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Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 11:30 AM

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* You guessed it - we’re doing another audio collab to follow up on the http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53560.
* Deadline is 2015-02-05. Lots of time to polish your take, and we’ll do our outmost to help you out along the way.
* This is a workshop where you will understand how to make music, not just practice. So by participating here you will reach insights not possible to get elsewhere on the site.
* Post your take in this topic
* For your final version, upload files in this topic (mp3 with at least 128 kbps quality, 16 bit wav files are welcome though). We need two files: 1. Your solo without the backing track 2. Your solo mixed with the backing track for reference


Gab recorded this amazing sounding AC/DC style track in 120 bpm. You can use the A minor pentatonic scale to play over it:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

VERSE
A5 | D5 G | (x4)

BRIDGE
E | E |

CHORUS
A5 G | D5 G | (x4)

------

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=40970

Order of Appearance:

Gabriel Leopardi (Rhythm guitar & intro phrase)
SubbedCris (Lead guitar)
Phil66 (Lead guitar) + Dieterle (Rhythmic delay arrangement)
Beat Zbinden (Lead guitar and Kirk Hammet’s Wah Wah auto pan)
Lothomer (Lead guitar)
Sensible Jones (Lead guitar)
Rhida (Lead guitar)
Caelumamittendum (Lead guitar)
SpaaseMonkey (Lead guitar)
GeneT95 (Lead guitar)
Vinman (Lead guitar)
Procyon (Lead guitar)
Bleez + Nick6373 (Guitar battle)
Kristofel Dahl (Lead guitar)

Posted by: MrUK Jan 16 2015, 12:19 PM

Hell yeah!

That´s one style that I like

Nice picture on you too..!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 12:25 PM

Awesome to have you in!

And thanks I wanted to look.. Young!

Posted by: MrUK Jan 16 2015, 12:37 PM

I´ll give it a try, but can´t promise anything...
Maby I end up in deep water...

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 12:44 PM

No commitments needed. Just have fun with the track! You only need to record yourself if you feel like (obviously)

I am also hoping we'll get some beginners participating - as those usually benefit most from collabs (but they are also the shy:est students - for understandable reasons).

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 16 2015, 12:44 PM

OK here i am, the OLDY gives it a try and hopefully i feel a bit younger after That !

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 12:44 PM

Haha guaranteed! Awesome Dieterle!

Posted by: Rhida Jan 16 2015, 01:44 PM

Great band, great music so obviously it will be a great collab!
I'm in!

Posted by: SubbedChris Jan 16 2015, 02:10 PM

Cool backing track and collab!

My take ------>  AC_DC.mp3 ( 1.26MB ) : 672



Without backing ---->  AC_DC_Raw.mp3 ( 1.26MB ) : 517

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 02:36 PM

Hehe wow that was fast Chris, great to see you here again!

You did an amazing job and I hope others won't be intimidated by the quality of this first take.

You begin strong straight from start, with a bright tone that suits the style and backing. And 0:10-0:20 is just pure eargasm!

The level of this one is very high so take my feedback as personal taste advice:

* I would have mixed the guitar slightly lower, to better establish your guitar among the other instruments.

* From the bend at 00:26 quality of your playing goes down slightly, the bend and vibrato feels a little off pitch wise. In the run at 00:31, playing is slightly sloppy (because of hand synch). Same at 00:34 where a missed note can be heard.

* I would probably try to smoothen the last run at 00:33, to better follow the feel of the backing track. Maybe by using neck pickup, and/or softer playing dynamics. N.B. Possibly this will be less of a problem with your guitar mixed lower.

Very cool start of the collab, thanks Chris!

Posted by: SubbedChris Jan 16 2015, 02:39 PM

Yeah,noticed all these too :\ I started electric again after nearly 2 years so I got a long long way to go!

Thanks for the feedback!!!!

Posted by: MrUK Jan 16 2015, 02:49 PM

I think I need to practice like a demon here on GMC, before I even think about doing this one...!

Hard work, hard work, hard work.....

Any way, great work SubbedChris!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 03:04 PM

Ok even more well done considering that. You should never have put it down..or?

I am in the same boat, I put the guitar down for almost two years - and I got a lot of new perspective thanks to this... But I am not sure I ever will let it go again though



Yes that is the idea with these collabs, they make you want to work even harder!

But it's important to understand that you should not feel that your take must be perfect before you can upload. Because as a learning student, it is not easy to 'perfect' on your own. And you could even work in the wrong direction without knowing it.

So by uploading here you do yourself a big favour, and it does not really matter what others think about your playing. What matters is that you do the smartest move for you own progress. And as mentioned, participating in a collab is very different from practicing lessons on your own. Try it and you will see what I mean!

Posted by: MrUK Jan 16 2015, 03:08 PM

Thanks for the tip, I know what you mean..!

Posted by: SubbedChris Jan 16 2015, 03:12 PM

I was frustrated with my electric tone back then (and still am) and started playing percussive stuff on acoustic guitar..Andy McKee,Antoine Dufour etc! I learned lots of new things but my love for electric guitar prevailed 2 years later!

