Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 14 2021, 01:35 PM

Hi Sumitnxt! Welcome to your mentoring thread!

Please tell me more about you, your guitar goals and ideas for this thread.

Gab.-

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 14 2021, 02:27 PM

Hi Gabriel, thanks for starting this thread. I am mostly a self taught guitarist. I have some rhythm guitar skills as well as some lead guitar skills with both electric and acoustic. I have been playing ( not for an audience but for self entertainment ) for some years and consider myself an intermediate guitarist.

Ok so here is the thing that i want your help with. I want to be able to play simple rhythm tracks. I have plenty such audio tracks that I have gathered and i like to play but problem there is no guitar tablature / chord charts for them. When i hear them i find them very simple tracks. If i had the tablature i can play even more difficult tracks but I feel kind of embarrassed that even after years of guitar playing I am unable to figure out how to play simple rhythm guitar that i hear.

Can we start with this audio track ?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i9l84b96ax0pte2/2.mp3?dl=1
Please help me in improving this particular skill to play what I hear.
PS.
I think i hear a bass guitar and same chord repeating i think. Can i play the whole thing without the bass guitar ? Also i have no idea which chord is that ?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 15 2021, 01:59 PM

Hi Sumit! This is an interesting idea!

The track that you shared includes a guitar that plays both bass lines and chords. The first thing that I recommend you doing is to try to learn the bass line and play along with it. This will give you the sense of rhythm, and it will also "tune" your ears to the track.

The chords played are totally related to the bass notes played, so once you have the bass line, you should have more clues on where to search.

Are you able to tab the bass line?

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 17 2021, 03:23 PM

Hi Gab,
I have tried to simulate the sound using single notes on my guitar.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kus1s9e3u2bf3c/myVersion1.wav?dl=1

My notes are
E13 | E14 | E15 | G15 | E15 | E15 | G15
E15 | E14 | E13 | G15 | E13 | E13 | G15
E5 | E8 | E4
E7 | E13 | E14 | E15
E5 | E8 | E5

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 17 2021, 09:18 PM

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 18 2021, 03:59 PM

Hi Gab,

Sorry for not communicating the Tabs properly. I will figure better way to write the tablature next time.

In case you'd like to know what I was trying to communicate with the notes i wrote you can read this paragraph or else just skip it. E13 | E14 | E15 | G15 here E means the 6th String the Low E. 13, 14 are the passing notes and 15 is the root note . Then G15 is 3rd string 15th fret . This note represents sound of the chord. Also the next line means next part of the song.

Ok so - So some notes I hear from you.

1. I should try to focus on the main chords i.e. the root notes. Passing notes are replaceable.
2. Get familiar with Dominant Blues - dominant chord and dormant arpeggios and the notes it involves.
3. The key of this song is A.

I am next going to follow your suggestion and also in my next post I would try to play the Rhythm Track again with the right notes and right chords.

I think this video should help me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4PVuIAIs-A

Thanks and see you again soon.

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 19 2021, 08:58 AM

Hi Gabriel, Can you take a listen to this one ?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7x2ewkypywsmx0/MyVersion2.wav?dl=1

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 19 2021, 01:58 PM

Hi mate!

Good job! The new audio sounds perfect. These are the right chords, and bass lines.

Here you can read about blues theory:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=50470

Section 2.1 explains dominant blues.

This lesson covers dominant chords: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Dominant-7-Chords/

And this one shows dominant arpeggio boxes: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/dominant-7th-arpeggio-boxes/

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 20 2021, 09:37 AM

Hi Gab, I am working on figuring out the notes of this audio next.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t0c7f65rt24j1gi/rv30rhl-001.mp3?dl=1

This one does not have a chord, just the bass line.

I think i figured out the beginning half of the bass line, just working on the 2nd half.

By the way what do you think of key / arpeggio / chords here ?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 20 2021, 01:58 PM

Cool! We are in a similar style here. This is a blues turnaround in G. This means that we are moving from the V to the I chord. The V is D and the I is G.


The bass line again is around the dominant arpeggios and passing notes.

Once you learn the bass line, it would be useful to identify the dominant arpeggios so you can experiment with your own blues bass lines.

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 22 2021, 01:25 PM

Hi Gab,
How does this sound ?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cyjw450z6x5fx9/AudioFile2_Simulated1.wav?dl=1

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 22 2021, 02:52 PM

Hi mate!

