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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Mixing Help And Advice
Posted by: Jim S. Jul 13 2015, 08:42 PM
Hey Everyone! I am getting more into live recording with a live band and need some advice on mixing tips and maybe mic placement or whatever someone with experience has to offer.
Below are 3 stems of a rough recording. Keep in mind that the music is rehearsed, its a section of an improv. I do want to be able to know what to do when we get something really down. I want to be ahead of the game and when I am ready to record Ill have a better idea of how to handle the tracks.
The overhead mics and bass drum are mixed into one track for right now but plan to separate them and add a mic or two.
If you had these stems how would you start mixing them?
Guys/Gals Thanks in advance
full_mix.mp3 ( 1MB )
: 474
Guitar.mp3 ( 1MB )
: 469
bass.mp3 ( 1MB )
: 465
overhead_mic.mp3 ( 1MB )
: 468Posted by: Mertay Jul 13 2015, 09:55 PM
Best you can do is to enhance the recording sound before recording, I listened the tracks and the fist thing I noticed was there was a lot of leakage in the drum sound with the guitar. So if I increase drum or decrease guitar (not only volume but compression or eq etc. too) the guitar sound will get muddy at it gets more mixed with an unrelated mic. .
After a live recording (including big projects like say metallica etc.) there isn't much processing to be honest, %90 of it is the sound coming from the console. Sure you can clear up things with an eq or add some reverb to enhance the live feel but pretty much thats about it. Even at the mastering stage most effort is to clear unwanted noise...
So don't target anything like an album sound. Instead, enhance that live/garage feeling by trying to capture everything as clean as possible. By enhancing, for example I noticed the limiter was used very strong...screw that 
thats a very album-sound-like approach, make things feel more personal 
If you're confused and not sure about yourself on gaining a live sound, go outside and listen live music no matter what genre it is. Also for home, most jazz albums are recorded live in studio and they are also good references.
Posted by: Ricky9 Jul 14 2015, 03:33 AM
A couple good reads. Hope it helps.
http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/resourceDetail/122.html
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul07/articles/loudbands.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov11/articles/recording-live-show.htm
Posted by: Jim S. Jul 14 2015, 03:53 AM
After a live recording (including big projects like say metallica etc.) there isn't much processing to be honest, %90 of it is the sound coming from the console. Sure you can clear up things with an eq or add some reverb to enhance the live feel but pretty much thats about it. Even at the mastering stage most effort is to clear unwanted noise...
So don't target anything like an album sound. Instead, enhance that live/garage feeling by trying to capture everything as clean as possible. By enhancing, for example I noticed the limiter was used very strong...screw that
thats a very album-sound-like approach, make things feel more personal If you're confused and not sure about yourself on gaining a live sound, go outside and listen live music no matter what genre it is. Also for home, most jazz albums are recorded live in studio and they are also good references.
Hey great call! Yes there should be way way less guitar in those overheads. I need to mic those drums a little better and try deflect the loudspeakers away from those mics. Great advice I'll keep in mind "what it is I want to capture."
I figured that most of the work would be before recording but I wasn't sure where to start. Thanks mertay!
Posted by: Mertay Jul 14 2015, 10:28 AM
I figured that most of the work would be before recording but I wasn't sure where to start. Thanks mertay!
You're welcome! You can also use panels to isolate the mic.s better, anything thick and big enough would help.
Pretty cool by the way you guys are recording, there's nothing more musically rewarding than that!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 14 2015, 08:12 PM
Hi mate,
I did a quick mix, please check it out and let me know what you think....
full_mix.mp3 ( 2.57MB )
: 381
about the recording, the bass was not very clear, is it a direct line take? I added an ampeg emulated to make it sound better. The drums are tricky to mix having everything on the same channel. It would be very helpful to have 2 extra channels for kick and snare.
Posted by: Jim S. Jul 15 2015, 01:35 AM
I did a quick mix, please check it out and let me know what you think....
full_mix.mp3 ( 2.57MB )
: 381about the recording, the bass was not very clear, is it a direct line take? I added an ampeg emulated to make it sound better. The drums are tricky to mix having everything on the same channel. It would be very helpful to have 2 extra channels for kick and snare.
