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> "peak Beard"? Post 9/11 Facial Hair
Todd Simpson
post Jun 8 2019, 09:44 PM
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It seems that we are nearing "PEAK BEARD" here in Amurica. It started with Special Forces operators given the right to wear facial hair to gain the trust of locals in the middle east. It's filtered down to every dude in the states. Great article about it. What do you guys think?

https://newrepublic.com/article/154033/amer...e=pocket-newtab
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Adam
post Jun 8 2019, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 8 2019, 09:44 PM) *
It seems that we are nearing "PEAK BEARD" here in Amurica. It started with Special Forces operators given the right to wear facial hair to gain the trust of locals in the middle east. It's filtered down to every dude in the states. Great article about it. What do you guys think?

https://newrepublic.com/article/154033/amer...e=pocket-newtab
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It makes a difference if they were give the right or the order to have a beard. I can see why that happened but then I didn't think it was forbidden in the first place, that they had to give a permission. I think it's up for every human to decide what to wear and what to avoid. Personally I think facial hair is a nuisance but I'm also too lazy to take care of it as often as I should. I heard it gets more comfortable after growing it to a certain point but I don't have the patience biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 9 2019, 01:55 AM
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I should have probably said it before, It is strictly forbidden for active military men to wear beards unless given special permission. The rules strictly state that Military men are be be clean shaven at all times while in uniform. There are exceptions made to this rule Such as deployment in places life Afghanistan. That's sorta what the article is talking about. the idea that, if you have a beard, you are one of the elite special forces guys who got special permission. Essentially, that one is a badass. That's what the article goes in to. How it has "trickled down" to regular people now, outside the military. smile.gif

I agree that it's up to every human to choose their fur of choice smile.gif Military men have far less choice in the matter. Unless they are active duty in a place like the Middle East and need to gain the trust of the locals, which is why the special forces guys were given special permission to wear facial hair.

It is a rather long article. I probably should have summarized it. Essentially, iit's saying that having a beard has come to symbolize a bit of "Machismo" more so than normal for men as it was adoped by elite soldiers in dangerous war zones despite regulations to the contrary. As a result, more people than ever before now wear beards here in the United States. Some do it just because other folks are doing it and it's become fashionable. The article is suggesting that the roots of the BEARD MOVEMENT go back to the post 9/11 world of the special operator.



QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 8 2019, 06:16 PM) *
It makes a difference if they were give the right or the order to have a beard. I can see why that happened but then I didn't think it was forbidden in the first place, that they had to give a permission. I think it's up for every human to decide what to wear and what to avoid. Personally I think facial hair is a nuisance but I'm also too lazy to take care of it as often as I should. I heard it gets more comfortable after growing it to a certain point but I don't have the patience biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 9 2019, 01:55 AM
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PosterBoy
post Jun 9 2019, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 9 2019, 01:55 AM) *
I should have probably said it before, It is strictly forbidden for active military men to wear beards unless given special permission. The rules strictly state that Military men are be be clean shaven at all times while in uniform. There are exceptions made to this rule Such as deployment in places life Afghanistan. That's sorta what the article is talking about. the idea that, if you have a beard, you are one of the elite special forces guys who got special permission. Essentially, that one is a badass. That's what the article goes in to. How it has "trickled down" to regular people now, outside the military. smile.gif

I agree that it's up to every human to choose their fur of choice smile.gif Military men have far less choice in the matter. Unless they are active duty in a place like the Middle East and need to gain the trust of the locals, which is why the special forces guys were given special permission to wear facial hair.

It is a rather long article. I probably should have summarized it. Essentially, iit's saying that having a beard has come to symbolize a bit of "Machismo" more so than normal for men as it was adoped by elite soldiers in dangerous war zones despite regulations to the contrary. As a result, more people than ever before now wear beards here in the United States. Some do it just because other folks are doing it and it's become fashionable. The article is suggesting that the roots of the BEARD MOVEMENT go back to the post 9/11 world of the special operator.



I believe in Britain the SAS have always been allowed facial hair, often their choice was a big droopy moustache.
As for elite soldiers being the reason for men to grow beards I'm not sure. I don't think the hipster' s were influenced by them which is where I've seen the influx of beards in the last 15 years.

I grew my first beard this year, I fancied a change and in the past new chapters of my life prompted a new hair style, which can't happen nowadays so a beard was the obvious choice.

Women and young boys can't grow beards so it does have that masculine / manly connotation to it.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 9 2019, 09:49 AM
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The article is talking about American troops and culture from my initial read of it. I'm not sure how much "Bearding" filtered down from Special Forces to your average Joe. It does seem a bit of a stretch to be honest. There is a bit of a "Machismo" thing when you see the "Snake Eaters" (Rangers/Seals) going Hirsuite in movies/TV/news etc. I suspect the impact has been more subtle than the guy writing the article asserts.
QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Jun 9 2019, 02:59 AM) *
I believe in Britain the SAS have always been allowed facial hair, often their choice was a big droopy moustache.
As for elite soldiers being the reason for men to grow beards I'm not sure. I don't think the hipster' s were influenced by them which is where I've seen the influx of beards in the last 15 years.

