's calling for the destruction of America and all democracy. That seems kind of important to me.



-Elected in a disputed election:
Al Gore tried his damnedest to steal the election in 2000 and failed, and some still claim that Bush not only tried to, but did. Gore failed because the Supreme Court finally stepped in to put a halt to Al Gore's shenanigans, and some lament a supposed "activism" on the part of the Supreme Court that they've spent the last thirty years applauding. The SC is only correct when it agrees with your side is not how it works here.

-Patriot act shreds the constitution:
It does no such thing and you can repeat it from now until John McCain is in office and it is still not going to be true. If we had the patriot act in place before 9/11 we may have just anticipated it. No one is interested in investigating someone who's doing something that's appropriate. They don't have time for that and is just plain nonsense. We know for sure there are cells in the United States that are ready to erupt. We know that Hezbollah is here; we know there are cells from different terrorist organizations that are here and operational and that there are others waiting too. This is serious business. Just because we don't have a continuous attack on our shores, does not mean we are now living in lolly pop candy land.

-Iraq, brought the country to war on forged intelligence and flat out lies (should of impeached him right here):
Everyone including those in Congress who voted to go to war had the same intelligence. If you are going to fire (impeach) GW then the rest must go to, but I'm sure you're fine with that since you did not vote for any of them and they do not represent you. Besides all that, the Iraqis had only been shooting at our pilots (who were there at the request of the UN, a useless organization) for ten f'n years before the US finally brought it to a halt and literally dug him out of his hole. And there is the minor detail of 50 million oppressed Muslims who are now free.


-No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater mercenaries that are above the law.
No proof of any of this. If there was someone would already be impeached, in jail or at least fined heavily and you know it. Next->


-The Military Commissions Act.
It provides legal protections that ensure our military and intelligence personnel will not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists simply for doing their jobs. I say AWESOMe and you would to if you were in the military, had family in the military or if you weren't clueless.


-Hurricane Katrina: Yeah it is weird that there has never been a hurricane in Crawford Texas. Good grief, he caused the hurricane? Really? If you believe that, I have pics for sale of the boat used by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby when they blew up the levees in New Orleans. If you are referring to how fast we reacted you are misinformed. Our troops and volunteers were there within 24 hours, but no one expected a disaster this massive would occur. If they did then the LA government officials would have done a mandatory evacuation instead of just suggesting it. I was a mess, but how you can blame one man, GW is just silly. People do still have to look out for themselves and not rely on the government to get themselves out of every single situation. We rescued thousands and mistakenly passed out money like it was bubblegum but other than that we all did the best we could.


-Warrant less wire tapping by NSA:
The War on Terror is real. See my answer to your ridiculous patriot act shreds the constitution hot air.


-Offers retroactive immunity to telecoms that spy on their customers.
The War on Terror is real. And this was not decided by GW, but in a court of law. We have those here.


-Turned a surplus into a MASSIVE deficit:
It cost a lot of money to kill those who try to kill us. And it is not massive. We can pay that off in a heart beat without raising taxes and no one here really cares about this issue. It is only brought up to add to baseless BS lists like yours of all the evil GWB has done.


- Attempted to stop the 9/11 commission:
I have no idea if this is true or not, but there was no need for a commission. 19 radical Islamic MF'n terrorist flew 3 planes into buildings and another was forced into the ground by passengers in the U. S. killing thousands of innocent people from all over the world. (Remember that?) It's pretty obvious the commission was a waste of time and money. Or are you one of those idiot douchbags that think it was an inside job?


-The whole preventive war doctrine (invade a country before it has a chance to do something wrong)
Yep, that's the way we roll in the USA. Thank God for the US military and our leaders. Over half of the world's people would be under some dictator's thumb if it weren't for our policies.


-His whole war on science and logic (evolution, stem cells, global warming) war on science?
The schools here still teach evolution as fact and they will as long as I and others like me have anything to say about it. Global warming is a hoax and many are getting filthy rich claiming that it is real. Stem cell research is being done like crazy by private enterprise here (again in the US) and having success. There is no war on science here. Where in the hell did you get that?


-Staffing Women's Health position with religious conservatives, attacks abortion and types of birth control: That is his right to do with any appointed position just as it was Bill Clinton's, George Bush Sr, Ronald Reagan and all of the other 40 ish presidents before him. Geez, do you even know how the Presidency works here? Oh and search for abortions in any US yellow pages and you will see that there are plenty of places to get one if you need it, pages and pages, which is fine with most of us here in the US. Just don't make us help pay for it. We weren't invited when you got in the mess and we do want to be invited now.


-The massacre at Haditha and its conver up:
Everyone one of the individuals involved has been acquitted by jury. And if you want to talk about impeachment of anyone it should be of those who spoke as if our soldiers murdered innocents before there was even one shred of evidence, as in Barrack's VP choice Joe Biden as well as Senator Murtha. War is not pretty but these 2 men are the disgrace not George Bush or our brave men and woman fighting for my freedoms.


-Collapse of the housing market:
This is capitalism at its best, besides I always like it when the price of things go down. The only time anyone ever complains about falling prices is when it is the value of their home. It's a great time to buy, not so great to sell but it will come back around like it always does. FYI, I own my home and this does affect me.


-Karl Rove, nuff said:
He is a magnificent bastard. If I was running for any elected office I would make sure he was on my side. I love him. You and your like can continue to complain about him and that is just fine, he is now out active politics and has nothing to do with any policy making procedures. He's on Fox News, the number one cable news network almost everyday. I suggest you tune in if you miss him.


-"Lost" white house emails.
They said they lost them during an upgrade if my memory is correct. Lord knows that could never happen. Big deal! IT is my profession and while this should not have happened, the fact that they say it did does not make it a lie.


