2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Need A Chunkier Tone :(
verciazghra
post Jun 10 2019, 03:51 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



Hi! I'm working on a song now that sounds like this:
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/guitars-test/s-bvf7s

I'm not happy with the lead guitar sound. I want it to sound like this :


Discussion and help is greatly appreciated. Also the rhythm guitars... should I try to make them fatter or will that happen by itself when I add a bass?

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 10 2019, 03:52 PM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Jun 10 2019, 05:57 PM
Post #2


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 4.124
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 02:51 PM) *
Hi! I'm working on a song now that sounds like this:
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/guitars-test/s-bvf7s

I'm not happy with the lead guitar sound. I want it to sound like this :


Discussion and help is greatly appreciated. Also the rhythm guitars... should I try to make them fatter or will that happen by itself when I add a bass?

Kris made a Yngwie tone video recently with the kemper, have a check might help.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 10 2019, 09:34 PM
Post #3


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 10 2019, 04:57 PM) *
Kris made a Yngwie tone video recently with the kemper, have a check might help.

Can't really afford a kemper mate. Thanks for the suggestion though


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Jun 10 2019, 09:56 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 4.124
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 08:34 PM) *
Can't really afford a kemper mate. Thanks for the suggestion though


No point wasn't that laugh.gif He uses mostly familiar tools to shape the tone while speaking on the usage.

The youtube vid. though not exact but is pretty familiar on yngwie tone (more humbucker-like), what did you use on your soundcloud link? if you share settings etc. then it would be possible for other to give suggestions.

But I can recommend trying the freeware emissary amp and the ir loader (which comes with free ir), bit of a hassle to download but to me it rivals many payware for such tones; https://www.stltones.com/products/stl-ignit...-plug-in-bundle


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 10 2019, 10:22 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



Ah biggrin.gif sorry I thought that's what you meant. I used bias fx for tone here's my settings.

I only use software ampsims, don't have anything else at the moment. But that also means I can re-amp so I guess that's something. The guitar used is a really nice suhr with great(although somewhat weak)pickups if that helps you. It doesn't help me to compensate, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to tone.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 10 2019, 08:56 PM) *
No point wasn't that laugh.gif He uses mostly familiar tools to shape the tone while speaking on the usage.

The youtube vid. though not exact but is pretty familiar on yngwie tone (more humbucker-like), what did you use on your soundcloud link? if you share settings etc. then it would be possible for other to give suggestions.

But I can recommend trying the freeware emissary amp and the ir loader (which comes with free ir), bit of a hassle to download but to me it rivals many payware for such tones; https://www.stltones.com/products/stl-ignit...-plug-in-bundle


Does this sound slightly better https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/maximum-power-test3/s-nxJZn ?
Redid some settings and eq'ed it around a bit.

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 10 2019, 10:08 PM
Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image
 


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Jun 11 2019, 02:47 AM
Post #6


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 18.334
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Works for me smile.gif There are wads of folks that use that plugin. Our own CAEL uses it and has some killer presets. I"m taking a guess that he would be up for sharing some or may have already shared them to the community bit in the app. I have shared a few tone patches myself in the community section.

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 05:22 PM) *
Ah biggrin.gif sorry I thought that's what you meant. I used bias fx for tone here's my settings.

I only use software ampsims, don't have anything else at the moment. But that also means I can re-amp so I guess that's something. The guitar used is a really nice suhr with great(although somewhat weak)pickups if that helps you. It doesn't help me to compensate, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to tone.



Does this sound slightly better https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/maximum-power-test3/s-nxJZn ?
Redid some settings and eq'ed it around a bit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jun 11 2019, 02:57 AM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.004
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 10:22 PM) *
Ah biggrin.gif sorry I thought that's what you meant. I used bias fx for tone here's my settings.

I only use software ampsims, don't have anything else at the moment. But that also means I can re-amp so I guess that's something. The guitar used is a really nice suhr with great(although somewhat weak)pickups if that helps you. It doesn't help me to compensate, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to tone.



Does this sound slightly better https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/maximum-power-test3/s-nxJZn ?
Redid some settings and eq'ed it around a bit.

try mixing two different amps . I also would try a second drive in front of the amps ( you can turn the gains lower and use them to control tone ) also your amps eq section is off , I have found these controls to really affect the tone . ( i have mine set bass about 7 , mid slightly under 5 and treble and presence about 6
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 11 2019, 03:10 AM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



That's some great advice folks! It's actually starting to shape up, I went for a single amp for that guitar instead of two, that seems to have done a lot for the tone. Did a bit of more eq'ing nothing fancy. It can still use a lot of work but I think I'll get there... https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 11 2019, 04:08 AM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Jun 11 2019, 03:35 AM
Post #9


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 18.334
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Using two amps is tricky. Almost all of my tones in sims use one patch. The only time I use two paths are in patches where I"m using one path for octave or some other effect. I have found that two amp paths can cause a LOT of signal cancellation which can make the sound smaller instead of bigger.

