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GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ Violin, Do Any Of You Play?

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 12:42 PM

I am soon to start learning the Violin alongside guitar smile.gif If anyone else on GMC also plays or has played and knows and good online resources for beginners or just has some general tips, would be much appreciated. biggrin.gif

P.S: Has anyone here tried a violin bow on their guitar? If so do you know if it damages the bow at all? Or has an unpleasant happening to your guitar? smile.gif Thanks


- Hemlok

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 01:00 PM

Well actually you can only hit low and high E with the bow, and it will for sure damage the bow. Violin has strings placed at different heights to be able to hit each string independently.

How old are you? Violin players start at very young age, those who attend music schools for violins and later academies start at the age of 6!

Posted by: Owen Jul 11 2007, 01:09 PM

My mate tried that in school once - randomly took it out the teacher cupboard when no-one was there and tried to play his les paul with it, all the hair bit comes out the bow if you try to do it Page style, I believe you can put it back in again, but its probably not worth your hassle to try.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 01:14 PM

Bow is not made to play metal strings. You destroy it playing metal strings so don't even try it!

A friend of mine is a professional violin player: she bought a violin worth 15000 euro + 2 bows - each costs 2000 euro.

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 01:22 PM

Good enough for me, bow can stay with its intended instrument smile.gif

I am 19, so I have no chance of ever making music on violin because i didn't start at age 6?! I don't understand that.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 01:28 PM

The point is the technique! You will never be able to gain technique as a pro-violin-player has! You're too old to get into professional music with violin!

You will sure be able to play some simple stuff for your own pleasure!

On guitar you can pick the way you like, wrist, fingers, elbow etc. - on violin there are much more strict rules of playing! There is only CORRECT or WRONG way!! Unfortunately, right hand technique is WAAAY more difficult to master than holding a guitar pick! smile.gif Also you must have a perfect pitch to be able to play violin so somebody else can listen to your playing. There are no frets there. It's all done by ear. That's why violinists always start from very young age.

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 01:30 PM

Darnit! no matter, its just for fun anyway..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN5Laf48se0

^ Hey there is some hope for me smile.gif If i could one day even play this i would be happy. haha

Posted by: Guitarman700 Jul 11 2007, 03:15 PM

One of my friends plays violin.(he's 35) The amazing thing is, he is an awesome player, but hes been blind since birth!

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 03:44 PM

Wow guitarman700! That is great to hear, there are many amazing blind musicians. I was listening to a blues guitarist a while back, cant remember the name, but yeah he was just creating fantastic music.

When did you friend start playing the violin?

- Hemlok

Posted by: fkalich Jul 11 2007, 03:47 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 07:30 AM) *
Darnit! no matter, its just for fun anyway..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN5Laf48se0

^ Hey there is some hope for me smile.gif If i could one day even play this i would be happy. haha


if you want to play it for your own personal enjoyment, why not? However, I do suspect that this is something where one might start out, and then just go back to his guitar. But I don't know that, I don't know you. Myself, I suspect that would be the case, were I to do this. But I think guitarists can learn a lot listening to violin.

If you ever watch old videos of Jimmy Page using the bow, you see it is shredded by the end of the song.

Posted by: Kaneda Jul 11 2007, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Jul 11 2007, 02:28 PM) *
The point is the technique! You will never be able to gain technique as a pro-violin-player has! You're too old to get into professional music with violin!

You will sure be able to play some simple stuff for your own pleasure!

On guitar you can pick the way you like, wrist, fingers, elbow etc. - on violin there are much more strict rules of playing! There is only CORRECT or WRONG way!! Unfortunately, right hand technique is WAAAY more difficult to master than holding a guitar pick! smile.gif Also you must have a perfect pitch to be able to play violin so somebody else can listen to your playing. There are no frets there. It's all done by ear. That's why violinists always start from very young age.


For once, I (somewhat) disagree with you, Pavel. You're right about the technical difficulties, it's insanely more difficult to develop a good tone and technique on a violin than a guitar.

But, why so much discouragement? smile.gif Noone said anything about wanting to be a professional violin player as far as I can see.

It's sure to help development on all other instruments (as long as you don't give up practicing guitar, because you need so much practice on the violin). And as long as you don't expect to play in a concert hall in 5 years (or 20, most likely), you'll be good eventually - no matter if you're 6 or 60 when you start - as long as you practice, practice, practice wink.gif

So, I'd say the no. 1 tip is to be persistent - like guitar, it'll take some time (but again, be prepared for much longer time than guitar) before you can play anything that sounds good.

