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Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 03:22 PM

Hi here

I am learning Europa from Santana, in fact i try to (am i in the good section beeter in REC ?)

so this is a little sample , i have learn it until 1:15m, after it's improvisation, yes i need to do noise...

https://soundcloud.com/laurent-dizy/santana-3

tell me your advices and feedbacks

regards

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 07:25 PM

40 views and no reactions.....

am i so bad ?

Laurent

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 8 2015, 07:51 PM

Hey Laurent, your playing it's not bad, don't worry. Trust me I'm very honest when I say this
First of all you made a great job and I like your tone

I will tell you my humble opinion and how I would improve your take. But this is just from my point of view

Because your tone has more gain I personally would replace more picking notes with legato, bends, etc, because the playing will sound more fluency. Also take a little more care at bends because are a little out of pitch.

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 08:07 PM

thanks

for the out of bend, i work on.... fast vibrato too, some timing issue too.

still learning and working

about my tone, i use Guitar Rig 5 with a custom preset, an epiphone Les Paul Custom EMG (actives) ,a FA-66 fw interface , and between the FA and the guitar, a lamp pre-amp ART, i suspect this on to give a cool sound

Laurent

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 8 2015, 08:30 PM

This tone is very beautiful and even if has more gain it's still warm. I love it and it fits great with this kind of melodic solos. Great choice

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 08:41 PM

i'll keep this one for this song !

Laurent

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Apr 8 2015, 09:59 PM

BTW Laurent, I forgot to ask you something. You learn this song after our GMC lesson made by Laszlo Boross? Because my advice with replacing more picking notes works only if you make your own version over this song

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 8 2015, 10:02 PM

yes i learn it from his lesson

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 9 2015, 09:10 AM

any instructor advices ?

maybe in the wrong section....

Laurent

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 9 2015, 02:33 PM

Hi Laurent!

I'm listening to your take and I have to say that your playing is very consistent on this one. You used a very different type of tone, with more gain and effect (some delay or reverb). That makes your playing sound more powerful than the original, but I also feel that it lacks dynamics. I enjoy more a type of tone like Santana's uses because it allows different levels of picking intensities to get different accents on phrases. If you listen to the track, his "level" of gain grows as the song evolves, but he also adapts to different moments and grooves.

Your playing is good, you have good timing and your technique is precise, I think that now it's time to explore other expression tools that can give your playing more feeling.

These are some good lessons about the topic I think you should work:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Blues-Dynamics/
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/writing_a_solo_dynamics/

On the other hand, I think that Monica's suggestion is really interesting if you want to keep this tone. Exploring with those kind of techniques and trying to pick less can make your phrasing more expressive and smooth. Try this also if you prefer high gain tones.

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 9 2015, 04:22 PM

thanks Gabriel !!!!

it's bookmarked, i'll work on soon as possible !

you are right, i have listen my track again, it's pretty nice* , but it lake of dynamics !!

Laurent

* of course, i'm objective..... lol

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 6 2015, 04:58 PM

hi here

i come back with another little record about this lovely track.

do you notice some differences with the previous one ?

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santana

ps: you can hear a empty string sound, but in fact i have bump the head ito my windows
this wasn't record for this purpose, but i feel something new when i played it

i have notice volume changes during the recording, it's because i play with the volume pedal......

Laurent

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Aug 7 2015, 02:12 PM

Hi mate, I think that there are many wrong notes and unwanted noises on this one. I feel that playing less notes and focusing on playing everything cleaning is a good idea for the next days of practice, what do you think?

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 7 2015, 02:19 PM

i fully agree !!!

Laurent

Posted by: klasaine Aug 7 2015, 06:07 PM

Your tone is fine.

Do you practice playing along with the actual Santana original track?

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 7 2015, 07:13 PM

thanks for listening

no i have learn it from the GMC lesson, and i only do improvisation on

Laurent

Posted by: klasaine Aug 7 2015, 10:59 PM

I would play along with the original Santana track for awhile.
That tune is all about the 'feel', the groove of the melody. If nothing else, Santana is a master (if not one of the masters) of feel and phrasing.