So here I am,and you'll probably see more of me!



Thank you!

Making your own arrangement is part of your learning process! And this one is very very fun! Post your take nooooow!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 03:36 PM

Wow sounds amazing, you've certainly not wasted any time, by the sound of it!

Posted by: MisterM Jan 16 2015, 03:53 PM

Hi

Excuse my bad english, I'm french, I use the google tranlate

Thank you for backing track.. I try this evening....

How play the minor scale ? Does it play scale based on chord ?

Generally I try to play a single tone .... I don't have knowledge of music theory

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 04:08 PM

Great question!

The "A minor pentatonic" scale works over all these chords, because the key of the backing track is A. The tonality of the backing track doesn't change, so you can stay in the same key throughout.

To complicate things, there is no "third" note (C or C#) present in the backing track. Which means this progression is not really minor nor major.

So you could also try the A major pentatonic scale:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator


There are many other options though. For example if you would rather play on a single string, you can play these notes:



Let me know if I understood your question!

Posted by: Beat Zbinden Jan 16 2015, 04:27 PM

I'm in¨
Let's rock!!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 04:31 PM

Welcome Beat - can't wait to hear your take!

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 16 2015, 06:39 PM

OK my first record over my new macbook and after a long time ..................
need some more time to get some feeling in my fingers and on guitarneck

only guitar

https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-collab-without-1

with backing

https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-colab-with-1

Posted by: MisterM Jan 16 2015, 06:44 PM

Thank you Kristofer

I'll listen and I 'll try

Posted by: Sensible Jones Jan 16 2015, 07:00 PM

I'm in!!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 16 2015, 09:49 PM

Hey mate!!! Welcome back to rock! Thanks a lot for joining this one. I'd like to give some feedback.

I think that there are cool things happening on your solo that can be really rock with some extra work, adjusting some licks, timing and giving everything some more feeling. You tend to play a bit after the beat most of the licks, and I also note that you tend to pick the notes softly. Some of these rocker licks need some more aggression and off course, a wider vibrato.

Let me analyze your phrasing, dividing the solo in smaller parts:

00:00 to 00:09: I think that these 2 phrases are very clear and defined. Just adjust timing, and give a better use of dynamics. In other words, keep the notes, but improve your interpretation. Take care of the last bend, which doesn't reach the pitch smoothly.

00:10 to 00:17: In order to mark better the start of a new phrase, I would let a small silence between this phrase and the previous one. In this part, again timing should be adjusted. The second lick is a bit before the beat so also try to adjust it, and to make the connection between this lick and the ascending higher notes smoother.

00:18 to 00:23: I like the notes choices here.

00:24 to end: Here the solo start to lose direction, and the notes choices seem to become more random. I think that the phrases have a good sense of rhythm but you should re-check the notes to give a more clear direction to this last part of the solo. I note that you start this part repeating many times the note B, (7th fret 1st string). This note is on scale, but it's not the best choice to start or repeat it many times since it's not part of the longer backing chords. Try to stay more on other notes of the scale that are part of A or D chords.


Ok mate, I know that I'm being very deep with the analysis, please don't get scare, just take the things that you can capture now and apply them to your next recordings.








Awesome!! You are more than welcome Mr Jones!

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 16 2015, 10:04 PM

I'll have a go, not promising anything, it's a bit quick for my current skills but what the hell. Let's rock \m/ \m/

Phil

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 16 2015, 10:26 PM

Hello Gabriel !

Cool that you took your time to check my record and thank you for the clear and detailed analyses !

Yes you are a hard mentor but a Good ONE !

I will keep on recoding

Dieter

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 16 2015, 10:28 PM

Hi Phil! Great to know that you'll give this one a try! I can help you with this one. There is no problem with speed because you can play longer and slow licks over it. Give it a try and I will come with some feedback to get the best of you for this collab.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 16 2015, 10:56 PM

I agree with Gab. There is some good stuff in here. I can hear an idea behind you solo's construction and I get the feeling you take us from point A to point B.

I also think you are well on your way with your technique, your hands sound synchronized. Keep working on it and be sure not to miss daily vibrato practicing as well.

When you play faster passages you are often not playing on time. This is dragging down your take a bit.

Also towards the end - I feel your faster passages start to get a bit repetitive, and lose direction as Gab said.

In general your solo would benefit from removing many of those faster passages - and try to find some other alternatives.

Hints: Try pauses, maybe double stops (playing two notes at the same time), maybe some palm muted note, staccato notes (try playing a couple of notes in a row but don't let them ring at all, instead have micro pauses in between them)

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 16 2015, 11:06 PM

hehe cool mate, please check also Kris comments and feel free to post new updates to let us check them.

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 17 2015, 12:07 AM

Dont really know how i should record this. all i really have for a recording device right now is my iphone which works fine for the REC but that wont work this right?

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 17 2015, 08:04 AM

Hey everyone, here's my try at it!