I grew my first beard this year, I fancied a change and in the past new chapters of my life prompted a new hair style, which can't happen nowadays so a beard was the obvious choice.

Women and young boys can't grow beards so it does have that masculine / manly connotation to it.
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Sensible Jones
post Jun 10 2019, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Jun 9 2019, 07:59 AM) *
I believe in Britain the SAS have always been allowed facial hair, often their choice was a big droopy moustache.
As for elite soldiers being the reason for men to grow beards I'm not sure. I don't think the hipster' s were influenced by them which is where I've seen the influx of beards in the last 15 years.

I grew my first beard this year, I fancied a change and in the past new chapters of my life prompted a new hair style, which can't happen nowadays so a beard was the obvious choice.

Women and young boys can't grow beards so it does have that masculine / manly connotation to it.

It used to be that any arm of the Navy were allowed to grow a beard, whereas the Army and RAF were allowed to grow a Mustache but not a full beard.
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Adam
post Jun 10 2019, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Jun 10 2019, 12:03 PM) *
It used to be that any arm of the Navy were allowed to grow a beard, whereas the Army and RAF were allowed to grow a Mustache but not a full beard.
smile.gif

Pre-modern warfare, I don't think there were any regulations but then soldiers voluntarily did whatever they could to look more masculine and intimidating. Facial hair and was common among Polish army men and other nations too, probably too build charisma around them.

Looking back, mohawk was popular among Tatars, probably other slavic/nordic cultures too, as well as the barbaric warriors in general decades earlier. Indians used body-/face-painting for a similar purpose (I believe it was for spiritual purpose as well), and the Aztec warriors used tattoos and piercing. The Japanese used demonic images as a design for their head armor pieces instead and kept their natural appearance under heavy armor. The Greeks and Romans used mostly their physique as an indicator of masculinity and strength.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 11 2019, 03:50 AM
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ADAM: In terms of the U.S. Military, Beards have been officially banned by the Army since World War One. This is for a simple reason. In the even of some sort of chemical attack, soldiers need to wear a gas mask and according to the Army, being "hirsuite" of face makes that too tricky.


Many soldiers would like to do whatever they like of course, but it's not really an option for most of them and has not been an option all the way back to WWI. Unless you're SOF (Special Forces, SEALs, MARSOC, Delta Force, etc.), you're not allowed what the military calls “Relaxed Grooming Standards,” or having a beard while on deployment. Spec Ops guys are only allowed to wear beards as it's thought to decrease them being shot by a sniper. In certain parts of the world, men wear bears per religious requirement and any man without a beard is probably a westerner and can be shot as part of ongoing Jihad. The Navy were allowed during WWII as it was just too hard for them to keep shaven while at sea and it was harming morale. Beards were banned by the navy in 1984.

Soldiers want to grow beards. There have been many social media campaigns by soldiers for this very purpose.

You meant Modern Warfare the game, I did notice the Soap had a mustache! Which is in keeping with what was said about the SAS (Special Air Service) of the Brits.

QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 10 2019, 10:41 AM) *
Pre-modern warfare, I don't think there were any regulations but then soldiers voluntarily did whatever they could to look more masculine and intimidating. Facial hair and was common among Polish army men and other nations too, probably too build charisma around them.

Looking back, mohawk was popular among Tatars, probably other slavic/nordic cultures too, as well as the barbaric warriors in general decades earlier. Indians used body-/face-painting for a similar purpose (I believe it was for spiritual purpose as well), and the Aztec warriors used tattoos and piercing. The Japanese used demonic images as a design for their head armor pieces instead and kept their natural appearance under heavy armor. The Greeks and Romans used mostly their physique as an indicator of masculinity and strength.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 11 2019, 04:16 AM
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Adam
post Jun 11 2019, 04:54 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 11 2019, 03:50 AM) *
ADAM: In terms of the U.S. Military, Beards have been officially banned by the Army since World War One. This is for a simple reason. In the even of some sort of chemical attack, soldiers need to wear a gas mask and according to the Army, being "hirsuite" of face makes that too tricky.


Many soldiers would like to do whatever they like of course, but it's not really an option for most of them and has not been an option all the way back to WWI. Unless you're SOF (Special Forces, SEALs, MARSOC, Delta Force, etc.), you're not allowed what the military calls “Relaxed Grooming Standards,” or having a beard while on deployment. Spec Ops guys are only allowed to wear beards as it's thought to decrease them being shot by a sniper. In certain parts of the world, men wear bears per religious requirement and any man without a beard is probably a westerner and can be shot as part of ongoing Jihad. The Navy were allowed during WWII as it was just too hard for them to keep shaven while at sea and it was harming morale. Beards were banned by the navy in 1984.

Soldiers want to grow beards. There have been many social media campaigns by soldiers for this very purpose.

You meant Modern Warfare the game, I did notice the Soap had a mustache! Which is in keeping with what was said about the SAS (Special Air Service) of the Brits.

I didn't play the game. I actually meant modern warfare as in post-industrial years and forth, when the soldiership was more clearly defined by the army rules and codes. I didn't study history that thoroughly but I'd say I mean a few decades before WWI, when the gunpowder weapons were commonly used. Late 19th century is my guess.