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 8 2015, 08:21 AM

Hi here

yesterday i have record two video about me play europa.

both are improvisations, so you can find lots of errors....

after reflection i decide to share it with you, i was shy about thesen but Todd convice me to put them here.

the first one, recorded early in the morning ,as a warm up



and the second one, after have buy another cam, it's more experiemental , at some time i lost my way, even on well know riffs... sad



enjoy

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 8 2015, 01:55 PM

Hi

as some member of a french forum suggested me to do a finger played version without effets, of a little of

i decide to do this one, based on the same BT, i have record the rythm track and the lead.

i have done some errors, it's a two shoot (one for rythm and one for lead)

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santana-with-finger-rythm

enjoy & give me feedback

Laurent

Posted by: jstcrsn Aug 8 2015, 04:29 PM

I would take enough gain out of your tone so that you could start controlling the gain with your guitar volume knob to get greater mode swings .Your playing is enjoyable , but I believe if you could incorporate this technique it would take you to the next level.

Example: Start your first riff with lower gain and when you are about to change from the "verse" roll your gain in and see what you think

Posted by: klasaine Aug 8 2015, 04:34 PM

The clean tone is really nice!

But you're rushing the timing on the lines and phrases. This is why I recommend playing along with the Santana version for awhile. The essence of this song is 'laying back'.

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 8 2015, 06:59 PM

yes i can play more slowly and laid back

i can try to do this !

stay tuned

Laurent

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Aug 8 2015, 10:55 PM

I think that you are doing a good job learning this song. First of all, I feel that this is a colossal effort and that once you get it down you'll be making a big accomplishment. My suggestion would be to cut the tune down to bite sized chunks. For example first minute and half for example and then work on details. Ken nicely pointed out that you are having a tendency of rushing a bit. Try to be late on purpose. You should be finding a "pocket" for this song just behind the beat. My other suggestion would be to try to emulate the tone Santana uses. He has a lot of sustain in his tone. If you dial in the similar tone you'd be able to get closer to the original recording and pull of some tricks he uses in his playing. Keep going, looking forward to hearing more from you.

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 9 2015, 10:05 AM

Hi Bogdan

thanks for listening, and for the advices , this motivate me a lot, cause i feel something strong is changing in my way to do.

so, you are right (as Todd , Gabriel and other), so i decide to do a try ion this way

i think can do better about laidback... i must embrace the sense of that

I love this cool and quiet style, this night I slept badly, stuff a try ahead
this morning I try to deliver them, or materialize.

not easy, but I'll get there !! wooden pick is a bit of a handicap of dynamics
but it provides so much heat to the tone ...

there are false notes, some are "required" or failed attempts

So here's the fruit of my torments.

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santan-smooth

at the end, i seem to do some strange stuff.... i'have lost my concentration

Laurent

for those who don"t have an overdose

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santana-smooth-7

i try to play with some arpegio sweeped, it's not mastered, but it start to sound if it not me who play !!

i turn crazy, i can see a lot of new musical opportunities for me, i think i was stucked for a while, but suddently something happend

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 10 2015, 09:33 AM

Hi !

No more feedback ?

Laurent

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Aug 10 2015, 02:10 PM

Hi Laurent, I think that you are going in the right direction with playing laid back. Please remind me of your goals related to learning this song? Would you like to go for a full on cover, note for note or to learn the song to play "in your own style", for example using a clean tone like you are in these recordings?

Overall, your performance sounds very solid.

If I were learning this song, at this point I would probably focus on:

- Cutting song to 30 sec sections and learning them perfectly
- Focusing on playing behind the beat (laid back)
- Try to tweak the tone similar to one on the original recording
- Focusing on small details

Now, when listening to your take as a whole - I think there are some technical mistakes holding you back. There are missed notes, noises etc here and there. It might be beneficial to work on some fingering exercises, then exercises involving hammer-on, pull-off and slide actions as well as exercises focusing on hands sync. You could do these in your spare practice time, when you feel up to it (not as something mandatory!) as they will slowly over time help you execute and perform this or any other song a bit easier and cleaner. With your level and style of playing, I think it would be a huge step forward if you would clean it up just a bit and make the phrasing more precise and defined in terms of time and timing (this last advice is general and not related just to this song) because I really like the feeling you have when playing and tone choices in general which are elements really hard to obtain or practice while this other stuff can be improved much easier with practice hours.