But when you're at the point where you've developed a nice, somewhat-friendly-to-the-ears tone and accuracy, you can impress a truly musical audience more than most of the 12 year old technical prodigies - because you can use that tone to actually tell them something. That will take the 12 year old probably at least another 6-10 years to "learn" wink.gif

Of course he'll be likely to end up being better technically and musically than you, eventually. But who cares?

Don't give up smile.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 03:50 PM

ah its just something i plan on doing when im having rest from practicing guitar, i am sure i will be able to find time to practice both, but i wont be putting violin first, therefor im sure it will take a while to see some progress after the early stage.


@Kaneda: thanks for the post smile.gif i wont give up! i know that with lots of practice i will be able to do what i want to the violin. one day tongue.gif

Secondly Kaneda can i ask what your Avatar picture is? I cant help but stare at it everytime i see it biggrin.gif

- Hemlok

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 11 2007, 03:57 PM

WOW, Interesting disucssion, I always wanted to learn but opted for the guitar instead! smile.gif

Posted by: Kaneda Jul 11 2007, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 04:50 PM) *
Secondly Kaneda can i ask what your Avatar picture is? I cant help but stare at it everytime i see it biggrin.gif


It's actually me wink.gif Or rather, a photo of me, brought through some "Anime"-morph utility I found on the web a few years ago - it didn't do a great job, so if you look at it wrong, you'd probably have to be told it's a face before seeing it. Considering replacing it with a handdrawn portrait at some point smile.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 04:37 PM

@Kaneda: Ah ok. Nah i like it a lot, its interesting. Hehe but yes i could see the face. You would have be wearing beer goggles to not see the face i think tongue.gif

@mattacuk: Well from reading this discussion you can see it's never too late! If you have the time of course and determination I guess.

- Hemlok

Posted by: fkalich Jul 11 2007, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jul 11 2007, 10:00 AM) *
It's actually me wink.gif Or rather, a photo of me, brought through some "Anime"-morph utility I found on the web a few years ago - it didn't do a great job, so if you look at it wrong, you'd probably have to be told it's a face before seeing it. Considering replacing it with a handdrawn portrait at some point smile.gif


Well you score points for doing something unusual. I like the hand drawn idea. I also was curious about this avator. But was afraid to ask.

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 05:05 PM

Well i am glad i popped the question! smile.gif

Now onto you fkalich! who's angry pussycat? tongue.gif

Posted by: Kaneda Jul 11 2007, 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 06:05 PM) *
Well i am glad i popped the question! smile.gif

Now onto you fkalich! who's angry pussycat? tongue.gif


We need an "explain your avatar and username" thread wink.gif

I have a quickly handdrawn anime portrait of me, which a friend did once upon a time - quite incredible how close about 20 lines can get to portraying a person smile.gif

Before that, I used to have an avatar somewhat similar to fkalich, but found that lots of others had it too - but I still like it (and its title):

http://www.amiga.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1621&cid=33

Besides, an anime character fits better with my nickname smile.gif

Posted by: fkalich Jul 11 2007, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 11:05 AM) *
Well i am glad i popped the question! smile.gif

Now onto you fkalich! who's angry pussycat? tongue.gif


well that should have been an animated gif. but the gif was too large, and it got converted to jpeg by the server here. the gif is cool, the cat fires his assault weapon.

I decided to change this now to my actual pets. I will rotate them, dog and 8 cats. Start with my best friend, BoBo.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 11 2007, 05:21 PM

QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 11 2007, 12:02 PM) *
Well you score points for doing something unusual. I like the hand drawn idea. I also was curious about this avator. But was afraid to ask.


Awwwww fkalich ... the dog is cute but I loved the firearm wielding cat smile.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 11 2007, 05:23 PM

8 cats!? Geesh, i couldn't imagine living with 8 cats, how do they treat your dog? haha
oh and he is a cute one

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 11 2007, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 04:37 PM) *
@Kaneda: Ah ok. Nah i like it a lot, its interesting. Hehe but yes i could see the face. You would have be wearing beer goggles to not see the face i think tongue.gif

@mattacuk: Well from reading this discussion you can see it's never too late! If you have the time of course and determination I guess.

