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Lester - Mtp - January
Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 10:23 AM
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Hi Lester, do you agree about JN 6 as your REC take for this month?
Also, I wanna ask if you can record some backing track by yourself - even with just a rhythm guitar, no bass or drums are needed. If yes, we can work about improvisation using the modes you've learned on december. If you can't record a backing track by yourself I will provide some material, of course.

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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 10:49 AM
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Hi Jerry,

JN 6 is fine by me for this months REC, It's a challenge, but I think I can manage smile.gif
I should be able to create my own backingtracks as well.
I have Cubase and EZdrummer, so no problemo.

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 4 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Hi Jerry,

JN 6 is fine by me for this months REC, It's a challenge, but I think I can manage smile.gif
I should be able to create my own backingtracks as well.
I have Cubase and EZdrummer, so no problemo.


Sounds great. Can you create a backing track with a groove of your choice (jazz, funk, rock or whatever you like) with a background G7M chord? If yes, your first assignment is to try to improvise using all the boxes you learned from JN 3.
Remember that:
- on JN 3 you have different boxes starting from the same note, C.
- here you need to connect those boxes starting from a different note for each one. This means that you can improvise using all the boxes you have learned but... G Major/Ionian box starts from the 3rd fret, obviously. A dorian box starts from the 5th fret but you have all the notes to improvise over the G7M chord, yet.
- be careful while using the 4th degree of a Major/Ionian scale, it can be sound a little dissonant over a 7M chord. In this case, try to use the C note as a passing tone only.

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This post has been edited by Jerry Arcidiacono: Jan 4 2010, 03:25 PM


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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 05:55 PM
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Ok, so G7M only, no modulations.
But can we use also the minor modes over a major chord? I think yes, but to make sure smile.gif

And what do you exactly mean with the C as a passing note?

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 4 2010, 05:55 PM) *
Ok, so G7M only, no modulations.
But can we use also the minor modes over a major chord? I think yes, but to make sure smile.gif

And what do you exactly mean with the C as a passing note?


If you play all the boxes in the right positions you will play this SET of notes G-A-B-C-D-E-F#.
G as root means G Major/Ionian, as you should know right now biggrin.gif
Maybe to play an Am7 arpeggio/chord over a G7M chord is not the best choice... try to experiment.
You can use a C note while improvising over a G7M chord, using the G Major/Ionian scale. It's not forbidden by any law!
C as passing note means that you shouldn't play a C note as a quarter - or longer biggrin.gif - note.. Usually a C note moves to the next B (major 3rd of G) or D (perfect 5th of G), very consonant notes with the G7M chord... Please spell the notes of G7M biggrin.gif

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This post has been edited by Jerry Arcidiacono: Jan 4 2010, 06:25 PM
Reason for edit: typo


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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 4 2010, 06:22 PM) *
If you play all the boxes in the right positions you will play this SET of notes G-A-B-C-D-E-F#.
G as root means G Major/Ionian, as you should know right now biggrin.gif
Maybe to play an Am7 arpeggio/chord over a G7M chord is not the best choice... try to experiment.
You can use a C note while improvising over a G7M chord, using the G Major/Ionian scale. It's not forbidden by any law!
C as passing note means that you shouldn't play a C note as a quarter - or longer biggrin.gif - note.. Usually a C note moves to the next B (major 3rd of G) or D (perfect 5th of G), very consonant notes with the G7M chord... Please spell the notes of G7M biggrin.gif


Ok, I get it.
I did know about the root and the set of notes.
I'm thinking: I don't have to use the G7M all the time for the backing, right?
I can create a progression like we did in the JN1 lesson, like G7M, Am7, Bm7, C7M, D7, Em7, f#7/5-, right?

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 4 2010, 07:27 PM) *
I'm thinking: I don't have to use the G7M all the time for the backing, right?


For the first assignment try to improvise over a G7M only! You can use all the neck and this means a lot of work, already.
You can upload a take of 30 - 40 seconds once you're satisfied.

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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 4 2010, 07:44 PM) *
For the first assignment try to improvise over a G7M only! You can use all the neck and this means a lot of work, already.
You can upload a take of 30 - 40 seconds once you're satisfied.


Allright then. smile.gif
I'll get working on it!