You did a killer job! There is only 1 wrong note. Check out if you can find it. If not, I'll tell you.

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 22 2021, 04:33 PM

Is it this ? I have changed one A note in middle to F#.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oswu95v2u0f7rh8/Audio2Similulation2.wav?dl=1

If not please give the answer.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 22 2021, 05:36 PM

No, the wrong note was the A note that you play on the 6th string just before playing G on the 6th as well. That note is a B.

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 22 2021, 07:12 PM

Oh Yeah, Just for final confirmation please check if all is well here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc3b25alm3u9dh7/Audio2Simulation3.wav?dl=1

Also Gab, I want to learn how to add chords correctly as a backing to this bassline . I have tried to add G D C chords but it doesn't sound all that good . please guide me on this as well
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7mc8f0218dz76x/Audio2Simulation4.wav?dl=1

thanks,
sumit

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 26 2021, 07:22 PM

Yes! It's perfect now. Good job!





It's not working with these chords. The first thing that you need to do is to identify the roots. As I said before, this bass lines are build using dominant arpeggios. Have you worked on them? Knowing the arpeggios will help you to identify them in these lines, and it will make it easier to add the chords.

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 27 2021, 12:09 AM

Hi Gab,
I have a confession to make, i get very nervous with music theory and concepts. I will try to learn theory very cautiously so please bear with me.

Please check if my understanding is correct.

My understanding is that first thing that comes is the key of the melody Am i right ?

For the bassline I am studying, you mentioned this

so for reference purpose here are the notes and their scale degrees in Gmajor scale


Image Source: https://ibb.co/sVxyn81

Next we derive chords from the scale by using formulas.
This chart gives formula of various types of chords


Image Source: https://ibb.co/8xwPJzx

The chart shows four types of dominant chords and the formula that creates them.
An arpeggio is formed by the notes of the chords.

G7 Arpeggio Notes: G - B - D - F
Dominant 7th Arpeggio Intervals: 1 - 3 - 5 - b7

Image Source: https://ibb.co/6PJTRfS

Also since the scale type is blues
12 BAR BLUES IN G

Image Source: https://ibb.co/z2gM4N5

So this is my understanding.
Can you guide me now ? What should I understand next to achieve the goal of finding the right chords for the bassline that I am studying?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Dec 28 2021, 10:03 PM

Posted by: sumitnxt Dec 29 2021, 09:56 PM

Hi, Gab
thanks for video. things are much more clearer thanks to your great explanation.

Along with working on backing tracks simulation idea, I am going to work on learning about dominant chords and arpeggios starting with the
lessons you suggested below

Also since the 4 dominant arpeggio notes are part of 7 mixolydian notes I will also work on learning the mixolydian patterns



==========================================================================

While I do practice on these lessons continuing to the original backing track Idea, here is the third Audio Track in series.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbcowfofjmcn8ac/jmbbrs-012.mp3?dl=1

I have tried to simulate the sound using single notes only ( i wasn't comfortable adding the chords like the orignal track )

Here are my notes on the Audio File 3 Track by attempting to simulate the sound on my guitar

1. It is 12 bar blues in the keys of A ( I chord = A7, IV chord = D7, V chord = E7 )
2. The dominant arpeggios chart below helps get bassline of the track


Image Source : https://ibb.co/KzfmXcb

3. Here is my try on the simulation of the sound of the Audio file 3 track

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbxu5o8hortifju/Audio3Simulation1.wav?dl=1

4. Please let me know if these are the right notes and also guide me how to include chords to make it sound like original


thanks and happy new year,

sumit

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 3 2022, 02:12 PM

Hi mate, nice rhythm!

The theory that you explained is right, but your audio is not precise yet. Before trying to learn the chord you need to get a more precise version of the riff. Try it using the open strings. Start with the open A string and notice that the following two notes are a hammer on from fret 3 to fret 4 on the 5th string.

Play it and try to continue learning the following parts by ear.