Hey thanks for taking time to mix it a bit. I did not listen with much attention but plan to tomorrow. What I could tell is the volume was a lot higher without clipping. It seemed to me it was ready to clip so I'd like to know what avenues you walked to do that. Next is that it did seem clear and more defined bass.
Speaking of bass and replying to Mertays last comment about how cool it is to record like this. The recording is my dad, brother and myself. We try to spend time together with music, it's about the one thing we can talk about and enjoy. This is just for fun but I do have bigger plans just not in the making now. My dad plays bass and he's always second guessing himself. Last year I almost talkies him into joining here but I don't think he ever did.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 15 2015, 06:10 AM
Congrats on making progress in your recording!! If you want to do a proper mix, not a "live to tape" sort of thing, then you can use the tracks you have as "Scratch tracks" and go back and have each person play their part by themself while listening to the scratch track. That way you can get a very clean signal on each take. Make sense?
This is how it's often done when you go in to a studio an pay big money You'll do scratch tracks of the songs, then go back and record each track by itself. Especially if the band records the scratch track in the same room with the mics bleeding in to one another.
This does mean doing everything twice though and multi tracking in your daw. IS this workable for you? It sounds like you have the makings of a fine recording!!
Todd
Below are 3 stems of a rough recording. Keep in mind that the music is rehearsed, its a section of an improv. I do want to be able to know what to do when we get something really down. I want to be ahead of the game and when I am ready to record Ill have a better idea of how to handle the tracks.
The overhead mics and bass drum are mixed into one track for right now but plan to separate them and add a mic or two.
If you had these stems how would you start mixing them?
Guys/Gals Thanks in advance
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 15 2015, 05:20 PM
Speaking of bass and replying to Mertays last comment about how cool it is to record like this. The recording is my dad, brother and myself. We try to spend time together with music, it's about the one thing we can talk about and enjoy. This is just for fun but I do have bigger plans just not in the making now. My dad plays bass and he's always second guessing himself. Last year I almost talkies him into joining here but I don't think he ever did.
Yes, I used this plug in to make the overall mix sounds more powerful:
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_vintagewarmer2/
and this one to emulate the bass amp: http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/ampegsvx/
I also did some EQ tweaks on bass and guitars. Drums are very tricky to manage because everything is there, and it has too much guitar on it too...
Let me know what you think of what you hear...
Posted by: Jim S. Jul 18 2015, 01:59 AM
Hey guys thanks for all your advice and I dig those tutorial sites too! I picked up a 16 ch mixer and plan to do another recording on Sunday. I'm going to try and cover the bass drum with a blanket and direct the speakers away from the other mics. Hopefully I can have 6 total tracks which should help isolation. Thanks guys I'll keep you posted!
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 18 2015, 05:53 AM
Is there any reason you don't just "Multitrack" the recording? E.G. Record a scratch track and the record each instrumental in isolation so that you can mix better and get good separation? It would kill the problem with all the signal bleed
Posted by: Mertay Jul 18 2015, 12:25 PM
Cool!
I remembered this video later on and thought it might help by what I mean by panels, sure one can't inverst for a room as such but I find it educative;Posted by: Jim S. Jul 18 2015, 03:23 PM
You know what.... Your absolutely right! I'm spending quite a bit of time trying to get a live recording when I should just plan better.
It does depend who I'm playing with too. If I play with my dad then I'll just have to record the room. But if it's music I'm writing I'll multitrack it. I'm going to do some recording Sunday and try a few things out.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 21 2015, 12:54 AM
Bingo! If you are playing with your dad, just try to get isolation on his parts as much as you can live. I don't remember what instrument he is playing. If it's drums that will be a bit harder but not impossible. You can put the other musicians in another room and use headphones to connect everyone. If you have to record live that's one of the better ways The bass player can skip the amp entirely and just record direct and be pumped in to everyones headphones so no bass bleed. THe guitar player can be in the room with his amp. Separate from the room with the drummer. So for live thats your best bet
For non live, just multi track everything. You can have everyone do a live take just for a "scratch track" and then just replace all the tracks with overdubs in the mix
It does depend who I'm playing with too. If I play with my dad then I'll just have to record the room. But if it's music I'm writing I'll multitrack it. I'm going to do some recording Sunday and try a few things out.
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