With backing track (2nd Take):
https://soundcloud.com/nick-peacock-7/acdc-collab2-nick6373-w

With backing track (Rough Take)
https://soundcloud.com/nick-peacock-7/acdc-nick6373-b

Without backing track:
https://soundcloud.com/nick-peacock-7/acdc-collab2-nick6373-no

Posted by: huargo Jan 17 2015, 09:15 AM

hi i'm in too
A working progress take... i'll change some notes and i really need to improve my timing. Lot of timing issues...
But cool Baking track. Thanks for this collab


 Acdccollab_wip.mp3 ( 1.53MB ) : 244

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 17 2015, 10:01 AM

We'll get back to you shortly about this.



Very nice - I like your sound a lot, though your guitar level is a bit too high compared to backing (and this brings down the impression of your take).

You start of with some really cool cliché licks that feel perfect for this track!

However at 00:10 and throughout the rest of the take, I feel direction is lacking. And it feels like you were only thinking "licks" when you composed this. Though I must say you do throw in some very tasty licks throughout the whole backing, but these licks feel a bit random to me.

The remedy to this is to try and hear a melody in your head, before taking the guitar in your hand. You can of course still include lots of cliché licks throughout, but there should be a thread throughout your take that originates from a musical idea you got in your head.

If this feels tricky, please consider you can borrow melodies from anywhere - since you will be playing over an original and different backing track, chances are no one will even notice. Also - playing the exact melody you hear in your head can be very difficult, but you don't need to play it note for note - the idea is just to give you a starting point. Actually, the end result does not have to sound anything like what you heard in your head - but listeners will be able to tell your playing originates from a musical idea and not from licks.

Please let me know if this makes sense?

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Jan 17 2015, 10:30 AM

iPhone has a very good potential to be a quality guitar and music recording device.

Please check out these two interesting posts in the other thread where we discuss different options for recording on iOS platform (iPhone, iPad) :

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=53647&view=findpost&p=704068
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=53647&view=findpost&p=704069

Please let me know if this is something you'd be interested in setting up, if so I think instructor Todd Simpson will be able to provide you with details how to go about it as he has first hand experience. From my research, one needs to get an audio interface which plugs into the iPhone to enable high quality recording on this device. You basically get to plug in your guitar into this device and capture it on the phone which is awesome and practical

Now, I'm not sure this can be done for free but I've seen those devices (mostly referring to device/product called iRig) for pretty affordable prices being available.

Do you have possibilities to record on your PC?
This collaboration doesn't require video recording, just audio tracks.

Probably the easiest solution and workaround to go about this would be to record your takes like this using your iPhone :

1. Open the voice memo app in the iphone
2. Put your iphone close to the speakers/guitar amp and try to adjust the volume of the speakers/amp not to be too loud
3. Record your playing over the backing track
4. Post your take here for feedback

Collabs do require also a "guitar only take", for inclusion in the final mix. To do this, you could have your iphone close to your guitar amp or computer speakers but in case of computer speakers you'd need to make sure only guitar is heard there and somehow have the backing track routed, playing on your headphones (you could play the backing track using ipod or similar device in your headphones) ....all this in order to record "GUITAR ONLY" take where there is no backing track heard only guitar.

I'd suggest recording and posting your guitar + backing mix audio first in this thread following steps above to get feedback on your performance and possible improvement suggestions. Once you have your take set in stone, you could try to record the "guitar only" version of it where there is no backing track heard.

In any case, I think you should participate if only by shooting video just like you are used to (in case audio recording is too complicated or doesn't work) - all in order to get feedback here in the thread.

Please let me know if you have any follow up questions or need any help along the way?

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 17 2015, 10:32 AM

I know exactly what you mean I think, and you're 100% right about how I approached making my solo. I just thought of a couple licks I could use (like you said really cliche stuff) and made one or two up.

So adding more melody... Should I remove/shorten one or 2 licks and try bridge my licks with something more melodic that actually works and connects them? In my oppinion melody seems kind of limited using a pentatonic scale... I never really can get anything above average sounding if I want it to sound melodic, especially if I'm using a pentatonic scale.. Any advice?

Thanks!

Posted by: SubbedChris Jan 17 2015, 11:08 AM

I guess idea is to get these Angus super rock sounds using pentatonic licks! Try using A dorian or A mixolydian like huargo did!
You can find many melodies suited for this backing track

Posted by: Procyon Jan 17 2015, 11:47 AM

Oh yeah - this sounds great! If I hopefully manage to find some time I will be in for sure!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 17 2015, 03:27 PM

Hi Nick! Thanks for joining this take! I listened to your take and I agree with Kris about the direction and lack of catchy melodies in your solo. You already have the flashy stuff there, now you need some memorable melodies and use the rocker fast licks to connect them.

When I'm working on polishing a solo I usually take some time to analyze which are the stronger and weaker sections. I use my daw to cut the weaker parts and mute them to work on better ideas there. I repeat this process as many times as it's necessary to get a solo that I completely like. In this case, as you are now looking for more melodic stuff, you could mute everything starting at 00:10 and improvise some melodic phrases with a good use of silences between them. Then, you can turn on the flashy licks, and see where the melodies can be replaced by them, and where the licks can be used to connect them.

