Rap Isn't Music And Kurt Cobain Can't Play Guitar., Please convince me! |
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Nov 6 2007, 04:18 AM
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Continued from "Overrated Guitarist" topic.
--------------------------------- Here is mine: - I can't stand opera music. The exagerated pronounciation of the lyrics and vibrato makes me feel ill! However - I realise I am probably the problem, so please convince I am wrong (this is the part where I am making sure I am not hurting anyone's feelings) - and recommend me an album!  Kris |
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Nov 6 2007, 04:21 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 5 2007, 10:18 PM)  Continued from "Overrated Guitarist" topic. --------------------------------- Here is mine: - I can't stand opera music. The exagerated pronounciation of the lyrics and vibrato makes me feel ill! However - I realise I am probably the problem, so please convince I am wrong (this the part where I am making sure I am not hurting anyone's feelings) - and recommend me an album! Kris I would argue that the top 5% of ANY genre is worth listening to, identifying the top 5% is the hard bit though. For opera I would start with Carmen - it has some top notch tunes and a reasonable story line  Now, can someone convince me that Reggae is worth listening to ?? 
This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Nov 6 2007, 04:23 AM -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
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Nov 6 2007, 04:40 AM
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QUOTE (lefty01 @ Nov 5 2007, 10:37 PM) I guess my point about rap not being music is this. I have complete respect for ANYONE who actually plays their own instrument. The guys (like us GMC'ers), who spend countless hours on our chosen craft. Not the "musicians", who push a button, get a drum machine loop running, and "speak" into a mic. I have RESPECT for the players who pay their dues with whatever instrument they choose to play. Look at bass playing for example. A lot of pro bass players have been pushed aside for synth bass. It is even worse for drummers. Try to start a band. See how many drummers are available.  Maybe my rant is more about technology taking away "real" musicians, than rap itself. Ok, don't get me wrong, I have no love for rap myself, but in rap, the emphasis is on the rhythm and content of the lyrics, not the musical content ... and yes, some of the best rappers have something to say here as they have been through a creative process themselves, and I can appreciate that even though I don't enjoy the product. -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
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Nov 6 2007, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 5 2007, 09:21 PM) I would argue that the top 5% of ANY genre is worth listening to, identifying the top 5% is the hard bit though. For opera I would start with Carmen - it has some top notch tunes and a reasonable story line Now, can someone convince me that Reggae is worth listening to ?? This is my very favorite Raggae song, enjoy. http://www.all4humor.com/videos/funny-vide...-white-man.html |
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Nov 6 2007, 04:45 AM
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Also opera covers an awful lot of ground - from Montiverdi way up to modern stuff like Thomas Ades. Some I really enjoy whilst some I find too much and even strident: I can quite happily listen to Rusalka, Carmen, Turn of the Screw, Child in our Time, Power Her Face etc but the Ring Cycle just doesn't do it for me. I still listen to it now and then to try to see what I'm missing. As I listen to more I'm building up a better and wider appreciation of the art form - still not enough to enjoy the Ring though but time will tell
 .To some extent I find opera can depend on the singer as well. I can listen to someone like Dawn Upshaw or Anne Sophie von Otter or Renne Fleming but some others leave me cold. That though is my personal taste. It's the same with Rap - some I really enjoy (and I've said this before on a different thread) and really admire the musicianship and the production quality and skills. Same is true of most of the guitar players named in the other thread - I think most/maybe all have recorded something of merit at some point, whether technically or musically or both. Reggae - helps if you're in a club Andrew and the bass (and sub bass) is really hitting you in the chest  . Otherwise, and I'm sure others will say the same, Bob Marley is always a good argument for reggae though I'd also add in Lee Perry and the Ark Studios. Without reggae it's quite possible that a lot of modern recording techniques - particularly where it involves sampling and/or heavy echo- just wouldn't be the same .For me the challenge in my wanting to be a musician is listening to a musical form/musician I'm not used to or don't personally like and trying to understand why others do like it and what may be admirable about it. That, for me, takes a lot more effort then just writing someone/thing off. I'm a long way off that goal but I carry on. (Latest one I'm struggling with is my wife's new fav - the Robert Plant/Alison Krauss collab  . She really likes it so it must have redeeming features to it - errr somewhere ).Cheers, Tony -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com
Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo. |
