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Posted by: verciazghra Jun 10 2019, 03:51 PM

Hi! I'm working on a song now that sounds like this:
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/guitars-test/s-bvf7s

I'm not happy with the lead guitar sound. I want it to sound like this :


Discussion and help is greatly appreciated. Also the rhythm guitars... should I try to make them fatter or will that happen by itself when I add a bass?

Posted by: Mertay Jun 10 2019, 05:57 PM

Kris made a Yngwie tone video recently with the kemper, have a check might help.

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 10 2019, 09:34 PM

Can't really afford a kemper mate. Thanks for the suggestion though

Posted by: Mertay Jun 10 2019, 09:56 PM

No point wasn't that He uses mostly familiar tools to shape the tone while speaking on the usage.

The youtube vid. though not exact but is pretty familiar on yngwie tone (more humbucker-like), what did you use on your soundcloud link? if you share settings etc. then it would be possible for other to give suggestions.

But I can recommend trying the freeware emissary amp and the ir loader (which comes with free ir), bit of a hassle to download but to me it rivals many payware for such tones; https://www.stltones.com/products/stl-ignite-emissary-plug-in-bundle

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 10 2019, 10:22 PM

Ah sorry I thought that's what you meant. I used bias fx for tone here's my settings.

I only use software ampsims, don't have anything else at the moment. But that also means I can re-amp so I guess that's something. The guitar used is a really nice suhr with great(although somewhat weak)pickups if that helps you. It doesn't help me to compensate, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to tone.

Does this sound slightly better https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/maximum-power-test3/s-nxJZn ?
Redid some settings and eq'ed it around a bit.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 11 2019, 02:47 AM

Works for me There are wads of folks that use that plugin. Our own CAEL uses it and has some killer presets. I"m taking a guess that he would be up for sharing some or may have already shared them to the community bit in the app. I have shared a few tone patches myself in the community section.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 11 2019, 02:57 AM

try mixing two different amps . I also would try a second drive in front of the amps ( you can turn the gains lower and use them to control tone ) also your amps eq section is off , I have found these controls to really affect the tone . ( i have mine set bass about 7 , mid slightly under 5 and treble and presence about 6

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 11 2019, 03:10 AM

That's some great advice folks! It's actually starting to shape up, I went for a single amp for that guitar instead of two, that seems to have done a lot for the tone. Did a bit of more eq'ing nothing fancy. It can still use a lot of work but I think I'll get there... https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 11 2019, 03:35 AM

Using two amps is tricky. Almost all of my tones in sims use one patch. The only time I use two paths are in patches where I"m using one path for octave or some other effect. I have found that two amp paths can cause a LOT of signal cancellation which can make the sound smaller instead of bigger.

Also, I can't hear your track you shared on soundcloud? Says it's not there? Mayeset to private?
One last thing, when I was using BIAS, I found it better to pre drive the signal that post drive it. E.G. Putting more boost, eq before the amp stage and using
less gain on the amp to increase articulation and overall BIGness.

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 11 2019, 04:05 AM

Oh I was using the wrong link... here it is https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/test-4/s-T1UMf


Yeah I find that to be the case a lot of the time too. Cancellation with two amps I mean. I'm also going to add a harmony very panned with a similar tone so I need the space to be pretty clean.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 11 2019, 10:22 PM

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 12 2019, 06:32 AM

if you do use a panned dual path, it can help to use different cabs/mics/amp heads and different placement of the mics on the cabs. Anything to prevent the overlap that causes cancellation. Even with a hard pan.

Also, I'm sure you know this, harmonized bits do better with a pinch less gain in many cases. The gain structure starts compressing the signal and the harmony gets a bit squashed after that an cancellation. So reducing gain and using two tonally different rigs can help.

