Sensible Politics Thread Options

[AK Rich]

None, and the earth is not flat - check your sources mate!

Btw no comments on the Russia connection?

I'll comment on it . The fact is , there has been no evidence whatsoever found of any wrongdoing. There is however a possibility the illegal wiretaps. This battle is about establishment vs Trump period.
PS: The earth is not flat comment is a bit smart assed and insulting, is it not Mr Moderator?

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[Kristofer Dahl]

I'll comment on it . The fact is , there has been no evidence whatsoever found of any wrongdoing. There is however a possibility the illegal wiretaps. This battle is about establishment vs Trump period.
PS: The earth is not flat comment is a bit smart assed and insulting, is it not Mr Moderator?

Where have you been? General Flynn has resigned because of Russia lies and Attorney General Sessions recuses himself from investigations related to Trump 's election - because he lied under oath about his Russia contacts!

I live in Sweden's capital Stockholm I have been trying to tell jstcrsn for a while that 50% of our woman are not raped by immigrants and we do not have any muslim " no go zones " . So if his sources tell him that, or anything else (such as the earth being flat), he might want to question them. Considering he spoke about "fake news" I thought this might be of interest to him.

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This post has been edited by Kristofer Dahl: Mar 13 2017, 04:14 PM

[AK Rich]

Contrary to what some seem to believe. The wheels of justice do not come to a screeching halt because of the actions of the Trump admin. It is the same action every president takes when replacing the opposition party. The only difference is how it was accomplished.
Something that has been described as unprecedented. So what?

All of the positions are temporarily filled as I have already explained. The current cases before these courts will in fact continue, if anything there will be some short holdups as the temporary replacements come up to speed on the cases they take over but in most cases the attorneys that were under the ones who have resigned or been fired are already familiar and may have already been working on those cases themselves in some capacity. Furthermore the folks that will be nominated for these positions will go through the confirmation process as usual. So maybe not business as usual, but certainly politics as usual.

The real reason that the left and folks in the media are upset about this is because they have planned (and it's no secret) to put up as many barriers as they can to slow down and disrupt the current admin. Including dragging their feet on confirmations.

By removing these attorneys immediately without a permanent replacement. It forces congress to confirm nominees in a timely manner because if they don't, it will be congress that looks bad. If those judges stayed until new ones were confirmed, the Dems and even some Repubs could stonewall the confirmations without any real backlash.

Obviously the left is trying to continue to run the country through the Judicial branch of Gov using the courts that have been stacked with liberals during the past admin. So if those judges go away, so does their last grasp at continuing to hold on to some kind of power.

The 9th Circuit has shown that it will ignore the rule of law and make decisions based on a perceived mindset of Trump, and emotions in ruling against the travel ban. That court referenced no law whatsoever in it's ruling to stay the hold on the ban.
This court is probably the most overturned court in the country because of decisions like this and their decisions are overturned about 80% of the time in recent years.

Until I see some real evidence of wrongdoing concerning Russia, everything else is just BS put out by the media to sway public opinion through innuendo. This or that might have happened or could have happened means nothing and beating this dead horse the way the left, the media and the establishment are doing will further erode support of all of them which don't have a heck of a lot of support to begin with as far as the public is concerned.

If there were any real damning evidence, I think it would have been out already because obviously there were those within the intelligence community and the past admin that were looking into it very thoroughly, and maybe even illegally.

Where have you been? General Flynn has resigned because of Russia lies and Attorney General Sessions recuses himself from investigations related to Trump 's election - because he lied under oath about his Russia contacts!

I live in Sweden's capital Stockholm I have been trying to tell jstcrsn for a while that 50% of our woman are not raped by immigrants and we do not have any muslim " no go zones " . So if his sources tell him that, or anything else (such as the earth being flat), he might want to question them. Considering he spoke about "fake news" I thought this might be of interest to him.

Where have you been? There is absolutely no evidence there was any wrongdoing concerning Flynn's conversation with a Russian ambassador. Conversations between incoming US officials and foreign ambassadors is common introductory practice. Nothing inappropriate has been shown to occur.
Flynn was asked to resign because he wasn't completely forthcoming on one of those conversations, not because there was something nefarious in that conversation.

Sessions has recused himself so that if nothing is found in the investigations the left cannot cry foul because Sessions oversaw the investigation.

