Do You Believe In A God Or Gods? |
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Jul 3 2010, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 3 2010, 02:42 AM)  Can you tell me who lit the fuse to this big explosion? I can't. Does this prove the existence of God? 
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Jul 3 2010, 04:14 AM
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I consider myself to be a Christian, and I don't believe in the theory of evolution - I view it as a faith based system for reconciling physical questions of origin, but not metaphysical questions pertaining to our experience, such as knowledge, communication, free will, identity over time, the concept of justice and law, the ability to take control of our environment, the problem of the one and the many, identity, love, sadness,... ad infonitem - basically everything that puts the hum in human
 I can't reconcile our exprience with this theory because at its core, it says that everything in our experience is the result of a purely physical reaction to laws of nature. That would eliminate any notion whatsoever of free will, and yet we experience free will - well, at least those of us who aren't determinists ^.^ Determinists have a different problem - condemning any action as immoral when they believe it had to be because it was predetermined by laws of nature. Anyways, if I'm going to have faith in a system, it needs to answer these kinds of question for me, and the Bible basically meets my need. It leaves room for mystery, but we all have some measure of mystery in our thinking to deal with - i.e., how is it possible for God to have always been God, or what does it mean that matter always existed? Questions of original origin will always be a mystery no matter what your belief is. Sorry for the run-on sentences - it's hard for me to write just a little on this topic. Oh, and music! Why do I love music so much? you guys are great - keep rockin Christian A. -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat  |
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Jul 3 2010, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 2 2010, 08:41 PM) You are using the term "theory in the" talk radio interpretation of the word, not the way a real Ph.D scientist uses it. The definition of theory for a scientist is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory" Theory does not have a connotation of being "speculative". And as theories go, Evolution is clearly one of those that is the most solid, the evidence is just so overwhelming, from all corners. Tell me one thing, even one argument with any empirical basis, that disputes evolution in any serious fashion. I know you can't, nobody can, there is no serious argument supported by any evidence. Yes theories are refined or improved on as man progresses, but Evolution is one that is pretty solid at this point, any revisions are going to be pretty minor. It all just fits too tightly. But I know the religious arguments, when all else fails, they just say "God used the blueprint that science has uncovered, he just figured, "why create new genes for the hairless primate with the soul, just economize and use 97% of the same genes I used on Chimpanzees". That means about as much as flapping one's gum's and saying "blub blub blub blub". Theories are based on induction, which means future discoveries can always be uncovered that negate previously held beliefs - you'll recall the world was at one point in time, flat. Point being, majority consensus doesn't yield truth, only reason for believing it to be true. All evidence is interpreted - facts don't speak for themselves, they need context in order to be understood. If you come from the standpoint that everything in our experience is physical only, then you'll never even attempt to interpret the evidence in a metaphysical light - so if the truth is grounded in a metaphysical answer, you'll never arrive at truth because you've precluded it at the outset. Just something to consider. -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat |
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Jul 3 2010, 01:19 PM
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For all who like facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Observational_evidence
However, I don't really think a subject such as are there divine beings out there should be discussed with facts as arguments. These are matters of faith... and even though I don't believe in God, I'm always willing to discuss my and others' beliefs. And I'd like to remind you that evolution and God do not close one another out - evolution and Bible may do that.
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Jul 3 2010, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 3 2010, 06:46 AM) Darwin himself said that the years of fossil records will show his theory to be true, but here we are 120 years later and we have only three our four missing links The problem is that to go from a sea dwelling creature to a land dweller you would need 50,000 distinct species I believe this to be the lack af evidence Just where did you pull these statements from? And Darwin was a lot further back than 120 years, his voyage was at around 1835, 175 years ago. And everybody knows he was in the dark in a certain fashion, he knew nothing of genetics. He was just a pioneer, that is all. Had he collaborated with Mendel, the two between them could have come up with a lot more than they did. You need some serious literature. Some decent books are written by non-Ph.D types, but you have to be careful. There is so much nonsense dissimulated now, it is everywhere. You are best looking for books that are written by actually Scientists or Professor's in the field, because they have to be solid, as they are reviewed and critiqued by their peers. A lay author can say about anything, and the typically do, shamelessly disseminating nonsense. You won't learn anything from TV, really, TV just make you more stupid, the more you watch, no matter what you watch. Ffor a general introduction to science in general, this is decent, and a fun book. Not written by a scientist, but still not bad, close enough to accurate in general to be very useful. It is a few years old, and a few more things have come out of genetics. Genetics is really taking charge now in research, drawing implications from Mitochondria DNA. But still a good introduction to science in general. http://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Nearly...;sr=8-1-catcorr |
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Jul 3 2010, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Jul 3 2010, 03:03 AM) I can't. Does this prove the existence of God? No I was just curious to know. QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 3 2010, 05:41 AM) Tell me one thing, even one argument with any empirical basis, that disputes evolution in any serious fashion. I know you can't, nobody can, there is no serious argument supported by any evidence. And in all fairness, the opposite goes too of course. Proof in all cases, is supposed to support a theory. You simply can't prove something isn't there. As little as you can't provide proof that God doesn't exist and had part in every step of the evolution. -------------------- My bands homepage
All time favourites: B. Streisand - Woman in Love, M. Hopkin - Those were the days, L. Richie - Hello |
