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> Bad Experience At Fiverr
Todd Simpson
post Oct 21 2019, 10:38 AM
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As I posted a bit back, I thought I'd give FIVERR a try for new collab projects. I was recruited by a guy from Israel and created two solos for two of his songs for the single $5 price. It took me half a day to write and record these. Here are both of them and here is the feedback. Get this. The guy wanted something like YNGWIE's TRILOGY SUITE!!! For $5? Wow. Here is a vid with both. For $5 I thought they worked great. Whaddya think?
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Thanks Tod, the solos are nice but like I wrote I'm looking for something else. Solos that sound very composed , no improvised sounding moments ... like Highway Star, Trilogy Suite ...
all the solo should have a "masterpiece" feel, like in the link I sent

currently I liked only one section in between of the Liquidators solo at [0:36-0:50]. all the rest should be something different...

Thanks and sorry

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yoncopin
post Oct 21 2019, 02:09 PM
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Just LOL


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klasaine
post Oct 21 2019, 02:40 PM
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Totally normal comments from a writer/producer regarding their concept of a track.
The ridiculousness is the whole $5 thing.
The kind of and amount of work he wants is more in the $350 to $600 range (seriously).

*This is just me but I'd write back, "I totally understand. The simple and static nature of the harmony under the solo sections wasn't implying Blackmore or Yngwie to me. Good luck man!"
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Mertay
post Oct 21 2019, 03:32 PM
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Klasaine is right, if thats the backing he pretty much asks for an entire structure of an instrumental section to be composed. A "solo's" role is "filler" to a song, not something to have sections inside it given the time length and basicness of the backing track.

5 dollar for that is plain funny, but he might have no idea what he's asking for. Your fault here is underselling yourself o matter what the reason might be.



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Todd Simpson
post Oct 21 2019, 05:33 PM
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UPDATE!!!

The guy is sooooo cheap, that despite me giving him two solos for $5 instead of one, he is welching on the order and refusing to pay. It's five bucks for petes sake? Some clients, you just gotta get as far away as possible.
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BINGO!! You nailed it. The simple and static nature of the harmony under the solo sections wasn't implying YNGWIE or "Masterpiece" at all. I played to what was there. Sadly, in his mind, reality is just very very different. I wrote him back and said essentially as much last night. Told him I'd still give him the deliverable if he wants but that my time was used up on this one.

He evidently writes music in software, probably guitar pro, hires guys on fiver to play and sing it, then takes credit for the tracks. Fun.
Todd


QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 21 2019, 09:40 AM) *
Totally normal comments from a writer/producer regarding their concept of a track.
The ridiculousness is the whole $5 thing.
The kind of and amount of work he wants is more in the $350 to $600 range (seriously).

*This is just me but I'd write back, "I totally understand. The simple and static nature of the harmony under the solo sections wasn't implying Blackmore or Yngwie to me. Good luck man!"


Well, the site is called "FIVERR" and the idea is you can start up a new relationnship that could lead to more steady work. Your giving them the first one for free basically.

Ken is spot on per usual, the guy wants hundreds of dollars worth of work for actually paying 5 bucks. Not to mention, what he is asking for is essentially impossible due to the tracks themselves. I gotta write something that fits the tracks and neither one of those has a solo section that begs for a technical masterpiece.



QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 21 2019, 10:32 AM) *
Klasaine is right, if thats the backing he pretty much asks for an entire structure of an instrumental section to be composed. A "solo's" role is "filler" to a song, not something to have sections inside it given the time length and basicness of the backing track.

5 dollar for that is plain funny, but he might have no idea what he's asking for. Your fault here is underselling yourself o matter what the reason might be.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 21 2019, 05:46 PM
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Mertay
post Oct 21 2019, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 21 2019, 04:33 PM) *
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So you must earn 5 buck to then increase whatever you think you deserve on that site? have a friend or relative join the site as customer to hire you for 5, then you'll buy them 10 dollar worth beer biggrin.gif

Your approach is like a local studio owner who just opened shop, with web you shouldn't do that cause unlike a local area the client can go to whoever he wants (web is overcrowded with people) with the money in mind. I understand your approach to value of business relationship but as harsh as it is that will not work with the internet.