About the use of pentatonic for melodies. I don't think that you can't create nice melodies just using pentatonics. A lof of blues lines for both vocals and instruments are usually created focusing on pentatonics, and be sure that many pop and rock songs are mostly based on it.

Some inspiration: http://youtu.be/H8PC1_3fjvs?t=1m49s






Wou! This is really promising! I enjoyed most of the phrases of this solo mate! I like the vibe of your melodies and I think that with some little adjustments this could be an epic solo! There are just some little moments where the solo lacks direction or the note choices don't sound totally cool. I'm talking about this moments:

00:02 to 00:05- The first phrase should have more impact. It starts a bit shy.

00:08 - That repetitive bend. Even if you avoid making it sound as a loop could work.

from 00:20 to 00:25 - Here the note choices are weird.

Other than that, your solo is killer. Looking forward the final version!









Cool! You're welcome!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 17 2015, 03:44 PM

Todd here Your iphone should work fine

One way is probably to use GARAGE BAND on the iphone which costs $5 (five dollars U.S.) it will let you pull in the backing track, and record your track, then export your track only and export your track with the backing. Just mute the backing track when exporting to get a version with just your solo

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/garageband/id408709785?mt=8



You could also use the FREE APP call MTSR for iphone which does multi track recording for iphone Fewer features but FREE!!

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/multi-track-song-recorder/id390599090?mt=8




Hope this helps

Todd

Posted by: huargo Jan 17 2015, 04:01 PM

Thanks for your comments Gabriel, i'm totally agree.
The only thing it's the weird notes in 00:20 to 00:25... i really like the rhythm pattenr in that moment, i don't wanna lose that thing... Are they so bad ?
I'll try to find another with the same pattern.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 17 2015, 04:09 PM

Yeah, I also like the rhythmic pattern. The notes choices in this case is a matter of taste, so if you like them, keep them, but I'd suggest to make the bends more consistent.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 17 2015, 08:46 PM

Hey Huargo,

This was very cool - and it's really fresh to hear a more fusion sounding playing over this super cliché:ish rock backing track.



About this, you can probably get away with the current phrase if you add some more character/expression to it. Maybe pay it a bit more behind the beat, and get a bit bluesier with it. Let us know if you need more suggestions.

I really like super accented pattern starting at 00:10.

I am pretty much on the same page as Gab (except for the bends at 00:08 which didn't strike me as that bad until I saw Gabs comment).

To me - the biggest improvement you can make, is change direction of the chorus part (00:18). You gave us some fusion in the beginning and then you go completely fusion wacko with note choice on the chorus.

I can listen with my "fusion ear" and maybe let it pass, but from a songwriting perspective I would advise you to completely skip the fusion on the chorus and go for a powerful melody only built around strong notes.

I think this would make up for a killer contrast to the first section, that would send shivers down our spine!



You got some great advice from Gab and Chris - try those scales suggested. Or even better - maybe experiment with "unidentified" notes outside of the pentatonic scale and see how they sound to you.

You are likely to land on the notes/scales suggested anyway, but the approach I suggested is more personal and musical than just looking at a new scale diagram.

You could also start by finding some notes from the pentatonic scale which you think work well, and then play "outside" notes just before them. With "outside" notes - I just mean notes that are not in the pentatonic scale (there are many that still sound very strong).

Also remember some of the best sounding choruses out there, just use 1-3 notes from the pentatonic scale over a killer backing track. You have the backing track and the scale... GO!! Sometimes the best melodies will come from just slamming a single note over a cool backing, so maybe you are making things too difficult, running up and down advanced scales?

Maybe you just need to find 1-2 cool notes and bend the hell out of them? Shut the lights, close your eyes - and GO FOR IT!

Let me know if all this makes sense?

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 17 2015, 09:13 PM

Thanks so much for the advice guys!

I'm gonna completely forget my flashier licks and start playing melody over the backing track with mixolydian. After I have something good from it I'll add in some of the licks again. Does this sound like an okay idea?

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 17 2015, 09:18 PM

OK here NUMBER TWO record a bit different .

I recognize that i have to get more on exercising playing in time - timing - an old issue of mine

https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-collab-with-backing-2


https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-collab-no-backing-2

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 17 2015, 10:00 PM

Yes that's exactly how I would do it!

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 17 2015, 10:28 PM

Hey everyone, just wondering if I still have the wrong idea with this take?

https://soundcloud.com/nick-peacock-7/acdc-collab3-nick6373-good-take
(changed to a better take)

Posted by: SubbedChris Jan 17 2015, 10:49 PM

Wow I really like it,congrats!!Though it was on B mixolydian, that thunderstruck bridge lick blew me away and blended nicely

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 17 2015, 11:54 PM

Thanks Chris! I was suprised how nicely the thunderstruck lick blended in tbh

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 18 2015, 10:31 AM

Your playing here is better, and until ~00:14 timing issues are not that frequent. So whatever you did, it worked!

