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> Nuc Pc, Anyone got any thoughts?
Phil66
post Aug 11 2019, 11:15 AM
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Hello folks, I'm thinking of upgrading my music laptop. I don't really need a laptop but I don't have room for a second desktop tower. I've come across these and wonder what your thoughts are.

Any advice/opinions gratefully received, thanks.

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/p...s-kits/nuc.html

I would likely purchase from HERE something like THIS spec but with 512gb SSD and 32gb ram.

I just want to be able to swap it with my laptop, for the record, my laptop only has 3 usb ports and an hdmi out.

It needs to come in at around £850 before tax.

Thanks in advance of your help, I keep wondering if I'm missing something that is staring me in the face as to why I can't just swap it over, obviously there will be the set up but I'm hoping there is some quick way of cloning the hard drive from one to the other, somehow, maybe huh.gif

Cheers

Phil


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 12 2019, 12:28 AM
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This one of the NUC mini PCs is just about in the price range at $895. 16gb ram but can go up to .
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/p...uc8i7bekqa.html

Should service your needs and not take up too much space. smile.gif

For just a pinch more money you can get a killer ASUS 17inch laptop with a 6 core intel chip and much better graphics processer. Intel integrated graphics are notoriously lame. It's about a grand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTNG5FJ/ref=ps...1_t2_B07CD3MRZFhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTNG5FJ/ref=ps...1_t2_B07CD3MRZF
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You can find plenty of laptops for that price.
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 11 2019, 06:15 AM) *
Hello folks, I'm thinking of upgrading my music laptop. I don't really need a laptop but I don't have room for a second desktop tower. I've come across these and wonder what your thoughts are.

Any advice/opinions gratefully received, thanks.

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/p...s-kits/nuc.html

I would likely purchase from HERE something like THIS spec but with 512gb SSD and 32gb ram.

I just want to be able to swap it with my laptop, for the record, my laptop only has 3 usb ports and an hdmi out.

It needs to come in at around £850 before tax.

Thanks in advance of your help, I keep wondering if I'm missing something that is staring me in the face as to why I can't just swap it over, obviously there will be the set up but I'm hoping there is some quick way of cloning the hard drive from one to the other, somehow, maybe huh.gif

Cheers

Phil
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Phil66
post Aug 12 2019, 06:24 AM
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Thanks Todd

Do you think a laptop will be better value? I'm just thinking I'm paying for a screen that I don't need, my current laptop goes to my main monitor.

Cheers

Phil


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Mertay
post Aug 12 2019, 10:34 AM
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Maybe you should post in a computer forum. Your finding seems quite new while Todd's option has the word "gaming" in it which usually scares me biggrin.gif


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Phil66
post Aug 12 2019, 11:58 AM
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Hmmmm, I know I want 3ghz cpu quad core and at least 16gb ram, not worried about graphics as it will only be doing my music based stuff, I have a home built tower for other stuff. I just like the size of these NYC computers.


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Mertay
post Aug 12 2019, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 12 2019, 10:58 AM) *
Hmmmm, I know I want 3ghz cpu quad core and at least 16gb ram, not worried about graphics as it will only be doing my music based stuff, I have a home built tower for other stuff. I just like the size of these NYC computers.


There are arguments on web suggesting the graphics card has a role in gaining lesser computer latency; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-compu...comparison.html

Gaming computers usually have boosts for cpu which can be a potential nightmate for recording stability.

So thats why I suggest asking to a music computer based forum.


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Phil66
post Aug 12 2019, 01:56 PM
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Cheers, I'll look for one smile.gif


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Phil66
post Aug 12 2019, 08:38 PM
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Posted here https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discu...de-time-402562/

smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 13 2019, 12:57 AM
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The "Gaming" laptops (seems to scare Mertay for some reason) typically have higher performance specs than "non gaming" laptops. They are machines that typically outlast their non gaming brethren as they usually have some of the best/fastest hardware available.

I too plug my laptop in to a 50 inch HD monitor. I don't typically use the laptop screen. However, it can be handy to have a screen that is attached to the machine itself in various scenarios. For example, if you do need to move the unit for whatever reason at some point, it's self contained. Also if you do need a secondary monitor (E.G. a output monitor for editing video so that you can use the main monitor for actual editing. Also, it is only a bit more expensive than the NUC box and it's got WAY better specs especially for graphics. For video editing, having a good graphics card is very important. The integrated graphics in most one piece box computers are CRAP as they are typically intended to be used as a media computer for playback, not as production machines for heavy lifting. But it's up to you in the end to get whatever you feel comfy with. Or if the word gaming scares you like Mertay, then avoid gaming machines smile.gif

If I were to get a one piece unit I would probably get a Mac Mini. it can run window or mac osx and has solid hardware.

