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Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 3 2009, 01:59 PM

Hi JVM,

Welcome to your December MTP Thread. I read your Guitar CV and found some very interesting things in there Since you asked me to push you more on theory (modal application) arpeggio shapes and chords, I have decided to focus on theory in your first assignment. Believe me when I say I have already created a full plan for you this month so if you follow the work I feel you will already have much better understanding in areas mentioned above!
Lets get started now

Your 1st assignment for December is due week from today (10th of December)

Here is your assignment

Theory reading :

- I would like you to read my posts from links provided below.
- Once you read it all, memorize 3 and 4 part harmony in C major scale.
- Learn to apply scale degrees rather then numbers ( I in C major is C, IV in C is F etc).
- Write out in this thread all notes for 3 and 4 part harmony in C major.
- Explain to me how do we build chords in the first place?
- Write me what determines some chord progression to be in certain mode? How do we make a chord progression for D Dorian for example?

Here are the links:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=30271

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=30193



Let me know if you have any questions and if I could help in any way!

Pedja

Posted by: JVM Dec 3 2009, 04:10 PM

Awesome. I am going to take my time with this. I can do the three part and four part harmony easy enough, but I am going to take the weekend to digest the cadences. I'll let you know if I have any questions.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 4 2009, 12:49 PM

If there is anything I could help you with, let me know JVM!

Posted by: JVM Dec 4 2009, 06:38 PM

Here's a couple:

"The beauty of Sub dominant chords is to sound "little bit out" compared to Tonic type chords. They are very much needed to keep cadences happening because otherwise we end up with Tonic and Dominant chords !"

Can you clarify this a bit?

Also, can you clarify the function of the 4 note a bit more? It is used in sub dominant and dominant functioning chords, is it kind of neutral or what? What allows it to swing to either sub dominant or dominant 'assisting' function?

Thats all for now, thanks

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 5 2009, 01:20 AM

Sure thing JVM.
If we just have Tonic and Dominant chords we get only perfect 4th or perfect 5th movement happening in harmony. G7 to C for example, that is up a perfect 4th or down a perfect 5th. That can be very restricting and predicting. With Subdominant functioning chords we extend and enrich harmony as well as chord cadence. I hope that makes sense?
Regarding 4th note in the scale, you are right it is used in both Subdominant and Dominant functioning chords. A thing to remember about dominant type chords is that they must contain most unstable note in the scale which is 7th scale degree (B in key of C major). Thats one of the biggest differences between Subdominant and Dominant type chords. Dominant types use 4 and 7 , Subdominant would use 2 4 and 6 of a sort.
Let me know if you have any more questions!

Posted by: JVM Dec 5 2009, 01:23 AM

Perfect explanation, thanks

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 5 2009, 01:25 AM

Sure thing man. You caught me right before bed time, I am glad I checked this thread

Posted by: JVM Dec 8 2009, 06:45 PM

Three part harmony in C major:

I - Cmaj chord, C E G = a perfect tonic chord.
II - Dmin chord, D F A = sub-dominant chord because of the VI and IV notes (A and F)
III - Emin chord, E G B = a tonic chord, but the tonic note ( C ) is replaced by the leading note ( B ) which weakens it's tonic appeal a bit.
IV - Fmaj chord, F A C = a great sub-dominant option with the VI and IV but also the I.
V - Gmaj chord, G B D = a dominant chord due to the VII and II.
VI - Amin chord, A C E = a strong tonic chord because of the I and III present.
VII - Bdim chord, B D F = a perfect dominant chord with II, IV and VII all in place.

Four Part Harmony:

I - Cmaj7 chord, C E G B
II - Dmin7 chord, D F A C
III - Emin7 chord, E G B D
IV - Fmaj7 chord, F A C E
V - G7 chord, G B D F
VI - Amin7 chord, A C E G
VII - Bmin7b5 chord, B D F A

We build chords by stacking thirds onto the notes of a scale. Triads have three stacked thirds (1 3 5) and seventh chords have four (1 3 5 7). I don't know about altered chords much, but I assume that you basically "alter" these triads and seventh chords by raising/lowering strategic notes in the chord.