BTW. was the board happy with the first MTP month? I really am, I feel I learned a lot from it allready, the only issue was getting started woth recording and such, but it's fixed now smile.gif

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 4 2010, 07:57 PM) *
BTW. was the board happy with the first MTP month? I really am, I feel I learned a lot from it allready, the only issue was getting started woth recording and such, but it's fixed now smile.gif


I didn't received any feedback but I guess everything is ok. It's great to hear that you've learned a lot smile.gif

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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 4 2010, 08:29 PM) *
I didn't received any feedback but I guess everything is ok. It's great to hear that you've learned a lot smile.gif


I quess no news is good news biggrin.gif
Anyways, I'll get working on the assignment, what is my deadline?

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 4 2010, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 4 2010, 09:04 PM) *
I quess no news is good news biggrin.gif
Anyways, I'll get working on the assignment, what is my deadline?


Mmm... let's say January 9. If you can record a video it would be cool, so I can see how you play over different boxes.

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Lester
Jan 4 2010, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 4 2010, 09:20 PM) *
Mmm... let's say January 9. If you can record a video it would be cool, so I can see how you play over different boxes.


Sure, Will we done! smile.gif

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Lester
Jan 8 2010, 11:30 AM
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Hi Jerry,

I was going through the theory of the jazz notes 6 lesson, but I don't fully understand this concept of II-V changes.
Actually this part:

QUOTE
Still not too jazzy, so lets add some extra changes in there, some II-V changes in fact. We then get:

F7 | Bb7 | F7 | Cm F7 |
Bb7 | Bb7 | F7 | Am D7 |
Gm | C7 | F7 | Gm C7 |

These II-V changes, in our key of F would be Gm - C7, you can see we added that in a couple of places in the last 4 bars, and in addition, we added a Cm - F7 change in the 4th bar and the Am - D7 change in the 8th bar - these are in fact II-V progressions, but in a different key that we are using in passing, Bb for the Cm F7 change, and G for the Am D7 change, again to add some harmonic movement - this is an important part of jazz - keeping the chords and keys changing rapidly gives us a far richer backdrop to sketch the lead out against.


I can see where we insert those changes, but why do we do this? and why specifically in these bars? (4th bar, 8th bar,9th & 10th bar, 12th bar)

And also when when finish the progression to the final version: why that way? maybe I don't need to know why, I don't know...maybe just because it sounds good.... smile.gif

One last thing: in the last bars you say that we have a classical turnaround, but what is that? never heard of that before. huh.gif

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Lester
Jan 8 2010, 12:18 PM
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And another thing! tongue.gif

Can I add some notes which I think sound good?
I was using a passing notes in the Gmajor, 1 st position.
I think it sounds good, but I don't know it theoraticly, is that ok?

edit: this is about the improvising over the G7M chord, BTW.
Also, it should be an improvisation, not writing some solo?
Lik: it's something else everytime I play? or can I keep some ideas and licks?

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This post has been edited by Lester: Jan 8 2010, 12:20 PM
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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 8 2010, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 8 2010, 11:30 AM) *
Hi Jerry,

I was going through the theory of the jazz notes 6 lesson, but I don't fully understand this concept of II-V changes.
Actually this part:



I can see where we insert those changes, but why do we do this? and why specifically in these bars? (4th bar, 8th bar,9th & 10th bar, 12th bar)

And also when when finish the progression to the final version: why that way? maybe I don't need to know why, I don't know...maybe just because it sounds good.... smile.gif

One last thing: in the last bars you say that we have a classical turnaround, but what is that? never heard of that before. huh.gif


I don't understand what you're asking. THIS progression is based on "Bird's Blues"...
Pleas READ carefully the text.
I'm quoting here the first part, so you can understand the concept, starting from a simple Blues progression.

In this lesson we are going to take the blues and jazzify it! The blues has a very well known chord progression in the 12 bar blues we all know and love - here we will be giving this a jazzy twist to end up with something that has roots in the blues but sounds a lot more like Jazz.

There are many variations of the 12 bar blues form. Here we will be using a progression which is often called "Bird's Blues" because Charlie Parker - his nickname was "Bird" - used this progression over his "Blues for Alice" standard.

So, let's see the differences.

