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Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 09:09 AM

"To play amazing melodies you need a God given natural talent and... yellow slippers."

If you believe in this stuff you might want to get outta here Because in this collab we’ll explore how it’s done, and no talent is needed at all! You do need time and devotion though.

In this collab we’ll use an amazing backing track by our own http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Javier-Aviles to build our melodies.

This collab is a perfect opportunity for you to understand how you can follow - or ‘outline’ - the chords to create amazing melodies.

You can either compose a solo/melody and use the short backing track: In this case you should strive for something melodic and minimise fast runs. I recommend you to record around 40 seconds solo. My feedback here will focus on technical, structural and musical improvements.

OR you can record an improvised take over the long backing track. My feedback will then be related to the overall flow of the improvisation and I will suggest any tricks I can think of to help you improve.


BASIC APPROACH

You can play the C minor pentatonic scale over the whole backing track and it will sound good. For more colors, play the C aeolian scale (my personal favorite!).

With this basic approach, you won’t consciously be hitting the perfect notes over the chord changes all the time, but there is a big chance you will do it accidentally.


http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator


FOLLOW THE CHORDS!

A more advanced way to solo over this backing track, is to not only play scales, but also to follow the chords. When you hear a note choice or melody that sounds too good to be true, then the guitarist is usually following the chords the way I describe below.

If we look at the two chords of this backing, we get:

Cm: contains the notes C, Eb and G

Fm: contains the notes F, Ab and C

We have two changes, let’s see exactly what you should do over these, to write super strong sounding melodies:

When the backing changes from Cm to Fm the interesting opportunities lie in:

Bend the Eb note to F. If you nail this over the chord change, people will think you’re God.
Bend the G note to Ab. Again, hallelujah!

When the backing changes from Fm to Cm:
Bend the F note to G.
Bend the C note to Eb.

These are the most obvious ones, but with some creativity there are plenty of other ways to go from chord note to chord note.

Bare in mind that as long as you bend into a strong note ( = chord note) you can actually do it from any note, even one that sounds horrible. It is a safe way to write strong material, and works for any genre in the world.

If you are not comfortable bending, you can play the notes regularly with your pick, or slide into them (etc etc)

To determine when the chord changes are happening, you should start counting the beats from the beginning of the backing track. The first change to Fm happens after aprox 6 seconds, when you have counted to 4, two times.

See the tab/pdf in http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Minor-Arpeggios-Exercise/ for more details.

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DOWNLOAD THE BACKING TRACKS:

 eye_opener_collab.mp3 ( 2.26MB ) : 758

 eye_opener_JAM.mp3 ( 10.15MB ) : 624


* Tempo is 78 bpm
* Deadline is April 8, 2015
* Although this is an audio collab, feel free to video record yourself as this will help you get better feedback.
* When you want to submit your final take, upload files in this topic (mp3 with at least 128 kbps quality, 16 bit wav files are welcome though). We need two files: 1. Your solo without the backing track 2. Your solo mixed with the backing track for reference.

Here you can see me jamming over the backing track:



------

RESLULT

>>>>> http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=41708 <<<<<<

Participants:

Bas Cuthach, Sensible Jones, Procyon, AKRich, Todd Simpson, GeneT95, Kristofer Dahl, Monica Gheorghevici, Bleez, MisterM, Phil66 and Pzalfa.


Participants:

Bas Cutach + Sensible Jones: Creating the atmosphere
Procyon: Solo over the created atmosphere
AK Rich Solo over GeneT95 and Bas Cuthach arrangements.
Todd Simpson Solo while GeneT95 continues adding rhythm.
Kristofer Dahl Solo, Gene continues rocking.
Monica solo over Kris’s rhythm delay auto pan arrangement and also some Massive synth addition. Bas Cuthach joins in the second half.
Bleez and MisterM guitar solos interact perfectly over the backing destroyed with industrial effect.
Phil66 and Pzalfa solos go nicely together while backing fade down and Bas Cuthach once again with his delay based rhythm.

Posted by: bleez Mar 18 2015, 09:48 AM

no talent + minor pentatonic? this is the collab for me

I really like the concept of this and the backing is very cool indeed. Im looking forward to giving it a go

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 10:15 AM

Excellent Bleez. I'm willing to bet my slippers that following the chords will take your playing a to a new level.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Mar 18 2015, 10:19 AM

Cool, I love this backing track but this time it will be hard for me to find a nice melodic line.
This is because I listened Kris improv for thousand times and I have in mind each note from his video Will be very hard to get out from my mind his ideas because I think what he made sounds perfect. But... I will try to play something

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 10:25 AM

Actually, that does not sound like a problem to me at all If you like my lines, why not let them re-appear in your take?

Hehe thanks a million for your kind words!

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Mar 18 2015, 10:59 AM

I worked a lot to be able to play one of your pattern and for that be sure that I will borrow some Kris:ish style You know, I think it's a good backing to use your idea of shred with swing (skipping one note in a 16th note triplet pattern). If I will keep a right picking (down, up, up and pull-of, hammer-on) I guess/hope nothing will sound bad

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 11:07 AM

hehe there you have it, that's definitely my favorite.

If you borrow stuff on a micro level, you can get away without anyone really noticing. However sometimes it can also be very good to borrow longer stuff just to get inspiration.

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 18 2015, 12:01 PM

As Bogdan advice me, i'll do a try with this.

Without any waranty.....

Laurent

Posted by: AdamB Mar 18 2015, 12:14 PM

I'll get involved in this one, too.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 03:28 PM

Excellent Laurent and Adam. Can't wait to hear what you come up with! =)

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 18 2015, 03:41 PM

Who could say no? It's my fave scale!! Count me in as well!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 18 2015, 04:05 PM

Excellent Todd, looking forward to your take!

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 18 2015, 05:56 PM

This is a very cool backing that offers unlimited opportunities to show off some phrasing and dynamics. Very nice choice for a collab I will be exploring with this one for sure. Thanks Javier and Kris!
PS: I can hear Carlos Santana in my head playing some beautiful lines over this backing.

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 20 2015, 06:11 PM

humm...

i cannot send my participation, todd is to far better..... i give up !

i have somthing to show, but it's ugly, full of false notes and crapy..... and my brand new webcam is blurry.... dammnnnn

i'm so shy...

Laurent

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 20 2015, 08:39 PM

I am really enjoying playing along with this backing but I am having trouble figuring out how and when to end it with the way the backing slowly fades out, and I am not sure how all the takes are going to connect. Any ideas?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 20 2015, 08:46 PM

Don't be so hard on yourself. With this thinking, there would only be one guitarist left in the world.

Fortunately playing guitar is not a competition, and what some people like others don't. And the good thing about GMC, is that we're all here to learn - so takes of any level are accepted!

Now give it a go - you can do it!



You could see it as a challenge to follow the dynamics of the backing with your guitar, which means you will have use the volume knob towards the end. Alternatively, end your solo before the fade out (or play over the long backing track).

Posted by: Doug Lane Mar 21 2015, 12:25 AM

I'm in, and this time I'm going regularly update my take. Here is my first attempt at this backing track. I took your advice from the last one for this take and made it a point to give more breath between phrases, and I repeated a couple rhythmic ideas to give certain spots more continuity. I made gradual adjustments to the tone knob and my picking dynamic throughout to give it a more mysterious and organic feel.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2015, 09:35 AM

Wow what a cool first take! Killer melodies and amazing tone!

I'd say you have a next to perfect foundation to build upon here. You can decide if you want to polish more on it, maybe by adding some kind of tension. Ie by testing some outside notes or trying to integrate a faster passage without compromising with the melodic content.