To determine what chord progressions are in what mode, you need to know the characteristic note of the mode. First it is helpful to separate the modes into Major and Minor families, and distinguish minor modes from the minor scale and major modes from the major scale (am I right in that assumption?) Since D Dorian's characteristic note is the VI, which is sharp compared to D minor, our Dorian cadence should have chords that contain that VI note ( B ). You can build three chords out of this note, with B in the root position (Bdim or Bmin7b5), B in the third position (Gmaj, G7) and B in the 5th position, which is Em or Em7. Since Bdim is so similar to Dmin, we don't use it as it can confuse us (right?). In addition to using these characteristic modal chords, we should obviously include the tonic (Dmin or variation of it) in the progression.

If I got all that right, how do we go about practicing this effectively to get it to be instinctual? And if I got it wrong, point me in the right direction

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 10 2009, 01:38 AM

Fantastic work JVM!

I will correct you on couple of things but you pretty much nailed it man really great work. Lets look at this first : "We build chords by stacking thirds onto the notes of a scale. Triads have three stacked thirds (1 3 5) and seventh chords have four (1 3 5 7). I don't know about altered chords much, but I assume that you basically "alter" these triads and seventh chords by raising/lowering strategic notes in the chord."
We build chords by stacking diatonic 3rds or by using diatonic 3rds. This is the reason why that type of harmony is called Tertian harmony just like we have Quartal harmony (when we use 4ths!). Your observation is somewhat correct. We stack 2 not 3 thirds for triad ( 1 to 3 is one third and 3 to 5 is another so total of two thirds) and for 4 part chords we stack 3 thirds. When we talk about altered chords we pretty much refer to dominant type chords that have altered (changed) tensions. So lets say we have G7 chord that comes from C major scale originally (5th scale degree dominant 7th chord in major scale always). Now, natural tensions on G7 chord are 9 which is A note, 11 which is avoid note because it clashes with major 3rd B and the 11th is C which produces minor 9th interval which sounds very unpleasant, and finally 13 which is E note. So G791113 would be following notes G B D F A C E ! C being the avoid note for reasons I explained earlier. So we are left with G7913. Now we can just write G7 and then in parenthesis put chord tension something like this G7 (9) or G7 (13) or on the other hand we could just write G9 which would imply that we have G7 originally and that 9 is used same goes for G13 (G7 is there 13 is added to it). Altered tensions are everything but natural tensions! This means that our G7 can now have b9 which is Ab or #9 which is A# or #11 (C#) or b5 (Db) or b13 (Eb) or augmented 5th or #5 (D#). So thanks to altered dominant area we now get the freedom to do a lot of cool things and harmonize, reharmonize melodies with those great tensions. As rhythm accompanist we can now influence the mood of the song with the tension choices and variations we use. I will stop here with this as it will lead into hours of typing but we will get to that when time is right, lets move onto your final question now!

If I got all that right, how do we go about practicing this effectively to get it to be instinctual? And if I got it wrong, point me in the right direction
You are on the right way! First you have to know this, review it over and over in your hand. You must know this by memory all these rules, it needs to be automatic, just like you know music alphabet has A B C D E F G or chromatic scale has 12 different notes and 13th that repeats the same as 1st, you must know structure of scales/modes, harmony in any given scale/mode, understand strong and weak chords, cadences and learn how this applies in real music. Final step is to apply this in your own writing and this is exactly what we will do!
Since you covered Dorian now, I will give you assignment to be creative with this information now. So you will need to based on everything you learn, create a backing track in Dorian mode (we can choose a root) and tempo of your choice. Once you get the backing down and you did your work with it, your next assignment will be to solo and record your work over it (by being free with it and by using restrictions in soloing). Again, this is something that awaits you in your following 2 assignments, I hope you are excited as I am about it - can't wait to see how you will do practically on all this!

Finally, your next assignment will be in this thread soon. If I don't manage to post it tomorrow please don't mind me, I will do it on Friday 100% ! I will be playing over and over these new classical pieces I have been working for tonight's performance so you will understand if I am not able to do it tomorrow.

Posted by: JVM Dec 10 2009, 03:16 AM

Great! I just as excited as you I think I will keep reading and reviewing this info until I can tell it to you in my sleep. I have recorded a series of cadences in each mode for C and have done a little bit of playing over them. I can't decide which ones I like the most And understood about your classical pieces - I'm going through finals at school right now so we're in the same situation.