Could you please do more of this and try to get completely rid of the timing issues? Let me know your thoughts!

Soundwise - although your current tone is cool - but it does not work very well with the mix. I suggest reverting to you previous sound which was bright without lots of low frequencies - and therefor made you tone stand out without masking Gab's rhythm guitar.



YEAH!! This is much better - up until the chorus (00:20) it is much smoother and musical - and your choice of tone and licks again is very tasty.

The whole take now is at a much better level - but if you still want to tweak, I would suggest addressing the chorus (starting at 00:20). Here I still get the impression you have stacked a bunch of licks.

It would be really cool if you could play a melody an octave higher up, without lots of licks. Try to emulate some vocal lines by using bends and vibrato.

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 18 2015, 10:53 AM

Hey Kris sure i do more records !

This evening i go for a noter one with the first sound settings .

With the second record i tested my garageband software usually i use the one from zoom g3 .

Posted by: Gill Jan 18 2015, 11:08 AM

great collab, i'll give it a shot.

Posted by: Gill Jan 18 2015, 12:43 PM

here some rough sunday morning ideas.
really rough, need to clean and make everything sound tight but there's plenty of time before the deadline

https://soundcloud.com/motorcitygill/gmcdc-1

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 18 2015, 05:51 PM

Hi mate, great to hear a new take from you. The main problem on this one is timing. The second half of this solo needs to be adjustment so the best would be to work on blocks, and try to play the licks tight with the backing. Another suggestion would be to simplify the trickier parts. There are some licks that have more notes (and faster) that are the ones that have more important timing issues.

I also think that the previous tone had a warmer EQ that fits better with the backing so I would get back to it. The only thing that it was lacking was some sustain, so maybe the same tone with a bit more drive.









Wou!! This is a very cool take man! You could really improve your previous work. I think that all the licks are played very well, you tone is warm and enjoyable, with the right amount of sustain for those licks.

If you would keep it like this it would be great. Just to add some extra feedback that comes to mind:

- The first half is mind blowing. Every new lick makes the solo grow and makes the solo evolve naturally and keeps my attention and enjoyment.

- The second half of the solo is ok, but as you repeat some ideas, and rhythms, the overal excitement decreases a bit. Maybe some more agressive bends, double stop licks, a new epic melody, or something like that could make the job here.

- This can be just a matter of taste, but I'm not totally happy with the note repeated at 00:18. It doesn't sound bad, but I would make some kind of change to avoid the repetition. Maybe a chromatic movement that releases to A)¡?


Ok, once again, your solo is killer! Congratulations.






Hi Gill! Thanks for your take for this one! I think that it's a good first step and that with some work it can be converted into a nice solo. I like the composition until 00:14, it rocker, groovy and has a good sense of melody and phrasing. I also like what happens when the chorus starts until 00:25. The other sections need some more creative ideas and variations, some longer notes, double string bends, faster phrases, or other ideas that can add something different here.

Besides the composing dimension which is not bad, I would make some emphasis on improving your tone, feeling and technique. (Also, take care of your guitar tuning). I feel that you need a warmer tone for this one, work on EQ, try to add bass and mids, or see what happens if you lower treble. Once you are more convinced with what you are playing, take care of how you play it. Be careful with your bending pitches, and try to give your phrasing more vibrato, and dynamics.

Please keep on work these tips and suggestions and share your progress here, it will be a very good training and we will monitor and help all we can.

Posted by: Dieterle Jan 18 2015, 06:27 PM

Hello everyday one record - here it is !

TIMING is real hard but i hope my ears getting better by time .

Gabriel i think i should concentrate - beside this collab - much more on only timing exercises .
I do recognize the rhythm timing but just do not get it into my movements - feeling its kind of strange, like starting to walk .



Ok :

https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-coll-backing-3

https://soundcloud.com/raven-wolffriend/acdc-coll-no-backing

Posted by: Huargo Jan 18 2015, 07:38 PM

Kris Thanks for your comments, are always welcome .
Totally agree with change of the beginning .
Then again I 'm a little reluctant to change the choir parts but tomorrow I will listen with fresh ears and do a little jam with the song to see what happens ... not tell me anything lol.
The good thing about this backing track is that it's hard to get tired of making jams with . lol

On the other hand I would highlight the level of the takes here

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 18 2015, 09:43 PM

Hey guys, so I have an idea for a double stop lick to throw in right after the 20 second mark, but I was wondering if I could get some advice...

 DoubleStopLick.mp3 ( 100K ) : 158

It fits in really nice after 0:21 but I have one problem: I wanna be able to fit in my tapping lick right after the double stops and not have it sound like I just tossed it in there randomly, you know what I mean? I need to connect the two somehow without making it too long... Any ideas?

Thanks!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 18 2015, 11:19 PM

Thanks Gill, its very cool to hear your take.

