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> Vivaldi Winter Arpeggios, Practice Alternate Picking
MisterM
post Mar 13 2019, 04:54 PM
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Hi there

On my last REC, Todd Darius and Kris told me to work with my thumb.
I don’t understand how to do this.

On this video, you can watch my wrist and thumb.
If you want you can tell me how to improve it.

Thx you

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Antoni...nter-Arpeggios/



This post has been edited by MisterM: Mar 13 2019, 05:02 PM
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Adam
post Mar 13 2019, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 13 2019, 04:54 PM) *
Hi there

On my last REC, Todd Darius and Kris told me to work with my thumb.
I don’t understand how to do this.

On this video, you can watch my wrist and thumb.
If you want you can tell me how to improve it.

Thx you

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Antoni...nter-Arpeggios/


All I can say being nearly 60 missions into Todd's Bootcamp, I was recently introduced to playing thumbless in it and it's difficult and comfortable in the beginning. But once you get used to it, you find yourself able to play with less muscle tension and using less strength with the fretting hand. I still consider myself a beginner in this technique but I'm already seeing the difference it makes. Definitely worth a try!


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 14 2019, 05:20 AM
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THUMB ARTICULATION: (Picking Hand)
It''s a simple thing to be honest. Your technique is good here smile.gif Just suggesting you try to bend your thumb a bit at the first joint in the thumb. This will also pull your first in a bit which will bend mostly at it's second joint. This is just another way to control the pick. For arps/sweeps, what you are doing in this vid works great. Keeping a fairly stiff/rigid hand and picking from the wrist.
What I was talking about in the other thread was for parts where you are playing a ascending or descending scale. When doing that, controlling the pick with finer/smaller movements, using the thumb/finger can result in better control than picking everyhing from the wrist.

Play the A Minor Scale low to high string. Watch your thumb. Play slow. Now play it again and this time try to bend your thumb just a bit when you are doing alternate strikes and /or changing strings. it can result in a degree of more control on the pick hand. It's not required of course. Just another approach. Try it and make a quick vid.Here is a quick demo vid. Watch my picking hand and picking hand thumb. You'll see that my thumb sometimes bends during picking passages.


THUMBLESS: (Fretting Hand)
The technique adam is talking about is for the fret hand, not the pick hand. In "thumbless" technique, simply lift your left thumb OFF the back of the neck and use only your finger tips to fret the notes. This will show you if you are using "overpressure" on your fret hand. Just a way to help train the left hand not to clamp down too hard. Sometimes one needs to clamp down hard, but not always.


QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 13 2019, 11:54 AM) *
Hi there

On my last REC, Todd Darius and Kris told me to work with my thumb.
I don’t understand how to do this.

On this video, you can watch my wrist and thumb.
If you want you can tell me how to improve it.

Thx you

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Antoni...nter-Arpeggios/



This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 14 2019, 05:49 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 14 2019, 03:37 PM
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I recorded a quick video to try to explain how you can go about isolating and practicing the thumb joint movement:



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MisterM
post Mar 14 2019, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 14 2019, 05:20 AM) *
THUMB ARTICULATION: (Picking Hand)
It''s a simple thing to be honest. Your technique is good here smile.gif Just suggesting you try to bend your thumb a bit at the first joint in the thumb. This will also pull your first in a bit which will bend mostly at it's second joint. This is just another way to control the pick. For arps/sweeps, what you are doing in this vid works great. Keeping a fairly stiff/rigid hand and picking from the wrist.
What I was talking about in the other thread was for parts where you are playing a ascending or descending scale. When doing that, controlling the pick with finer/smaller movements, using the thumb/finger can result in better control than picking everyhing from the wrist.

Play the A Minor Scale low to high string. Watch your thumb. Play slow. Now play it again and this time try to bend your thumb just a bit when you are doing alternate strikes and /or changing strings. it can result in a degree of more control on the pick hand. It's not required of course. Just another approach. Try it and make a quick vid.Here is a quick demo vid. Watch my picking hand and picking hand thumb. You'll see that my thumb sometimes bends during picking passages.