Posted by: JVM Dec 11 2009, 06:24 PM

Pedja,

I was looking at http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=32485 and specifically post # 15 by Mr. T, where he asks if we have a Am, Dm, C chord progression going, and we play Cmajor/Aminor scale on top of it, what will it sound like? I tried to explain it to myself, but I came out a little confused. It's kind of backwards to the way I just learned. Am I right in thinking that Am is tonic, Dm is sub-dominant and C is (weak) tonic in this case? The progression lends a very minor sound to my lead playing when I play Cmajor/Aminor on it. So is this an aeolian cadence?

Anyways, I know you're busy, but when you get a chance can you maybe look over the post and provide an explanation, either here or in the thread? Thanks

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 12 2009, 04:00 PM

JVM, here we go with your 2nd assignment for December!


Dorian backing track and cadence

- Create a backing track using Dorian cadence for chord progression.
- Key and tempo of your choice.
- Backing track must contain at least bass and drums!
- Minimum of 16 bars is acceptable for this assignment.
- If you have completed assignment before deadline, upload it here for me to approve it. If I do so you can start working on soloing over it!

Deadline for your 2nd assignment is 18th of December!

Let me know if you got any questions JVM.

Pedja

P.S. I will respond in the thread regarding your question so that others can benefit from it as well

Posted by: JVM Dec 12 2009, 09:25 PM

Do you have any suggestions on how to record bass well? I don't have a bass, but I have an electro harmonix POG which can drop my guitar's output an octave. I have heard about some bass VSTs and such, but I don't know how to use them or which ones etc.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 12 2009, 10:19 PM

Sure thing JVM. If you are using Nuendo or Cubase, you will find under VST instruments bass something like vb-7. What you basically can do is type the bass line in Guitar pro, export it as Midi, import it into Nuendo/Cubase/Any other digital audio workstation software, assign bass virtual instrument (VST) and it will play back for you what you composed.
Which DAW (digital audio workstation) are you using currently ?

Posted by: JVM Dec 12 2009, 10:55 PM

I use reaper. I don't have guitar pro, and I got tuxguitar one time but it didn't work well so I uninstalled it. But I can try again.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 13 2009, 12:00 AM

I don't use Reaper but I am sure there is free Bass VST in there as well just like in Cubase and Nuendo. Also within Reaper look for something like Midi Editor. You will be able to type in notes on a piano clef and choose rhythm values on top (thats the way it works in Nuendo). By using tuxguitar or Guitarpro, you are actually going around while you can do all the things in Reaper. I just like doing things in Guitarpro because when I transcribe things for my lessons I provide students with bass part also along with guitar part so its just a habit for me plus I like the way Guitarpro platform looks for transcribing

Posted by: JVM Dec 13 2009, 05:12 PM

Cool. I have been playing around a bit with the midi editor in Reaper. It's going to take some getting used to but the assignment should be no problem

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 14 2009, 05:49 PM

Great JVM. Look for some instructional videos on Youtube regarding Reaper or simply ask members here at GMC - a lot of them use Reaper!

Posted by: JVM Dec 17 2009, 07:21 PM

Hi Pedja,

Since I've been busy all week (school is finally over), but I still wanted to get the assignment in on time, I've kept the key to C, so D dorian. The bassline is a bit crude I think, but it will work I guess. More practice needed there, but it's a lot of fun to be able to create "full" backings now, so it will be fun practice Here is the backing I've come up with, let me know what you think:

 dorian.mp3 ( 2.19MB ) : 176

Posted by: JVM Dec 18 2009, 03:10 AM

I just noticed I'm a little bit out of tune. I will re-record the rhythm guitar (and probably make some changes to the bassline too) when I do the solo, if everything checks out of course.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 19 2009, 01:17 AM

JVM I like the idea a lot! Bluesy Dorian backing track, great laid back tempo for soloing. What needs to happen is your 2nd guitar part, when you are doing those rhythm Hendrix like double stop fills, needs to be much tighter and with drums! If you get this, record it again and get it to sound tighter, then your solo will sound tighter later on automatically. Also, I don't know if I mentioned or not but you can "step record" when recording. That means you can record one beat, bar or any length that you want by using markers when recording and activating them. That way recording only starts and stops at the points you labeled!
So what I will do now is since you did good drums and decent bass line, I will approve this but in your 3rd assignment you will need to correct rhythm guitar and do a solo!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 20 2009, 06:01 PM

JVM we now continue with more assignments. I will assign you 3rd, 4th and REC assignment now as we have 11 days to complete the whole work. 3rd assignment will be REC as well so we are really doing 2 assignments

3rd assignment :

Triads in C major scale part 1

- Record video of Triads in C major scale part 1 lesson found http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Triads_in_Major_Scale_Series_Part_1/
- Use backing track provided in the thread when recording it.
- Try to apply left hand fingerings I applied but stick to right hand fingerings all the way.
- Upload video on Youtube and post it in this thread here.
- After you are done with video, post it for REC program!

