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Posted by: asandven Jul 13 2010, 03:48 PM

Hi there.

Lately I've been stuck in the pentatonic or minor scale when improvising.

I've been reading all I can find about scales and modes, but I still can't figure it all out.

How can I see what kind of modes/scales I can use to improvise over a song?

Do I change scale, when I change chord?

Posted by: maharzan Jul 13 2010, 04:05 PM

I think you should try to grab one scale/mode at a time. Its surprising you didn't mention major scale but you know minor scale. I thought most players start out with pentatonic and then major scale.

Anyway, study one scale or mode at one time and understand it. Theory is a must imo (which I am trying to grab too). From what I understand you have to pick the scale or mode depending upon the chord combination in the song.

Posted by: kaznie_NL Jul 13 2010, 04:19 PM

QUOTE (maharzan @ Jul 13 2010, 05:05 PM)

I think you should try to grab one scale/mode at a time. Its surprising you didn't mention major scale but you know minor scale. I thought most players start out with pentatonic and then major scale.

Anyway, study one scale or mode at one time and understand it. Theory is a must imo (which I am trying to grab too). From what I understand you have to pick the scale or mode depending upon the chord combination in the song.

Posted by: Thrasymachus Jul 13 2010, 04:47 PM

Yes basically there is only one scale, the difference being which note you consider the root note.

Another way to approch this would be playing in just that one scale, focusing on hitting chord tones when the chord changes, that will automaticly give more of a model sound

Posted by: asandven Jul 13 2010, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Jul 13 2010, 03:19 PM)

Posted by: kaznie_NL Jul 13 2010, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (asandven @ Jul 13 2010, 06:01 PM)

Posted by: RobK87 Jul 13 2010, 08:46 PM

If you really want to get past this, you need to buy a theory book. There are loads out there that explain just this thing.

Posted by: asandven Jul 13 2010, 09:13 PM

Hmm... If I stick to this scale (E Meldoic Minor)
http://all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=FULL&scch=E&scchnam=Melodic+Minor+(Descending)&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1

Am I then really playing G Major?

If I keep jamming in fret 9-15, am I then playing D-Mixolydian and E-Aeolian?

It looks like all the notes in G Major for me.... maybe a book would be better...

Posted by: stratman79 Jul 13 2010, 09:49 PM

No...

although E is the relative minor of G major it contains different notes...

E natural minor (Aeolian) contains the same notes, E melodic minor has a C# & D# whereas G major has C & D natural...

But yes D mixo & E aeolian have the same notes but you approach them in different ways... obviously you don't want to be playing in D mixo (over a D7 chord) and resolving all your licks on E's (unless your looking for that 9 sound)

I think the best way is to look at a pentatonic and fill the gaps in to make it a mode... then you'll know where all the strong resolution notes are and the other notes can be used as passing notes to add the modal flavour...

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jul 14 2010, 12:56 AM

Try this http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/mastering_diatonic_pattern_caged_method/. It might shed some light on modes.

Posted by: maharzan Jul 14 2010, 03:53 AM

Well, I think its really not that easy to grasp as it seems. Like you learn one scale and you move it around. It might work for you or may not. I just don't like the idea of having to remember all those things such as I play C Major scale and then when I have to play D Dorian I have to remember it as C scale with D as root. This is an easy example but it can really get complicated if you move to other chords. So what major scale to play if I need to play Eb Lydian? like that...

For me, it works best if I just stick to major scale shape and then know which note I need to sharpen or flatten to get a mode. This way I don't have to sit there calculating which major scale I have to play to play F lydian mode or G Mixolydian mode. So, for G Mixolydian, I will just play G major scale but with flat 7th. Its all personal choice and I guess you can explore both ways and see what works best for you. Luckily, before I knew modes existed, I knew the major and minor scales and this helps me a lot.

Like Satriani said, you can try practicing all modes in just one root note like E and then try out all versions of modes within that root.

Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jul 14 2010, 03:54 PM

I'm no Charlie Parker, heheh, but what I do is to use chromatism,

use notes outside of those two scales, minor, pentatonic, to create chromatisms, but the overall structure would still be it, so you would still be falling into those notes,

Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Jul 14 2010, 04:25 PM

When you change chord you don't have to change scale, in 99% of songs. It is important to know that with each chord change you have to change focus on chord notes, for example.... D minor chord, and A minor scale, where should your center of attention be?
Well, on D, F and A which are notes belonging to D min chord...