Then again, you can get a used macbook pro (which is what I used) and also run windows or Mac osx. My quad i7 16gm ram 1tb sst was only $700 and LOGIC was $200 so I had a Pro Quality machine with the same software used in many pro shops all over the world for under $1,000. IT would be 750 pounds. But some folks are just not "mac people" and don't want to learn a new OS and a new DAW so if that's you, just grab a powerful gaming laptop as they are typically just more beefy and can be more upgradable, have better graphics, etc.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 12 2019, 01:24 AM) *
Thanks Todd

Do you think a laptop will be better value? I'm just thinking I'm paying for a screen that I don't need, my current laptop goes to my main monitor.

Cheers

Phil


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 13 2019, 01:06 AM
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Mertay
post Aug 13 2019, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 12 2019, 11:57 PM) *
The "Gaming" laptops (seems to scare Mertay for some reason) typically have higher performance specs than "non gaming" laptops. They are machines that typically outlast their non gaming brethren as they usually have some of the best/fastest hardware available.


If a typical system is a brand sports car, gaming computers are more like modified Japanese cars so its not as simple as more power is better:

Fan noise; Its not like in a desktop you can fit a bigger fan to reduce noise, gaming laptops generate way more heat (cause of overclocking) so this can be a real issue.

Overclock (turboboost); Overclocking has a risk of stability even for playing games, when recording if it activate/de-activates you're basically screwed. It's something to seriously consider or avoid specifically for music production, likely all computers branded gaming has this feature.

Graphics card; A decent one is needed even for music specific computers, with gaming though not only you get one you'll never use its potential but it will generate unnecessary heat or extra fan noise (no fan vs 2-3 fans for graphics card).

Bundled software; To manage this overclocked system extra software is needed means the system uses extra ram you could have use for production. Disabling them is riskier compared to a normal operating system, often bios adjustments needed and anything can go wrong.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Aug 13 2019, 10:38 AM


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Phil66
post Aug 13 2019, 10:59 AM
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Thanks Mertay,

My main reasons for the upgrade are speed of video rendering, I know my videos are usually small but when time is tight it will help, and the other thing is, I'd like to try Helix Native again, it was terrible on this machine, cracking and popping and loads of latency.

Cheers

Phil


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Phil66
post Aug 13 2019, 06:10 PM
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How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/m...-laptop-core-1/



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Mertay
post Aug 13 2019, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 13 2019, 05:10 PM) *
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/m...-laptop-core-1/


Reputation of company seems very good, some bad posts about them on forums but I consider normal. I have no idea though about how their pricing compares to a comparable different brand. Since it will be the first time you'll buy from them, just incase check their return policy too.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 14 2019, 08:13 AM
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looks like mertay has you sorted. Let us know what you end up getting!

BTW the reason folks often grab gaming laptops is the better video card gpu helps in editing and exporting video. A good gaming laptop, from a reputable vendor is as stable as any non gaming laptop, just faster at editing/exporting video and faster in general. Then again, it may be just more machine that you need. The one you found build by carillion I think it was is probably just fine.smile.gif I can say that my dual core integrated graphics macbook air is CRAP compared to my quad i7 16gb ram and nvidia graphics card. The faster machine is 7 years old and still keeps pace with modern software. But it's nearing the end of the line. 32 gb ram and 6 core chip are going to become standard for production machines as a sort of min spec.

[ . =quote name='Phil66' date='Aug 13 2019, 01:10 PM' post='770393']
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/m...-laptop-core-1/
[/quote]

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 14 2019, 08:38 AM
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Phil66
post Aug 14 2019, 10:13 AM
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Thanks Todd.

I'm in that zone now where I'm thinking "aaaaaaagh".

What to do what to do what to do. Option paralysis will probably stop me buying now laugh.gif


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Mertay
post Aug 14 2019, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 14 2019, 07:13 AM) *
...


GPU I won't argue, its really about the needs but when I assembled my computer at the time specifically looked for a non-fanned option cause didn't care for video/games so avoided extra noise, system drivers and expense. With desktop you can get away with noise by liquid-cooling but for laptop's this has to be given thought, cause unlike a desktop the machine itself is physically closer you and when the time comes cleaning the fan(fans with depending on video card) isn't as easy either.

But for cpu; Theory is about getting the same speed with either a less expensive/weaker CPU by overclocking, or paying more for a non-overclocked newer cpu. In reality this is what the market offers in a nut-shell with gaming vs standard computers (aside video card difference). It's only media company computer's that gets overclocked right from the start but those machines are way out of our budget or needs. You can by the way boost your mac like this too but notice the warning at the end of the video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEWgqw4ykk its not intel turbo boost but gives the idea, this won't switch on/off like turbo boost and screw live playing or recording but you have risks.