Also, I can't hear your track you shared on soundcloud? Says it's not there? Mayeset to private?
One last thing, when I was using BIAS, I found it better to pre drive the signal that post drive it. E.G. Putting more boost, eq before the amp stage and using
less gain on the amp to increase articulation and overall BIGness.
QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 10:10 PM) *
That's some great advice folks! It's actually starting to shape up, I went for a single amp for that guitar instead of two, that seems to have done a lot for the tone. Did a bit of more eq'ing nothing fancy. It can still use a lot of work but I think I'll get there... https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 11 2019, 04:05 AM
Post #10


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 11 2019, 02:35 AM) *
Using two amps is tricky. Almost all of my tones in sims use one patch. The only time I use two paths are in patches where I"m using one path for octave or some other effect. I have found that two amp paths can cause a LOT of signal cancellation which can make the sound smaller instead of bigger.

Also, I can't hear your track you shared on soundcloud? Says it's not there? Mayeset to private?
One last thing, when I was using BIAS, I found it better to pre drive the signal that post drive it. E.G. Putting more boost, eq before the amp stage and using
less gain on the amp to increase articulation and overall BIGness.

Oh I was using the wrong link... here it is https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf


Yeah I find that to be the case a lot of the time too. Cancellation with two amps I mean. I'm also going to add a harmony very panned with a similar tone so I need the space to be pretty clean.


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jun 11 2019, 10:22 PM
Post #11


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.004
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 11 2019, 03:10 AM) *
That's some great advice folks! It's actually starting to shape up, I went for a single amp for that guitar instead of two, that seems to have done a lot for the tone. Did a bit of more eq'ing nothing fancy. It can still use a lot of work but I think I'll get there... https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Jun 12 2019, 06:32 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 18.334
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



if you do use a panned dual path, it can help to use different cabs/mics/amp heads and different placement of the mics on the cabs. Anything to prevent the overlap that causes cancellation. Even with a hard pan.

Also, I'm sure you know this, harmonized bits do better with a pinch less gain in many cases. The gain structure starts compressing the signal and the harmony gets a bit squashed after that an cancellation. So reducing gain and using two tonally different rigs can help.

As you still using Overloud? I've got wads of patches on that. Just not using BIAS anymore so I can't help much with patches there.
I like the track you shared smile.gif I Hear the harmony with a keyboard I think? or highly processed guitar. The mid/upper mid will thin out if your not careful, but if you want it to thin out, be more 8 bit, just add more gain, use similar rigs in two paths etc. The opposite of the first bit of advice.

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 10 2019, 11:05 PM) *
Oh I was using the wrong link... here it is https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf


Yeah I find that to be the case a lot of the time too. Cancellation with two amps I mean. I'm also going to add a harmony very panned with a similar tone so I need the space to be pretty clean.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 12 2019, 07:47 AM
Post #13


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 16.194
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 11 2019, 05:05 AM) *
Oh I was using the wrong link... here it is https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf


Yeah I find that to be the case a lot of the time too. Cancellation with two amps I mean. I'm also going to add a harmony very panned with a similar tone so I need the space to be pretty clean.


Amazing music as always, vercia - you rock!!

I am listening to this latest sample and comparing with your reference youtube video.

I think you have cut away low end on the wrong place. The reference track lacks most of the boomy bottom end but then has very defined low midrange. Then it also has shimmer on top (try a treble booster / "presence") and quite some treble as well. Your tone sounds a bit scooped which might make playing feel easier but does not work well in the mix.

The trickiest part is usually to find a good marshall type hi-gain amp to start with and then apply a tube screamer to tighten the right bart of low spectrum.

My Yngwie tone video which Mertay referenced does this indeed:



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 13 2019, 01:40 AM
Post #14


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



[attachment=48790:2019_06_...02_37_53.mp4]
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 12 2019, 05:32 AM) *
if you do use a panned dual path, it can help to use different cabs/mics/amp heads and different placement of the mics on the cabs. Anything to prevent the overlap that causes cancellation. Even with a hard pan.

Also, I'm sure you know this, harmonized bits do better with a pinch less gain in many cases. The gain structure starts compressing the signal and the harmony gets a bit squashed after that an cancellation. So reducing gain and using two tonally different rigs can help.

