Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
GMC Forum _ Bands and Guitarists _ Fire & Flames
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 10:56 AM
I really enjoy playing GitarHero III (and World Tour), a lot. I'm proud to have the highest score between my boyfriend and I *woohoo* We have had several nights with beer and annoying our neighbours to extent. *hehe* Oh, it was also escpesially fun to have a prelude-GH-party-thingy and then just walk to the outdoor concert that Metallica had in 2008.
Anyhow- Yes, my question to you talented guys at GMC:
Can anyone of you play Fire & Flames on your guitar?
I think I have seen Kristofer Dahl doing some of that...or did I dream it?
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 11:02 AM
You mean Dragonforce - Through the fire and flames? Emir, Zsolt, Muris surely can and few others i think:)
In my opinion they overuse effects too much.. sounds like a synth not guitar..
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 11:09 AM
Wow! *kneel to the gods*
Do you know if they have made any videorecordings?
I would love to see it
They are pretty frantic at work those Dragonforceguys. I thought "Through Fire & Flames" was a joke the first time I heard it.
CRAZY!
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 11:10 AM
Well i don`t think so, i just said that they skill level is enough to handle it 
Well maybe you can ask a lesson in style of this:)
Point is that without effect those solos isn`t that sick I don`t heard that Herman Li played something on 170bmp with 16th triplets like Muris does
Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 25 2009, 11:12 AM
seems you havent seen too many guitar gods then:) Dragonforce are NOT that hard. Yes, they are fast, but those players are not that godlike. They are good, but there are better.
Their music is heavily processed by recording software - if you chech out their older live shows, you'll see they messup all the time:)
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 11:18 AM
Eh...*hahaha*...I wish. I could't handle it.
But - hey: if some other members could try it - bring it on!
*woohoo*
...
Their music is heavily processed by recording software - if you chech out their older live shows, you'll see they messup all the time:)
Sorry about my bad phrasing: *kneel to OUR GMC gods* I should of said.....thinking that our instructors here can play anything we throw at them! That really impresses me.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll mess up...If I'm not mistaken its about 1500 notehits in that song/tune.
I'll just make a note to self on that one.
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 11:22 AM
Practise much and one day you might kick Dragonforce asses! 
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 11:25 AM
hahaha, that would be awesome!
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 25 2009, 03:27 PM
Pretty easy song. took my about a week to get the whole thing. then i promptly practiced a song that actually has musical merit. dragonforce REALLY isn't anything special or hard.
Posted by: Fsgdjv Mar 25 2009, 04:06 PM
I don't really know how that song is from beginning to the end, but I'm pretty sure the studio version has got some tricky sweeps etc. I know I quoted you but this is directed to everybody who says their songs are so easy to play, please upload you playing the studio versions perfectly, I'd love to see that. Sure they mess up live, but that doesn't mean the songs aren't tricky to pull off if you play them well.
Posted by: wrk Mar 25 2009, 04:34 PM
...
... i give up !! Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 04:55 PM
With all sweeps and tapping on ~180 bpm?
Got any recording?And come on guys stop telling they are noobs, i don`t like them too, but they need to be respected at least for speed and accuracy
Posted by: Chokehold Mar 25 2009, 05:06 PM
I just looked at the guitar pro tab at ultimate-guitar, and i'm now really sure that he could have played it in a week.
Posted by: Andrew6 Mar 25 2009, 05:10 PM
Got any recording?And come on guys stop telling they are noobs, i don`t like them too, but they need to be respected at least for speed and accuracy
+1 Dragonforce may be overrated but they do have at very least excellent technique. I wouldn't call them the greatest shredders to ever exist but that doesn't mean they aren't incredible guitar players.
Posted by: TreyDeschamp Mar 25 2009, 05:15 PM
They are good I will admit but live....they sucks. They practice for the albums and get everything right and then they just go out and drink or at least from what I hear. They are too over rated to me even though I do have them on my ipod. I liked the song before it was on guitar hero because you didnt hear "Through the Fire and Flames" every second of your life.
They are a good band but they arent like gods. Paul Guilbert= GOD, Buckethead=GOD, Dragonforce= the annoying overrated over played people that can play extremly fast but arent impressive in person and have really nice guitars and alot of money and overdo there effect.
By the way sorry if this post sounded rude it wasnt suppose to it just gets annoying how people think that Dragonforce gets called a god by the world but players like Mr. Guilbert never get the credit that they deserve by the world.
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 05:17 PM
I saw them in a video on YouTube and my jaw dropped. They seem spastic, frantic and insane..or on speed.