- Hemlok


Well im sure it can be done, but Guitar already takes up every evening i have! laugh.gif Your still young, so you are at an advantage! I think its VERY cool to play multiple intraments! biggrin.gif

Posted by: fkalich Jul 11 2007, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jul 11 2007, 11:19 AM) *
Before that, I used to have an avatar somewhat similar to fkalich, but found that lots of others had it too - but I still like it (and its title):

http://www.amiga.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1621&cid=33


that is cute. Need to send that to my older brother. He feeds birds with feeders in his back yard, and the neighborhood cats are on to him. He left me a phone message yesterday, chanting "kill kitties, kill kitties". I do try to manage things so that birds are not killed in my neighborhood. A couple get it every year, but with 8 cats who all go out some, I do a pretty good job of protecting the birds.

Posted by: fkalich Jul 11 2007, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 11 2007, 11:23 AM) *
8 cats!? Geesh, i couldn't imagine living with 8 cats, how do they treat your dog? haha
oh and he is a cute one


He is a great dog. 8 cats is all I want. actually 6 is all I want. 6 is a good number. They all uses the same litter box, really not hard. And with scoopable litter, well thank god for scoopable litter. Only hard thing is that they all need attention and affection, so that takes some effort with 8. The dog gets along fine. Three of them go with him on his midnight walk around the block. I do that with my night vision scope so I can keep my eye on them, my neighborhood is very dark, no streetlights. I also can point out rabbits to the dog so he can chase them. He does not hurt them, just wants to chase them, and smell where they were.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 06:03 PM

@Kaneda: the only thing i wanted to point out is that violin is more difficult than guitar in many points of view. Everybody can scream out a couple of notes on it but to make it a real music and to go with it to public you have to be able to do something more than that!

Violin "prodigies" - as you called them - are learning from basics and small age, playing musical pieces written by geniuses of classical music so you can't compare that with "improvisation" on violin. Classical music is THE MOTHER and also very difficult to play in the right way. If you are playing stuff for fun than go ahead!

No discouragement here!! smile.gif

btw. learning violin at this age will reduce your time you could spend on guitar - so it's your choice! I just stated the facts! smile.gif

Posted by: Robin Jul 11 2007, 06:03 PM

I've wanted to learn to play violin for a while now, but I dont have time, so tongue.gif

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 06:07 PM

Sorry for this post - accidently clicked QUOTE instead of EDIT and posted....

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 11 2007, 06:48 PM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Jul 11 2007, 01:03 PM) *
the only thing i wanted to point out is that violin is more difficult than guitar in many points of view.


That is certainly true in my opinion - From seeing kids learn at school, it seems that they scrape away for years, and then reach a certain point with their intonation and become virtuosos overnight - there is really no in between. Guitar, you can sound decent a lot more quickly. But as others have said, don;t let us discourage you - go for it smile.gif

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jul 11 2007, 09:55 PM

Hmm, i have a friend (he's like 13 or 12) that plays Violin since 3, and he's awesome. But on the Vow thing, i remember that Jimmy Page used it in a concert...right?

Posted by: Pavel Jul 11 2007, 11:51 PM

Jimmy Page has enough money to waste on stuff like that! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Kaneda Jul 12 2007, 12:59 AM

QUOTE
the only thing i wanted to point out is that violin is more difficult than guitar in many points of view.


In mine too, you'll notice wink.gif

About the rest, we pretty much agree - one thing I'd like to make clearer, though...

QUOTE (Pavel @ Jul 11 2007, 07:03 PM) *
Violin "prodigies" - as you called them - are learning from basics and small age, playing musical pieces written by geniuses of classical music so you can't compare that with "improvisation" on violin. Classical music is THE MOTHER and also very difficult to play in the right way. If you are playing stuff for fun than go ahead!


Not comparing to improvisation of any kind. You don't need to improvise to speak through music, you don't need to compose music either. You can express yourself perfectly well through a piece that was written by Mendelssohn or Chopin or whatever composer you fancy over 150 years or more ago. 12 year old violinists rarely - if ever (I've never encountered it) - do that. They just play it note by note. Which is fine, I guess.

The point is, it's a hundred times more impressive musically to hear a violinist who makes 20 mistakes in Bach's Air on the G string - if he speaks his life experience through that piece - than it is to hear a 12 year old play a Paganini caprice note by note, perfectly but without any experience or ideas to express.

And again, the experience and expression will (mostly) come to the 12 year old eventually, but a 25 or 60-year old already has that advantage.

I have a recording somewhere of me playing Chopin's Etude Op. 10, no. 4 at age 14 or 15. Every note is there, a single wrong note, it's played in (or a bit above) tempo, the dynamics are there. Is it music? Nope. It's awful, and I can't bear listening to it, because I'm not saying a thing - just playing it note by note.