Or - you could use these ideas to practice improvisation over the long track. I have been doing this recently and it's a super effective way to translate musical ideas into stuff you can use flexibly for jamming purposes (if that makes sense).

The only thing I reacted on was at 00:16. Here you have waited through the entire intro (which is really smart btw - this way you let Javier convince the listener how good your take is). Then at 00:13 you start of melodically, and you match the expectation raised by the [silent] killer intro. However the phrase at 00:16 comes a bit early, giving you much less options to gradually build anticipation towards a climax. So you could let the last note of the first phrase hang for a while and maybe give it some twist at the end (vibrato/bend/slide etc).

I think that if you tried to build up more slowly, these ideas are probably enough to get you through the entire jam backing track.

Keep going, this sounds amazing!

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 21 2015, 11:51 AM

hi here

thsi is small contribution, a sort of preview...

dont ear the 2 first sec, i was playing for fun....



feel free to tell your advices

regards

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 21 2015, 06:32 PM

I'm in. This will be interesting, I keep thinking of the original exorcist film sound track (Tubular Bells) so I don't know what I'll come up with

I don't know if I'll be able to follow the chords but I'll have a go.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2015, 06:50 PM

Thanks Laurent, this is a very nice jam - well done!

It's clearly structured into 'call and response' and you have managed to avoid just 'going up and down' in scales - and instead you play phrases which is what this is all about!

You also play with dynamics - and we can clearly hear variations in picking strength, which makes it more enjoyable to follow (and gives it a vocal kinda charachter).

The only concise improvement I can think of is to try and include some pauses in there, so that you're not playing all the time.

Other than that - what you should do is to work on your overall musical expression. That's just my home-made fancy way of saying you should play over and over on this backing, to try to find even stronger musical phrases. When the collab is about to close, you should record another take where you try to merge all your favorite licks/ideas into a new improvisation.

Keep up the great work!



Exellent Phil, can't wait to hear what you come up with. Btw exorcist theme sounds scary (but cool!).

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 21 2015, 07:32 PM

Thankx a lot !!

i'll work on now, till the end !

Laurent

Posted by: bleez Mar 21 2015, 08:08 PM

This is what Im currently playing for it

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 21 2015, 08:38 PM

Ok, here's my first attempt. My favourite part is at 00:37. As usual, I don't have many licks so I end up noodling around

[attachment=41373:Eye_Open...21032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-21032015

Please advise.

Thank you. I really enjoy "making music" in these collabs.

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2015, 10:30 PM

Excellent!

Since this is all good music from start to end, there is no need to change/improve the ideas. But I have some execution related feedback.

When I hear your take I get the feeling we have a well rounded rock guitarist playing in a slightly uncomfortable style. Namely two things stick out:

Your timing is straight forward rock n roll:ish whereas your phrases are softer/jazzier. I think these exact ideas would benefit tremendously if you could play slightly behind the beat. If this feels tricky, then just try to play the last note of each phrase a little too late. That should give you a good starting point. If you do that for a while you will start to get a feel for when its appropriate to 'play behind'.

Vibrato: You actually don't always need to add vibrato, and sometimes it can be just as cool to leave it out. However because guitars by the their nature always have slight intonations problems, it is often required to add vibrato not hurt the listeners' ears. But here is a trick: Don't add vibrato immediately, wait aprox one second and then add it. Or even cooler, add it gradually (increase vibrato depth gradually). More versatility with your vibrato would add a lot of finesse to your take, and make it sound less rock n roll:ish.

I am anxious to see how this works out for you. Sometimes it can be surprisingly easy to master new styles if you are already comfortable with [at least] one.



Thanks Phil. Your approach here is excellent - you develop simple motives, gradually adding variations. This is very effective as you don't bombard the listener with ideas (this is very common guitarist problem). Also it's difficult/impossible to play longer solos while constantly coming up with new ideas, so developing a motif is a crucial skill for any guitarist wanting to learn improvising.

Having said this, your take would benefit from some kind of memorable melody. If you have trouble coming up with one, try borrowing one as a starting point.

My most important feedback for you this time, is however not related to your playing but rather to your sound which works to your disadvantage. The backing track has a lot of depth and it is cleverly done with time based effects (= reverb / delay).

Your sound is almost completely dry to my ears, and this makes it nearly impossible for you to play a lead which integrates well with the backing. I don't know what gear you are using, but I recommend you to spend some time experimenting with delay and reverb.

With reverb - find a room size/type which you like. Turn the reverb up to the point that you can hear it, and then back it off a little. Its easy to overdo the reverb settings.

Delay - this is my preferred effect. Lots of possibilities here - but you could test with an 8th note delay. If that doesn't make sense to you don't worry, just spend some time experimenting with presets and you will start to get a feel for what works.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 21 2015, 11:32 PM

Thank Kris,
I quite like it from 0:37-1.00. I really like the way the little lick at 0:37 coincides with the "clash" in the backing track, I'd like to keep that in. That just happened
The gear I'm using is just Amplitube with one of the custom shop amp settings. I have a Blackstar all valve head with an emulated output, do you think that would be better if I added delay? The head has reverb so I can use that.
Cheers Kris

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2015, 11:54 PM

I think easiest might be for you to experiment with delay/reverb in amplitube (assuming it has those effects).

Posted by: bleez Mar 22 2015, 12:10 AM

Thanks Kris, those are really good pointers. After reading your comments I totally agree with you and I see exactly what you are saying. I'll work on those areas you've highlighted for sure.
Im a little surprised that playing behind the beat isn't more natural for me seeing as Im such a big (early ) sabbath fan! I try to aspire to play in a bit of a 1970s hard rock / stoner kinda style so I totally need to get that behind the beat vibe down.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2015, 11:09 AM

Often we tend to rush things when we're not completely comfortable (anybody remember their driving lessons?!). So the more comfortable you get with this solo, the easier it will be for you.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 22 2015, 09:53 PM

Had a bit of a mess with tone. Tone is one of the hardest aspects for me, it's something you always seem to be chasing The playing is the same as I'm struggling to think of something. I'll have a go tomorrow. Are there any parts you like at all? If there is I can listen and build on them?

[attachment=41403:Eye_Open...22032015.wav]

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2015, 10:09 PM

YEAH!! Huge improvement already, well done!

I would say just have a little less of everything:

* Less delay repetitions (the effect parameter is usually called "feedback" )

* Lower the delay mix a little bit.

The general rule is to back off the effect so you barely can hear it. That's when the magic happens. This is also why it is often so hard to determine exactly what effects you favorite guitarists use.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 23 2015, 10:19 PM

Thanks Kris,

Ok another little tweak. Once I get the sound ok I'm hoping it will inspire me a little. My favourite section (playing wise) is from 00:37-1:00. What do you reckon?
Thanks for your help.

[attachment=41406:Eye_Open...23032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-23032015

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 23 2015, 11:24 PM

I think this take is pretty nice throughout! My favorite part is probably the bend at 00:31 which is neatly phrased, spot on and unpredictable. You have built the take gradually with dynamics and this kind of playing works very well in a band situation (hint hint ).

With the exception of the part starting at 00:44, you don't really take 'lead guitar space'. Instead your take works a bit like rhythm guitar, complementing the backing, and there is actually space for someone else to solo over your take.

This is cool and will work great for the final mix, as we'll be able to do just that. So it's up to you if you want to tweak your concept further or not.

