The Importance Of A Good Instrument Options

[Mike RR24]

Have to disagree with this. Just replaced the well set-up Les Paul knock-off which had after market Gibson pickups in it with a real Standard. The difference in playability and tone is night and day.

Z.

Sounds like you meant you agree with this right?

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[Todd Simpson]

Obviously at a certain point, there is a difference. We were all talking about mid range/used/cheap gear to be honest. I don't think anyone would suggest a cheap chinese les paul fake can compare to a real one.

My current fav guitar is an ancient Ibanez RG560 with stock pickups that I bought used. It's a great example of a fairly cheap, stock, non custom guitar that plays better most every other guitar I've ever touched and I"ve played LOTS of guitars. But everyone has their own thoughts and feeling on what "Good" means so of course there's WADS of room for interpretation.

The point of the thread was to say that you don't have to have / spend crazy money to get a nice axe that you can learn and gig with. Which is great news

Todd

Have to disagree with this. Just replaced the well set-up Les Paul knock-off which had after market Gibson pickups in it with a real Standard. The difference in playability and tone is night and day.

Z.

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[SpaseMoonkey]

And even with CRAP stock pickups, I manage to get pretty ripping tone using cheap software apps like overloud. So no expensive guitar, not even using an amp, and BINGO! So dont' think that just because you are not playing a hand made Jackson through a Triple Rectifier, that you are at a HUGE disadvantage. I run in to this with many students who feel they can't really sound good unless they spend several thousand dollars on gear. Paul Gilbert (my Hero) made this plain to me when he toured with Racer X using a honestly low end ibanez with truly crap pickups and he still sounded amazing.

Are you poking at me?

I almost sound like this very example, check my sig for my gear list. But Todd isn't lying at all. I have the gear, but I acquired an Ibanez S770 a few months ago. I did a trade in but the guitar was $900. The only reason it was a bit higher in price was the poplar wood finish, and that it was a H-S-H configuration. My friend owns a Ibanez S620 pretty much the same guitar I have just a different finish and its a dual humbucker setup. He paid about $300 less. They play pretty much the same once setup.

So its no lie, gear helps but you can find a great product at a cheaper price. I tend to look for used gear at stores, something I can go pick up and play. I've been thinking of going to check out a JEM7BLK, it has everything the higher end JEM's have minus the design on the neck. But for the price I don't think that little feature matters all the much.

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[JesseJ]

Here is my take on the matter . My guitar mentor and teacher always says that a great guitarist can make any guitar sound good. Period. I always thought it was all in the player and the guitar didn't even matter. I have a played (not owned ) A bunch of different guitars PRS SE models Fenders in all there many shapes and styles , Gibson SG's and Les Paul's , Vox , Lot's of ibanez's and many others . All of these guitars were fun and I enjoyed playing them.

But It wasnt until I bought my first guitar that I saw and felt the difference that quality makes !! I own a PRS ( not an SE the real thing hand made in the states!!! ) I paid A pretty penny for it used $1,600 US . And for a PRS that is considered a great deal . I do not have any regrets spending that kind of cash. I see so many people with thousands and thousands of dollars in music equipment saying they wish they could afford a nice guitar .

everybody ready for this ..... I ONLY HAVE ONE GUITAR !! shocking I know But that is because I found the perfect guitar seriously sell your entire collection and buy 1 killer guitar . You will never look back. I find having an exspensive guitar does not make you a good guitarist but it inspires you encourages you and makes you want to play like you wouldn't believe . I understand not everyone can afford it and luckly for me I am still A teenager living at home so I can . but just save your pennies, or like i said sell your whole quiver and trade it in for 1 beast !

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[Mike RR24]

Here is my take on the matter . My guitar mentor and teacher always says that a great guitarist can make any guitar sound good. Period. I always thought it was all in the player and the guitar didn't even matter. I have a played (not owned ) A bunch of different guitars PRS SE models Fenders in all there many shapes and styles , Gibson SG's and Les Paul's , Vox , Lot's of ibanez's and many others . All of these guitars were fun and I enjoyed playing them.