The notes are RIDICULOUS hard to hit in GitarHero though, someone tried?
Back to the band: the two guys seem to have a unique dynamic and if one of them leaves the band I have a feeling Dragonforce wouldnt produce the same type of music anymore, at least not the same sound.
Posted by: TreyDeschamp Mar 25 2009, 05:19 PM
The notes are RIDICULOUS hard to hit in GitarHero though, someone tried?
Back to the band: the two guys seem to have a unique dynamic and if one of them leaves the band I have a feeling Dragonforce wouldnt produce the same type of music anymore, at least not the same sound.
Honestly they wouldnt produce at all. If Herman Li left the band then Sam Totman wouldnt be able to do it alone. Alot of there stuff takes two guitarists to pull of their songs. Totman wouldnt be able to play stuff like that by himself. I would think it would be awkward to replace one of them with another guitarist also....
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 05:31 PM
The notes are RIDICULOUS hard to hit in GitarHero though, someone tried?
Back to the band: the two guys seem to have a unique dynamic and if one of them leaves the band I have a feeling Dragonforce wouldnt produce the same type of music anymore, at least not the same sound.
I don`t tried, but trust me that hitting note with your pinky on 19 fret while your index finger is on 10 is even harder
Guitar hero don`t make you play better, but i think it`s a fun game, i love to try that. 
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 05:51 PM
When I stretch out as you describe above I reach the 15th fret...
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 05:58 PM
15 ? no way..
do a proper warm up always before playing and sure you will do better!
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 06:07 PM
Hm...I do have small hands...and I'm only 162cm tall...Oh noo! Should I have bought a "baby-guitar"?!
Am I in real troubble here or is my only way foreward tapping tapping tapping?!?!
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 06:13 PM
Yeah it`s a big matter of height too i think, I`m 194cm.. and yes there are guitars with smaller scale size, might be useful in future for you think
No, just keep practising and you will reach more with your fretting hand. I think string skipping, tapping, and sweeping(especially minor shapes on lower frets) helps good with stretching. Well there always are tons of ways.
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 06:17 PM
Hm..If so, why do you think the guy in the shop sold the guitar to me?...would'nt it be proper for him to have said something? Or is that something I shouldnt take for granted?
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 06:29 PM
Well shop-assistants are not always interested in customer wishes and I`m not saying you NEED guitar with smaller scale size, they are aren`t very widespread, but you could try and maybe you`ll like it:) For example Yngwie don`t have long thin fingers but looks like he feels great with his
Posted by: berko Mar 25 2009, 06:31 PM
Hm..If so, why do you think the guy in the shop sold the guitar to me?...would'nt it be proper for him to have said something? Or is that something I shouldnt take for granted?
Only talking about hand size: Stretching from the 10th fret I can hardly reach the 16th fret (I can, but it's much harder to handle and I couldn't ever reach the 17th fret, not even with the point of my pinky). You have perfectly normal hands. Speaking of small guitars: there are small guitars with the fretboard 3/4 or 1/2 the size of a normal guitar - these are for very young children. Other than that, guitar scales only differ in a maximum of 1 inch (24.5 - 25.5 inch). Bass guitars and guitars with more lower bass strings (7 and 8 string guitars) can have a 27 or 30 inch scale, but that's LONG.
So don't worry about it, you wouldn't even notice the difference.
if you have a finger on the 10 fret and would like to reach the 19th, you can always tap the 19th fret
Posted by: Andrew6 Mar 25 2009, 06:34 PM
I can only reach 17 comfortably and I am also about 190ish cm hahah . Do they not play that part over the top of the neck? Which makes the stretch A LOT easier?
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 25 2009, 06:41 PM
Well i can reach even 20 fret (looks creepy 
) and string even rings a bit( not fully ) but i can`t play something with that, so there are no point for now, and i believe that with years of playing fingers grows somehow! actually this is the only explanation i see why Paul Gilbert`s pinky is enormously long!
btw- My left hand middle finger is for 3-4 milimeters longer than right hand`s, LOL... maybe they really grow somehow.
And no, i stretch with holding thumb behind the neck, without that this is completely unuseful, you jsut can`t hit hard enough to ring something:)
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 25 2009, 09:24 PM
) and string even rings a bit( not fully ) but i can`t play something with that, so there are no point for now, and i believe that with years of playing fingers grows somehow! actually this is the only explanation i see why Paul Gilbert`s pinky is enormously long! btw- My left hand middle finger is for 3-4 milimeters longer than right hand`s, LOL... maybe they really grow somehow.