If you do want to turn into a more dominating lead, I would suggest adding more sustained notes. And as mentioned before I would really like to hear you borrow a melody from somewhere just as inspiration/starting point.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 24 2015, 02:46 AM

EGAD!! FZALFA!! The whole point is to share There is no "better" or "worse" it's just about sharing what the music says to you. That's all So please do share more!

These collabs are what makes GMC so cool!

Your take video is very cool!!! I'd say your doing great!

Todd

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 24 2015, 09:37 PM

Ok, worked late, got in 15 minutes ago, was listening to Home by Satch on the way back. Came up with this.

[attachment=41412:Eye_Open...24032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-24032015

Critique please.

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 24 2015, 11:06 PM

Great Phil! Now we have a basis for something more melodic.

To give your take some action, I would like to see something different happen at 00:31. Perhaps bring back your first idea or come up with a new one.

The idea is to not play one theme only, and repeat it throughout the solo. But instead have several themes. Typically when doing this, we want to have the more laid back themes first and then gradually intensify. This way we take the listener to a climax.

"Intensifying" can mean playing more aggressively ( = hitting the strings harder, turn up the volume knob, add more vibrato etc ), and/or play a bit faster (= more notes), or play some tension notes etc. The idea is to take the listener from point A to point B (sorry for the cliché).

I think it's great you were able to adopt a different theme so quickly, we should be able to build a cool take together!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 26 2015, 11:03 PM

Todd here!! Here is a preview of my take. I"ll upload the untitled vid files and solo only files as well. I used my 8 string Cobra for this one and used all 8 strings for the solo. I took a cue from some earlier solos and did a sort of "call and response" approach. Enjoy!!!



SIGNAL CHAIN
*Strictly 7, 8 String Custom Cobra (Lundgren M8 Pickups)
*Avid 11 Rack Custom Patch (Based on the BOGNER amp)
 _Semi__Bogner_4a.tfx.zip ( 1.23K ) : 177


*LOGIC X (Still "the" DAW for Mac folks IMHO)

Posted by: GeneT95 Mar 27 2015, 12:35 AM

Working on a little rhythm with the Collab backing since I got a new guitar, a baritone made by Jericho Guitars in Texas. I got a spalted maple 27" Avenger. This is the first long scale guitar I've bought. The Avenger is pretty damn cool and well made. I might even get me a 7 or 8 string from them later. The price is great and the build quality/pickups are fantastic.

Anyway. I kept it a little louder than I'll probably do if I use it and add lead fills for the collav. Not sure how well it will work with lead fills. Still workin on that part.

https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/eyeopener

I tried video. I suck at recording yet. But one of these days I'll post my mug and sloppy hands.

Edit : Ah, the mix isn't too bad. I think soundcloud's compression dampens what I hear in FRFR. And the guitar is slightly Left of center to make room for leads on the 'slightly' right.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 27 2015, 10:14 AM

Thanks Todd- that's some killer shredding and impressive usage of 8 strings! Also I find your right hand control extremely inspirational.

We obviously have different musical preferences - so take my feedback with a pinch of salt and use whatever you feel might be beneficial to you (if anything). In order of relevance:

* construction wise: You give you everything from start. This is cool, but to me the backing track calls for a more laid back approach, especially with the soft intro. At 00:20 you already have a full blown counterpart orchestration. If I had written this I would have saved that intense part until the climax (usually somewhere at the end of the solo). Basically if I just listen to your guitar parts it sounds interesting (especially for guitarists), but if I listen to your take as a whole with the backing I feel there is a mismatch.

* Tone: I sense this tone is a bit more dynamic than what I am used to hearing form you, and personally I find this cool. Generally when dealing with hi-gain we want to be extremely careful with any effect that can introduce further compression. A good hi gain amp [sim] can give you higain with somewhat retained dynamics. But the more effects you add in the chain the more likely the signal gets squashed somewhere. EQ wise I get the impression you have started with a scooped sound but dialed out all the bass (which is a good move to fit the guitar in a mix) - however what remains is a thin and treblish tone, which is a pity since this kind of backing track provides lots of space for juicy midrange (as opposed to backing tracks with biting rhythm guitars).

Personally I'd like to see you go for a standard rock sound, ie a high gain marshall with a maximum of one booster in front of it with just average EQ settings including mid range (no scooping). This might obviously feel horrible to you, and you will need to give it weeks of playing. But after that magic can start to happen and your technique will start adapting to this new dynamic sound.

Awesome to have you in the collab!






Great - I like this concept a lot. What you did here is the most bullet proof way to improve:

By jamming - while staying within your range - over a musical tack such as this one, you will evolve in ways hard to describe in instructional terms. It is not hard to tell the difference between someone who has practiced phrasing, chops, changes (etc) broken down into instructional blocks - and someone who just spent time playing music all day.

So what you did here is pretty much the goal of these collabs, you had fun with your guitar over this backing and we can tell. You didn't care about doing anything fancy, just music! Keep going like this!

I don't really have any specific improvement suggestions, I would advise to keep jamming over this one as long as it feels fun to you. And then move on to another backing track. That's exactly how I do it myself.

Awesome to have you in!

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 27 2015, 12:10 PM

hi todd

it's ok for me, i share, i put my shy to hell ;p

nice take, original way to do

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 27 2015, 02:48 PM

a new production.....



rewards, beers, advices, insults.... welcome

Laurent

edit: it's crapy, i must do another one...... the volume gain is too low, i cannot hear all my notes...

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 27 2015, 07:23 PM

KRIS: Thanks very much for the detailed feedback You have a VERY good ear. You picked out exactly what happened on my EQ settings and your spot on. I was going for a bit more dialed back sound in terms of gain but of course my usual deeeeep scoop was still in effect. This makes things waaaaaaaaay to bassy when the 8th string comes in to play to I trimmed out the bass.
Sadly, this resulted in a tone that lacks bass and mid range punch. I'm going to go back see if I can get a better balance on the EQ. I've found that EQing the 8 string is most challenging.

Also, I hear what you are saying in terms of jumping in to quickly with the full on counterpoint bit. I was doing it pre-emptively as my solo usually gets chopped down to just a phrase or two in the final mix so I wanted to put in as much as I could. If I was arranging this for something that would be used in it's entirety I"d try to build it over time so that it worked as it's own composition as you suggested so you are spot on there as well I'll take another look at the arrangement to see if I can make it a bit more complimentary to the backing. As it stands, it's probably sticking out a bit much with the "chase" solo as arranged. I was going for one guitar chasing another just a few bars behind.

I"ll be back with another mix

Todd

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 27 2015, 11:05 PM

Thanks Laurent, just as with the last one there are cool musical ideas in here.

However - I do think your previous take was better. A wild guess would be that the actual "stage fright" you felt when hopping in to a collab for the first time helped you perform better.This is the exact same way it works for professional artists, when we are confronted with an audience, camera (etc) something happens and we push ourself to do the best we can.

So I think by simply redoing this one and giving your everything, we'll see a difference.

A more specific comment about the intro: Remember that the first 5 seconds are the most important ones. So even jazz guitarists (who rely strictly on improvisation) will prepare themselves with a couple of pre-written licks just to start the performance of as strong a possible. So I think you should do the same - try two write a starting melody to make sure you get a good start, after that you can jam away.

Finally, I would like you to do some vibrato research. Check out how your favorite players phrase their vibrato. How fast is it? How deep? How do they hold their hand when doing vibrato? Is it different depending on which string they are playing on etc.

Personally I would like to see you not always add vibrato, and try some different kinds of vibratos. If you have played a soft line, then do a soft vibrato - and if you have played a fast line, do an aggressive (more audible) vibrato.