But It wasnt until I bought my first guitar that I saw and felt the difference that quality makes !! I own a PRS ( not an SE the real thing hand made in the states!!! ) I paid A pretty penny for it used $1,600 US . And for a PRS that is considered a great deal . I do not have any regrets spending that kind of cash. I see so many people with thousands and thousands of dollars in music equipment saying they wish they could afford a nice guitar .

everybody ready for this ..... I ONLY HAVE ONE GUITAR !! shocking I know But that is because I found the perfect guitar seriously sell your entire collection and buy 1 killer guitar . You will never look back. I find having an exspensive guitar does not make you a good guitarist but it inspires you encourages you and makes you want to play like you wouldn't believe . I understand not everyone can afford it and lucky for me I am still A teenager living at home so I can . but just save your pennies, or like i said sell your whole quiver and trade it in for 1 beast !

I have to say Jesse is right on the any guitar will sound good if a master is playing. I have seen it done. I once had this $100 squier and a buddy of mine made that thing sound like a million bucks. I thought WoW.... I remember thinking at the time I can't believe that guitar sounded like that. I never even knew it was capable of squealing like that !! Blew me away. Now I'm not saying rush out and buy a $100.00 Guitar but whatever you can afford will be good. I like to think that the money you put in your guitar is equal to the motivation you have to play. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks Jesse for reminding me of that one.

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[ringmar]

ALl you need is:

1. Setup to your liking?
2. Stays in tune?
3. Reasonable pickups?
4. Neck that is comfortable for your hands?

and most importantly:

5. MOTIVATES you to pick it up!

This can be had in any price range. #5 is a bit harder in the really lower end guitars for some people.

I am fortunate enough and have worked hard enough that I can afford some nice gear. Nicer gear than my level of playing. But it's pretty much my only diversion outside of work and family that I figure "why not?" I have a USA Jackson KING V hard tail, an Ibanez RG2560 (Japan version... got a crazy deal on it) and a I rent a gibson LP studio ($25 per month). Amp is a 50W EVH 5150III head into a EVH 4x12 cabinet. Getting a boss GT-10 for father's day.

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This post has been edited by ringmar: Jun 11 2012, 02:52 PM

[Cosmin Lupu]

I have to say Jesse is right on the any guitar will sound good if a master is playing. I have seen it done. I once had this $100 squier and a buddy of mine made that thing sound like a million bucks. I thought WoW.... I remember thinking at the time I can't believe that guitar sounded like that. I never even knew it was capable of squealing like that !! Blew me away. Now I'm not saying rush out and buy a $100.00 Guitar but whatever you can afford will be good. I like to think that the money you put in your guitar is equal to the motivation you have to play. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks Jesse for reminding me of that one.

Precisely! Well, I can tell you that the SE models are great axes and I wouldn't trade my Paul Allender guitar for anything. I also tried the new model, which by the way, sounds awesome

Now, I agree that when your level of perception is in development, you may not know what's what with an axe, but the important elements have been stated below by ringmar! Have the guts to choose you may go wrong once, maybe twice or maybe not at all, right?

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[thefireball]

Thanks for this thread, guys. I still haven't found my dream guitar, so I have to deal with my two Ibanezes, a GIO and RG, and my Jackson SLSMG. I would like to upgrade my GIO, but the neck is not friendly. I can feel the cheap quality of it. It's hard to play stuff. But I can get a pretty good tone out of it, it's just not as clear.

If I just forget about all the latest doodads out there, it's a lot easier to be content with what I have. Half of me wants to sell my Ibanez GIO, and the other half doesn't. It was my first guitar. I probably wouldn't gain anything but more room. It's probably not worth anything.

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This post has been edited by thefireball: Jun 11 2012, 04:41 PM

[Alex Feather]

Hey guys, so long!

As we built a rehearsal room in our drummer's house, I leave all my equipment there. At home i play with a fender squier stratocaster and a zoom gfx 707 and damn I can feel the difference.. so I was wondering..... what is the importance of having a professional/good instrument for you?

Once I was told that "the sound (your sound)" is in your fingers...maybe..but all the greatest guitarrist use top level instruments

I think it depends on you! I have seen people making a great recordings with cheap instruments and some making very bad with very expensive guitars! It's all in your mind not the instrument!