THUMBLESS: (Fretting Hand)
The technique adam is talking about is for the fret hand, not the pick hand. In "thumbless" technique, simply lift your left thumb OFF the back of the neck and use only your finger tips to fret the notes. This will show you if you are using "overpressure" on your fret hand. Just a way to help train the left hand not to clamp down too hard. Sometimes one needs to clamp down hard, but not always.


Thank you Todd smile.gif

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 14 2019, 03:37 PM) *
I recorded a quick video to try to explain how you can go about isolating and practicing the thumb joint movement:



Thank you Kris for this personnal video, it's an honor
Now, I know the way of practice, I go work on this direction.

This post has been edited by MisterM: Mar 14 2019, 05:14 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 14 2019, 08:16 PM
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Hope it helps bro. Btw I have an easier video setup now so I hope to be doing more of these!


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 15 2019, 02:20 AM
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Very cool vid! Might make a good GMC lesson actually!
Todd
QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 14 2019, 12:06 PM) *
Thank you Todd smile.gif



Thank you Kris for this personnal video, it's an honor
Now, I know the way of practice, I go work on this direction.
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Monica Gheorghev...
post Mar 15 2019, 08:47 AM
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Kris made you a perfect explanation!!! His feedback not let room to add things....but maybe I can say something.
After you manage the movements that Kris showed you, it's a good moment to start to put accents. It's just a nice add at the same technique. All you need to do it's to push the pick inside the string using the thumb movement to pushing hard. You will see how nice feeling the lick will got. Also at fast speed, accents are essentials to keep the perfect timing, so the thumb movement will do the job in a precisely way. wink.gif


As a conclusion, using your thumb while picking will help you to have a good control over strings and also to reach higher speeds (because it minimize the move and maximize the speed).
Learning to work with my thumb was the thing which made me able to play the lessons from level 8. smile.gif
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 15 2019, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Mar 15 2019, 08:47 AM) *
As a conclusion, using your thumb while picking will help you to have a good control over strings and also to reach higher speeds (because it minimize the move and maximize the speed).
Learning to work with my thumb was the thing which made me able to play the lessons from level 8. smile.gif


And there you go. Monica has made insane alternate picking progress recently!


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MisterM
post Mar 16 2019, 09:31 AM
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Thank you Monica for feedback

It’s hard because it rushes a lot of things.
Soon 7 years I play the guitar again and I had never noticed that.

I will try to hold on but I see this as a mountain to cross.
To conclude it is very discouraging

I have always been patient, I will try to continue

This post has been edited by MisterM: Mar 16 2019, 09:33 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 16 2019, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 16 2019, 09:31 AM) *
Thank you Monica for feedback

It’s hard because it rushes a lot of things.
Soon 7 years I play the guitar again and I had never noticed that.

I will try to hold on but I see this as a mountain to cross.
To conclude it is very discouraging

I have always been patient, I will try to continue


You must have misunderstood my message because you have no reason to be discouraged. If my prediction is correct, you have a very steep learning curve ahead of you. If you practice what I showed you we might be talking about weeks only until you will emerge as a much more confident 'picker' - given how good your technique looks even without this essential movement.

So to clarify, I don't expect you to build any speed with the "joint movement only" method I showed you. You should just practice it at slow tempos, and then try picking with your normal technique and see what happens. Does it make sense?


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MisterM
post Mar 16 2019, 05:38 PM
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Hi Kris

I understood, I I’work since 3 days the method you told me
I want to work fast but if I accelerate my thumb hardly moves
It’s frustrating to play at 70 BPM but I keep on playing

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Todd Simpson
post Mar 17 2019, 02:10 AM
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Re training your hand for a new style of play is going to take some time to be sure. It's worth it though smile.gif Learning any new bit can take more than a few days. Be patient with yourself. Picking with the thumb/forefinger is more about gaining a new way to control the pick and less about an increase in speed. Just keep playing as you normally would but try to focus on using this new picking approach as you go. Just make it part of your playing moving forward. Before you know it, this method of picking will seem like second nature.