Keep up the good work!

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 27 2015, 11:21 PM

hi

i trail this vibrato's probleme since i play (2y) it' really hard for me to overide the need to do it

my actual trouble with this projet is about i am out idea, so i force myself to do, but no way..... till the 4th i'll certainely have a flash

keep on workin on, and on some other project like Europa alone and cantaloup island, with a friend who play it perfectly.....make me cry !!

regards

Laurent

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 28 2015, 06:34 AM

Per KRIS spiff suggestions, I built a patch using a JCM 800 Marshall and a single boost (Tube Screamer). It does sound better with the backing. Thanks for the tip! Also, I trimmed down the arrangement to a single guitar. Here goes!

*P.S. This one is available to watch in full HD 1080p


Here is the link to download the patch.
http://bitly.com/1Bv9yCh


*TAKE WITH BACKING
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2761041/EyeOpenerCollab/ToddWithBacking.aif

*TAKE WITHOUT BACKING
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2761041/EyeOpenerCollab/ToddWithoutBacking.aif

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 28 2015, 07:42 AM

Hey guys, I thought I would share what I have going on for my take currently. There are some mistakes here and there and I feel like part of it is rushed a bit. Also I plan on making a couple slight changes in note choice. It is still a work in progress and I plan on getting it down to where I can play it in a bit of a more relaxed way which I think is key in getting it to sound the best.
Also, I think I may try to do an improvised take with the long version of the backing as well that will most likely result in a bit of a different feel, probably a bit more bluesy sounding. Anyway, let me know what you think!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/eye-opener-collab-10

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 28 2015, 09:12 AM

NICE !!!!!!

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 28 2015, 02:32 PM

a new shoot.....

false start for the first mesure, did i continue in this way for the melody ?



Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 28 2015, 10:26 PM

Thanks Todd. Huge sound improvement indeed, well done!

Now there is just one thing preventing me from digging the music, and that is the level of your lead. It feels much louder than the backing - and your lines don't get any juice from Javier's amazing backing. I sense your ideas are cool, but it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on them before they are 'in line' with the music. Also, this is the ultimate test of your sound patch, can it cut through without mixing it above all other instruments? ( I think it will work).



Excellent AK!

You know I like your solo construction skills, and this one is no exception. Very nice melodies throughout, and fresh licks/phrasing. And brilliant move to follow the backing melody at 00:59 - simple but super effective!

Here I have tried to list in order of priority what I think will raise your take to a new level:

* tone: Though you have done a very good job integrating your lead with the mix, your guitar tone sounds a bit digital, for lack of a better word. It's a bit 'treblish' and lacking warmth and dynamics. Nowadays there are so many good amp plugins (many which are free/low cost) so no real excuses for not addressing this. Plus I know you can recognize a cool tone when you hear it, so just tweak away.

* The very first bends don't feel that strong to me. I am actually not sure why, but maybe this is what you were referring to when you said you want to further tweak note choice? You did a very good job building anticipation by not playing throughout the whole intro, but that places huge focus on the first notes.

* 00:40 the faster passage here is very tasteful, and you almost pull it off. However the ending note is not convincing. Just as with the intro - if you only have one fast passage that one will stick out, mistakes there will somehow be more apparent.

Go AK!! You have got the ideas, you 'just' need to polish your tone and technique!



Excellent Laurent, now I am seeing improvement.

Musical ideas are still good, but now I sense much more conviction/devotion in your take. Basically you played it more like you 'meant it', this time.

As for improvements I would like you to focus one single thing, even though there are various tiny stuff here and there to comment on - focusing on this one thing will raise your entire take to a new level. I am speaking about:

Timing:

There is nothing wrong with your timing, but you are almost constantly playing slightly before the beat.

This is a very common thing to do, especially when we are focusing on getting everything right. I do it all the time and I have to struggle very hard to avoid it.

Since it's a matter of milliseconds here and there, it can be a little hard to address consciously. So what i do instead is to try to 'feel' laid back when playing. And for some passages I try to really play noticeably behind the beat (it could be cool to do with the triplets at 00:42, for example).

I realize I might confuse you now. Because I first asked you to play it like you mean it, and now I am asking you to be laid back..! But music is just that: it should convey a certain kind of mood by playing aggressively like you mean it, and another mood which is more relaxed. When you can switch back and forth between those, the listener will get a wow feeling - even though most could impossibly describe why they liked what they heard.

It's like a tension and release thing, but with timing. Does it make any sense at all?

I would advise to just keep jamming and try to think of these things, you are definitely going in the right direction!

Posted by: fzalfa Mar 29 2015, 12:10 AM

hi

thanks for listening

ok i must "play" with timing, tomorow i'll see my "teacher" and talk him about that, he certainely can help me.

Laurent

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 29 2015, 02:59 AM

Hey Kris, thanks for the encouraging words and great feedback!
It is interesting that you mention following the backing melody in the final moments. The ideas I had for that section in my first bunch of idea takes just seemed to clash with that melody, so I decided that working something out to compliment it would sounds much better. This is one part that I think could be just a little tighter for a final take.
And yes, I am also not satisfied with the way I played the opening lines in my take. I have some other takes where I think it sounds better but then there are always other parts that didn't sound good in those takes. Anyway I think that once I have the construction finalized, I can start to play it the same way every time and get it all to sound decent for a final take.
The same thing kind of goes for the short fast legato lines you mentioned.

As far as the tone goes. In the short term, it is just something I will have to deal with. I am running a line out from a Vox VT 120+ direct to my soundcard on my PC ,and I can tell you that if it were mic'd instead, it would sound at least 10 times better. So as soon as I can get my hands on a decent interface and start to mic my amp I think you will notice a big improvement in my tone.
I have tried some VST's in the past but I have never had much luck with them. I first tried Guitar Rig and found it to be extremely noisy. I also have some other plugins in my DAW. Le Pou and a few others but the other issue I have with using them is the very slight delay I get or the response time from when I hit a note and when I hear it. This is something I have found to be very annoying, especially when going back and forth from playing with plugins to playing thru a real amp.
So I don't really want to spend alot of time trying to dial in a plugin when I could be refining my take. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks again man!

PS: Oh yeah! I have a question for you before I forget. When I render my final guitar only take. Should I have it fade out like I do for my take with the backing , or not fade out and let whoever is going to do the final mixdown take care of that if needed?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 29 2015, 11:02 PM

No need to do the fade out yourself, as we might not even place your take at the end, for the final mix!

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 30 2015, 05:34 AM

Ok cool , that's kind of what I was thinking. Thanks Kris.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 31 2015, 05:20 AM

KRIS: This is my final take so I''m leaving it to you to for the final Mix. I left it loud in the preview just to so folks could hear the lead which I used in last weekends Vid Chat Lesson. The good news is that the patch seems to work well at various volumes. I trust your ears so I"m sure you find the right level on the final mix. I"ll submit the guitar only track.

Posted by: Bas Cuthach Mar 31 2015, 05:48 PM

This is not final, I have many ideas and always
play it different each time, this is a simple concept,
do you like the idea?





This is what happens when i use a daw lol

https://soundcloud.com/bascuthach/eye-opener-collab-with-backing

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 31 2015, 09:50 PM

Awesome to see a take from you Bas!

I like how you caught the dynamics of the backing, and use a clean sound for the intro. Also I think there is a musical thread throughout your take, which is great. In other words you did not let a bunch of [speed] licks be the musical guideline.

