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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Mesa Boogie Mark Iic+ Grail Of Gain?
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 8 2014, 03:36 PM
I've been going through every amp on my 11R and keep returning to the MARK IIC+. For rythm and lead, it's just freaking brilliant. Having VERY limited experience with actual tube amps (what can I say, I"m a plugin/modeler type of guy) I wanted to ask if you guys had tried a real MARK IIC+ and if so what were your impressions?
The gain response in the modeled version is just splendid. Very tight, very quick, wads of gain. Has made me curious about trying a real one to be honest. After looking in to it, these amps are evidently quite coveted (Petrucci used to use them before switching to the modeled IIC+ on the AXE FX, not to mention the Lamb of God guys) and sell for twice the original price. 
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 8 2014, 09:04 PM
Anybody with a MESA MARK IIC+?
The gain response in the modeled version is just splendid. Very tight, very quick, wads of gain. Has made me curious about trying a real one to be honest. After looking in to it, these amps are evidently quite coveted (Petrucci used to use them before switching to the modeled IIC+ on the AXE FX, not to mention the Lamb of God guys) and sell for twice the original price.
Posted by: klasaine May 8 2014, 10:50 PM
I never had a mk.IIc.
I did have a mk.1 and I still have a Studio Caliber .22. Great, great amplifiers. Superb lead tone (when you can turn them up - they are LOUD!). No fizz what-so-ever and very present.
*Now I wanna find a Mark II C. (Todd the pusher man 
)
Posted by: SeeJay May 8 2014, 11:19 PM
I've played a few Mark Series Mesa's. I am not as intimately familiar with them as I am with others.
But here's what I know.
- You're going to have to hunt to find one, then you are going to pay a pretty good amount to get it.
- If you're looking to buy one, make sure it has the EQ section. Really does bring a whole new life to it.
- All the Mark Series amps are WAAAAYYYY better than the rectifier series. I know everyone had a Rectifier in the late 90's/early 2000's, but there are better amps. (plus I jut got tired of seeing dudes in small clubs with a trip rec with the gain to 10 and the could only turn the master to 2). During the II series they started working out some bugs that really made them great(mostly small things with the FX loops and footswitch I believe). I think the III, IV or V would be a great amp to hunt down as well.
- And as mentioned LOUD! (and I think they were pretty heavy to pick up as well)
But those old Mesa's are respectable amps for sure.
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 8 2014, 11:27 PM
Guilty as charged 
I actually want a MARK IIC+ as well now After researching it, wads of folks who have amazing tone swear by this amp. It's not a RECTO but it's not meant to be. The lead channel is just plain killer. I"m using it on every patch I've built so far in 11 Rack. If the emulation is anything like the real thing I'm already in love
As you mention, ZERO FIZZ. Which is what I love sooo much about it. The 11R emulations are supposed to be pretty accurate and if that's the case I"m already sold.
I did have a mk.1 and I still have a Studio Caliber .22. Great, great amplifiers. Superb lead tone (when you can turn them up - they are LOUD!). No fizz what-so-ever and very present.
*Now I wanna find a Mark II C. (Todd the pusher man
)You nailed it!! I checked and getting one in good shape goes U.S> $ 2,000-3,000!!!! Good lord!! Just for the head!!!
But here's what I know.
- You're going to have to hunt to find one, then you are going to pay a pretty good amount to get it.
- If you're looking to buy one, make sure it has the EQ section. Really does bring a whole new life to it.
- All the Mark Series amps are WAAAAYYYY better than the rectifier series. I know everyone had a Rectifier in the late 90's/early 2000's, but there are better amps. (plus I jut got tired of seeing dudes in small clubs with a trip rec with the gain to 10 and the could only turn the master to 2). During the II series they started working out some bugs that really made them great(mostly small things with the FX loops and footswitch I believe). I think the III, IV or V would be a great amp to hunt down as well.
- And as mentioned LOUD! (and I think they were pretty heavy to pick up as well)
But those old Mesa's are respectable amps for sure.
Posted by: SeeJay May 8 2014, 11:54 PM
Well, get it! And then next time I'm in ATL lemme borrow it.
When I was a kid there was a great used shop in Stone Mountain, GA that had an old Mesa Mark series that no one was interested in. Sat there forever. I remember thinking it was weird with the EQ section. I think it sold for about $800.
If I had only known.
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 9 2014, 12:16 AM
Small World!! That shop in Stone Mountain, was it called DIRT CHEEP MUSIC?
Now and then I see an old Mesa in a pawn shop or something but I"m usually afraid to go that route as the unit may need work. I'd need one that was in pretty good shape as I'm not an "amp guy" really. I would like one of the rack mount versions for sure!!!