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 10 2015, 03:46 PM

Hi Bogdan

My goal is to play this track (and other) in my own style, iahev start to learn it onto the GMC lesson, i was plan to do a REC with.
now i'm too far fro mthe original one, even if we can reconise it.

on these track i record, i do improvisation, so to make it better, cleaner , like you said, i must work on my technical skill.

i am conscious about this play style request a good skill, and i do not have it now, something is about to grow



that's why i do exercice adviced from Gabriel and others (you too), but thing aren't easy as they seem to be, and for near 2 years i have learn by myself then i learn a LOTS of bad things, play position, pick handling, legato etc in fact i'm near to have learn everything since i'am here.

maybe i want too much now



Yes, i search my notes while i play, i sing the melody when i play , it help a lot, but sometime... fingers aren"t a the right place, are at the last limit i change my choice , as i know,doing improvisation is not an improvisation (do you see what i mean ?)



i like to, but how ? from my position i feel like be in front of a wall, i try to, i work everydays some

i feel like a child with a new toys, it's a bit blurry , i feel something want to get out of me... very frustrating.



thank you to listen and appreciate this ! thanks to other people to take time and comment my works

for today i put Europa in a corner for some time, i started to learn MoonFlower from santana, it seem to take the same way , this change permit me to learn other thing, i'll apply them on Europa later

i continue to work on lessons, have fun with creativity workout and be fuck"in happy to start to know my fretboard

Laurent

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Aug 10 2015, 06:54 PM

Hi laurent, you've sent me a video playing Europa and as we are following your progress on this one in this thread, I'll give you my feedback here.


Hi mate, nice to see you playing this one on video.

It's interesting to see how you are slowly polishing your playing thanks to the practice of this tune. The melodic sections sound consistent however the faster parts need more work to sound clear and clean. I think that the main problem is hand sync when playing fast alternate picking licks or patterns but this also happens in some legato licks. That's when your licks start to sound as your video looks... "blurry".
To let you identify the moments, this are the exact moments where your playing sounds like that:
00:11
00:39 to 00:50
00:56
01:02
1:24

The other thing that you need o adjust is the note choices. It's ok to play notes that aren't part of the scale but you have to be careful and use them wisely as passing notes to avoid making them sound as "errors". I note this problem around 00:25, 00:31, 1:36, 1:38.

Another two things to have in mind are:

- Many licks sound with unwanted extra sounds that make it sound noisy. Try to mute the strings that you are not playing while you play, and also be sure to mute the previous note when a new one is played.

- I'd like to hear less notes, simpler but more defined phrases.

This two things will also help to make your playing sounds more defined and less "blury" as I commented previously.

That's all by now, I hope that this comments help during the next days of practice.

Posted by: fzalfa Aug 10 2015, 08:56 PM

yes theses part as blurry as my cam was (but it might be more diificult to solve the issue )

so i think (and be sure of) i must work on hand sync and on legato pull of and hamering....

about notes flow, do you try my last records ?

in any case, i take care about your advices and try to apply them !

thankx you for watching

Laurent

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Aug 10 2015, 10:14 PM

Hi Laurent, I've read your reply and I agree with you and just would like to add that you are doing a great job from what I was following from you here so far. Some things take time to settle and you should always look from the positive side at things you need to do to get there. With this tune here, it will be a really cool accomplishment to polish up all the details we discussed over time as that will surely mean you've made it to the next level. The higher you go, the more fun things become but at any level you should work on what inspires you so if you get in a rut with one tune, switch to the next one and allow some time to pass. The ultimate goal with guitar is to always have fun as that will ensure progress and signify you are on the right path. Looking forward to following your guitar journey!

Posted by: fzalfa Apr 13 2016, 10:49 PM

Hi

I have don a little try to this track, once again, because i really love it and i like to see how i can progress on this one.

i do not try to play like Carlos, play it the way i love it. i only done an improvisation

https://soundcloud.com/laurent-377054242/santana-europa

what is you mind since the last take ?

edit:
after re ear it again, i think i can do better.....

edit:
i have done a hammer pull/off only take..... bends are weird a sample

https://soundcloud.com/laurent-377054242/europa-hammer

Laurent

Posted by: fzalfa Jun 18 2016, 07:58 PM

Hi

i have done another take of this track, i regulary do a record of it, this permit me to see some progression or not. it act like a reference for my skill.

still some errors but it sound cool ;D



cheers

Laurent

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 18 2016, 08:06 PM

Just gave this another listen and I wanted to say how impressed I am by your work here. I can still remember back when we first started working together in vid chat. You have made HUGE progress and this vid is the proof. You are really playing well here and it's just the start of your journey I look forward to seeing great things come from all your practice!!

Todd

Posted by: verciazghra Jun 28 2016, 03:56 PM

Very much liked this all. Got no feedback. Well done Laurent.