PS: I don't remember the media or anyone really on the left getting all bent out of shape over this little gem.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 13 2017, 06:05 PM

[Todd Simpson]

There is a far right (borderline personality perhaps?) guy named ALEX JONES who screams a LOT and is big on saying they have a huge muslim problem in Sweden. However, as you all know Kris actually LIVES IN SWEDEN so I'm thinking we can trust the man on the ground a bit rather than the propagandist with the screaming disorder?

Here is a link to ALEX JONES web site with an article about the "MUSLIM QUESTION"
https://www.infowars.com/swedish-police-ove...uslim-violence/

And of course there is a vid to go with it about the "rape of swedish girls by muslims"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7t7jUBrnno

Essentially this is just race baiting and plays well among the xenophobic elements of our society. The same way "THE WALL" plays well. Despite the fact that actually keeping "illegals" out of our country would cripple the Farming (e.g fruit pickers in california), Domestic Help (E.g. the Republican senator, and everyone else, with an undocumented maid), Construction (e.g. day laborers) and other industries that rely on cheap, undocumented labor. It plays, it sells, it works, so he keeps saying it

For many Trump Supporters Russia is a Non Issue. After all, in the right wing outlets of media, it's barely spoken of. When it is spoken of, it's dismissed. So if you get your news from right/alt right sources, then you probably don't see any problem at all.

If you get your news from say, Reuters, you may have noticed this article about Republican Law Makers pushing for answers and a full investigation to find out how deep the ties are between Trump and Russia. After all, we can't see his tax returns, so we have no idea what his financial ties are or are not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN15U1IK

None, and the earth is not flat - check your sources mate!

Btw no comments on the Russia connection?

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 13 2017, 09:21 PM

[Kristofer Dahl]

Where have you been? There is absolutely no evidence there was any wrongdoing concerning Flynn's conversation with a Russian ambassador. Conversations between incoming US officials and foreign ambassadors is common introductory practice. Nothing inappropriate has been shown to occur.
Flynn was asked to resign because he wasn't completely forthcoming on one of those conversations, not because there was something nefarious in that conversation.

Sessions has recused himself so that if nothing is found in the investigations the left cannot cry foul because Sessions oversaw the investigation.

PS: I don't remember the media or anyone really on the left getting all bent out of shape over this little gem.

I know you are smart guy mate - but I really cannot see where your argument is coming from. Do you honestly think Sessions would risk lying under oath - if he didn't have something (serious) to hide? It could cost him his career!

Sure there are lots of legitimate ways for US politicians to meet up with Russians, but that is beside the point.

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[jstcrsn]

Where have you been? General Flynn has resigned because of Russia lies and Attorney General Sessions recuses himself from investigations related to Trump 's election - because he lied under oath about his Russia contacts!

I live in Sweden's capital Stockholm I have been trying to tell jstcrsn for a while that 50% of our woman are not raped by immigrants and we do not have any muslim " no go zones " . So if his sources tell him that, or anything else (such as the earth being flat), he might want to question them. Considering he spoke about "fake news" I thought this might be of interest to him.

Trump is not at fault for others lying . He found out, the guy is gone . Thats the right course of action. Sessions recusing himself - the right course of action unlike the attorney general Lynch meeting with bill clinton while she is investigating Hillary- wrong course of action . Find the thread where I said 50 percent and i will discuss it with you , but I can not remember saying 50 percent.

sources on no go zone http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-o...article/2007000

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Mar 14 2017, 12:35 AM

[AK Rich]

I know you are smart guy mate - but I really cannot see where your argument is coming from. Do you honestly think Sessions would risk lying under oath - if he didn't have something (serious) to hide? It could cost him his career!

Sure there are lots of legitimate ways for US politicians to meet up with Russians, but that is beside the point.

It is not beside the point and Sessions did not lie under oath. He was specifically asked if he had discussed the campaign with Russian officials, which he maintains he did not and there is no evidence to the contrary. He was not asked about conversations he had as a Senator, and member of the Armed Services Committee in which as part of that job, he has had many meetings with foreign ambassadors. So he is accused of lying about something he wasn't specifically asked about. He failed to disclose meetings that were part of his job most likely because it was not relevant since he was specifically asked about discussing the campaign with Russian officials.
This is just dirty partisan politics because of the fear the left has for a Jeff Sessions as AG.
And I think they have good reason to fear if he pursues some matters that have happened over the past 8 years.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 14 2017, 02:22 AM

[Kristofer Dahl]

He was specifically asked if he had discussed the campaign with Russian officials, which he maintains he did not and there is no evidence to the contrary.