I think your take is much better than it sounds. What I mean by this is that your licks and solo construction is tasty. And I think your vibrato is a bit unique with Hendrixy vibes. I don't really hear any super serious problems with your playing.

However as Gab said, your sound is working against you! How did you record? I hear some very harsh treble frequencies and possibly some kind of small room reverb that makes your guitar clash with the rest of the mix.

I don't think you have got a lot of work ahead of you to turn this into a decent take, and from there we can work together to make it a killer take!




Agreed, you should definitely work on this. Once fixed it will take your playing up to a new level.

I think at this point - it is more fruitful for you to focus on just timing a couple of weeks. Perhaps using this backing track.

I will discuss this with Gab right away and he'll get back to you. Watch this space!





To make it sound like you didn't throw it in randomly, you probably want the tapping lick to begin where you ended the previous lick. So best is if you can begin the tapping lick without changing position or even lifting your fingers.

I think these kinds of tapping licks are very flexible and you can play them in ascending or descending, and in any scale or arpeggio. This is probably also why Greg uses them so frequently:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Greg-Howe-Tapping/

Posted by: Chris S. Jan 19 2015, 12:13 AM

Sooooo innnnn

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 19 2015, 04:45 AM

Thanks im definitely going to give this a try

Posted by: Beat Zbinden Jan 19 2015, 03:58 PM

This is my first recording!

I'm open for comments.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 19 2015, 04:04 PM

Hi Dieterle. What about working on timing using this backing?

We still have some time until the deadline of this one arrives and I think that we can use it to polish your timing. I have some simple assignments for you that will definitely help you to improve your timing and then be able to record a tighter take.

Let's start working at this thread: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53742

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 19 2015, 04:32 PM

Hi Beat! Thanks for your take. I like your phrasing on this one. There are cool melodies and bends that create a very good impact in the first half of the solo. I think that you have chosen very tasty notes over the different chords and that makes your solo good sounding. Your phrasing is very well structured and except on some little sections where your melodic lines seems to loss a bit direction, the overall solo has a very good evolution.

I think that this is a very strong take and that it just could be improved detecting some of the weaker parts where your phrasing seem to be following the scale instead of a melody, and go for more musical ideas or maybe something that contrasts with other sections. Maybe using some double string bends, harmonics, dynamic variations, and other elements that can add a new dimension to this cool solo.

Also be careful with the pitch of some bends (00:08, 00:20).

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 19 2015, 10:46 PM

 IMG_0724.MOV ( 38.19MB ) : 314

well here is my first crack at it. definitley can be a lot cleaner but im just looking for a little feedback on how it was written before i worry about how clean it is

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 19 2015, 11:27 PM

Hey Beat, this take is yet a good illustration of how tasty your playing and sound is.

However having said this - I am going to disagree with Gab. I think you play veery safe here, to the point that this one feels slightly boring.

Many students here would love to have your level of musicality/tastiness - you have come a long way. But I think the best thing you can do now, is to start working in another direction.

Take some risks, be bold! I would like to see a take from you where we'll reject half of what you're doing as weird/off. Because I think the other half could then be really interesting.

Your music conveys that you are a stable and confident guy - and these are really good attributes. But for rock n roll that touches, we need more than that. Try to think of something that upsets, angers or excites you - or maybe even something that has been traumatic to you. What musical impulses do these feelings give you?

Check out Angus playing, how stable does he look? He is on fire and as stable as a bomb that's about to detonate, I'd say!!

Let me know if this makes sense!



Very cool to have you in Vinman!

I like the construction of this solo - you start out aggressively with the double stop to get some attention and then take the listener away for some cool and unpredictable rhythms - that's my style!!

As you said you could do some polishing (at the end from 00:24).

I really like the chorus part as well, as you go higher up on the neck for bending - it somehow gave me Brian Johnson vibes so you must have done something right there.

The recording quaulity is of course working against you, and the biggest improvement I can hear in my head - would be for you to add some guitar harmonies layers on the chorus to fatten things up. I do realize this might present a technical challenge for you, but should definitely be doable with the iphone.

All in all - I think this is a very strong collab start for you. I hope we'll see you in more!

PS for this kind of quick recording you should use this built in app instead:

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 20 2015, 12:07 AM

Could you maybe give me an example of what you mean about harmony layers

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 20 2015, 10:07 AM

Sorry I meant to write "harmony / layers".

Usually - just recording 1-4 extra takes (playing the exact same thing) and then mixing them low to "fool" the listener so he/she can't really hear those extra layers - is a nice way to create a huge chorus effect.

This technique is used all the time on hits you hear on the radio.

You can also just record 1-2 extra takes instead, and play a harmony - usually going up or down a third in the scale you're playing.

This might sound complicated - but my initial idea was just for you to add some power the chorus melody with an extra guitar layer.

Does it make sense? Please let me know if I managed to explain this!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 20 2015, 11:49 AM

Nice composition Vinman! I also feel connected and enjoying during the whole solo. I like the structure and each lick connects and interact with the following. But not it's time to polish the licks, mostly the second half where the bends are not consistent and your playing is lacking some feeling that can be achieved with more vibrato, slides and dynamics.