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Jul 3 2010, 03:18 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 3 2010, 01:36 PM) Just where did you pull these statements from? And Darwin was a lot further back than 120 years, his voyage was at around 1835, 175 years ago. And everybody knows he was in the dark in a certain fashion, he knew nothing of genetics. He was just a pioneer, that is all. Had he collaborated with Mendel, the two between them could have come up with a lot more than they did. You need some serious literature. Some decent books are written by non-Ph.D types, but you have to be careful. There is so much nonsense dissimulated now, it is everywhere. You are best looking for books that are written by actually Scientists or Professor's in the field, because they have to be solid, as they are reviewed and critiqued by their peers. A lay author can say about anything, and the typically do, shamelessly disseminating nonsense. You won't learn anything from TV, really, TV just make you more stupid, the more you watch, no matter what you watch. Ffor a general introduction to science in general, this is decent, and a fun book. Not written by a scientist, but still not bad, close enough to accurate in general to be very useful. It is a few years old, and a few more things have come out of genetics. Genetics is really taking charge now in research, drawing implications from Mitochondria DNA. But still a good introduction to science in general. http://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Nearly...;sr=8-1-catcorr This is your reply You mock me because i had the dates wrong but what you did was ad 50 years of nothing more to the fossil record- further proving my point but I believe that the origin of species came out in 1859 Please read my post again .I said that this is the best proof that man has yet, but science must not rule something else out based on a theory that can change. and you still have not answered the ? Is it possible to find new information that might prove that we have miscalculated something Please don't be offended- but no one will ever answer this question If you are really interested in my facts ,I will be more than happy to tell you where they come from . It might take a little time though This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jul 3 2010, 03:26 PM |
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Jul 3 2010, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jul 3 2010, 05:54 PM) God works in mysterious ways. We cannot comprehend his ways. He has a purpose for everything. Sometimes those hard times are nothing more but to strengthen our faith. No offence intended, but why would gratuitous death strengthen anybody's faith in God? Do the dying children believe in God when they are dead? Do the parents believe in God when he takes their children away? In my opinion, on the contrary, people lose faith when death occurs for no reason, and in my experience people convert from being strongly religious to being atheist when this incidence of death takes place. How do you know God has a purpose for everything? Do you even know for a *fact* that he exists? There is so much speculation and endless discussion, when the existence of God has yet to be stipulated. This post has been edited by Alexiaden93: Jul 3 2010, 05:55 PM -------------------- My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan Guitars Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS Yamaha Pacifica Amplifier Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts Recording equipment/software Line 6 POD Studio GX Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 Reaper v3.04 Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 |
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Jul 3 2010, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jul 3 2010, 06:57 PM) I take on faith that makes me believe he is real. It is my faith that makes me realize - well, this is a bad thing that has happened. But God has a purpose. I don't know what is it, but that's because God's ways are higher than mine. People who stray through their faith when things go wrong are weak in the faith - I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I don't mean to sound condesending. That's what God's Word teaches. Again, God's Word... I find it odd how religion was introduced to the world after the major revolutions, including the convention of systematic agriculture, basic mathematics and written language. Maybe religion was used as a legislative power in ancient civilisations, such as Rome and Egypt? What better way to maintain order than to threaten with plague, lightning bolts and death? I am not saying religion is a negative institution, despite the endless wars and deaths in the name of religion, it is a binding and motivating force. However, in the year 2010 when countless Biblical incidents have been proven wrong by science, I find religion a somewhat fragile thing to follow. Yes, there is conscience, altruism, but why must all of these good feelings be credited to God? Are human beings not able to decide themselves what is right and wrong? Moreover, if Christians commit the act of decency in the name of Salvation, can't this be interpreted as an act of pure selfishness? Do persuade me, and try to be more specific than "I don't know what it is" or "God's Word". I believe in something that is indisputably *real*. Love and altruism are real. God, on the other hand, can be discussed. -------------------- My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan Guitars Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS Yamaha Pacifica Amplifier Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts Recording equipment/software Line 6 POD Studio GX Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 Reaper v3.04 Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 |
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Jul 3 2010, 07:27 PM
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Religion IMO is a way for the few to control the many......
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Jul 3 2010, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Jul 3 2010, 08:54 PM) Religion is also an easy answer to a very hard question - "how to live". It really takes tons of time and dedication to find ones place in the world with thinking, it is endless times easier to just put few clichés and pretend "everything is clear". Actually, the judiciary system is very much based on religious texts, as the latter were already influential. "Thou shalt not kill" has been transformed into "It is punishable by law to violate the physical integrity of another human being" or something along those lines... In other words, religion is no longer the sole source of justice and order. The concept of religion is no longer as quintessential to the survival of society as it used to be... In my opinion. -------------------- My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan Guitars Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS Yamaha Pacifica Amplifier Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts Recording equipment/software Line 6 POD Studio GX Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 Reaper v3.04 Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 |
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