Why don't I like Yngwie? Because he still plays like the 12 year old technical boy wonder smile.gif Even if he wrote the stuff himself.

QUOTE
No discouragement here!! smile.gif


Good smile.gif

Should add a few things that might scare you off, though. If you really want to learn, even at an amateur level, you should probably get a real, physical teacher at some point. Both to keep you at it (because the sound of a violin in a beginner's hands is not encouraging to anyone wink.gif) and to help your technique, because, as Pavel described, there are many more things that can go wrong in violin playing.

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 12 2007, 09:38 AM

Awsome post ! Its very interesting to learn more about Violin playing.

Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 12 2007, 04:08 PM

I always wanted to learn Violin, never got around to it though, maybe ill start checking out some beginner violins smile.gif

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 12 2007, 04:18 PM

Really i think it would be awsome to stand up infront a crowd and wow them with your violin skills biggrin.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 12 2007, 04:23 PM

and then chuck the violin into the audience and pull out your metal axe and melt their faces!! tongue.gif

Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 12 2007, 06:07 PM

Double neck guitar where one neck is a violin smile.gif

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 12 2007, 06:41 PM

QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jul 12 2007, 06:07 PM) *
Double neck guitar where one neck is a violin smile.gif


Now that would be a super skill blink.gif

Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 12 2007, 06:53 PM

JImmy page already has the Violin bow, he just needs to modify the double neck SG Of his

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 13 2007, 03:45 PM

Well today i got my violin..... and boy do i suck smile.gif

I have already snapped a string, and i havnt tuned it yet, but its loads of fun even tho it sounds crap haha tongue.gif

But i have been spending too much time playing it. Enough whiskey, its making me tired. time for a coffee and then guitar for the rest of the night.

- Hemlok

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 13 2007, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 13 2007, 10:45 AM) *
Well today i got my violin..... and boy do i suck smile.gif

I have already snapped a string, and i havnt tuned it yet, but its loads of fun even tho it sounds crap haha tongue.gif

But i have been spending too much time playing it. Enough whiskey, its making me tired. time for a coffee and then guitar for the rest of the night.

- Hemlok


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Good for you! Why not post a really awful audio clip to vindicate me and Pavel, then set about proving us wrong over the coming months smile.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 13 2007, 04:33 PM

sure i certainly will! and everyones can listen, i will make a topic called HEY LISTEN TO THIS! and all the GMC'ers can have their eardrums bled out. tongue.gif

But seriously, once i order some new strings, and if i can manage to not snap them biggrin.gif look out!

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 13 2007, 04:38 PM

Now you have your Violin you can give me your sweet LesPaul, is it a Gibson? biggrin.gif

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 13 2007, 04:44 PM

Of course it is a Gibson! biggrin.gif and no way josé no one gets my Les Paul, its going to be buried with me, buried in the flames! tongue.gif

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 13 2007, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 13 2007, 04:44 PM) *
Of course it is a Gibson! biggrin.gif and no way josé no one gets my Les Paul, its going to be buried with me, buried in the flames! tongue.gif


I have to hate you now, i hope you understand wink.gif Im saving for a Gibson Les Paul, what colour is yours classed as?i really like it. My current Guitar is a very sweet copy, im lucky to have it as my first !

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 14 2007, 02:19 AM

Wine Red smile.gif It is a beauty!

I love this colour the most, there isnt really a huge amount of options for colours. Otherwise I like black too, but I already have a black guitar.

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 14 2007, 05:03 AM

ooh ok there goes another string, so i have the D and the E string left, but i still have to tune them ohmy.gif

You get what you pay for i guess, a $20 violin surely wasn't meant to last more then 2 days. tongue.gif

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 14 2007, 09:18 AM

Yeah man, its between black and wine red for me i think. Im not too keen on the older sunburst finishes!

Posted by: Hemlok Jul 14 2007, 09:23 AM

Yeah the sunburst finishes aren't too special. With this wine red too, you can see the wood grain through the finish and it looks awesome. I don't think you would be able to with black.

Posted by: mattacuk Jul 14 2007, 09:36 AM

QUOTE (Hemlok @ Jul 14 2007, 09:23 AM) *
Yeah the sunburst finishes aren't too special. With this wine red too, you can see the wood grain through the finish and it looks awesome. I don't think you would be able to with black.


Sounds nice man, youll have to post some HQ pics for me wink.gif I dont really fancy going for black again, I quite like the translucent colours there doing on the LesPaul Godess but i dont think i could buy one of those huh.gif

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