4th assignment :

Dorian mode backing and soloing

- Correct your rhythm guitar on the backing you provided (make it more tighter and on click)
- Record a solo at least 16 bars (video and/or audio is both acceptable) using chord tones only from the given chords. So if your chord is B min7, you can only play notes B D F# A in any order or way you want. You also have a choice to play just some notes out of the chord, you don't have to play all of them!
- Post your work in this thread here.

Deadline for both assignments is 31st of December!

Let me know if I could help in any way.

Pedja

Posted by: JVM Dec 20 2009, 06:15 PM

Should be no problem Pedja. I will have my family visiting for the holiday, but I think I can find the time to accomplish this

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 20 2009, 06:20 PM

That would be fantastic if you manage it all, I very much look forward to it!

Posted by: JVM Dec 22 2009, 02:51 AM

I've re-recorded the rhythm guitar and improved the bassline I think, but I have a question about the solo. How strictly do you want me to use chord tones in the solo? There are a couple points in the rhythm where chords are just kind of passing, do I need to hit those chord tones as the chord is passing, or can I feel the 'gravity' of the progression and use the tones of the main chords as the progression shifts in it's direction? I hope that was understandable.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 22 2009, 04:15 AM

Do one take with what you have in mind and then I can tell you if it is good enough. Ideally I would want you to do it 100% through the solo. This will enable your ears to start looking interval and harmony relationship faster.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 29 2009, 04:17 AM

Hello JVM,

How are you doing with assignments 3 and 4 ? We are getting close to deadline, lets try to complete them all by the end of this year

Posted by: JVM Dec 29 2009, 10:15 PM

Hi Pedja,

things are calming down a lot after the holiday and I may be able to finish the assignments in time, but it will be close.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 30 2009, 11:38 PM

Hi JVM,

I hope you can finish it all tomorrow if not we may have to extend by day or two.

Posted by: JVM Dec 31 2009, 12:31 AM

The problem is, my family is going to a different town tomorrow for new year's celebrations. While I have the lesson pretty much down and I think I could do the solo tomorrow for you (though I do already have a recorded solo, just it's not chord tones only), the biggest obstacle will be simply producing the video, syncing with the audio. If you have any tips to help there, that would be great.

And I may end up staying here at home while the family goes out, I have had enough celebrating for the past week We'll see. For now I'm being pulled away again, but perhaps I could even do the solo later tonight.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Dec 31 2009, 03:36 AM

JVM no worries my friend. Submit the solo that you have, I am sure you included chord tone elements in it. Regarding the lesson, I am not sure how you want me to help you with video syncing and all? The video you submitted in December showed me that you could do audio + video together, I didn't see anything wrong with that video. If you submit triads lesson that way it will be perfect!

Posted by: JVM Dec 31 2009, 10:55 PM

Pedja, where can I get the backing for this lesson? I think I may have to do the video tomorrow. You can still probably give me my next assignment on time tomorrow though, if you like. Here's the solo:

 doriansolo.mp3 ( 2.19MB ) : 202

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 1 2010, 08:08 PM

JVM happy new year! May all the wishes come true for you in this year !

I am providing you the backing for the lesson now, try to do it by tomorrow or day after latest.

Posted by: JVM Jan 3 2010, 12:37 AM

Pedja, sorry I am late with this, but you can find the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o7R7pqZxDU! I don't know what you mean by the video I submitted earlier, you must have me confused with someone else as I actually did not submit a video (it wasn't required for the december MTP). Posting to the rec forum now, then.

I hope you had a great new years too, I know I maybe partied a little too hard on the eve!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 3 2010, 01:33 AM

Sorry about that JVM, I responded quickly yesterday. You submitted audio of your work which is what I meant to say. I will go ahead and check your REC submission now...

Fantastic take JVM!
Since you have completed all your work for December, I will close this thread and open January one for you today.