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Todd Simpson
post Oct 21 2019, 10:20 PM
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Hahaha smile.gif That's not really it. The idea is that you can charge whatever you want, but that most people have one $5 option which is just to get the ball rolling. Otherwise, you could never make enough money for it to be worth it at all.

So yeah, it's not "my approach", it's just how fiverr sorta works. They encourage people to have at least one fiver option which is what gets people in the tent as it were. But you can charge a million bux per gig if you want. I just wanted to try it out to see who I might meet. I usually do collab solos for free, so this would be no different. The only difference I found was that I really didn't like the music of the guy that picked me since I didn't pick him. I did it as an experiment. At this point, I am amazed the site is still open at all.

I"m going back to picking my own people to collab with smile.gif
The guy did realize what he was asking for. That's the funny part.. He wants way more than he's willing to pay for and way more than his tracks can justify musically. He's just cheap and untalented. It's my fault for not listening to the tracks before agreeing to give it a go. I thought, what the heck, I'll try anything once. Mistake.

Todd


QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 21 2019, 01:34 PM) *
So you must earn 5 buck to then increase whatever you think you deserve on that site? have a friend or relative join the site as customer to hire you for 5, then you'll buy them 10 dollar worth beer biggrin.gif

Your approach is like a local studio owner who just opened shop, with web you shouldn't do that cause unlike a local area the client can go to whoever he wants (web is overcrowded with people) with the money in mind. I understand your approach to value of business relationship but as harsh as it is that will not work with the internet.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 21 2019, 10:35 PM
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Mertay
post Oct 21 2019, 11:18 PM
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A non-musician (bit better than beginner level, he can do songwriting but with the most basic chords) friend of mine is very serious about fiverr since I sent the link to him.

His idea is to finish making 3-4 songs, have his friend and him play the acoustic guitars and the rest (bass, drums maybe keyboard) from fiverr musicians.

He sent me a few drummer links, ranging from 5 to I think around 50-75 dollars per song. Thing is he really took the time finding those guys and made the list. So as I observed him as a potential fiverr customer 2 things were most important; the genre and the demo song of the fiverr musician.

Money is less important, my friend doesn't make much even for my country standards but he's ready to pay 100 dolar per track for each of the selected musicians. He has a dream to have a few songs uploaded to spotify etc. and once fulfilled thats probably it...unless some miracle happens and he gets insane listening counts which likely will not happen.

So such (day-job) guys can't write songs everyday and more importantly don't know any musicians or where to find them (ones that play what he likes to listen). To me this is probably 80-90% of fiverr customers consist of and you hit one of the bad ones.

But still your style covers a good range of genre's so I suggest keeping your profile page, accept and get used to "communicating" with such guys (in a way their limitation of music expression/communication aren't so different than most of your beginner students) and ask for a reasonable price for yourself. Even the worst scenario (say 1-2 clients in the next 6 months) getting some extra cash might still make fiverr worth for you.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 21 2019, 11:40 PM


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klasaine
post Oct 22 2019, 05:34 AM
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Situations like that happen within the 'traditional' model of recording too.
As with "all things on-line" it's just a lot bigger and a lot cheaper.
*I can't believe he didn't pay you the f'n 5 bucks. That's messed up. Is there a clause that states that if they don't use it they don't have to pay you?

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Adam
post Oct 22 2019, 02:58 PM
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Some of my friends do a similar thing with graphic designs and believe me, they often get people like this! This guy was lucky to come across you of all people. If anything, he might have found an amateur like himself (they probably use this site too!) and if he wasn't happy with your work, imagine how he'd react to an amateur's solo.