Could you please point towards a recording of that question? Because here is what I can find and he is clearly asked if anyone in the campaign had any contact with Russians during the campaign: https://youtu.be/Bywm3ZAOrSA?t=6s

So the question was not limited to "discussions around the campaign only", and neither was his reply. This makes his reply an obvious lie.

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[AK Rich]

Could you please point towards a recording of that question? Because here is what I can find and he is clearly asked if anyone in the campaign had any contact with Russians during the campaign: https://youtu.be/Bywm3ZAOrSA?t=6s

So the question was not limited to "discussions around the campaign only", and neither was his reply. This makes his reply an obvious lie.

What? Listen to it again. In that specific question Sessions was asked if there was evidence of anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian Gov during the course of the campaign, what would he do? He answered that he was not aware of any of those activities and he did not have them either. That is a question regarding conversations with the Russians about the campaign. How is he supposed to know what communications others may have had? Anyway he wasn't asked if anyone or himself had communications, he was asked what would he do if there was evidence that there were communications.

Everybody in DC knows Sessions himself had communications with Russian officials during the campaign because that was his job as a Senator and member of the Armed Services Committee. Meetings in which the Trump campaign was not discussed.

He really didn't even have to recuse himself, he only did so to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest as perceived by the left and so there could be no question of the results of any investigation if nothing is found.

Here is some relevant news:

http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-don...dence-of-crimes

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 14 2017, 04:29 PM

[Todd Simpson]

Ouch! Source check time! The "WEEKLY STANDARD" is a right wing conservative publication owned by NEWS CORP e.g. FOX NEWS. Alias Rupert Murdoch's Funnel of right wing propaganda. Maybe get a better source? Or Trust the guy that lives in Sweden

Trump is not at fault for others lying . He found out, the guy is gone . Thats the right course of action. Sessions recusing himself - the right course of action unlike the attorney general Lynch meeting with bill clinton while she is investigating Hillary- wrong course of action . Find the thread where I said 50 percent and i will discuss it with you , but I can not remember saying 50 percent.

sources on no go zone http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-o...article/2007000

Source Check Part II! CIRCA is owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, which is yet another right leaning conglomerate. They are the second largest owner of local affiliates in the US and have 19 FOX stations in their stable. News is only as good as it's source.

..

Here is some relevant news:

http://circa.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-don...dence-of-crimes

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[Kristofer Dahl]

What? Listen to it again. In that specific question Sessions was asked if there was evidence of anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian Gov during the course of the campaign, what would he do? He answered that he was not aware of any of those activities and he did not have them either. That is a question regarding conversations with the Russians about the campaign. How is he supposed to know what communications others may have had? Anyway he wasn't asked if anyone or himself had communications, he was asked what would he do if there was evidence that there were communications.

Everybody in DC knows Sessions himself had communications with Russian officials during the campaign because that was his job as a Senator and member of the Armed Services Committee. Meetings in which the Trump campaign was not discussed.

Assuming the people of DC follow the same rules of logic as the rest of the world - they will also think it is very strange to lie under oath for absolutely no reason. It's a bit like someone asked me if I saw who stole the cookies from the jar, and I answer that I would never dream of killing the neighbours cat.

That incident alone can of course pass as an isolated happening, but when added to all the other denials of campaign officials' communications with and connections with Russian officials - I think even the people in DC agree they are not likely to be coincidences.

But hey mate I am trying to help you here. If it turns out Russia is in charge of your country now, you better act swiftly as they have no interest in maintaining democracy. If I were you I would demand clarification from the WH asap - and if it turns out there was no reason to worry I will be the first to celebrate with you.

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[Todd Simpson]

Sadly, KRIS, we can't really act swiftly here. As I mentioned before, the entire government is currently leaning to the right and is under the control of the Republicans. Sure, if something really horrible is found out, then perhaps an impeachment hearing, but that's a long shot at this point IMHO. Every branch of Govt is currently "Right Leaning" as Republicans have majority rule in congress and soon to be on the Supreme court, and in the White House. That's all three branches of govt locked up.

