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Posted by: JTaylor May 30 2012, 12:13 AM

What in the heck is shredding? If it is playing fast, why would anyone stop doing it? (I, fortunately, have never had this problem! )

Posted by: Dinaga May 30 2012, 12:14 AM

Hahahaha, I love these topics

Why would anyone stop it? Well because it sounds like thrash if overdone!
Let me include a related image:

Posted by: Opetholic May 30 2012, 07:53 AM

Hahaha this logic chart is awesome
My question is after what speed playing starts to be shredding? I want to have a very quantitative definition of this

Posted by: PosterBoy May 30 2012, 08:21 AM

I think it's note choice as well as speed.

Shredding tends to be about but not exclusively scales, patterns and arpeggios being played very fast, that's what I've glean anyway

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer May 30 2012, 09:55 AM

Above 120 bmp is where playing turns into shredding.. it's same as you're driving on open highway where you have a speed limit of 120 km/h , and if you're adding gas you're breaking that boundary....

Posted by: Ben Higgins May 30 2012, 10:33 AM

I think it's just any busy, fast, lots of notes crammed into short spaces type sections. It's not just rock and metal guitarists either. Jazz, fusion, blues guys are just as guilty !

Posted by: SirJamsalot May 30 2012, 06:59 PM

I asked this question 2 years ago on this forum and i got so much flack for asking, I gave up asking
The politically correct answer, therefore, is "a well played note is 100x better than a 100 notes played to fast to hear!"

But I'm not politically correct, so here's a few tests in quantifiable terms. People can post their opinion on whether I'm being too lax or too rigid, but here's my feeling.

AP'ing 3 notes per string
A 3 octave scale - this, I would consider to be the entry point of shred speed in terms of AP'ing. If you can do this at 120 bpm, then you're shredding 3nps

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/legato-exercise-lesson/

Pentatonics - 2 notes per string
at 150 BPM, I would consider you to be entry point-ish.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Killer-Pentatonics-Zakk-Wylde-Style/

And as you know, real shred is not just speed on a single lick or exercise - it's the ability to combine patterns/techniques into something meaningful. Simply sitting on scale or pentatonic pattern is twiddling really fast

Anyone wanna chime in and adjust those numbers or give more examples of entry point shredding?!

Chris!

Posted by: Todd Simpson May 30 2012, 07:12 PM

Well said It's fairly broad term in real use and can cover quite a bit of ground but yeah, that first workout is a really good example of three note per string work at good speed. You'll notice he isn't picking every note, but you don't have to Much like the Master Paul Gilbert himself, using palm muted hammer ons/pull offs and picking once or twice per three note set can work just as well. Of course, some folks feel that's "Cheating" which always struck me as odd since playing guitar isn't a Board Game, or Cards, but language is funny like that

So you can be "Shredding" IMHO without picking every note, but you can also be "Shredding" Picking every note. The latter has a bit more of a percussive sound which I'm a big fan of I like palm muted pull offs too though, ala Paul or Eric Johnson. But until your finger strength is such that you can pull that off, you may have to pick every note. But being able to pick every note is itself a noble goal But by no means the only/most important one.


Unrepentant Shredder
Todd

Posted by: Alex Feather May 30 2012, 08:31 PM

This is really funny! I should make it my catch phrase! LOL
Every time I will hear: "This part is hard" or "I didn't get it" I will say stope shredding!

Posted by: DeGroot May 30 2012, 09:20 PM

That chart is hilarious!!

I guess the "bad" kind of shred is really busy playing with no direction or real sense of a melody. Especially when I don't know what chord I'm playing over... then its time to "stop shredding"

Then there is what I consider the good kind of shred for example... like Michael Romeo will have really musical licks that would sound good even at a slow tempo but he chooses to play them as fast as humanly possible.

Posted by: casinostrat May 30 2012, 09:27 PM

Hmmm.... I must not be a shredder, I had to actually look up who Herman Li was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Li

Guess I really need to start listening to something besides those old blues albums

Great chart man! Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: Ben Higgins May 31 2012, 08:14 AM

Exactly, Senor Simpson ! If all guitar players listened to that nonsense that it's cheating we wouldn't have Satch, Vai and who knows how many else ?

How you choose to combine and use techniques to navigate your way across the fretboard is totally personal and up to you as a guitarist.



Yeah I remember that I think you were just trying to determine how to read your metronome times so you could tell how fast you were playing 16th notes or triplets.. just as a guide to know how you were progressing

Posted by: Sensible Jones May 31 2012, 10:11 AM

My favourite shredder of all time.
He can do all 24 of Paganini's Caprices, the complete Steve vai 30 hour workout, the complete back catalogue of Yngwie J Malmshred AND Rusty Cooley's Super Shred Shed Workout!!!
Not only can he do them, but he does THEM ALL in about 45 seconds.

Posted by: Ben Higgins May 31 2012, 10:16 AM

I'm sold ! Someone should do an 'In the Style of' lesson...

Posted by: Opetholic May 31 2012, 10:24 AM

Hehehe this is good

Posted by: Sensible Jones May 31 2012, 11:08 AM

I would SO love to do that!!!



(Years ago I could have done it quite easily, I worked in a factory that made cardboard Boxes and there was a lot of waste board that went through a big shredding machine!!)

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 31 2012, 12:12 PM

Let's not forget about country shredders check out Rhode Island Shred by Guthrie Govan



do you dig mates?

Posted by: Opetholic May 31 2012, 12:30 PM

Damn, this is restless.. I get tired listening to it

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 31 2012, 03:53 PM

Country Shred??? What about John 5??

Posted by: JTaylor May 31 2012, 04:13 PM

I like some country but I'm not that familiar with it. One singer / guitarist I really like though is Brad Paisley. Does he qualify as a shredder? Also I remember Steve-rec-freak (his user name) did a REC here some time back that totally blew me away. Think it was one of Muris' country lessons?

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 31 2012, 09:36 PM

Brad Paisley is a horrendously good country player - and yes, he is a country shredder I listened to some live instrumental with him which blew me away! Can't remember the name of that tune, but I'll post it once I find it

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 2 2012, 06:41 AM

Steve Vai gives a great definition of Shred

In an interview in March 2011, Steve Vai described 'shred' as: "The terminology used for someone who can play an instrument, and has such a tremendous amount of technique that what they do just seems completely effortless and absurd. It's like this burst of energy that just comes out in extremely fast tearing kind of playing where the notes actually connect. Shred has to have a particular kind of 'tide' to it, I think, that actually gives you that 'blow away' factor that makes it impressive, to a certain degree."