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 5 2022, 01:52 PM

Hi gab,
I am simulating only the first repeating part of the riff.
Do any of these versions have correct notes ?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkwqjqhm314h9gb/Audio3Sumulation2.wav?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz6clxqsqlczksd/Audio3Simulation3.wav?dl=1

Orignal Audio file 3 is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbcowfofjmcn8ac/jmbbrs-012.mp3?dl=1

if not can you please correct these parts, so that I can attempt the rest of the riff.
Also I have a question If these versions have correct notes why are they are deviating from the notes of A7 arpeggio.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 6 2022, 01:58 PM

Hi mate, you are close, but it's not perfect. This is the right riff:




The extra note is the 3rd fret on the 5th string (minor third of A). This note is used as a passing note but this is still a dominant blues. The riff is around A dominant. You can also see this as A mixolydian. In blues context, it's normal to add the minor third so both the minor and major third coexist and give the bluesy sound.

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 7 2022, 09:41 PM

Hi Gab,

Hi As per your notes I have tried to simulate the full riff with single note playing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/icpdna03qrmypkj/audio3Simulation3Full.wav?dl=1

Orignal Audio file 3 is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbcowfofjmcn8ac/jmbbrs-012.mp3?dl=1

If this sounds fine can you guide my study now about how to make it sound like the orignal ?

====================================

This is giving me another idea. Can you also guide me on transforming single note melodies to more impactful by replacing some single notes with chords ?

E.g. How about this melody as an exercise? ( I don't remember where I have heard this tune. Gab, have your heard this melody before ? )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ak3zbs34d6g29pm/SingleNoteExcercise1.wav?dl=1

If this melody is not an ideal example for this exercise please feel free to replace with some melody of your own choice ?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 9 2022, 04:00 PM

Yes, this sounds closer. Sometimes the second repetition (the one that connect with the chord change) has a small variation. Try to find out what's happening.

Then, you need to add the double string thing that it's happening. This is simple, the root of each chord is added to the riffing note to get the double stop sound. Does it make sense?





yes! I've heard this melody before! Could you please share a musical example of what you'd like to learn?

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 9 2022, 06:40 PM

Hi Gab,

Here is a musical example of what i want to learn.

Basically sometimes simple melody by itself sounds dull e.g. this is a simple melody

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwgpkkz1anx82z1/input.mp3?dl=1

I want to learn the skill to transform such a simple melody into something like this. ( Has chords )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/70fkdagt0yfe6vq/output.mp3?dl=1

So to summarise a simple melody is dynamically improved by some chords in middle but maintaining two points
1. basic tune can be still be heard
2. it can still be played using one guitar

Can we do this excercise using this melody that i have chosen from https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Sailing-Sailing/

it sounds like this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w8mlef0zkbckh2/SailingSailingJavier.wav?dl=1

===================================================


Yes it makes sense. I will work on it.

thanks,

sumit

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 10 2022, 04:04 PM

Cool! This course covers everything you need to know to be able to do this, so let's get into it: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/lessonseries/Songwriting-Essentials/

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 14 2022, 03:08 PM

Hi Gab,
This is another take of mine trying to get the feel of the Audio3 rhythm track https://www.dropbox.com/s/esp99hh1vxdvsyk/Audio3Simulation4.wav?dl=1
Orignal Audio file 3 is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbcowfofjmcn8ac/jmbbrs-012.mp3?dl=1

Regarding the chords
___________________

Thanks for the tip that the chords we are hearing are basically diads with root note . I get that but i need one more help. My ears are hearing the chords at so many places in the riff that i am getting overwhelmed in deciding at which timings during the riff should i play a diad instead of a single note . can you help me with that ?

==============================================



Yes thats a great course, I am working on it at my own pace. thanks, will let you know soon if I have any doubts.

thanks,
sumit

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 18 2022, 03:12 PM

Hi mate! Good job with the new take. The groove and dynamics are much better now. Well done!

Do you have any software that allow you to slow down audio? If not, I recommend you to download https://www.videolan.org/. Try if you can find where the roots are added by ears at slower tempos and let me know what happens.

And please keep me updated about your status with the course!

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 21 2022, 08:54 PM

Hi Gabriel,
I felt like starting my work on improvisation as a beginner. I found a course by you on the GMC . I think that course is really old so the webcam links USTREAM are not working anymore. but still the theory is pretty good. Also I found good stuff by Andrew and Pedja which i am reading.
One reason I have stayed away from improvisation is I though that there were just two many patterns to remember if you consider Each Mode, Blues, Pentatonics.

I understand that these patterns have to be practiced so much that you can create licks and runs on the fly while playing to a backing track.

But I am going to give it a go by limiting myself with mastering 2-3 pentatonic shapes and practicing chord tones also . This should allow me to play music , improve on improvisation skills without getting too overwhelmed with too many number of scales, modes and arpeggios .