Todd
QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 16 2019, 12:38 PM) *
Hi Kris

I understood, I I’work since 3 days the method you told me
I want to work fast but if I accelerate my thumb hardly moves
It’s frustrating to play at 70 BPM but I keep on playing


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 17 2019, 02:14 AM
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Monica Gheorghev...
post Mar 17 2019, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 16 2019, 08:31 AM) *
Thank you Monica for feedback

It’s hard because it rushes a lot of things.
Soon 7 years I play the guitar again and I had never noticed that.

I will try to hold on but I see this as a mountain to cross.
To conclude it is very discouraging

I have always been patient, I will try to continue


I understand you perfectly because I went through this. Look, I had a lot moments of crisis and in my mentoring with Darek, we had some hard times because of my stubbornness. Believe me, I was lucky because he did not shoot me so far. tongue.gif Through time I understood that if I want to reach a high level, I can't skip things just because I found them being too hard for me.
To make things work and develop myself as guitarist, first I had to change myself as person. Two years ago I made a promise to Darek (I never break my promises) and from that moment I fallowed all the things that he told me to do, without to ask "why" (now I'm the most obedient student smile.gif ). We don't waste time anymore trying to convince the other why something is better and our work got an extra boost.
I started to think in a different way and I found a good mental balance. Now I don't see a tragedy in making two steps back to be able to make one step further. Actually now I laugh every time I must redo some things. smile.gif


Don't feel yourself discouraged. Actually you should be very proud of yourself. Instructors told you about this "thumb movement" because they always see the skills behind of student. With each new level that you will achieve, the instructors will be more demanding with you because you have so much potential that deserve to be squeezed to the maximum smile.gif
Of course, things will not happen overnight and in my case it took me 6 months to have a good control over "thumb movement" from the slowest tempo to the 200 bpm. You have patience and this is the most important thing. wink.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 18 2019, 04:14 AM
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well said smile.gif Take heart. It's an endless journey after all. Your relationship with your guitar is one that you will explore for the rest of your life on this earth. You learn new things about yourself as you learn new things about music and about learning. There is always something new to learn and something new to seek a level of mastery over. This is yet another link in the chain that will form your journey. Take each step knowing that you will get better each day smile.gif
Todd
QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Mar 17 2019, 12:23 PM) *
I understand you perfectly because I went through this. Look, I had a lot moments of crisis and in my mentoring with Darek, we had some hard times because of my stubbornness. Believe me, I was lucky because he did not shoot me so far. tongue.gif Through time I understood that if I want to reach a high level, I can't skip things just because I found them being too hard for me.
To make things work and develop myself as guitarist, first I had to change myself as person. Two years ago I made a promise to Darek (I never break my promises) and from that moment I fallowed all the things that he told me to do, without to ask "why" (now I'm the most obedient student smile.gif ). We don't waste time anymore trying to convince the other why something is better and our work got an extra boost.
I started to think in a different way and I found a good mental balance. Now I don't see a tragedy in making two steps back to be able to make one step further. Actually now I laugh every time I must redo some things. smile.gif


Don't feel yourself discouraged. Actually you should be very proud of yourself. Instructors told you about this "thumb movement" because they always see the skills behind of student. With each new level that you will achieve, the instructors will be more demanding with you because you have so much potential that deserve to be squeezed to the maximum smile.gif
Of course, things will not happen overnight and in my case it took me 6 months to have a good control over "thumb movement" from the slowest tempo to the 200 bpm. You have patience and this is the most important thing. wink.gif
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MisterM
post Mar 18 2019, 07:28 AM
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Hi Monica, Hi Todd

Alternate Picking is a technique that often gave me problems,
Maybe because I prefer to play Stéphane lucareli's lesson that require a lot of legato Sweeping and hybrid picking.

I gave up some of the lessons about going back. Today, I understand why.
I have been playing them again since a few days. I apply the technique Kris showed me.
I play slowly but I find it enjoyable. My pick is closer to the string and it’s a good sensation.