So short of something truly beyond eviil coming out about the Pres, and then absolute proof offered there is just not much to be done until the next round of elections. I personally think this is why we are seeing so much of this type of thing (e.g. the russian connection/etc) in the news as the Administration knows they are nearly bulletproof for the time being.

Assuming the people of DC follow the same rules of logic as the rest of the world - they will also think it is very strange to lie under oath for absolutely no reason. It's a bit like someone asked me if I saw who stole the cookies from the jar, and I answer that I would never dream of killing the neighbours cat.

That incident alone can of course pass as an isolated happening, but when added to all the other denials of campaign officials' communications with and connections with Russian officials - I think even the people in DC agree they are not likely to be coincidences.

But hey mate I am trying to help you here. If it turns out Russia is in charge of your country now, you better act swiftly as they have no interest in maintaining democracy. If I were you I would demand clarification from the WH asap - and if it turns out there was no reason to worry I will be the first to celebrate with you.

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[Kristofer Dahl]

My impression is that there is an intense FBI investigation going on, and that the WH is very nervous trying to distract from what is about to happen. I don't get a feeling they are relaxed nor feeling bulletproof in any way. But hey I'm Swedish

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[Todd Simpson]

You are very up on US politics it seems More so than Many of my countrymen I'm sad to say. Also, you don't seem to quote leftist or right wing sources on the web which is IMHO a very good thing.

The administration knows they are being looked at but Trump does tend towards bluster and arrogance and I doubt he feels like he is in any real trouble. All indications are that he is in fact, heading in to very hot water, but his hold on every branch of govt is quite strong and he is a bit self deluded IMHO, so until his impeachment hearing I doubt we will see him sweat. Until then, he will just declare anything negative to be "Fake News" or "Alternative Facts" and the country will have to soldier on.

I am glad you are swedish so that maybe you can convince some folks that the bits of "news" on all the far right wing sites about the "no go zones" and the rape of swedish woment by muslims is really just more of the same old same old, which is to say, propaganda and fear mongering. Sure I'm guessing there are at least a few cases of nearly everything every where that one could point to. But isolated incidents do not a "wave of violence" make. Still, that sort of thing plays Soooooo well here with half the country, that you keep seeing it. Headlines like
"EUROPE FALLS TO MUSLIM HORDES"
"EU REGRETS LETTING TERRORISTS IN"
"ECONOMY WRECKED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS"
tend to get clicks, so we will continue to see them Especially in the right wing online sources that I source checked earlier

My impression is that there is an intense FBI investigation going on, and that the WH is very nervous trying to distract from what is about to happen. I don't get a feeling they are relaxed nor feeling bulletproof in any way. But hey I'm Swedish

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[Kristofer Dahl]

You are very up on US politics it seems More so than Many of my countrymen I'm sad to say. Also, you don't seem to quote leftist or right wing sources on the web which is IMHO a very good thing.

The administration knows they are being looked at but Trump does tend towards bluster and arrogance and I doubt he feels like he is in any real trouble. All indications are that he is in fact, heading in to very hot water, but his hold on every branch of govt is quite strong and he is a bit self deluded IMHO, so until his impeachment hearing I doubt we will see him sweat. Until then, he will just declare anything negative to be "Fake News" or "Alternative Facts" and the country will have to soldier on.

Thanks!

The fact that he does not feel the heat might not work to his advantage. The super weird "Obama wiretapped me" accusations, could have been triggered by him realising FBI has been onto him for awhile. But then again it could also just be an echo of the weird news he watches on TV.

I am glad you are swedish so that maybe you can convince some folks that the bits of "news" on all the far right wing sites about the "no go zones" and the rape of swedish woment by muslims is really just more of the same old same old, which is to say, propaganda and fear mongering. Sure I'm guessing there are at least a few cases of nearly everything every where that one could point to. But isolated incidents do not a "wave of violence" make. Still, that sort of thing plays Soooooo well here with half the country, that you keep seeing it. Headlines like
"EUROPE FALLS TO MUSLIM HORDES"
"EU REGRETS LETTING TERRORISTS IN"
"ECONOMY WRECKED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS"
tend to get clicks, so we will continue to see them Especially in the right wing online sources that I source checked earlier

It is strange to see how Sweden is being used for propaganda. I haven't seen a Syrian immigrant ever (to my knowledge) and I live in the southern part of the city just 25 minutes away from Stockholm city center. I haven't heard of anyone I know being raped either.