- Telling Fox News what to report:
How old are you anyway? You and others say this only because they are fair and balanced. Even Hillary Clinton said so.



As an added bonus: In the meantime there have been no - repeat, no, zip, zero, nada - successful attacks on US soil since 9/11, and we both know that it is not because of the fine job Clinton did in scaring them off. We free 50 million — (that's 50 with six zeros behind it) oppressed Muslims and the only thing some people notice is a handful of prisoners with panties on their heads and a load of illegal combatants in Gitmo getting fat and sloppy from their 'inhuman' bondage. And like it or not there are millions and millions and millions of people who think and agree with me just as much as those who are as clueless as you are. George Bush has been the greatest president since Ronald Reagan. Get over it already and in case you missed it, he can't run again.



And one more thing, no one I know, and I know a lot of people of a lot of different political persuasion give a rat's ass what people in other countries think of the US, our citizens or our elected officials. This is another non issue made up by the likes of MSNBC and other networks that are in the TANK for BO.



Yes I love my country and I am very patriotic in case you did not gather that from my post. You all should be as well.

Posted by: USAMAN Aug 25 2008, 03:57 AM

Thats not why the US invaded. Read through the long list of UN resolutions that Sadam Ignored. The UN again did nothing....US had to because no one else ever steps up.


[size="6"][/size]AMEN BROTHER!

Hurricane Katrina: Yeah it is weird that there has never been a hurricane in Crawford Texas. Good grief, he caused the hurricane? Really? If you believe that, I have pics for sale of the boat used by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby when they blew up the levees in New Orleans. If you are referring to how fast we reacted you are misinformed. Our troops and volunteers were there within 24 hours, but no one expected a disaster this massive would occur. If they did then the LA government officials would have done a mandatory evacuation instead of just suggesting it. I was a mess, but how you can blame one man, GW is just silly. People do still have to look out for themselves and not rely on the government to get themselves out of every single situation. We rescued thousands and mistakenly passed out money like it was bubblegum but other than that we all did the best we could.

It wasn't GWB that caused Katrina, Dick Cheney found the keys to George's EVIL weather machine. Excuse me whilst I locate my foil hat....lol

Good grief.

Posted by: sigma7 Aug 25 2008, 04:20 AM

r u guys serious? GwB ruined America and destroyed the American Economy. There is no middle class. The higher taxes he created resulted my family to be evicted from our house. And furthermore, she just got fired because she was in debt and now we dont have healthcare. My mom is getting her car repossed and George W. Bush f***ed our economy and over a war which originally started with Osama Bin Laden, and wut a good job he did to capture him because we did not enter Pakistan, his country of origin. George Bush is my enemy and for those who do like him, think about wut he has done to u.


o yah, they have my family has Russian accents and believe it or not, they get pulled to the side automatically at the airport, random my ass


cares for the rich and gives the leftovers to the poor

Posted by: Iron King Aug 25 2008, 05:34 AM

Kahall
how do suppose invading countries and killing fathers and sons is going to help your War on Terror?
How does Iraq relate in anyway to the War on Terror?
The logical first step for the war would be Saudi Arabia right? Almost all the hijackers came from there... oh but wait, GW is friends with them, never mind

The War on Terror is not real
The whole notion of "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't care about the government spying on you" is pathetic. Terrorism does not negate the constitution, in fact the constitution exist to protect individuals in times like these. I'd rather live and die holding my own ideals of true freedom and peace than blindly bend over to the government and its military industrial complex

as for Fox News... fair and balanced? if you think that then your thoughts on GWB make perfect sense.
It reports lies, it cuts off people that don't agree with their ideals and is used as a propaganda tool for the Republican and Religious right. Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan admits that the White House distributes notes on what Fox News should cover.

so what was that? Fair and Balanced?
right...

just to end this pointless topic, so I can go back to playing guitar

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" Benjamin Franklin

...I suppose you know more about the constitution and freedom than one of the founding fathers right?

Posted by: fkalich Aug 25 2008, 05:47 AM

My prescription:

1) Kill you tv, totally. And no internet crap. If you use internet, just GMC, and mindless stuff. Nothing that tries to be serious. NO NATIONAL or INTERNATIONAL news broadcasts. Stay away from that like poison, all are poison, BBC, NBC, FOX, NPR, PBS, without exception, just different flavors of poison.

2) Read this book, it is old, but still I think the message is unsurpassed. Just substitute the word internet for tv in places, and it is current.

http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219639051&sr=8-1

3) Then read this book, you need to read a really good history book. I can tell. You need to get a dose of real reality. You are just getting brain dope from the media. I don't care what you watch or listen to. It is all brain dope, whatever the source. And I am not talking about just the news. The message is embedded in most of the entertainment, it all will twist your gray cells into convoluted shapes. Society has lost its collective mind, but because it has occurred year by year, in steps, people don't realize that it has happened. But you do detox if you get off it. So read a really good history book, to get a refresher on what the world of man really is, or has been recently.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Arms-Global-History-War/dp/0521618266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219639815&sr=1-1

When people are real ideological you have expressed yourself to be, well you are off base. You may have a lot of people around you that are the same, but that is always out of balance. Things are not like that. We have an elected President. It really is not possible for them to be that bad, they would be impeached out of office if that were the case. You just vote for the best one in you mind, and maybe one is somewhat better than the other, but it is not like one is totally satan and the other wears a white hat. If you look on the world like that, you really need to get out of watching the media, and detox, as I advise.

Posted by: MickeM Aug 25 2008, 09:02 AM

Now we're heading towards US republicans vs. rest of the world which is bad for the survival of this thread.

I'm locking it for the time being for the US discussion to calm and it might be reopened for further on topic discussions latetr on. Perhaps!

I think fkalich summed it up very well for us.