And no, i stretch with holding thumb behind the neck, without that this is completely unuseful, you jsut can`t hit hard enough to ring something:)
Ohh....thats creepy...
do a proper warm up always before playing and sure you will do better!btw. A good warup will it ...ehm...
...grow a fingerlenght too?
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 26 2009, 07:48 AM
Well, no but you need to do a warmup, if you don`t want to get injury on your fingers\wrist, and also that makes you play a bit better than without warmup.
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/warming-up-with-marcus-siepen/ That`s a really good warmup, i do it myself everyday, i added much more things, but for beginner (or you aren`t a beginner?) it should be more than enough.
And never play with cold hands, it`s painful and risky:)
Not that creepy, and nothing really unusual, our instructor Ian Bushell can reach even more i think
We`ve doing serious offtop here 
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 08:35 AM
Looks a bit weird. Thanks for the link. I'll bookmark it
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 26 2009, 08:44 AM
Yeah, that guitar horn ( or how it`s called) disturb my hand, so it`s a bit wierd.. And you don`t need to bookmark it! Jump on it now!
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 08:48 AM
Ok. I'm on it, now.
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 10:07 AM
*coffee break*
Uh, speaking of that. Hehe, by the time my hand is rested It's more or less cold again... *hmrpf*
And it is really a funny feeling: the fingertips on my left hand still feels asleep as well as throbbing...
Posted by: Andrew6 Mar 26 2009, 10:10 AM
becareful! Don't rush into those huge stretches you can do some damage, take time and do easier exercises first such as the finger independence series this will help work to those stretches you shouldnt simply start at the high end of things i.e. you wouldn't learn 8 finger tapping before you learn 1 finger taping
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 10:14 AM
I have tapped my first note
Quite hard to know actually. If I am careful or not...because it's supposed to hurt, right?
Maybe it would help if I knew how my posture is and actually should be?
Hm...
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 26 2009, 10:18 AM
Congrats on that!
yes and of course don`t rush things that Andrew mentioned, all will come with time 
Oh and i forgot, you can do that before warm up on guitar, that will be perfect
And when you hands are getting cold again, just massage them a bit, or just don`t take too large breaks like 1 minute playing, 3 minutes resting If it hurts you should stop immediately! if it`s uncomfortoble a bit it`s ok, but not painful. You not gonna do the split if it hurts, right?
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 10:46 AM
Thanks for that video!
Hehe, well...if you by accident slide on milk on some slippery ceramic floor ...you may find yourself in the split position...
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 26 2009, 11:16 AM
Well, maybe but i`ll better fall like a sack of potatoes instead of doing the split
Oh, and there are some lessons you may find helpful - http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/One_o_one_tapping.htm, http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/speed-alternate-picking-lesson1.htm, http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/beginner-guitar/beginner-scales.htm 
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 11:19 AM
*woohoo* Thanks a bunch Alex
Posted by: Jesse Mar 26 2009, 03:20 PM
ehm he actually fell:D
Guitar hero don`t make you play better, but i think it`s a fun game, i love to try that. I can actually hit the 20th with pinky:D
Guitar hero don`t make you play better, but i think it`s a fun game, i love to try that. I can actually hit the 20th with pinky:D
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 26 2009, 03:35 PM
Uh..not the best band live then.
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 26 2009, 07:15 PM
Glad to hear that, well I`m soon gonna hit 22
And that video was hilarious really!! Herman was pathethic if compare to studio version LOOl fall on a stage i think is one of the biggest shame ever
before sick jumps you better train them at home But Herman Li seems a nice guy, and having fun of this all
Posted by: Marc_Maiden Mar 29 2009, 05:30 PM
i learned this song a long time ago....its hard in the sense that its fast,
but muscle memory will serve you well here
there is no "complicated" runs...this is no dream theater...its minor scale going up and down (in the solo) and the bridges are not too tough either...just practice it slow and work your way up,
i did this when i wasnt very good and got it pretty well....
Posted by: Sircraigery Mar 29 2009, 06:37 PM
I didn't think that sounded half bad. If herman's guitar was a touch louder it would be spot on.
That that was priceless to see everyone trying not to laugh when he fell on his face LOL
Posted by: Evil_Invader Mar 29 2009, 07:02 PM
Don't like this stuff at all.. but nice guitar Herman has, I just bought the same Prestige!
Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 29 2009, 07:23 PM
Dragonforce might not be the best shredders on the planet.. and they do usually suck live, but saying that playing a song like through the fire and flames is "easy" is a bit of a stretch
The notes might be memorized fast enough, but i have my doubts about getting it to sound just as clean and fast as on the original recording (processed or not). But i would love to be proven wrong Bring on the videos!
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 29 2009, 07:49 PM
+1 to that!
Posted by: kjutte Mar 29 2009, 09:12 PM
The notes might be memorized fast enough, but i have my doubts about getting it to sound just as clean and fast as on the original recording (processed or not). But i would love to be proven wrong
Bring on the videos!Ok, for those of you that still think their records aren't speed up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPp9rImK670 !! epic fail!
The funniest part is that Totman can't even play his (easy) lick slow.
Posted by: berko Mar 29 2009, 11:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPp9rImK670 !! epic fail!
The funniest part is that Totman can't even play his (easy) lick slow.
That vid is epic... it seems inconceivable but its true. "It was a bit messy" LOL
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 30 2009, 06:38 AM
Yeah, his sweeps sux because he use strange hand position, which i saw in his other video.Betcha i can`t play this now =| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqtbgDO2OHM&feature=related
Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 30 2009, 12:06 PM
That live recording was like the most unproffesional thing I saw from professional band. 2:10-2:12 was like the #1 Epic Fail I ever saw.. Even a substandart guitarist (as me) would play some whammy bar harmonic or smt... Those who dont know the song regard that pause as fail... On the other hand, I - being a sam - would go home and give up guitar after this.
Regarding that "lesson" - I can provide you with better playing of that, even tho I play one year. That is REALLY simple and I guess nobody doubts it On the other hand, You can see, that Sams hands are shaking. He probably has stage fright..
Posted by: Artemus Mar 30 2009, 12:21 PM
CRINGE!!!
Posted by: kjutte Mar 30 2009, 01:31 PM
Yeah, his sweeps sux because he use strange hand position, which i saw in his other video.Betcha i can`t play this now =| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqtbgDO2OHM&feature=related
Nah... If you know how to sweep, you'll be able to sweep in that position too.
He claims it's the only pos that works for him, but let's face it, he can't sweep at all.
Posted by: Darfuria Mar 30 2009, 04:10 PM
Through the Fire and the Flames has a few tricky lead bits, but the riff behind it is pretty easy. You just have to work on your picking speed. It didn't take me too long to learn the rhythm section, so I'm sure you can do it too.
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 30 2009, 04:22 PM
We`re talking about leads actually
Edit: ok, to keep it clear actually, we would like to see how it`s easy for you guys to play lead from 3.20 to 4.30
Posted by: Andrew6 Mar 30 2009, 04:39 PM
I couldn't play that if my life depended on it
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 30 2009, 04:49 PM
Well, you didn`t said that was easy but someone said it`s a piece of cake, so i wonder maybe there are monster shredders amongst GMC members
And for those who think Herman can`t play that fast, and all was speed up Ok, he`s worse thatn others in there but, he`s fast and surely don`t suck at guitar.
Posted by: Andrew6 Mar 30 2009, 04:57 PM
but someone said it`s a piece of cake, so i wonder maybe there are monster shredders amongst GMC members And for those who think Herman can`t play that fast, and all was speed up
Ok, he`s worse thatn others in there but, he`s fast and surely don`t suck at guitar.nice vid! That was actually some good playing on his part!
Posted by: Rapitap Mar 30 2009, 06:17 PM
Hear hear
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 30 2009, 07:40 PM
Niether can they. ive seen this "band" live 4 times, and it was a disaster. the couldent play their parts worth crap, and the vocalist was completely hammered. they basicaly fumbled around the stage for an hour or so, then left. it was the worst live show I have EVER seen. if sam and herman are going to pass themselves off as super guitar gods, they better be prepared to back it up on stage. but they cant, so they suck.
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 30 2009, 08:03 PM
Someone sounds angry
I think they had serious stage fright and that`s why all that slopiness come, fear really takes your strenghts away. Well if they don`t i can`t find a reason why they suck:) and that jam on G3 2008 Herman does isn`t bad at all.
Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 30 2009, 08:26 PM
Edit: ok, to keep it clear actually, we would like to see how it`s easy for you guys to play lead from 3.20 to 4.30
I'd like to see Herman actually play it that clear. I am NOT saying, its easy, I just said its not THAT hard - to be more specific, there are far more difficult things to play, than just those speedy nonsenses just up and down the scale. Not that its bad, but its repetitive - they dont play anything else than this...