Yeah I bet I can check it with a phase issue plugin though.
I was instinctively planning on having the harmonized bits very low in the mix and with less gain.

QUOTE
As you still using Overloud?

I don't use Overloud anymore unfortunately. I found it to be too harsh in tone and really hard to tame for more fusion like tones which are the ones I like the most.



QUOTE
I like the track you shared smile.gif I Hear the harmony with a keyboard I think? or highly processed guitar. The mid/upper mid will thin out if your not careful, but if you want it to thin out, be more 8 bit, just add more gain, use similar rigs in two paths etc. The opposite of the first bit of advice.

You're too kind! Thanks a lot! There's a doubling of the guitar part with a synthesizer and it was just a placeholder patch, I've tweaked it slightly now so it doesn't interfere with the presence of the guitar.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 12 2019, 06:47 AM) *
Amazing music as always, vercia - you rock!!

Thank you so much! It makes me very happy that you enjoy it.


QUOTE
I think you have cut away low end on the wrong place. The reference track lacks most of the boomy bottom end but then has very defined low midrange. Then it also has shimmer on top (try a treble booster / "presence") and quite some treble as well. Your tone sounds a bit scooped which might make playing feel easier but does not work well in the mix.

I tried to fix this and add a lot more treble. The amp model I was using,5150, barely reacted with tonal changes on treble or presence settings so I swapped it for a marshall type amp. I still don't know if I think the Ys tone sounds THAT MUCH like Yngwie's I feel like it's a lot rounder, almost like a mix between a violin and a saxophone. While I always think of Yngwie's tone as having a bit more bite and grit almost exactly like a violin/viola.

The video also helped a bit in finding some different angles to look at. It's still not done by a long way but here's how it sounds now and a video of me showing what I ended up with(so far).

This song is for a musicweekly think that I'm collaborating with another guy and the deadline is friday night, so I only have 2 days to figure out if I want to write more parts, if I want to do any more recording and then how much time I'll have mixing it.

Here's a status update. Feel free to come with more tips(except for the rhythm guitar on the second part which needs a redoing but I've been working for too long on it now and need to rest).



This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 13 2019, 01:42 AM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jun 13 2019, 01:51 AM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.004
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 13 2019, 01:40 AM) *
I tried to fix this and add a lot more treble. The amp model I was using,5150, barely reacted with tonal changes on treble or presence settings so I swapped it for a marshall type amp. I still don't know if I think the Ys tone sounds THAT MUCH like Yngwie's I feel like it's a lot rounder, almost like a mix between a violin and a saxophone. While I always think of Yngwie's tone as having a bit more bite and grit almost exactly like a violin/viola.

Your output settings ( lower right ) look like they are still off . These really affect the tone
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 13 2019, 01:58 AM
Post #16


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 13 2019, 12:51 AM) *
Your output settings ( lower right ) look like they are still off . These really affect the tone

Is that why it keeps jumping around instead of showing a steady signal?

Should it be like this?



At least this did something to the tone.. I think it sounds about 20% better from just that.

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 13 2019, 02:08 AM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jun 13 2019, 02:33 AM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.004
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 13 2019, 01:58 AM) *
Is that why it keeps jumping around instead of showing a steady signal?

Should it be like this?

At least this did something to the tone.. I think it sounds about 20% better from just that.

there is an on/of switch that is like a combination of both amps EQ section ,right next bass, trble , mid and presence control , lower right . Once you turn it on those control are real sensitve , it still looks like it is off . When you turn it in you will have to keep an eye on clipping
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 13 2019, 03:02 AM
Post #18


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



Hm okay finally understood what you meant..... My brain is bad. Either it sounds better now or my ears are falling off from too much of the same sonic frequencies without a break....

This was what you meant...



This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 13 2019, 03:10 AM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jun 13 2019, 03:22 AM
Post #19


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3.004
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 13 2019, 03:02 AM) *
Hm okay finally understood what you meant..... My brain is bad. Either it sounds better now or my ears are falling off from too much of the same sonic frequencies without a break....

This was what you meant...


yep , not around speakers right now, but it sounds a little fuller off my labtop
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Jun 13 2019, 03:57 AM
Post #20


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



Added a tiny harmony and have no trouble phase trouble even with the same tone according to MultiScope.
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/full-thursday-early/s-5wa6F

Here's with some bass and some other rhythm guitars also in context with the rest of the song which is nowhere near finished... Thought I'd show you guys it first. While there's still a lot of work to be done I'm feeling like this one will turn out good when it's done.

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 13 2019, 04:21 PM


--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd July 2019 - 11:29 PM