As you still using Overloud? I've got wads of patches on that. Just not using BIAS anymore so I can't help much with patches there.
I like the track you shared I Hear the harmony with a keyboard I think? or highly processed guitar. The mid/upper mid will thin out if your not careful, but if you want it to thin out, be more 8 bit, just add more gain, use similar rigs in two paths etc. The opposite of the first bit of advice.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 12 2019, 07:47 AM

Amazing music as always, vercia - you rock!!

I am listening to this latest sample and comparing with your reference youtube video.

I think you have cut away low end on the wrong place. The reference track lacks most of the boomy bottom end but then has very defined low midrange. Then it also has shimmer on top (try a treble booster / "presence") and quite some treble as well. Your tone sounds a bit scooped which might make playing feel easier but does not work well in the mix.

The trickiest part is usually to find a good marshall type hi-gain amp to start with and then apply a tube screamer to tighten the right bart of low spectrum.

My Yngwie tone video which Mertay referenced does this indeed:

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 13 2019, 01:40 AM

[attachment=48790:2019_06_...02_37_53.mp4]

Yeah I bet I can check it with a phase issue plugin though.
I was instinctively planning on having the harmonized bits very low in the mix and with less gain.


I don't use Overloud anymore unfortunately. I found it to be too harsh in tone and really hard to tame for more fusion like tones which are the ones I like the most.




You're too kind! Thanks a lot! There's a doubling of the guitar part with a synthesizer and it was just a placeholder patch, I've tweaked it slightly now so it doesn't interfere with the presence of the guitar.


Thank you so much! It makes me very happy that you enjoy it.



I tried to fix this and add a lot more treble. The amp model I was using,5150, barely reacted with tonal changes on treble or presence settings so I swapped it for a marshall type amp. I still don't know if I think the Ys tone sounds THAT MUCH like Yngwie's I feel like it's a lot rounder, almost like a mix between a violin and a saxophone. While I always think of Yngwie's tone as having a bit more bite and grit almost exactly like a violin/viola.

The video also helped a bit in finding some different angles to look at. It's still not done by a long way but here's how it sounds now and a video of me showing what I ended up with(so far).

This song is for a musicweekly think that I'm collaborating with another guy and the deadline is friday night, so I only have 2 days to figure out if I want to write more parts, if I want to do any more recording and then how much time I'll have mixing it.

Here's a status update. Feel free to come with more tips(except for the rhythm guitar on the second part which needs a redoing but I've been working for too long on it now and need to rest).

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 13 2019, 01:51 AM

Your output settings ( lower right ) look like they are still off . These really affect the tone

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 13 2019, 01:58 AM

Is that why it keeps jumping around instead of showing a steady signal?

Should it be like this?



At least this did something to the tone.. I think it sounds about 20% better from just that.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 13 2019, 02:33 AM

there is an on/of switch that is like a combination of both amps EQ section ,right next bass, trble , mid and presence control , lower right . Once you turn it on those control are real sensitve , it still looks like it is off . When you turn it in you will have to keep an eye on clipping

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 13 2019, 03:02 AM

Hm okay finally understood what you meant..... My brain is bad. Either it sounds better now or my ears are falling off from too much of the same sonic frequencies without a break....

This was what you meant...

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 13 2019, 03:22 AM

yep , not around speakers right now, but it sounds a little fuller off my labtop

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 13 2019, 03:57 AM

Added a tiny harmony and have no trouble phase trouble even with the same tone according to MultiScope.
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/full-thursday-early/s-5wa6F

Here's with some bass and some other rhythm guitars also in context with the rest of the song which is nowhere near finished... Thought I'd show you guys it first. While there's still a lot of work to be done I'm feeling like this one will turn out good when it's done.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 13 2019, 03:54 PM

sometimes there is some nastyness at about 500 , i would find it and put a narrow band to get rid . you might want to try a small amount eq boost right where the guitar stops fighting the bass ( maybe 130 ish

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 13 2019, 04:44 PM

Yeah gotta do some fine-eq. Want to get rid of some of that nasal quality. Where would that be located?