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[SirJamsalot]

If you play good on a bad guitar, you'll be able to play good on a good guitar. If you play good on a good guitar, you might not be able to play good on a bad guitar

Personally, I could care less what guitar I play on these days. The only up-side to a hot looking guitar is stage presence. The genre of music you play will often dictate the style of guitar you choose, not because of the sound/tone of the guitar, but because you'd look silly playing a flying V in a polka band. Or maybe not!

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[Mike RR24]

If you play good on a bad guitar, you'll be able to play good on a good guitar. If you play good on a good guitar, you might not be able to play good on a bad guitar

Personally, I could care less what guitar I play on these days. The only up-side to a hot looking guitar is stage presence. The genre of music you play will often dictate the style of guitar you choose, not because of the sound/tone of the guitar, but because you'd look silly playing a flying V in a polka band. Or maybe not!

That's funny Sirjamsalot I have a Inverted flying V Jackson and I'm getting a mental picture of that.
Of course I guess I'd use my LP fort that.

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[Todd Simpson]

I have to say Jesse is right on the any guitar will sound good if a master is playing. I have seen it done. I once had this $100 squier and a buddy of mine made that thing sound like a million bucks. I thought WoW.... I remember thinking at the time I can't believe that guitar sounded like that. I never even knew it was capable of squealing like that !! Blew me away. Now I'm not saying rush out and buy a $100.00 Guitar but whatever you can afford will be good. I like to think that the money you put in your guitar is equal to the motivation you have to play. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks Jesse for reminding me of that one.

Yup I agree 100 %. Paul Gilbert used to take the cheapest, trashed ibanez he could find off the wall during his clinics and make it sound amazing.

But the real thrust of this thead, was honestly just about not worrying about not being able to afford a crazy pricey guitar. Even if you are just starting out and can barely play, most any guitar will do for learning. Sure, it's always nice to have a better instrument and a Ferrari will feel better than a Buick Station Wagon, of course, just like a PRS will be nicer to play than say a guitar made from bailing wire. But extreme comparisons aside, it all starts and ends with the player. So don't think that just because you have a not so great guitar, that you are somehow at a huge loss.

Are you poking at me?

I almost sound like this very example, check my sig for my gear list. But Todd isn't lying at all. I have the gear, but I acquired an Ibanez S770 a few months ago. I did a trade in but the guitar was $900. The only reason it was a bit higher in price was the poplar wood finish, and that it was a H-S-H configuration. My friend owns a Ibanez S620 pretty much the same guitar I have just a different finish and its a dual humbucker setup. He paid about $300 less. They play pretty much the same once setup.

So its no lie, gear helps but you can find a great product at a cheaper price. I tend to look for used gear at stores, something I can go pick up and play. I've been thinking of going to check out a JEM7BLK, it has everything the higher end JEM's have minus the design on the neck. But for the price I don't think that little feature matters all the much.

You've got a nicer rig than I do by a long shot! And a much nicer Ibanez! Both of mine are quite old and were bought used with many miles already on them. But I do love em! I think you nailed it on buying guitars. You really do have to actually go play what's available and see what your hands tell you about the instrument. Also, buying used gear gets you far more bang for you buck so I don't typically buy new instruments. The new instruments I do have were from Endorsements. Almost all the Axes I"ve paid for out of pocket are from Pawn Shops or Used from Music Stores.

I do spend money on the rest of the bits needed to record. So balancing ones spend is important. having a killer amp and guitar is an awesome thing. But if you run out of money and can't buy a decent audio interface, microhpones, software, monitors, decent music computer etc., then you still only most of the way there in terms of being able to write/record music. So plan each spend carefully.

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[maharzan]

A good instrument really makes you polish your musical talents. I own 5 guitars. They are pretty expensive down here with a minimum $500 or so (for a $200ish guitar). And even though they are expensive they are very low quality. I owned a JEM as my first guitar but guess what, it detuned a lot, intonation issues and whenever I posted a take, everybody just commented about something is wrong with that guitar. With like 6-7 years with the same guitar, my ears obviously trained badly. I never knew about intonations. My bends are still struggling, things like that. So, I really recommend getting a really nice guitar before spending too many hours with it.