When I was a kid there was a great used shop in Stone Mountain, GA that had an old Mesa Mark series that no one was interested in. Sat there forever. I remember thinking it was weird with the EQ section. I think it sold for about $800.
If I had only known.
Posted by: SeeJay May 9 2014, 12:38 AM
Who cares if it needs work. If it's at a shop that they don't know what they got and are selling cheap, probably worth picking up.
No it was called Saturn Music or something. Jupiter something . . . .Something spacey. Not Mars.
There's a chain in the building it used to be in. Can't think of what that chain is either.
Geez, my memory is selective. Can't tell you about my home town, but could tell you each year Zeppelin released an album.
Now and then I see an old Mesa in a pawn shop or something but I"m usually afraid to go that route as the unit may need work. I'd need one that was in pretty good shape as I'm not an "amp guy" really. I would like one of the rack mount versions for sure!!!
Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 9 2014, 12:41 AM
There is a MkIIC+ mode on my MkV, but I've never actually played the actual thing. However, a friend of mine who owned one of the holy grail IIC+ iterations with all correct bells and whistles played the MkIIC+ mode on the MkV and said that it was as good, if not better than his amp ever sounded.
That said, I'm not really that into the super dry gain tone that it's famous for. On the MkV I usually end up on the Extreme gain mode instead.
Posted by: klasaine May 9 2014, 01:37 AM
None of the Mk series have the 'fizzy' high end in the overdrive. *My .22 (low pwr mk.1) absolutely screams.
Remember, the mk series are the amps that Santana was one of the first to use (after he had one of the super modded princetons). Love him or hate, his OD tone is definitely FAT not fizz.
*They were birthed from super hot-rodding Vibro Champs and Princetons with bigger transformers, conversion to 6l6 tubes, using/converting the verb and trem sections of those amps to be cascaded pre-amp gain sections and then usually adding a mid boost and 12" EV speaker.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/our_story.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=first+mesa+boogie+princeton+amp&es_sm=119&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NiJsU6jNL8n_oQTNlYCYAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw&biw=1440&bih=702
I believe this may be #1 (?)
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 9 2014, 02:15 AM
Now that you mention it, I have come across many folks saying that same thing. Even petrucci himself. Evidently the MKV does a great job of sounding as good as if not better than the MKIIC+ but adds some additional tones not found on the IIC+.
Also, it seems like the MKV might be a bit easier to get hold of as the MKII gets more and more rare and more and more expensive each year.
Has your MKV given you any trouble?
That said, I'm not really that into the super dry gain tone that it's famous for. On the MkV I usually end up on the Extreme gain mode instead.
Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 9 2014, 02:23 AM
Nah, I've never had any issues with any Mesa gear that I've owned. Bulletproof, in my experience.
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 9 2014, 02:27 AM
It even looks likes the same knob spacing!!! I am a bit shocked that the monster mesa is based on a fender champ? Who would have thought? I thought it was an original creation but the deeper I look in to it, it seems many monster amps started life as something else.
The BOGNER high gain amps evidently started life as hot rodded versions of other amps that bogner used to work on. I guess it does make sense. It's often easier to mod something than build it from scratch!! The HENESY VENOM comes to mind It's actually a HEAVILY modified LOTUS EXIGE!!!! So not technically a "production" vehicle. Don't know how I switched on to cars. hmm.
Venom ($1,000,000 yup one million)
Lotus (well under $100,000, one tenth the cost of the venom)
Remember, the mk series are the amps that Santana was one of the first to use (after he had one of the super modded princetons). Love him or hate, his OD tone is definitely FAT not fizz.
*They were birthed from super hot-rodding Vibro Champs and Princetons with bigger transformers, conversion to 6l6 tubes, using/converting the verb and trem sections of those amps to be cascaded pre-amp gain sections and then usually adding a mid boost and 12" EV speaker.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/our_story.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=first+mesa+boogie+princeton+amp&es_sm=119&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NiJsU6jNL8n_oQTNlYCYAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw&biw=1440&bih=702
I believe this may be #1 (?)
Good point
There are plenty of shops in town that could fix it up I"m sure. No it was called Saturn Music or something. Jupiter something . . . .Something spacey. Not Mars.
There's a chain in the building it used to be in. Can't think of what that chain is either.
Geez, my memory is selective. Can't tell you about my home town, but could tell you each year Zeppelin released an album.
Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 9 2014, 03:28 AM
Everything came from Fender. The Marshall JTM was also based on a Bassman.
Posted by: klasaine May 9 2014, 03:51 PM
Guitar amps are relatively simple things and they're all 'basically' the same - even today.
The really cool thing that Randall Smith (Mr. Mesa) came up with was how to add gain stages to the pre-amp section and then also control those new pre-amp gain stages via separate volume controls. Basically having multiple master volumes.