Feels like I have to cut a bit at around 1khz to get rid of that annoying nasal sound.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 14 2019, 12:52 AM

put a narrow band all the way to the top and move it back and forth till you find the noise you don't like and then cut it . I think you are in the right area , The patch I have open right now is around 630 , i am sure yours will vary

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 14 2019, 02:30 AM

Bingo! Great advice on this one. Being able to see and hear it at the same time can be a big help. Put a notch band in there and boost it then drag it back and forth til you find the area that is irritating and then you know where you need to cut.

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 14 2019, 04:49 AM

Thanks yeah I try to use that technique a bit but I find it unreliable. It's like the band gets distorted when you put that much gain on it and it sounds different then when in the tone. But I was able to find a couple of spots where I needed a big Q factor cut.

My actual favorite way to spot the places I don't like is to use Izotopes Equalizer to spot frequencies. It has a pretty wide band solo function so you can get to only hear the frequencies. The Q factor is like 10 though so it's not the most precise.

Here's another update, I think there are just some final touches and it'll be done
https://soundcloud.com/zaghara/maximum-power-thursday/s-sHCLK

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 14 2019, 09:55 AM

Yes I wouldn't say my tone is that close to Yngwie's round tone - which he had especially in the early days.

When you do have a sound that works in the mix - shaping the top end is a good problem though!

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 14 2019, 11:04 PM

The final result
https://soundcloud.com/user-149537842/an-adventure-begins

If I had more time I would add back in some more bass and try once more with the lead. But I'm okay with how it turned out. It's always a good experience to try to produce your own music. Taking breaks seem to be one of those things that I'm bad at but that would help me immensely to reset my ears and avoid fatigue.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 15 2019, 01:03 AM

beautiful , all the way thru , enjoyed every aspect of it

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 15 2019, 03:25 AM

<3 Thank you so much. Am so grateful for all the help as well crsn

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 15 2019, 05:07 AM

It's perfect IMHO. The guitar tone works great and the whole things works as a musical piece. Congrats!! Are you freelancing doing this if I may ask or are you sorta digging and helping out for experience and fun? it seems like fun work is why I ask. I'd like to get in to it myself
Todd

Posted by: klasaine Jun 15 2019, 06:45 AM

Great work all around. Tone, playing, composition. Bravo!

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 16 2019, 01:03 AM

Thanks Todd! So happy to hear that
This was just an in between projects thing which happens every week. If you're on twitter you can follow @MusicWeeklies and then you'll get weekly challenges. It's just a bunch of composers and producers doing it in their spare time. The quality is sometimes really high and it's fun to see what people come up with in just two weeks. Normally everyone just does their own thing, collabs seem rare. I highly recommend it though! It's like having a room full of composers sharing what they've done lately, makes you feel less alone about being that guy that sits around making music every day
I think you'd like this one from one of the other participants:
https://soundcloud.com/clement-panchout/facemeltingsolos-clement-panchout-destroying

Thank you so much Ken <3

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 16 2019, 05:07 AM

Thanks for the tip!! yeah!! WOW I love this track. It feels like one of my collabs with my friend from Syria. The entire thing sounds fun. Yeah, it would be great to feel part of a community who all like to create music no matter how strange. I'm gonna follow that on twitter. Look forward to seeing your future pieces!
Todd

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 17 2019, 08:19 AM

Love it!! The guitar tone is great as well - somehow reminds me of Tmac's "Maximum Security".

Keep inspiring us 👌

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 18 2019, 03:17 AM

That's high praise IMHO. Maximum Security is one of my fave albums ever.

Todd


[That'quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Jun 17 2019, 03:19 AM' post='769182']Love it!! The guitar tone is great as well - somehow reminds me of Tmac's "Maximum Security".

Keep inspiring us 👌
[/quote]

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 18 2019, 04:12 AM

Wow that's a cool piece! Where's the full track? Has it been released? Can't find it anywhere

Thank you so much my friend! I LOVE that album and Tony's tone is cool too <3