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[Todd Simpson]

This is a GREAT point about intonation! Make SURE To get a guitar that will intonate properly. Yet another reason to buy, if at all possible, from a local shop where you can try it out, and even have it "Set Up" and intonated properly before you take it home for the first time. If you buy a guitar from a shop, have it intonated and it still isn't in tune above the 12th fret for example, DON"T TAKE IT HOME.

As many players are brand new, here is a SUPER QUICK AND DIRTY GUIDE TO INTONATION.

PIck up a guitar and tune it. Play a bar chord at the 5th, 9th, and 12th fret. Any chord will do so long as your first finger bars all the strings so you can move the chord around. It should sound "in tune" at every position. If you notice it sounds out of tune at the higher frets. the INTONATION IS PROBABLY WRONG.

You may be thinking that you can't really tell if a chord is in tune or not. At that point, you really need to ask the luthier/guitar tech at the shop (not the salesman typically unless they are very cool, as they might be on commission). Or bring someone with you, an instructor, band mate, friends, etc. who has more experience and can help you determine if the guitar is a keeper. Sort of like taking your Dad with you to buy your first car. Having someone with experience is helpful.

Of course, this won't be feasible for everyone. Some folks have told me they don't live near any music stores or pawn shops and that they have no musician friends close by so they have no choice but to buy site unseen from the internet. For someone starting out, this can have problems. Sometimes, it's fine. Sometimes, it's not.

The GMC family here can offer advice, but you really need to be able to touch/play an instrument you are buying, and learning how to tell if it's crap (won't tune/intonate properly, neck is warped, frets are worn, etc.) is a skill in itself and comes with time and experience about like playing guitar does

Todd

A good instrument really makes you polish your musical talents. I own 5 guitars. They are pretty expensive down here with a minimum $500 or so (for a $200ish guitar). And even though they are expensive they are very low quality. I owned a JEM as my first guitar but guess what, it detuned a lot, intonation issues and whenever I posted a take, everybody just commented about something is wrong with that guitar. With like 6-7 years with the same guitar, my ears obviously trained badly. I never knew about intonations. My bends are still struggling, things like that. So, I really recommend getting a really nice guitar before spending too many hours with it.

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[SirJamsalot]

I second that - Good point about intonation issues. I have a very sensitive ear when it comes to +- cents out of tune instruments. The first turn off for a guitar is whether I can tune it in-store, play it and not have to re tune it. Nothing more harsh to my ears is a guitar falling out of tune mid-song. I've owned two guitars and two accoustics, and I rarely had/have to tune them once I get them dialed in. Not so with some other guitarists I play with... especially harsh on the ears when there's an instrumental clean-tone picking portion of a song and notes stop meshing pleasantly. ug!

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[maharzan]

I wish I knew the sounds ( my ear is bad ) and it was my first ever guitar purchase. Didn't know nothing about neck / frets / body / pickups/ didn't know what whammy bars were. Of all the guitar I tried JEM felt comfortable although I m not really a vai fan nor I like that guitar hole. Now, I know a lot about guitar.

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[Mike RR24]

I remember my first Electric Guitar I bought I went to Guitar Center and I picked out the LTD EC-1000 and they got it down from the wall and I played it but it was not in tune so I tuned it and it still kept losing tune. I took it home for $1069.00 with a case.
Then I got to learn what intonation was.. I had heard about it and that was about all. I searched the internet and did the intonation and tuning and it was perfect. Stayed in tune no problems. I noticed I had to offset the bridge and stop tail piece a little bit leaning to the right. Shortly there after I gave it to my wife and bought a Jackson Pro RR24 WoW a floyd rose Tremolo.
Never had a floating bridge before. Needless to say it took me 3.5 Hours to get it intonated and tuned the first time.
No I own 2 more with Floyd's and it's a piece of cake to tune and intonate. I wish I had known all the secrets in the beginning.
I will say though I have a Fender Strat Mexican version and it holds a tune like no other. Tune it up and intonate it and it never loses tune. Of course I don't use that tremolo bar on it at all. I ended up having to go back to guitar center to get the tools for my guitar and they gave me the wrong size allen so I had to go back again. The rest of my guitars were never from guitar center again. No BOX, no Tools, NO Manual. You live and learn. Now I swap out pickups and rewire and all kinds of stuff in a pretty short time but it took me a good deal of my time to learn all the tricks associated with guitars. I went overboard to the tune of $10,000.00 on Equipment and Guitars. I think they call it "Gear Syndrome" I kept thinking if I only had this I could play better, it I only had that etc... etc....etc... little did I know to play good I had to practice like I meant it. Anyway I don't really regret it as I have everything to record and Voice Processors etc and I'll never need to buy anything else for a while. Yeah right!!!