Btw. on that "lesson" video (betcha cant play this...) you can clearly see, when Herman tries to "sweep" fast, his right hand movement is reeeeeeaaaaallllyyyyy baaaaaad. Hell I can play that clearer than him
Posted by: Fullmetal_Tmd Mar 31 2009, 03:48 AM
I've seen them live before too, and I can tell you right now, they didn't have a case of stage fright. They were surrounded by bottles and cans of beer >_> Sam and Herman kept falling and stumbling, hell, they even bumped into each other a few times, and they knocked over a mic stand or two. They were horribly out of sync with each other, and the sound system was horrible (the instruments kept fading out, and occasionally drowning each other out).
Fact of the matter is, Herman and Sam COULD be good players, but they seriously need to go back to their rooms for the next couple years and revise their techniques, and lay off the booze. Maybe after some serious work, THEN they could properly claim all the glory that Guitar Hero 3 got them.
Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 31 2009, 12:51 PM
Fact of the matter is, Herman and Sam COULD be good players, but they seriously need to go back to their rooms for the next couple years and revise their techniques, and lay off the booze. Maybe after some serious work, THEN they could properly claim all the glory that Guitar Hero 3 got them.
Well my point is quite similar:) I believe, they dont go as good example (not in the case of booze - remember, its sex drugs and THEN rock'n'roll, its Women, wine and THEN songs:) but when its time to play, its time to play:)). In my opinion, when you get famous as they did, its really embarrasing to be that uncompetent - to be playing so drunk, that you can't reproduce/provide what people paid for.
Posted by: AlexLion Mar 31 2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah, i agree with you
If you are famous you need at least stick with your own level that you did to became well known, but better is to progress of course.. I didn`t saw them live, but it would be interesting to see how they screw up everything And of course women and alcohol is more enjoyable and easy, than practise half a day
so maybe they just give up and enjoy live 
Posted by: Roadside Apr 5 2009, 08:24 AM
That live vid was horrible for sure! The guitars sounded out of tune and the unisono was at least at some parts totaly out of the timing signature. But anyway, they aren´t bad guitarists. And now I want to see that freakin´ vid learned in 168h
Posted by: kjutte Apr 5 2009, 02:24 PM
Agree to disagree?
Posted by: djohnneay Apr 5 2009, 03:47 PM
I saw Dragonforce this januari in Amsterdam (City of drugs), and I can tell you, they were not drunk (obviously) and competent enough to pull of all of their songs flawless. I think in the beginning they couldn´t match up to their fame, because they became `famous` that fast. Now they seem to have finally caught up.
Their new album, Ultra Beatdown, also has alot of new melodies and slower bits as well that get me every time. It also seems alot ´harder´ then their previous stuff.
Me being a total Dragonforce fan, I just HAD to tell you this.
Posted by: Sircraigery Apr 5 2009, 07:18 PM
Ok, how about a video then?
One take only with a backing track.
This tread should really be closed. I don't belong to GMC to hear our members trash other players. If you are all so good, then why not start your own websites so you can trash whoever you want.
Posted by: kaznie_NL Apr 5 2009, 07:32 PM
but someone said it`s a piece of cake, so i wonder maybe there are monster shredders amongst GMC members And for those who think Herman can`t play that fast, and all was speed up
Ok, he`s worse thatn others in there but, he`s fast and surely don`t suck at guitar. For improv
Li was actualy quite good Who's the guy that came after him? he rocked
Posted by: AlexLion Apr 5 2009, 07:34 PM
One take only with a backing track.
This tread should really be closed. I don't belong to GMC to hear our members trash other players. If you are all so good, then why not start your own websites so you can trash whoever you want.
Yeah, i completely agree with you. How can people criticise artists when they aren`t nowhere near not only in skill level but also in fame( i mean no one knows them in other countries\internet), that`s just ridiculuos.
to Kaznie: it`s Doug Doppler.
Posted by: tonymiro Apr 5 2009, 07:55 PM
I pretty much agree Alex and Craig - usual bit is if you have nothing nice to say then don't say it 
.
Nonetheless although some comments/opinions haven't been particularly nice they also haven't been abusive; to me they are just a difference of opinion. None have actually breached the posting guidelines - to me they are on the right side of it. So as for closing the thread - since there isn't any transgression of the posting guidelines I'll leave it up to the OP, i.e. Rapitap, as it's her thread.
Cheers,
Tony
Posted by: Sircraigery Apr 6 2009, 02:42 AM
Ok, I'll wait for videos then haha.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)