There is one single thing you should prioritize improving:

Tone
This is by far the biggest issue. To be specific it's the distortion that is extremely fizzy, with too much treble. To simplify things you could turn down treble and increase midrange. Alternatively just tweak around or browse presets until you find something that sounds softer/smoother.

It's worth noting though, that it sounds a bit better at 1:06 . Not sure if you used a different patch or if the softer pick touch did it.

The reason I am nagging about this, is because your take would sound much more musical with a better tone, without you even need to change a single note!

If you can first address this problem we can start analyzing your playing. However you have some cool ideas there, so like i said improving tone is the absolute most important thing for you to do now. Fingers crossed for you!

Posted by: Bas Cuthach Mar 31 2015, 11:42 PM

but i like my distortion lol ok some minor changes, ya getting that sweet tone is something i have trouble with

 eye_opener_collab_take_2.mp3 ( 1.13MB ) : 153


with out backing

 eye_opener_collab_w_o_backing.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) : 151

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 1 2015, 11:39 AM

You know guys that I always begin by thanking to my amazing instructor Darek because if I do something good it's just because he is a damn brilliant instructor

Because all these collabs are a great workout for me, for this improv I had two requests from Darek.
1- to add more gain in tone
2- to use the volume knob. So, for the first half the guitar volume knob it's roll out around the middle position, to catch a warm sound for the soft notes. Then the volume knob it's rolled at a loud position.
Darek knew from the start that this changing of tone will obligate me to think and play in other way (more gain requires a totally different playing to not lose the dynamics). That's why I love my instructor because he always has prepared traps for me

Kris: My first approach for this collab had included your shred swing pattern but I failed the take because I chose a wrong place to add that lick. In my stupid mind was a good idea to start in that way The funny thing is that inside me I had the feeling that something is wrong and Darek will put me to make another take. So.....he did it (hahaha... he made this for 3 times) Maybe next time I will find the perfect place to use your lick.
Now you will listen my fourth approach. It’s totally different from any point of view: another style, tone, playing, dynamics and composing approach (tension built from the first note until the last note). I really killed my guitar, mind and fingers

 The_eye_opening_backing___guitar.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) : 200

 Guitar_Only.mp3 ( 1.15MB ) : 151

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 1 2015, 09:29 PM

hi here

a brand new recording.



let me know...

thankx

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 1 2015, 10:25 PM

Thanks Bas - and sorry I missed the soundcloud file from your previous post.

I do think tone is a little better here. However I get the feeling this might be a sound you have dialed in for metal - and it might work much better in that genre ( because more treble is needed to cut through). However for this kind of soft backing it is overkill to have loads of distortion and treble, you can cut through with a much smoother tone.

From a solo construction perspective I think your take is pretty cool. I like the intro which gives electronic vibes. And although you do have a chaos of different lines - I somehow get impression it is a structured chaos and I can hear the music in there and it builds up very nicely. You manage to work yourself to a climax thanks to the repeated line starting at 00:35 - this is not easy to do considering you started of at full throttle. This is a pretty cool and original take.

But again - with a softer tone you would do these musical ideas so much more justice. The music is cool and I would like to listen to it several times but it is just too tiring for my ears.

Fingers crossed you can tweak yourself to a better tone! If you need help, I suggest starting a new topic and tell us what you got in terms of gear and we can hep you make the most out of it. I am anxious to hear what you will accomplish with a better tone!




Hehe awesome to hear the collab is making you work hard - four different takes is excellent practice!

And yes I agree this backing might not be optimal for that shred swing thing. I guess the ultimate evidence of that is that I did not use it in my improv (I think) - and I tend to completely overdo that one as soon as I get the chance!

This one felt more like and improv compared to what I have heard from you before - so big kudos for that. And as an improv, I can not say much more than bravo - please just record a longer version!

If we treat this one more as a constructed take there is some stuff here and there to comment on:

0:14 - this bend is a little off. I get the feeling you reach the target note a little late and pitch is a little off. Same comment for 00:53-00:54

00:38 - the faster note in here feels off timing wise. A bit like unintentional swing. Same comment at 00:44

0:48 - something makes me feel this legato lick needs more practice. I think it might be that you have pretty dynamic sound (which is awesome btw) - and there is a big volume different between hammered and picked notes. You should be able to solve this quite easily by making sure your pick strikes are incredibly soft (while you try to get more power from left hand - the latter is not as easy though).

Other than this - your tone is killer and so is your melodic development - well done!







YES!!!! MAN this is an improvement, it's subtle oh so subtle but you certainly get it.

In this take you played slightly behind the beat when playing softly and on the beat (or slightly before) when playing loud. Splendid!

You let the phrases dictate the mood and timing, and to me this is what "playing with feeling" is about. It is certainly possible to break down "feel" into elements that can be practiced.

Here is a quick tip to try and take your improv to yet a new level. Keeping all the things we have said so far in mind, try to impose some limitations on yourself.

What I mean by this is that throughout your improv, try to have one section where you only play double stops, one section where you only play horizontally on one single string, another section were you only do string skipping (so don't play on two adjacent strings) etc etc I am sure you can think of your own as well.

The idea is simply to push yourself into new sorts of ideas (through these limitations), and thereby make your take even more versatile and interesting. Go go go go go go go go go!!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 1 2015, 10:36 PM

hi Kristofer

you have a good idea about the limitation, for the double stop , i have something in my head...

but now it's time to sleep, i'll try tomorow !

thankx god, i have a wounded knee, so i must stay at home for months..... so i have time to progress

bless are the doctors

Laurent

Posted by: Bas Cuthach Apr 2 2015, 04:24 AM

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 2 2015, 06:27 AM

Kris: Thank you from my heart for your kind words and feedback I'm very happy you like my improv and this new tone (which took me 3 hours full of experiments to make it ). I will think to make a longer version but not so soon because I want to learn 2-3 new tasty things to add.

For legato lick definitely I need very much practice. The purpose was to give a triplet feel and I put accents but I guess I pushed those accented notes much stronger than it should be. The accents are a must for this lick but I will try to make them much softer. To be honest at this moment it's very hard to control this tone. It's the first time when I play on high gain. I need more than 5 days of practice for this because I was used with a little amount of gain and then my left hand use more power. On this tone if I touch like usual sounds horrible. When I start to work for this collab I didn't believe that I will be able to make my take. I was disappointed and very sad until I heard the final result.

I will work for the issues that you told me and I will make a new recording these days. Thank you again for everything and mostly for your detailed feedback (I really love this)

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 2 2015, 07:46 AM

Monica, you rocks !!!

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 2 2015, 07:48 AM

Bas - start a new topic so others who aren't following this discussion can help out as well. Also, let us know the names of the software/pedals you use.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 2 2015, 02:41 PM

Thank you so much Laurent, I'm glad you like it

Posted by: MisterM Apr 2 2015, 05:46 PM

Hi all

deadline 8/04/2015
I can still join you ?

Posted by: Bas Cuthach Apr 2 2015, 05:49 PM

ok, here is my take

 eye_opener_2_with_backing.mp3 ( 1.13MB ) : 145


with out backing

 eye_opener_2_with_out_backing.mp3 ( 1.09MB ) : 126

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Apr 2 2015, 07:02 PM

Go for it MisterM!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 2 2015, 08:06 PM

Welcome MisterM, my french friend

we are both user of the same french guitar's board a nice guy !

Laurent

Posted by: MisterM Apr 2 2015, 08:13 PM

Hi Laurent

Tomorrow I will try to give the best, for now here's what happens

With Backing track : http://ahp.li/9ecd1d5eb39363516e1c.mp3

Without Backintrack : http://ahp.li/84e0eb8695882f495599.mp3

Posted by: Procyon Apr 2 2015, 08:24 PM

After a really hard week I finally found some time for this... there is nothing better you can do but grab your guitar and play to unwind from work. This backing is amazing!!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 2 2015, 08:36 PM

nice for both !!