So to begin with I am starting with 3 connecting shapes of Am Pentatonic




I have one question , There are plenty of resources including GMC lessons that teach pentatonic licks. How useful is learning thsese ? do you think I should learn licks to make my improvisation sound better or should I skip them and work on creating my own licks on the fly which i believe i would be able to do if i keep practicing thoroughly with these 3 patterns for a week ?

Also I will continue with the Songwriting Course and the Backing Track Simulation Idea soon because i really think i was making good progress with ear training.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 23 2022, 09:54 PM

Hi mate,

Cool! Yes, I remember that course and I can say that I took is as a base to build my recent Lead Basics courses.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/lessonseries/Lead-Basics/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/lessonseries/Lead-Basics-Level-2/

So I think that you can use these two ones as an introduction and complement to the program that you found at my board.

The lead basic courses include recommended lessons. I think that you can combine the concepts covered in the course with the lessons suggested there in order to incorporate licks to your vocabulary.

Start working on it, share your progress here, and I'll guide you.

Posted by: sumitnxt Jan 23 2022, 10:01 PM

thanks gabriel,
Can you answer one query if you're still online ?

I find that I am facing an issue as a beginner improviser.
I seem to not pick the preferable phrases when i am playing on the fly

to make it clear here is a small comparision

this is a less prefered phrase
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cs6dyo6036yu6g6/MyVersion2.wav?dl=1

this is a more preferred phrase
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sj6s9pj6ci9d2j/MyVersion2-001.wav?dl=1

what can i do to make this better ?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 23 2022, 10:20 PM

Hi again!

Nice question! I think that it's a combination of things. The first one is how much your ear is related to your mind and your fingers. If you are trained enough to play what you hear in your mind, your phrases will be more accurate to what you want to hear. This means that you need to practice and work on this connection by playing and singing the notes that you play so you connect your mind with your fingers & guitar.

Besides this, knowing the fretboard and choosing specific intervals over each chord will also help you to get more precise phrases and sounds. For example, the thirds of the chords usually are very sweet and will give you better results than targeting a 4th. This is off course much more advanced, and I don't recommend you to put too much work on this now, but following the chords with triads is a good way to start.

Finally, there are tricks that can help us to sound more melodic... one of the most common is to play melodies using only 1 string. Try it, and you'll be surprised of the power of this small concept.

The shortest answer is "Practice". Improvisation is a skill, and requires practice.

Posted by: sumitnxt Feb 6 2022, 09:44 PM

Hi Gabriel,
here is my first improvisation.


I added some effects mainly to avoid making it too boring
Please give your guidance. I really need it.

thanks,
sumit

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 7 2022, 03:36 PM

Nice! Your phrasing is tasting mate.

One of the things that you need to work is your motif development. There are some very interesting phrases that are lots because they don't connect with other stuff. You need to make use of the repetition, variation and call and response tools to give your solo a direction, and evolution.

For example, the phrase at 02:17 is beautiful. You need to be able to identify that it's a cool phrase when you are improvising and repeat it, maybe with a small variation, or maybe play a response and then play the same melody with another response.

Imagine that this is a conversation (in this case with yourself).


Also, I'd like to hear your guitar a bit louder in the mix.


What about giving it another shot with this concept in mind?

Posted by: sumitnxt Feb 20 2023, 06:08 PM

Hi gabriel, how are you.
It has been about an year.
I have been practicing some stuff on my own.
I need your help with something specific again.

First let me give you the context.
please watch this small clip from someone's cover of master of puppets solo
https://streamable.com/3ce1tm
The tablature for this portion is https://i.ibb.co/Zzd2SPN/tabs-master.png

In the video you can see there are two types of right hand picking techniques that she is using. the first part where she
uses her wrists movements. and second part where she keeps her wrist frozen straight and the movement is done with the forearm.

the technique in first part is how i usually play. i.e i alway use my wrist movements to alternate pick.
Now I am not sure, but I believe the technique in later part is used to generate fast speed when not changing strings frequently.

I want to learn this second technique. because i have been working on this lesson https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Alternate-Picking-Workout-1/?part=1 and have been struggling with high speed 16th notes picking in the lesson.

I think learning this new technique will help me pick faster.

Can you train me to pick like that because I have been playing in a certain way for so long that learning to play this way seems difficult on my own.

thanks,
sumit