I'm also sure this overclocking stuff got better since I looked into things deep last time I was in the market but still consider it a (not hardware but system stability) risk. Companies simply don't care much about low latency audio recording when combining hardware or developing various models for the market. We have to be more careful than the average joe.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 14 2019, 09:13 AM) *
What to do what to do what to do. Option paralysis will probably stop me buying now laugh.gif


Also ask this forum, its very active; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-compu...thread-292.html

This post has been edited by Mertay: Aug 14 2019, 04:04 PM


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post Aug 14 2019, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 13 2019, 06:10 PM) *
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/m...-laptop-core-1/

I have a gaming laptop and it does exactly what Mertay said And I never knew why, it has the same specs as this one however it looks like there is no boost and is set up for music in mind rather than gaming . The one I have does not have thunderbolt connection and I am mad that I spent that much money and don;t have that option . More and more units are coming out with thunderbolt and I would look for the same model with thunderbolt
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 15 2019, 03:26 AM
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Just to be clear I"m not suggesting anyone buy an overclocked/overclockable machine for music. Never have never will. Those systems are not meant for music production in general. The only turbo boost I recommend is the Intel built in turbo boost which is just a way for the chip to save energy when not under load, per previous post. wink.gif Phil is recording guitar, mostly direct. So having a cpu fan is not gonna be a deal killer imho. If he were recording lots of vocals and needed a hyper quiet record room, then that would be a different story but even then, a small mic isolator would do the trick, so fan noise from a laptop, probably not gonna be an issue.
I did suggest he avoid intel integrated graphics as they are just a big underwhelming. Most any decent laptop these days will offer some kind of video card that's decent built in to it. Most video editing apps lean more and more on the GPU so it's a good way to decrease render time by having a good GPU and a fast CPU.
I would suggest a laptop over a desktop as the price gap has gotten much more narrow than it used to be and I would not suggest phil build a computer from parts. This is a good way to create headaches that can be avoided and warranty work gets tricky as well. A laptop is easy to move, easy to send back to the vendor if need be for repair or upgrade or whatever, and easy to relocate should one wish to record in a different room, different house, whatever. So yeah, I'd say get a decent laptop and for what you are looking to spend, you can get a nice one smile.gif I'd say go with a vendor that you have heard of before as you don't want some small vendor when it's time for warranty work, should warranty work ever come up.

For example, here is a Lenovo Think Pad for $1400 US with quad core i7, 32gb ram, 500 gb ssd and quadro graphics card. Nothing overclocked, no blaring fans as far as the reviews can tell us, just a blazing fast machine. from a reputable vendor.

THINKPAD


QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 14 2019, 10:41 AM) *
GPU I won't argue, its really about the needs but when I assembled my computer at the time specifically looked for a non-fanned option cause didn't care for video/games so avoided extra noise, system drivers and expense. With desktop you can get away with noise by liquid-cooling but for laptop's this has to be given thought, cause unlike a desktop the machine itself is physically closer you and when the time comes cleaning the fan(fans with depending on video card) isn't as easy either.

But for cpu; Theory is about getting the same speed with either a less expensive/weaker CPU by overclocking, or paying more for a non-overclocked newer cpu. In reality this is what the market offers in a nut-shell with gaming vs standard computers (aside video card difference). It's only media company computer's that gets overclocked right from the start but those machines are way out of our budget or needs. You can by the way boost your mac like this too but notice the warning at the end of the video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEWgqw4ykk its not intel turbo boost but gives the idea, this won't switch on/off like turbo boost and screw live playing or recording but you have risks.

I'm also sure this overclocking stuff got better since I looked into things deep last time I was in the market but still consider it a (not hardware but system stability) risk. Companies simply don't care much about low latency audio recording when combining hardware or developing various models for the market. We have to be more careful than the average joe.



Also ask this forum, its very active; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-compu...thread-292.html
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Phil66
post Aug 15 2019, 08:39 PM
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That looks great Todd, thanks.

I've been looking at this today, what do you think Todd and Mertay?

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/3xs...top-no-firewire

I'd spec a 500gb SSD and 16gb RAM. Scan have been around for a long time and have a good reputation. HERE is the info about their studio computer design.

How do you think it compares to the one I mentioned HERE?

Cheers

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Aug 15 2019, 08:58 PM


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Mertay
post Aug 15 2019, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 15 2019, 07:39 PM) *
...


You've definitely done your homework, awesome smile.gif

Both are reputable companies and likely spec.ed for audio to a point probably we can all learn a thing or two:) so I'll say they seem dependable to me.

I didn't see any problem with your spec.s so its really up to you with the rest of the options at this point.


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