However Russian reporters have been caught paying kids in the suburbs here to "show some action" - we are definitely not spared from the propaganda.

We also have a far right party that is giving simple answers to complex problems (like Trump does) and who are gaining a lot of new ground.

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[Todd Simpson]

I think you are SPOT ON with this. It won't work to his long term advantage at all IMHO. Live by the Sword eh? The intelligence services seem to have a serious problem with him in general which bodes poorly for the longevity of any president.

I can also see in my head the guys from Kremlin TV (E.g. Russia Today) Running around Sweden trying to "Bribe a Riot" Certainly not beneath the Kremlin. It's being used, I think, partially because it's so far away and hard to track, and as an example of "how bad" things will get if we let any refugees in to our country. Sadly, even the DUTCH are not immune from the rise of right wing populism. I just saw a report on the about a candidate for running the country who is essentially the Dutch Version of Trump. It's just everywhere it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...populist-threat

Meanwhile, back at home, one of our Republican Senators (Steve King) was quoted as saying ‘our civilization’ can’t be restored with ‘somebody else’s babies’. Wow. David Duke (KKK throwback) then picked up the quote and ran with it. After all, if a U.S. Senator can say that kind of crap, anybody can.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politic...m=.020735d19416

Thanks!

The fact that he does not feel the heat might not work to his advantage. The super weird "Obama wiretapped me" accusations, could have been triggered by him realising FBI has been onto him for awhile. But then again it could also just be an echo of the weird news he watches on TV.



It is strange to see how Sweden is being used for propaganda. I haven't seen a Syrian immigrant ever (to my knowledge) and I live in the southern part of the city just 25 minutes away from Stockholm city center. I haven't heard of anyone I know being raped either.

However Russian reporters have been caught paying kids in the suburbs here to "show some action" - we are definitely not spared from the propaganda.

We also have a far right party that is giving simple answers to complex problems (like Trump does) and who are gaining a lot of new ground.

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[Stenchovdeth]

Why is this topic/thread even here?
I thought this was a music education forum?

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[Kristofer Dahl]

Why is this topic/thread even here?
I thought this was a music education forum?

Good point, topic moved and titled tweaked!

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[AK Rich]

Assuming the people of DC follow the same rules of logic as the rest of the world - they will also think it is very strange to lie under oath for absolutely no reason. It's a bit like someone asked me if I saw who stole the cookies from the jar, and I answer that I would never dream of killing the neighbours cat.

That incident alone can of course pass as an isolated happening, but when added to all the other denials of campaign officials' communications with and connections with Russian officials - I think even the people in DC agree they are not likely to be coincidences.

But hey mate I am trying to help you here. If it turns out Russia is in charge of your country now, you better act swiftly as they have no interest in maintaining democracy. If I were you I would demand clarification from the WH asap - and if it turns out there was no reason to worry I will be the first to celebrate with you.

So, because he didn't actually answer the question of what he would do if there were evidence of folks within the campaign speaking to the Russians about the campaign, that is a lie under oath? Try again.

Have you watched any of the confirmation hearings? If not you are missing a great show of grandstanding, chest pounding drama and the best political theatre around.

Russia in charge of our country? I appreciate your concern but it is now you that seems to think that the earth is flat so to speak, and seems to believe in conspiracy theories without any real evidence to back them up. Because that is what this thread has turned into, a big conspiracy theory.

At least you are willing to discuss I guess. Todd on the other hand has rejected the news article I have posted but has not disputed anything in the article or anything I have posted to this point in this thread.
Sensible politics thread? That's a laugh.

Just so you guys know, I have some problems with Trump too. But they are problems based on real issues and up to this point and until, and if, I see some real evidence of any wrongdoing I am not going to worry about this.

Sorry to crash your little party, Todd. I'll leave you to it, but let me know when you find evidence of collusion with the Russians in Trumps tax returns that have just been illegally leaked. Have fun guys! I'll leave you with some more evil right wing propaganda that is relevant on my way out.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4455...reveal-omission

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 15 2017, 05:06 PM

[jstcrsn]

Why is this topic/thread even here?
I thought this was a music education forum?

yes , but you stumbled into a CNN echo chamber

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