I think the way you put it is the best - to choose the person yourself instead of being chosen by a random guy. The more books I read, the more I'm convinced that the employee should ask his potential employer for CV instead of handing over his own but that's the world we live in. I hope you have a better luck next time!


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 22 2019, 08:43 PM
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I know right? I wrote and recorded both solos, just to try the process out. Yup, guy was so cheap that he cancelled the project and I let him as I was done with him by then.


MERTAY: yeah, I dove in way to quick on this one. I"m leaving my profile up, but yeah, gonna be a lot more picky in the future.



QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 22 2019, 12:34 AM) *
Situations like that happen within the 'traditional' model of recording too.
As with "all things on-line" it's just a lot bigger and a lot cheaper.
*I can't believe he didn't pay you the f'n 5 bucks. That's messed up. Is there a clause that states that if they don't use it they don't have to pay you?


I had the same thought. He evidently took time to pick the best players he could find and I was the only one silly enough to think he was kidding when he asked for "masterpiece work" yngwie trilogy dream suite, compositions, for 5 bucks smile.gif

Todd
QUOTE (Adam @ Oct 22 2019, 09:58 AM) *
Some of my friends do a similar thing with graphic designs and believe me, they often get people like this! This guy was lucky to come across you of all people. If anything, he might have found an amateur like himself (they probably use this site too!) and if he wasn't happy with your work, imagine how he'd react to an amateur's solo.

I think the way you put it is the best - to choose the person yourself instead of being chosen by a random guy. The more books I read, the more I'm convinced that the employee should ask his potential employer for CV instead of handing over his own but that's the world we live in. I hope you have a better luck next time!
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Fran
post Oct 23 2019, 08:59 AM
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Wow. What a cheap individual you came across Todd.

I used fiverr in the past to have a guy make me the cover of a book I wrote, and all was smooth and I was happy with the final result. Was it perfect? Hmm, nope, it could have been even better, but was it good enough? Hell yes! I like the cover and I think getting that kind of expertise for just 5$ was mind blowing.

Some people just don't value how much hard work it takes to achieve something Todd. Their loss.


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Caelumamittendum
post Oct 23 2019, 09:30 AM
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I wouldn't give up completely on it though, these things happen. I'm not sure exactly how Fiverr works. Would it be possible to preview a person's track before accepting the job?

Very cheap of him to not just pay the 5 bucks. It's just 5 bucks for Pete's sake.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 24 2019, 04:44 AM
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It was my bad for just jumping in without hearing the tracks first and for not taking him seriously when he said "yngwie masterpiece". I thought he was being sarcastic given he wanted 2 solos for the 5 bucks smile.gif chalk it up to learning experience. I'm gonna be a bit more picky next time. Also gotta manage the client expectations. It's really just to meet new folks and make new music, as far as I"m concerned, the money is only a token amount. Just ran in to the wrong guy and moved to quick. Live and learn.
Todd
quote name='Caelumamittendum' date='Oct 23 2019, 04:30 AM' post='772242']Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I wouldn't give up completely on it though, these things happen. I'm not sure exactly how Fiverr works. Would it be possible to preview a person's track before accepting the job?

Very cheap of him to not just pay the 5 bucks. It's just 5 bucks for Pete's sake.
[/quote]

Live and learn smile.gif I'll be a bit more careful on the next one. It was my first time going through the process. Just pulled a baddie. A cheap baddie smile.gif
Todd
QUOTE (Fran @ Oct 23 2019, 03:59 AM) *
Wow. What a cheap individual you came across Todd.

I used fiverr in the past to have a guy make me the cover of a book I wrote, and all was smooth and I was happy with the final result. Was it perfect? Hmm, nope, it could have been even better, but was it good enough? Hell yes! I like the cover and I think getting that kind of expertise for just 5$ was mind blowing.

Some people just don't value how much hard work it takes to achieve something Todd. Their loss.
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