About your tone, is this the sound of your video camera mic? If that's what you are using, I think that it's ruining a bit your tone. You should try to use a daw in your computer to then export a mixed track. Let me know if you need help with it.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jan 20 2015, 04:18 PM

Here's a first draft and idea, still some rough spots in there of course:

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 20 2015, 10:07 PM

Hehe awesome to have you in Ben!

To me the structure of this solo is very inspiring and fresh/original. And your tone is killer!

There is nothing "Young" over it though but that was never a requirement either.

Even though I am a big fan of mixing styles, I feel there is a clash happening rhythm wise. To me, you would lift the take to a new level if you could somehow more tightly follow the groove - but still retain your fresh and modern ideas.

You are floating over/around the beat - and this is beautiful. But since you do it all the time - I somehow got the impression the backing and your take were sort of living in parallel universes. I think if you could start by playing close to the groove - then it will be much more effective when you choose to deviate from it.

In order to follow the groove you would play a bit more staccato and try to play exactly when the high hat (or any other drum hit) occurs. Let me know if you need more detailed explanations.

On a different topic - your sustained notes feel untreated (example 00:04). If I were to choose, you would start with a subtle vibrato that gets wider and more intense. If your vibrato is not yet up to the task, use the whammy bar instead.

Let me know what you think about this!

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 21 2015, 03:34 AM

not complicated at all actually that makes a lot of sense. Thank you


ya i might need help with that not sure what you mean

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 21 2015, 12:58 PM

Good playing on this one Cael! I also think that your take is very unique and unexpected for this backing. I like the "mysterious" feel that your phrases have, mostly in the first half.

This is just a opinion based on my taste, but I don't feel that the sweeps used when the E chord is played connect well with the previous and following phrases. This can be something related to the technique, which becomes aggressive, but maybe also because of the rhythm used that contrasts too much with the other melodies.

Just before that, I would work a bit more the following two phrases. They are close, but I know that you can make them even more interesting.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 22 2015, 04:00 PM

So who's next?!

Posted by: Beat Zbinden Jan 22 2015, 06:10 PM

After many hours ...
I have a new version.
I think this is a little more rock'n'roll..
After your comments i work harder at the timing and precision...

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 22 2015, 09:40 PM

Many hours of fun, by the sound of it!

To me the new version definitely has more attitude. And I personally like how you play more staccato, it sounds more like Angus (again - that is certainly is not a requirement, but over this kind of backing it's hard not to compare).

Ending is a very cool example of how to build climax, well done!

If you want to tweak more, there are some details audible:

00:19 - bend feels a little late, or was this on purpose?
00:28 missed note

As a general comment, all bends could us of a bit more accuracy, so if bending is not already in your daily practice routine I would suggest you add it.

I should probably clarify that your take feel very polished already, so no real need to tweak it further unless you have got more hours to kill! Well done!

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Jan 23 2015, 04:36 PM

https://soundcloud.com/spasemoonkey/agmc-test-run

Rip it to shreds guys. Everything from me strumming the e-power chord on was just winged, not sure how I feel about going on the 2nd half.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 23 2015, 11:29 PM

Very nice Spase. Lots of energy coming from this take and really cool tone. I think I know part of the reason, where you using the profiler? What profile? =)

Solo construction wise - you are well on your way and with some tweaks this will sound awesome.

You do a very good job until 00:25. The only minor exception would be the short phrase at 00:12-00:14 . I think the idea is good but it sounds a little tame after your cool intro. See if you can add some more expression to it (slide, bend vibrato) - alternatively think of another lick.

At 00:25 it feels like you ran out of ideas, since you end in the middle of what would be the chorus/climax. To me this feels like the wrong place to have a pause. You should give your everything here and intensify the super cool, high-pitched chorus melody you cam up with for the chorus. I think that all you need to do is give it some more time and you will figure this part out.

Playing wise the most important fix you can do relates to timing. You are almost consistently slightly ahead of the beat, rushing things (the slow section starting at 00:18 feels better though). I assume your take is correctly aligned with the backing track?

Good news is - since you are consistently ahead of the beat - you probably have pretty good timing. But for some reason you stressed things. I tend to do this when I record something without being prepared enough, simply because I get nervous.

Since this is quite an issue for me, I try to do some mental exercises where I tell myself:

* try to play behind the beat, chances are you will land in between (spot on in other words). If you do end up playing behind the beat, it usually sounds much better than playing ahead of it (and many times actually better than playing on the beat).

* Try to relax and not care about the outcome of your recording, just play for fun. This sure is harder than it sounds. But after all - you can just delete your take if you didn't like it.

* Finally the safest method, is probably to practice the whole thing until you know it in and out. You will then relax because you're comfortable with your ability.

Let me know if this makes sense? I am really excited to hear the final version!