Before that period, when the cannons and rapiers were weapons of choice (or back in the days when the pistols took forever to reload), I believe the rules weren't that strict and every soldier was able to take care of his own appearance more freely.

Talking about games, my favourite FPS is Conflict: Global Storm and only one of the guys in squad wears a beard and it's very short too (Mick Connors).

This post has been edited by Adam: Jun 11 2019, 04:57 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 11 2019, 07:36 AM
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Ahh smile.gif I misunderstood you completely. When you said "Modern Warfare" I'd never heard that used as a referent for world war I as a starting point but I understand now I think. Before WWI, things were a bit freewheeling in my country. Our standing Army was just not that large. We really had to ramp things up a bit. Before WWI and the use of chemical weapons on a large scale, folks didn't use gas masks that much if at all. In fact they were not really even a thing until germans started using chlorine gas in 1915 and thus had to protect their own soldiers so they came up with a military gas mask for the soldiery smile.gif

QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 10 2019, 11:54 PM) *
I didn't play the game. I actually meant modern warfare as in post-industrial years and forth, when the soldiership was more clearly defined by the army rules and codes. I didn't study history that thoroughly but I'd say I mean a few decades before WWI, when the gunpowder weapons were commonly used. Late 19th century is my guess.

Before that period, when the cannons and rapiers were weapons of choice (or back in the days when the pistols took forever to reload), I believe the rules weren't that strict and every soldier was able to take care of his own appearance more freely.

Talking about games, my favourite FPS is Conflict: Global Storm and only one of the guys in squad wears a beard and it's very short too (Mick Connors).
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Adam
post Jun 11 2019, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 11 2019, 07:36 AM) *
Ahh smile.gif I misunderstood you completely. When you said "Modern Warfare" I'd never heard that used as a referent for world war I as a starting point but I understand now I think. Before WWI, things were a bit freewheeling in my country. Our standing Army was just not that large. We really had to ramp things up a bit. Before WWI and the use of chemical weapons on a large scale, folks didn't use gas masks that much if at all. In fact they were not really even a thing until germans started using chlorine gas in 1915 and thus had to protect their own soldiers so they came up with a military gas mask for the soldiery smile.gif

I meant the modernization of army in general but now that you mentioned the first use of chemical weapons, it makes perfect sense that they made rules specifically to address this issue smile.gif


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Mertay
post Jun 11 2019, 06:05 PM
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Not allowed here in Turkey, there are some various reasons to my knowledge;

-Some shape/cuts can be adopted as political symbolism
-Can't be taken care (hygiene) of on missions up to 2 weeks or more on mountains.
-Its one of those things that help him belonging to the army psychology on the long run. Shaving daily is a small part of it but since all buddies are shaved with similar hair-cut, keeps the brotherhood thing better.


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Adam
post Jun 11 2019, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 11 2019, 06:05 PM) *
Not allowed here in Turkey, there are some various reasons to my knowledge;

-Some shape/cuts can be adopted as political symbolism
-Can't be taken care (hygiene) of on missions up to 2 weeks or more on mountains.
-Its one of those things that help him belonging to the army psychology on the long run. Shaving daily is a small part of it but since all buddies are shaved with similar hair-cut, keeps the brotherhood thing better.

I overdid thinking about it. I thought the psychological trick was this: if everyone looks as similar as possible, it is easier to come to terms with their death if that happens on a battlefield because soldier X was one of many. Having distinguishable features strengthens one's diversity and identity and it's probably much harder to say goodbye in such case. I didn't imagine such small things would help to develop bonds.


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Mertay
post Jun 11 2019, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 11 2019, 05:37 PM) *
I overdid thinking about it. I thought the psychological trick was this: if everyone looks as similar as possible, it is easier to come to terms with their death if that happens on a battlefield because soldier X was one of many. Having distinguishable features strengthens one's diversity and identity and it's probably much harder to say goodbye in such case. I didn't imagine such small things would help to develop bonds.


Every man in Turkey has to do compulsory military service, its 1 year for non-college graduates (soon will be dropped to 6 months) and almost 6 months for graduates. I did 6 months.

A huge part of it is actually the social life even during train or working, similar to any daily job really. This is where rules one probably thinks are odd can be really important. You stuff a bunch of young man from all-over the country in a closed space, to tame all that hormone/ego/youth etc. needs such rules.

But keep in mind most are for the basic soldier, I imagine variance of such rules in different countries military can be quite natural.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 15 2019, 05:05 AM
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In the states, it is just about being able to wear a gas mask properly or so they say. Also, i'm sure it helps with morale and discipline to have everyone shave every day and sorta look the same wink.gif

QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 11 2019, 01:37 PM) *
I overdid thinking about it. I thought the psychological trick was this: if everyone looks as similar as possible, it is easier to come to terms with their death if that happens on a battlefield because soldier X was one of many. Having distinguishable features strengthens one's diversity and identity and it's probably much harder to say goodbye in such case. I didn't imagine such small things would help to develop bonds.
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