I have never been a Shred fan but I would like to add this skill to my playing because it is important if I want to go further,
Thank you for your comforting feedback, I continue to work, I will make a video in a few weeks to show you my progress

Have a nice day

This post has been edited by MisterM: Mar 18 2019, 07:32 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 20 2019, 12:38 AM
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Keep at it smile.gif I'll bet you make an enormous amount of progress in a very short time. You will suprise yourself.

TOI
QUOTE (MisterM @ Mar 18 2019, 02:28 AM) *
Hi Monica, Hi Todd

Alternate Picking is a technique that often gave me problems,
Maybe because I prefer to play Stéphane lucareli's lesson that require a lot of legato Sweeping and hybrid picking.

I gave up some of the lessons about going back. Today, I understand why.
I have been playing them again since a few days. I apply the technique Kris showed me.
I play slowly but I find it enjoyable. My pick is closer to the string and it’s a good sensation.

I have never been a Shred fan but I would like to add this skill to my playing because it is important if I want to go further,
Thank you for your comforting feedback, I continue to work, I will make a video in a few weeks to show you my progress

Have a nice day
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MisterM
post Aug 6 2019, 05:54 PM
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Hi friend all around the world

I've been working for almost four months with advice from KRIS, TODD & GAB.
I signed up for BOOTCAMP, I validated Mission 19.

Every day I think about my thumb joint.
despite all my efforts, I feel progress but it seems so tiny.

Here's my video recording today




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Todd Simpson
post Aug 7 2019, 05:16 AM
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I think you have very solid technique here. It's clean, it's well played, you have good pick control and muting and hand synch. I think you are making great progress! It is probably harder so see from your perspective as you hear yourself play every day so it happens in much smaller steps. We see you play on videos and time passes in between each one so it's obvious to me that you are making gains. Sometimes it seems like it's very slow just because you only see the daily slight increase. Trust me, it's there!

Your picking technique is very good. If you want to explore thumb/finger articulation, forget about the left hand for a minute. Just take it off the guitar. Plant your palm on the bride and don't let it move. Now using just your finger and thumb, try to touch the pick to each string going up and each one going down. That's a basic articulation drill smile.gif
Todd
QUOTE (MisterM @ Aug 6 2019, 12:54 PM) *
Hi friend all around the world

I've been working for almost four months with advice from KRIS, TODD & GAB.
I signed up for BOOTCAMP, I validated Mission 19.

Every day I think about my thumb joint.
despite all my efforts, I feel progress but it seems so tiny.

Here's my video recording today


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Aug 7 2019, 07:15 AM
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QUOTE (MisterM @ Aug 6 2019, 04:54 PM) *
Hi friend all around the world

I've been working for almost four months with advice from KRIS, TODD & GAB.
I signed up for BOOTCAMP, I validated Mission 19.

Every day I think about my thumb joint.
despite all my efforts, I feel progress but it seems so tiny.

Here's my video recording today




It's visible that you worked and believe me we see your huge progress more than you can imagine.
Todd has right, you have a very solid technique and I also like the fact that you play clean.

But....you still not make the movement that we looking for (it's true that your thumb it doesn't look so stiff anymore). In your video you keep the thumb finger bend, but your movements come from the wrist not from your thumb.
You need to block your wrist and let the thumb finger to make the job.


Make an experiment. Try when you practice in a slow tempo to not let your wrist to make any movement. Freeze your wrist and put your thumb finger to make a much wide movement than should be. Totally exaggerate with the thumb movement until you will get used to it. At some point your thumb will start to make automatically the motion in a correct way without to think at it. Have patience and things will start work. wink.gif



Look, you have here a short demo from a lesson that I work. I play this at 200 bpm but this time I posted for you a demo at 175 bpm because it's much easy to see exactly my thumb movement. Also I zoomed the right hand. I'm not used to work in Adobe Premiere but I don't know how to zoom so much in other program. So if the image it's not perfect clear, please forgive me. smile.gif
Be careful at my right hand when I start to play the run. I don't involve the wrist for movement. My thumb makes all the job and that's why I not even feel the speed.



This post has been edited by Monica Gheorghevici: Aug 7 2019, 07:59 AM
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