At this point though a Boogie mk.V looks NOTHING like a vibro champ
Posted by: SeeJay May 9 2014, 11:19 PM
what do ya know, a Mesa Mark II C+ combo just popped up in my area.
MUST
NOT
BUY
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 11 2014, 04:16 AM
God Bless Mr Mesa!!! And thank goodness for multiple gain stages!!!
Also, thanks to you amp guys for all the info!!!
The really cool thing that Randall Smith (Mr. Mesa) came up with was how to add gain stages to the pre-amp section and then also control those new pre-amp gain stages via separate volume controls. Basically having multiple master volumes.
At this point though a Boogie mk.V looks NOTHING like a vibro champ
Posted by: SeeJay May 11 2014, 04:29 AM
Now a Mark V popped up on CL.
You guys are making me antsy. . .
Posted by: klasaine May 11 2014, 08:34 AM
IMO any of the mk. series is going to be a great amp.
Posted by: SeeJay May 11 2014, 11:26 PM
What about newer Mesa's? What are you guys into?
Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 12 2014, 06:51 AM
I've been through a lot of amps. The Mk V is probably going to be my last one for a long, long time.
Posted by: klasaine May 12 2014, 04:47 PM
I agree that the Mark V is probably best of the newer Mesas. Lone Star series is pretty cool too.
Posted by: SeeJay May 12 2014, 04:57 PM
What kind of speaker do you think suits these amps? I always come back around to something with Vintage 30s in it. just work well with modern stuff.
Posted by: SixStringSamurai May 12 2014, 07:53 PM
Yeah, V30s for me.
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 13 2014, 11:47 PM
Have you ever tried a 4x10 bass cab with it or an 8x10? I got the idea from my 11r patches as that's what cab I use so I tried it in a store with a recto. They looked at me pretty funny when I asked to patch it up
I backed waaaaayyy off on the bass eq and pushed the mid and highs and WOW. Even at low volume it was pushing enormous amounts of air and sounded just amazing.
I was actually a bit shocked at how good it was. I thought it was just going to work in emulation but nope
Posted by: klasaine May 14 2014, 12:41 AM
I use a Marshall 4x10 quite a bit. Pushes a ton of air yet is actually manageable to carry around to clubs. I've even fit into my wife's Ford Fiesta (w/head, pedal board and two guitars).
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 14 2014, 01:44 AM
SPOT ON!!! After copious research, I came to the same conclusion. it started with looking in to the MARK IIC+ of course, but after much googling, it seems the MARK V will do everything the "Grail IIC+" will do and wads more. I added it to my "Guitar Bucket List" That list is getting longer every day!!
Well spifff!!! Do you have some pictures and sound clips by chance? Love to see/hear it
Posted by: klasaine May 14 2014, 02:36 AM
In regard to the aforementioned 4x10" cab.
I do have a picture.
The only clip I have of it is within a finished track. No effects other than probably(?) a little reverb, mastering EQ and comp. *It sounds like what it sounds like and how I play.
All the electric guitars, cleaner and dirty are through it. I can't remember what head I used.
Mics were a 57 and probably a RODE condenser. Small iso booth (converted closet). Recorded in Logic.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3/riys
The 'biggest' guitar part comes in at 3:58
*I have to say this ... the above is copywrighted and released material.
Posted by: SeeJay May 14 2014, 04:35 AM
Cute.
What kind of speakers are in it?
I do have a picture.
The only clip I have of it is within a finished track. No effects other than probably(?) a little reverb, mastering EQ and comp. *It sounds like what it sounds like and how I play.
All the electric guitars, cleaner and dirty are through it. I can't remember what head I used.
Mics were a 57 and probably a RODE condenser. Small iso booth (converted closet). Recorded in Logic.
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3/riys
The 'biggest' guitar part comes in at 3:58
*I have to say this ... the above is copywrighted and released material.
Posted by: klasaine May 14 2014, 05:50 AM
What kind of speakers are in it?
G10L-30/35 (they're labelled one or the other but apparently are the same speaker) for 140 watts.
Sort of he 10" version of a vintage 30.
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 14 2014, 09:44 PM
Is it a guitar or bass cab? I was wondering if anyone else tried a bass cab 4 or 8 x10? I know it sounds odd But man did it crush!!
Sort of he 10" version of a vintage 30.
Posted by: SeeJay May 14 2014, 09:53 PM
There's a Mark V on CL at for $1500. Seems like a decent deal. Bet I could talk him down to 1200/1300
Posted by: klasaine May 15 2014, 01:10 AM
But man did it crush!!Ah, sorry. Didn't realize you were talking about a 'bass' cabinet. (I re-read it just now - duh)
Mine is a guitar cab ... nevermind. Disregard previous post
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