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Nov 6 2007, 05:01 AM
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QUOTE (lefty01 @ Nov 6 2007, 04:37 AM) I guess my point about rap not being music is this. I have complete respect for ANYONE who actually plays their own instrument. The guys (like us GMC'ers), who spend countless hours on our chosen craft. Not the "musicians", who push a button, get a drum machine loop running, and "speak" into a mic. I have RESPECT for the players who pay their dues with whatever instrument they choose to play. Look at bass playing for example. A lot of pro bass players have been pushed aside for synth bass. It is even worse for drummers. Try to start a band. See how many drummers are available. Maybe my rant is more about technology taking away "real" musicians, than rap itself. Finally someone saying something else than just "rap isn't music, I'm right, you're wrong"! So basically, here's what I have to say.. First of all, rapping is their instrument, and it's not really talking, it's about as much talking as growling is screaming, in some ways it's talking (just like growling has some similarities with screaming) but there's more to it than just a guy talking. The rapper still has to take tones etc, but it's not as much as in "normal" songs, and it's nowhere near symphonic, but it's still music. Music has more things to it than just melody, rythm, pauses, etc. I mean come on, if there are musical pieces that are just silence, then rap would definetly qualify as music. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2276621.stm) Some good rap songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE83vVfKoa0 - Promoe - A Likkle Supm Supm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIL6j0gZab4 - Looptroop - Last Song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bc_0mSydeo - Atmosphere - F*ck You Lucy (oh, and btw, I barely listen to rap at all, I just respect the genre  )
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Nov 6 2007, 05:17 AM
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First of all. Id like to apologize for the mess caused by the topic Overrated Guitarists. I knew there would be some discussions, but i didnt think it was going to get out of control. Again, i apologize, Kris, and the moderating team.
Also, im sure i DID NOT bashed Cobain, how could i bash the person who invented and wrote the songs i used to play over and over when i was a beginner and made me so proud of myself? and not only that, but motivated me to keep practicing and reach my current level?. QUOTE (lefty01 @ Nov 5 2007, 09:37 PM) I guess my point about rap not being music is this. I have complete respect for ANYONE who actually plays their own instrument. The guys (like us GMC'ers), who spend countless hours on our chosen craft. Not the "musicians", who push a button, get a drum machine loop running, and "speak" into a mic. I have RESPECT for the players who pay their dues with whatever instrument they choose to play. Look at bass playing for example. A lot of pro bass players have been pushed aside for synth bass. It is even worse for drummers. Try to start a band. See how many drummers are available. Maybe my rant is more about technology taking away "real" musicians, than rap itself. im with you man!!! I totally agree with you. What about US ? who spend hours and hours, years and years playing our instrument. And other people just grab a beat and talk stuff with it and call it music. I know im generalizing alot here, but thats what i think. QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Nov 5 2007, 10:01 PM) I mean come on, if there are musical pieces that are just silence, then rap would definetly qualify as music. i highly doubt that. Imo, Music is the combination of silence,melody and rythm. If its just silence, then i doubt its music. QUOTE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bc_0mSydeo - Atmosphere - F*ck You Lucy lol , thats a nice title for a song.
This post has been edited by FretDancer69: Nov 6 2007, 05:20 AM -------------------- Playing Guitar Since: December 2006 |
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Nov 6 2007, 05:20 AM
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=JUPz3YWXIbI - Nirvana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C2b8XWJnfE - Run DMC http://youtube.com/watch?v=-sbqIyeed4g - Beastie Boys If this is bad music then I guess all music is bad music! 
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Nov 6 2007, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Nov 5 2007, 10:01 PM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bc_0mSydeo - Atmosphere - F*ck You Lucy I'm from Minneapolis as Atmosphere is and they are huge here. Just about everyone in the university here has Atmosphere on their "iPods". |
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Nov 6 2007, 05:29 AM
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One of the more interesting arguments in modern 20th C classical music is about the relative merits of John Cage's 4' 33'. A performance of it is here.
Cards on the table - I love John Cage and the debate about 4 33 is more then what the announcer on the video linked here says .Cheers, Tony -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com
Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo. |
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), damn, I'd love to be somewhere where thay are huge like that.
 
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