For The Greater Good.. Options

[Ben Higgins]

.. of the song.

How many of you guys have had awkward conversations with band members about what the song requires and that their elaborate idea just isn't needed ?

There's times when busy drum fills aren't appropriate and sometimes what the bass needs to be doing is play the root note ! We have to put our egos to one side and be brutally honest about the overall effect of the song. Is it cohesive and consistent ? Is there 'too much' of something ?

It can be hard to relate this to other musicians without offending them.. how do you deal with it and how often have you had to do it ?

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[Gabriel Leopardi]

I've been the producer and music composer of my band's two albums so I had to deal with this a lot. I always put the song in first place, I don't care about how difficult or how much we show our abilities, my idea is always to find the perfect song for me. I think that this problem happens more with the Drummers. For any reason they use to have ideas that sound good but don't fit with the song. It's difficult to say (at least for me) to say NO, this idea doesn't work, and it's even more difficult if you do it many times with the same musician. I try to find the best way to do it and even to find the best moment to explain them that the idea doesn't work and why.

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[PosterBoy]

Gabriel you do this extremely well. One of the great things about Cirse is the guitar parts fit in nicely. You've got awesome technical chops but you restrain yourself well and work within the confines of the song

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[Gabriel Leopardi]

Gabriel you do this extremely well. One of the great things about Cirse is the guitar parts fit in nicely. You've got awesome technical chops but you restrain yourself well and work within the confines of the song

Thanks mate! Yeah, I try to see Cirse's music as if I were a listener and not the guitar player. When I'm listening to music I enjoy songs, and rarely hear many songs of something just because one of the musicians is a virtuoso. I get bored after some song (maybe 1 song). After all what I try to do is composing and recording songs that I would like to hear.

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[thefireball]

True. If you show off all the time it can be a downer.

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[Ben Higgins]

It's difficult to say (at least for me) to say NO, this idea doesn't work, and it's even more difficult if you do it many times with the same musician.

Yes, I totally agree. It's hard to do it without making it look like you have a personal problem with that musician !

Thanks mate! Yeah, I try to see Cirse's music as if I were a listener and not the guitar player.

Definitely.. you have to put yourself in the position of listener

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[Mudbone]

When you start composing a new song ask the other members to contribute their difficult parts first, that way when you come around again to ask them for a simple part it won't seem like you're being unreasonable. In fact, if they insist on sticking in even more of their super technical parts they will seem like they're being unreasonable. Its really all about framing the situation, and sometimes you have to think two steps ahead

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[Gitarrero]

So, we figured out that the drummer is the problem? Time for some drummer jokes??

Seriously, in my last band (which was a cover band) some guys would try to implement different things in a song. Then the band would decide if it was good or not, and everyone would just take it.
The conversations would be like this:

Keyboarder: "Christian, you were playing against the beat!"
Me: "yeah, that was the whole point of it since you are playing the straight rhythm instead of doing fills"
Keyboarder: "Oh...great idea then!"

(After playing the same song twice)
Bass: "So, do you think the rhythm I did the first time was better? Or rather the one I played the second time?"
Lead guitarist:" you changed something?"
Me: "The second one was better"
Lead: "you heard a differende?"
Me: "Just trying to end this discussion"

We had a good chemistry in the band, so everyone was open to a discussion. Maybe it's easier when you are just covering songs? Come to think of it...no, that doesn't make things easier, but you always have an original version you concentrate on if nothing else works.

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[Dinaga]

Being in a band is HARD. So many egos, so many creative differences, so many different opinions!

I think it all sums up to this: If you can give good feedback and constructive criticism, and if you're willing to take one as well, you can succeed. Otherwise it's just a battle of egos, insults, jealousy, and leads to nowhere.

Artists are a tough group of people and if treated well, they can make wonders but if not it will simply not end well for anyone.

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[Sinisa Cekic]

I have always been for the fact that tolerance is the key to success. "Who is wrong and who is not" is the worst way for the final solution which leads to sense of higher or lower values. Remains the question of that cursed ego - how much are you willing to swallow,for peace in the house ( in the band ).?Even if you are 100 percent right !?!

Well, I still searching for the answer on that question

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[Todd Simpson]

This should really go in the WIKI under WISDOM OF BEN : SURVIVING IN A BAND WITHOUT KILLING EACH OTHER

As for telling folks they might be "overplaying" this is a very sensitive subject. I personal have been guilty of overplaying (shocker I know right? The Shred Guy overplaying?) the MAGIC CURE for this is often to let everyone hear the tune as playback when they are not touching their instruments. Sometimes what feels right to play, sounds wrong when listening. Playing too many notes/Wacky notes, is fun, but listening to them gives it a new perspective.

Also, what about when a band member shares a song / part that is just not very good? Messing up here can get you kicked out of a band. It's happened to me actually so I can tell you from experience. When someone presents "Their Baby" their new song, you really can't pick it apart too much even if it's terrible until everyone in the band who didn't work on it, is of the same mind. It will take them a minute to work up the courage to say something in many cases. But don't lead the charge. Let it be a group/band thing. If it's really bad, they are probably thinking the same.

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