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 2 2015, 09:04 PM

Ok I predict you will truly scare us then, because this is already very good IMO. Phrases are musical with call and response vibe, and tone is awesome - it actually gives me John Scofield vibes.

Improvement wise: you play intensely in the beginning without many pauses. Instead you have more breathing room/pauses towards the end.

I would do it the other way around instead, in order to build climax. Be sparse in the beginning and then give your everything at the end. If you have many pauses where the listener expects a climax - there is a risk people will think you ran out of ideas!

Awesome to have you in!



I'd be surprised if there weren't some really neat ideas in this take - you have blown me away in all previous collabs.

However this time around your sound eats up the backing track. I think the delay/rev/chorus (?) effects might be pretty cool - but they are mixed too loud and there might also be some low end issues going on (maybe coming from the chorus effect). See if you can put a high pass filter (EQ away the bass frequencies) on just the effects.

In the last collabs you have a really cool tone so I think you'll be able to solve this. Your lines are great, there is no need to hide them in effects! Fingers crossed!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 2 2015, 09:18 PM

it's me again

a new version, don"t worry about th esound, my loopback record vol was to high but the guitar sound records id ok really

lower your volum before play, it certainly clip !



Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 2 2015, 09:27 PM

Cool - to me this is still quite an original take. And I like the idea behind it - it's like you are doing electronic/sequenced phrasing with call and response.

However for this start appealing to people, you need to keep working on your sound (it no longer hurts ears though, so it's definitely better). The backing track , and the type of lines you play, call for some subtle but cool delay. And the clean sound would need a slight breakup / overdrive. Cheaper analog gear can't really do this well, but luckily there is free software that does it (ie Poulin plugin).

Even more important is to work on your technique. With this solo structure you are teaching the listener to expect a kind of phrasing where you repeat a sequence several times before answering it. All fine up 'till this point, and like I said this concept feels fresh to my ears. However when you get problems repeating the sequence in a convincing way (starting at 00:32) it gets very obvious to the listener (because you did it well in the beginning).

So to really make this take shine you would practice the scale runs some more. Also - check your tuning / intonation as some notes feel a little off to me.

Keep going, it will be very interesting to see where you can take this!



This version is also good, I liked the slightly more adventurous note choice. I terms of dynamics, I probably prefered your previous version.

Also, I think a big thing would be for you to work on your vibrato. Your playing would benefit a lot from a slower and deeper vibrato, that's coming from the whole arm - not just the fingers.

Keep going!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 2 2015, 09:55 PM

another take...



edit: don"t know why i have pushed this one here

re edit: i know, when i was payin this on, a good idea come to me
laurent

Posted by: Procyon Apr 3 2015, 01:46 PM

Thank you, Kris! I thought that you would write something like this - and I completely agree. I wanted to try something different - especially add more sustain - and ended up with this strange flanger-effect that did not really satisfy me - but I just had no time to do more experiments on the tone and finally wanted to play... it's quite difficult (and sometimes annoying) for met to get the tone I want... but I will try to improve on this.

Posted by: MisterM Apr 3 2015, 02:44 PM

Thank you Kristofer

I lost the files I can not give one guitar ...
I've had enough for today , I will try tomorrow video
It's not very good, i' m not in the beat


http://ahp.li/ef045b6fecfcde1e154b.mp3

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 3 2015, 04:04 PM

Nice - this is probably my favorite from you so far. In this one I think there are more well defined phrases/melodies - compared to the previous ones which felt a bit more scalar (ie playing scales up and down).

I think you should just keep jamming, thinking about all the things discussed in this thread. If you feel you want to change the direction to of your jam more dramatically, try to borrow a few licks from your favorite lessons and include them in your jam.



Awesome! I could listen to this all day long, lots of tasty and clever phrases in here. I think you should record over the long backing track - it would be really cool to hear you jam away and I might be able to give you more improvement suggestions.

I haven't really got any improvement suggestions for this take, you can of change the direction of the solo and throw in some slightly more aggressive lines towards the end - maybe like a 'bendy' melody high up on the neck. But if it ain't broken - don't fix it!

What gear do yo use? Your tone is killer!

Posted by: MisterM Apr 3 2015, 04:18 PM

Kristofer thank you

I am disappointed , I have ideas that I can not do what I want.
The track is short and I need to learn to manage it.
I'll try again tomorrow on the Long BT, but the video will be for Sunday.

My gear is :

Guitar : Fender Stratocaster Mexican " Lone Star"
Sound card : " Edirol FA- 66"
I use Cubase and Guitar Rig

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 3 2015, 06:29 PM

yeah !! we share the same gear, as the FA-66 from roland and GR 5, i use a ART lamp preamp and some other guitars

Laurent

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 4 2015, 10:58 PM

Here is another look at my take with a few slight changes made, mainly in the opening phrase. It is not played exactly as I would have liked and has a few minor mistakes, basically just in the way I played it. There is an accidental pinch harmonic at about 25 seconds and the short line at about 47 seconds I didn't quite play how I wanted. I think I can still play it a little better if I can find some more time to record before the deadline but if not , this will have to be my final take.

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/eye-opener-collab-20

Posted by: MisterM Apr 5 2015, 07:58 AM

Hi Ak Rich

Very Nice, i Like it !

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 5 2015, 09:21 AM

Thank you MisterM!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 5 2015, 09:24 AM

yes MM is right, it's pretty nice

Laurent

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 5 2015, 09:28 AM

Ahh! Thanks to you as well Laurent!
I like your improv style you have been showing us here. Some really nice off the cuff phrasing!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 5 2015, 09:52 AM

thankx a lot

i'm already searching about the right one, but i'm depleted, this morning, i cannot do something without false notes.... awfull

seem to be stuck

i have done these yesterday if i'm right, may a miracle can occure ! who knows ?





Laurent

Posted by: MisterM Apr 5 2015, 04:45 PM

Hi all

Nice Laurent, keep on rock my french friend

My last Take, I tried to play with Jam BT 5 mn, it's too long for me.
I preferred to keep my concentration in order to give better licks.



http://ahp.li/7b371741dad3ef7a571e.mp3

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 5 2015, 09:19 PM

Thanks, I think you managed to improve both of the places I spotted (intro and 00:40). Both of these could still be played with further conviction - but it's obvious you are going in the right direction by yourself, and this basically means you just need lots of more playing time and you will you will bump up your over all level.



Hi Laurent, great!

I preferred Nr1, this one feels like you. And I think you keep improving with every new every take, making them more musical every time. Well done!

Nr2 felt more like a practice session where you tried to get adventurous with new licks. This is exactly how you should practice, however when recording something for a real-life musical context (which our collabs are - and this is the whole purpose with them) then you should go for whatever makes you feel comfortable. Because when you feel comfortable, that's when you relax and therefore play with much better timing (etc etc).



Beautiful! As mentioned before you use the pauses really well. Someone said the music happens in the pauses, and you illustrate so tastefully.

Also well done choosing the right moment to apply more dynamics and reach out for the higher notes.

Excellent!



I am amazed every day what tones software now can deliver, very cool!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 5 2015, 10:16 PM

yes, software modelisation is very advanced, mathematics models are accurates, processor are powerfull since several years, so let's go.
i use GR5 too with the same FA66 firewire as MisterM, i garantee very low latency and we can play as with real stuff.

and it take no room....