Here we have a standard 12 bar blues progression - it's in the key of F, using triads only. This is probably the simplest way to build something which sounds bluesy/rock'n'roll

The chords, bar by bar are:

F | % | % | % |
Bb | % | F | % |
C | Bb | F | % |

We can jazz this up a little immedately by using dominant 7 chords in place of the major chords, and we get:

F7 | (Bb7) | F7 | % |
Bb7 | % | F7 | % |
C7 | Bb7 | F7 | (C7) |

The chords shown in the text in brackets are extra chords we slipped in to keep things moving a little more.

Still not too jazzy, so lets add some extra changes in there, some II-V changes in fact. We then get:

F7 | Bb7 | F7 | Cm F7 |
Bb7 | Bb7 | F7 | Am D7 |
Gm | C7 | F7 | Gm C7 |

[...]


QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 8 2010, 12:18 PM) *
And another thing! tongue.gif

Can I add some notes which I think sound good?
I was using a passing notes in the Gmajor, 1 st position.
I think it sounds good, but I don't know it theoraticly, is that ok?

edit: this is about the improvising over the G7M chord, BTW.
Also, it should be an improvisation, not writing some solo?
Lik: it's something else everytime I play? or can I keep some ideas and licks?



I wanna see you playing "inside", you have to learn all the boxes in the right way.
There will be more chances to play "outside", don't worry. You can record everything you want apart of this take, obviously biggrin.gif
I can't really see if you're improvising or you have all things written down and maybe you're adding some mistakes here and there biggrin.gif
Please, improvise as much as you can while recording this take. You don't need to upload a "fake" improvisation. If you're honest with yourself, we can see really what's happening!

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Lester
Jan 8 2010, 03:19 PM
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Ok, I'll play iside the boxes then.
What I meant with the rest of the questions i like a big "why?"

Imagine: I'm starting a composition and try to jazzify the blues...
so, what do I do?

We know that Charlie Parker made the chords dominant 7ths first, I can actually understand that, 7th chord sound jazzy, ok.
But then he uses some II-V changes.

And that's why I ask "why?" I would never think of that, why does this sound jazzy?

Maybe I'm trying to do too much, I don't know.

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 8 2010, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 8 2010, 03:19 PM) *
Ok, I'll play iside the boxes then.
What I meant with the rest of the questions i like a big "why?"

Imagine: I'm starting a composition and try to jazzify the blues...
so, what do I do?

We know that Charlie Parker made the chords dominant 7ths first, I can actually understand that, 7th chord sound jazzy, ok.
But then he uses some II-V changes.

And that's why I ask "why?" I would never think of that, why does this sound jazzy?

Maybe I'm trying to do too much, I don't know.


F7 | Bb7 | F7 | Cm F7 |
Bb7 | Bb7 | F7 | Am D7 |
Gm | C7 | F7 | Gm C7 |

1st ii-V: Cm F7, it moves to Bb7 (already on the first blues progression). You can think about this like a ii-V in the key of Bb, but instead of B7M we have (find) Bb7, still a bluesy chord/sound.
2nd ii-V: Am D7, it moves to Gm.
A simple blues does not have all these chords, so this is the reason about the jazzy sound.
Hope things are more clear now smile.gif

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Lester
Jan 8 2010, 04:29 PM
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yes, things are more clear now.
I'm sorry if I ask a lot of questions, I'm a bit slow to understand things.
and I did read the text well smile.gif

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 8 2010, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE (Lester @ Jan 8 2010, 04:29 PM) *
yes, things are more clear now.
I'm sorry if I ask a lot of questions, I'm a bit slow to understand things.
and I did read the text well smile.gif


I'm glad if you read all the text(s) well biggrin.gif
I don't think you're a bit slow to understand things. Sometimes we need to read a text different times to get the whole concept. If you have the chance to ask the author of the text, it's always better - GMC rules ph34r.gif
Texts on the JN series are basically written by me while Andrew helps fixing my grammar and language errors and adding some extra info, if he need it. So, it's always good for me to review all the concepts. But not too often biggrin.gif

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Lester
Jan 9 2010, 10:27 PM
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From: Zwolle, The Netherlands
Hi jerry,

I was trying to make my backingtrack, but I didn't manage.
I started of with learning all the boxes fluently, didn't start with the backing track yet and now it turns out I don't know how to use ezdrummer.
I tried to import it in cubase, all the forums say I need to upload it in VST instrument, problem is: I can't find that option in my cubase (LE4)
Can you make me a drumtrack? then I'll try to upload my improv tommorow.

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net


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