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[Todd Simpson]

I've seen "Gear Syndrome" quite a lot as an instructor where students think the same thing you are talking about. "If I just had this, and this, and this, I"d sound like a milliion bux!" Well, it's partly true. You'd sound like whatever level you play at, playing through really nice gear. It won't hurt, but time getting money, gear, together has to be weighed against time not spent actually getting better by practicing.

It's normal and natural to want great gear. I love gear But just having gear (believe it or not) won't make you sound much better than you actually are, nor will it make you "want" to practice despite the fact that it seems like it would be "motivating". That usually lasts about a week. Then it gets hard again. So unless you can buy motivational gear each week, your motivation is going to have to come from within. That's the real secret to getting better

I remember my first Electric Guitar I bought I went to Guitar Center and I picked out the LTD EC-1000 and they got it down from the wall and I played it but it was not in tune so I tuned it and it still kept losing tune. I took it home for $1069.00 with a case.
Then I got to learn what intonation was.. I had heard about it and that was about all. I searched the internet and did the intonation and tuning and it was perfect. Stayed in tune no problems. I noticed I had to offset the bridge and stop tail piece a little bit leaning to the right. Shortly there after I gave it to my wife and bought a Jackson Pro RR24 WoW a floyd rose Tremolo.
Never had a floating bridge before. Needless to say it took me 3.5 Hours to get it intonated and tuned the first time.
No I own 2 more with Floyd's and it's a piece of cake to tune and intonate. I wish I had known all the secrets in the beginning.
I will say though I have a Fender Strat Mexican version and it holds a tune like no other. Tune it up and intonate it and it never loses tune. Of course I don't use that tremolo bar on it at all. I ended up having to go back to guitar center to get the tools for my guitar and they gave me the wrong size allen so I had to go back again. The rest of my guitars were never from guitar center again. No BOX, no Tools, NO Manual. You live and learn. Now I swap out pickups and rewire and all kinds of stuff in a pretty short time but it took me a good deal of my time to learn all the tricks associated with guitars. I went overboard to the tune of $10,000.00 on Equipment and Guitars. I think they call it "Gear Syndrome" I kept thinking if I only had this I could play better, it I only had that etc... etc....etc... little did I know to play good I had to practice like I meant it. Anyway I don't really regret it as I have everything to record and Voice Processors etc and I'll never need to buy anything else for a while. Yeah right!!!

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[Mike RR24]

I've seen "Gear Syndrome" quite a lot as an instructor where students think the same thing you are talking about. "If I just had this, and this, and this, I"d sound like a milliion bux!" Well, it's partly true. You'd sound like whatever level you play at, playing through really nice gear. It won't hurt, but time getting money, gear, together has to be weighed against time not spent actually getting better by practicing.

It's normal and natural to want great gear. I love gear But just having gear (believe it or not) won't make you sound much better than you actually are, nor will it make you "want" to practice despite the fact that it seems like it would be "motivating". That usually lasts about a week. Then it gets hard again. So unless you can buy motivational gear each week, your motivation is going to have to come from within. That's the real secret to getting better

Todd you could not have said it better. I don't regret the gear I have but It's hard again and I'm having to study because I want to get better and I have all the time available right now. When I start playing I want to play more and when I learn something I could not do before I really start loving it. I have to practice something everyday that I can learn. I have trouble with boring routines of scales and such. I have to see how technique works on the guitar itself. It does help my wife being a guitar player. We get to play together and it helps us with our timing. Otherwise we will play with backing tracks or the song.

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[awat]

You are going to have to find a tone you like and can work with. I have played cheap guitars and got a good tone and played expensive ones and could not get a good tone. Try every guitar you can and amp and effects until you get the sound you are after.
I was trying to get a holdsworth tone. My instructor got it for me. He plays like Holdsworth and Gambale and knows how to get their tones.

Tony

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