Laurent

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 5 2015, 11:03 PM

Kris: I finished my take and I tried to keep a good timing. I made a vid because I want to post this on my YT channel and FB. I don't know why but it's the first time when I'm very attached about an improv.

You had right about the tone and because it's a dynamic one, even if I pick more than softly will be a volume difference between picked notes, hammered and fingered notes. I made millions of experiments and every tiny touch (and trust me I really can pick very softly) it's too loud heard. I must make a compromise and I will let at this moment the tone without technical changes because was my homework for this collab.

With one single thing I wasn't agree with you and I really hope you will not mind (about that unintentional swing from 00:38). My purpose was to be a little after beat. If I make this right on the beat will change the idea over the lick conception and I will be forced to add one or two extra notes. Maybe it's not a wise timing chose but I like in this way and you know that I always say when I have a different opinion. Please forgive me if this it's a mistake. I promise I will "wash my sins" in a next collab
Big thank you for that 0:44, now with that faster bend release sounds good and I love it



 Backing__Guitar.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) : 119

 Only_Guitar.mp3 ( 1.09MB ) : 105

Posted by: MisterM Apr 6 2015, 06:09 AM

Thank you Kristofer

Your comment makes me proud of my work.
I liked to play longer on the jam track but it's too much work.

Thank you for your advice and dynamism you give to GMC.




Hi Monica

Good job

Posted by: Nick6373 Apr 6 2015, 09:18 AM

Hey guys, I was wondering if I could have some advice on what I have for the first half of the collab before I go on to the second?
https://soundcloud.com/nick-peacock-7/eye-opener-collab-idea-1
Everything after about 30 seconds is just backing track.
Thanks!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 6 2015, 10:08 PM

Great Monica, you managed to improve a take which was already cool to start with. Over-all I could hear you play with much more conviction in this take. Well done and great video as well!



Awesome to have you in Nick!

I think it is fresh to hear you play some real "out" notes - the most noticeable at 00:26. This can (and will) work - but - it increases the demand for a powerful resolution. In other words: what comes after something weird should be super strong, in order for that weird part not to be perceived as a mistake.

So in your case I would really want a powerful melody or some strong notes to come after 00:26 . If you manage to pull this off you will have a very fresh and original take.

Other than this - I perceived you tone as a bit over distorted for this kind of backing track. So maybe listen to the other takes, see which ones you like, and then try to dial in something a bit more smooth and dynamic.

Keep going, I am looking forward to hear what you come up with!

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 7 2015, 07:35 AM

Thank you so much I also like your approach because it's beautiful and very melodic.


I listened all of the takes and I really love what I heard. Every take has a different approach which gives a different color over the backing. I hardly wait to hear the final mix


Your feedback made my take to shine and I'm more than grateful for this. I just followed your advices and I had more time to become safe and relaxed in playing. Thank you from my heart for all your help You are awesome!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 7 2015, 08:40 AM

Ok, keep working on the shorter ones and eventually a longer jam will "fall into place". I am very much looking forward o following your progress!

---

Any more takes? The deadline is approaching!

Posted by: MisterM Apr 7 2015, 12:00 PM

Thank you Monica




Thank you Kristofer

For me this is the last take .
I have not the time to begin another . Wait to see the final mix....

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 7 2015, 03:13 PM

for me also, tell me what take you want with guitar only, i'll send it to you

maybe the 1st of the last batch ?

tell me

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 7 2015, 09:13 PM

Yes, that one is probably my favorite!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 03:41 PM

Hi everyone
this is my take... it was lost with with a lots od 'clones'....

[attachment=41556:GMC_eyes...lfa_take.wav]

take care of it Kris !

we (MisterM and me) really don"t know what you'll do with theses.....

regards

Laurent

Posted by: Procyon Apr 8 2015, 06:37 PM

I spent about 500 years trying to create that special tone I was thinking of - unfortunately I was not successful. Things don't always go well. However - here are my takes.

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 8 2015, 08:02 PM

Ok, sorry but time was limited and my creativity on this one was blocked but here are both parts.

[attachment=41560:Eye_Open...lab_FULL.wav]

[attachment=41561:Eye_Open...lab_SOLO.wav]

Thanks again for this gentlemen, I really enjoy these even though I haven't had much time with this one.

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 8 2015, 10:24 PM

Well this was different beast, I really like your tone and playing here! Beautiful with lots of creative ideas.

Improvement wise the accuracy of the bend at 00:51 could be better, but all in all this felt excellent to me.

What tone where you looking for? Maybe something that 'squashes' a little more with the pick attack? Anyway if i were you I'd be happy with this tone.

Btw what guitar did you use?



Excellent Phil, this is probably the most musical one I have heard from you so far. And in here I never got the impression you ran out of ideas. Definite progress!

As always 'making progress' also means priorities change, and you need to start thinking about other areas to improve. If you had send me this take in the beginning of the collab, I would have commented on:

* timing. This is this biggest thing, and it is something I keep nagging about. To get good timing, you need to know the solo so well you can close your eyes and play it (almost) flawlessly. When you can do this, you should start to consciously relax your whole body a little extra, and try to play a little 'after' the beat, as this is where the sweet lies spot lies.

This might sound like hocus-pokus, but with great timing a simple scale played up and down (without any musical tricks) can sound amazing. I think this is one of the most important 'pro secrets' that often gets overlooked because it's such a subtle thing. But if you consider it for every note played, it is definitely not subtle.

* Tone: Your tone is slightly harsh for this kind of backing, you might want to try dialing in something a bit softer.

Extremely well done Phil, I feel very proud of you

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 8 2015, 10:46 PM

I've uploaded AIFF versions of my finals to dropbox and linked them in my original post Can't wait!

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=54081&view=findpost&p=708776

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 9 2015, 07:18 AM

Thank you Kris,

I can try to dial in a softer tone tonight if that will fit in with your plans. I know there's a deadline of yesterday but maybe for tone alterations?

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Procyon Apr 9 2015, 07:56 AM

Thanks a lot, Kris! I agree with you: this bend is a bit out of control - but since I put so much effort in my tone-experiments I thought it wouldn't matter anyway, I was a bit frustrated. But - when I listened to my take today the tone doesn't really seem to be that bad!
But I definitely wanted what you mentioned: A bit more "squash" and more brilliance - but it always turned out too aggressive. Most of the time I play distorted tones so this was a real challenge for me.

I used my Parker Fly Deluxe for this take.

Posted by: bleez Apr 9 2015, 08:32 AM

here's my files -
with backing:
[attachment=41570:eye_full.mp3]
guitar only:
[attachment=41571:eye_guitar.wav]
sorry Kris, I couldn't get a behind the beat version. I did try but just could not seem to find the groove at all. I even tried leaving it for a few days and attacking it fresh last night but I still couldnt nail it.
Im not really 100% with my take tbh, its a bit meandering but hey, what ya gonna do

Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 9 2015, 02:38 PM

Here are my files. It's the best I could do with a fractured index finger on my fretting hand!! It's also the first time I've played in over two weeks because of it!!!
https://soundcloud.com/neilwaller/eye-opener-wbt
https://soundcloud.com/neilwaller/eye-opener-nbt

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 9 2015, 05:42 PM

Hey Kris, Things are starting to get pretty busy for me around here with work so I was unable to set aside some time to further work on my take. I wanted to record it at the beginning of the long version of the backing and then improvise a bit over some of the rest of it but it just wasn't in the cards. I can't wait to see how this one turns out with all the different interpretations and flavors that everyone contributed. Thanks for the backing and the opportunity to take part in another awesome collab! Here are my files.

[attachment=41575:eye_open...llab_2.0.mp3]

[attachment=41576:eye_open...b_2.0_NB.mp3]

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 9 2015, 07:29 PM

Ok, I know it's past the deadline but here are a couple more with tonal differences. I prefer the #3 ones. Use them if you want to

[attachment=41577:Eye_Opener_2_FULL.wav]
[attachment=41578:Eye_Opener_2_SOLO.wav]

[attachment=41579:Eye_Opener_3_FULL.wav]
[attachment=41580:Eye_Opener_3_SOLO.wav]

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 9 2015, 08:55 PM

Loving that Rich!! Very Santana-esque!!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 9 2015, 10:01 PM

Thanks Bleez

No worries, the intention with my feedback is never really for people to perfect their timing in two weeks - but rather become aware that there are improvements to be made. So I think that just by trying to achieve it actively for a couple of weeks will give you the awareness you need to get control of it. This will require more time, because if it was easy everyone would be doing it.

But I can tell you I am really looking forward to hear how your playing will evolve the coming collabs!



Thanks Jones!

I think the ideas are good as usual, especially when considering the circumstances!

With a different tone, I think this one would have been on another level. Your sound here seems more adapted to cut through a rock backing, and has lots of treble. But with this backing, there is plenty of space for warm and juicy midrange.

With a bit of EQ:ing (and magic plugins!)we should be able to make it work in the final mix though - its awesome to have you in.



Thanks for the files AK - and once again I think this is a neatly constructed solo!



Tanks Phil, I think both are better. But I also prefer #3 - I think the sustain coming from the distortion is needed for these types of lines.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 10 2015, 05:47 AM

I posted the links to my files in the original post I'd made with the updated solo. Just want to make sure you found them, as I didn't see a response in your post

my AIF files are 40 MEGABYTES in total so I thought I'd skip trying to upload them here in the forum

Todd

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 10 2015, 09:08 AM

Got it, thanks Todd!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 10 2015, 09:52 AM

Cool! Looking forward to the final! I bumped up the level of the backing in the "with backing versin" per your comments

Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 10 2015, 04:24 PM

Thanks Kris!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 10 2015, 04:28 PM

and now, kris, what's next ?

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 10 2015, 07:48 PM

Hehe what would you want to see next Laurent?

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 10 2015, 09:08 PM

i like to see the results of our hard job

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 10 2015, 11:04 PM

Well I already have but a final mix is coming as well!

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 10 2015, 11:08 PM

Laurant,
We now have to wait for the masters to do their magic with the mix

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 11 2015, 12:20 AM

Hello guys! I'm now collecting files and I need the takes in audio file (mp3 wav) to be able to use them for the final mix.

Fzalfa: I need your "only guitar" take.

Nick6373: Are you participating on this one? I'd need your takes.

MisterM: Could you please share your guitarwithbacking take in audio file?

GeneT95: In order to use some of your ideas I would need your takes (only guitar + mix)

Doug lane: I'd need your takes.


Thanks!!

Posted by: MisterM Apr 11 2015, 07:34 AM

Hi Gab,

http://ahp.li/6d7329fd15b7bf094d24.mp3

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 11 2015, 08:19 AM

hi Gabriel

i had put it in a previous post

this is sum of all my pains

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=41556

Laurent

Posted by: GeneT95 Apr 11 2015, 07:09 PM

Sorry Gabriel. Will post today. Been sick so haven't been doing much last 2 weeks (never got around to anything but the little rhythm practice with the track) and I got a wedding to go to in an hour or so. By tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

Posted by: Nick6373 Apr 11 2015, 10:42 PM

Hey Gab, sorry I didn't manage to get a full take... I couldn't get anything I liked.

Posted by: GeneT95 Apr 12 2015, 05:11 PM

Gabriel, here is the rhythm track.

https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/eyeopenerrhythm

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 13 2015, 07:38 AM

Tomorrow we'll start mixing, so today is the very last chance to upload the needed files (Dough where are thou )

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 13 2015, 05:55 PM

Thanks Jonesey! Man! You have got some of that true grit to play with a broken finger. Let no one question your love for playing guitar!

Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 13 2015, 08:36 PM

Hehehe!!! If anything it's taught me to have /try to have a lighter touch. It feels SO different!!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 13 2015, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the takes guys!

As Kris said, we will start mixing tomorrow so today is the last chance to receive your files.

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 18 2015, 09:49 PM

hey !

what's up doc ?

Laurent

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 19 2015, 07:57 AM

The mix is coming along nicely, I think it should be ready some time next week!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 19 2015, 09:21 AM

yeah !!!

i'm so impatient !

Laurent

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 20 2015, 09:55 PM

Hey guys! This is the final mix for this one:  Eye_Opening_Collab_Final_Mix.mp3 ( 5.86MB ) : 395


I hope that you enjoy it! Thanks everybody for joining and congrats on the great job!

Participants:

Bas Cuthach, Sensible Jones, Procyon, AKRich, Todd Simpson, GeneT95, Kristofer Dahl, Monica Gheorghevici, Bleez, MisterM, Phil66 and Fzalfa.


Order of apparition:

Bas Cutach + Sensible Jones: Creating the atmosphere
Procyon: Solo over the created atmosphere
AK Rich Solo over GeneT95 and Bas Cuthach arrangements.
Todd Simpson Solo while GeneT95 continues adding rhythm.
Kristofer Dahl Solo, Gene continues rocking.
Monica solo over Kris’s rhythm delay auto pan arrangement and also some Massive synth addition. Bas Cuthach joins in the second half.
Bleez and MisterM guitar solos interact perfectly over the backing destroyed with industrial effect.
Phil66 and Fzalfa solos go nicely together while backing fade down and Bas Cuthach once again with his delay based rhythm.

Posted by: AK Rich Apr 21 2015, 04:16 AM

Wow! Let me be the first to say what a great job the instructors have done with the arrangement and mix for this collab. Pat yourselves on the back guys! And of course a fine job by all who participated as well! Rock on guys and gals! What's next!?

Posted by: MisterM Apr 21 2015, 06:29 AM

Good Job All

I'm happy to have participated in this first collaborative

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 21 2015, 07:47 AM

ho yeah !!

it's nice !! really , you have done a good alchemy with all our differences

Laurent

ps: Fzafa, not Pzalfa.... Forza Alfa in condensed (yesi'm am alfisti too....)

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 21 2015, 08:02 AM

Congrats to everyone! I always enjoy to hear all the takes together
Cool and interesting final result. A little different that I had in mind over this backing track but this is the charm Thank you and congrats Gab for the mix
Also thank you again Kris for your feedback and BTW your take still shine for me in the mix and has the best musical idea

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 21 2015, 08:16 AM

The ultimate evidence of a successful collab, is when the end result can be enjoyed as music.

And the track we produced together sends shivers down my spine - this was a killer collab.

Big congratulations to everybody!

Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 21 2015, 10:49 AM

Amazing job guys!!!
Great mixing job yet again Gab!! This one turned out superb!!

Posted by: Bas Cuthach Apr 21 2015, 02:56 PM

and to think i was scared how my take would turn out lol, great job

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 21 2015, 09:34 PM

Hey guys! I'm glad to know that you liked the final mix of this one. I've found the backing and your takes really inspiring while mixing, and also this is the first important work with my new monitors, so it was even more inspiring.

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 21 2015, 10:23 PM

Thanks Gab,

These things are real confidence builders. Great mix thank you for doing this and thanks to everyone involved, great job folks

Phil