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Jan 24 2015, 12:31 PM

Oh you know it. I love that little lunch box to death! The profile I started with was the "Boogie MARKIIC+ JP2 by Djemass" Added some reverb and changed the definition a bit to make it less shrill pick attack.




00:12-00:14 - I'm thinking using a variation of the lick from around the 00:30 mark and tossing it in there. Try and lead into the build up of that 00:18 section.

It's a single raw take, no eq or anything on my lead except the input of my kemper. I was jamming about 2 hours left did some running came back did a few runs and decided to give it a shot to get some ideas. As that 00:25 spot really has me scratching my chin. I go from the great intro and I'm trying to figure out how to give it more dynamics as I went all out there. I could attempt doing 2 solo tracks. Get the first section leading to it, then from there in maybe give a slight slide in some where to give it the feel of possible 2 guitarist.



I've gotten way better over the years with being on beat and listening to drums or tossing a louder metronome over the track and cutting down the backing to hear what I need in the mix. But I have a tendency which you are 100% spot on with. I click that little record button and drop down into I feel I need to think about everything I'm doing. From the finger movement to how hard I push a string.

I still have some time so we shall jam on this a bit everyday and see where it gets me!

Much thanks for all the input Kris!

Posted by: Procyon Jan 24 2015, 05:00 PM

So this is what I am working on... it's not perfect (probably it will never be ) - but I think you get the idea. I definitely need to practice that stupid run around 00:17

Posted by: Huargo Jan 24 2015, 07:08 PM

Hi
Two versions:
  One the same as above but with the arrangements discussed...
  The other with a final more acdc...

which do you prefer to continue working?



Hi Procyon nice take !!!

 Acdccollab_wip03A.mp3 ( 1.57MB ) : 141

 Acdccollab_wip03B_rock.mp3 ( 1.57MB ) : 146

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 24 2015, 11:20 PM

Wow hard to give anything but praise here. Energy and tone is awesome. And this kind of picking tone is what you get when you dig deep into the strings (opposite of the kind of motion used for speed picking) - and it's soo tasty (Clapton and Eric Johnson are two examples of this kind of picking).

Your tone is gorgeous and has an elastic feel, what gear did you use?

There are some technical stuff you could improve, but I wouldn't really go in and mess with such a cool take if I were you.

There are some places where hand sync could be improved (when you play faster). It can be heard because when you nail the sync you have awesome picking tone (as mentioned above), one example at 00:05 (it's very subtle)

At 00:16 and possibly 00:31 we can hear missed notes.

Your vibrato is on the 'narrow' side, but it sounds perfect for this style. For a more ballad kind of solo I would go for something wider, but that is definitely off topic!

As you can hear, I cant really say anything else to say but bravo!



Hey Huargo - in this case I think it's obvious you have a different vision that us (Gab and me). Because I find your previous take better than these two - and this usually happens when we're working in a direction we do not really believe in.

You do touch upon some cliché licks in the chorus of the second take, but again I can hear it is not really what you want to play there.

So what do? Well - be yourself! After all, this is music and all we can do as instructors is to pep you to be yourself. We really shouldn't try to change your direction. I think you are hearing somethign very specific over this backing which we don't.

You are being very adventurous in your style and it's clear you have a beast within you, and when you have learned to tame it you will scare us all! I think you are going a straight path towards originality, so please just keep going!

I will let you decide if you want to tweak this any further or keep your original take.

Posted by: Huargo Jan 25 2015, 01:26 AM

Jajajaja ok still time to make more takes.
I like know your opinions about the solos and i think it's good try diferents things. The final result it's not the only important thing here IMO. I like to test things and learn. Thanks

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 25 2015, 02:44 AM

ok same deal its sloppy but this is my second take. i changed the second half just looking for opinions on it before i do the final take...which will be clean of course lol

just to let you know btw i ust listened to it and the timing is off a bit. i used that MTSR app on my phone butwhen i mixed the tracks together i think they shifted somehow. try to ignore the off time if you can thanks

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 25 2015, 02:36 PM

Excellent, now the second half of the solo sounds really good as well. You have effectively nailed the structure!

I do hear the off time problem, the whole take is ahead of the beat (which drags down the general impression).

The off time excepted, I get the impression you play really well here. The only thing that stood out to me was a note at 00:34 which sound a little off pitch wise. I can't really comment on your timing because of the off time problem.

Very well done!

Posted by: Procyon Jan 25 2015, 03:34 PM

Thanks a lot Kris for your feedback - I really appreciate it! You're always doing a great job analyzing our takes and pointing out what and where to improve - I really learn a lot just by reading your suggestions not only concerning my own takes. Of course I will try to eliminate those weaker parts and hopefully upload the final version in some days.

For this take I used my Gibson SG Future Tribute and some slightly modified virtual amp in Garage Band (connected by a Presonus Audiobox USB Interface).

@ Huargo: Thank you! And I really like your takes (especially the first one) with your unconventional approach - it's amazing!

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 25 2015, 09:01 PM

Thank you i spent the whole day learning Angus young solos for inspiration. ill get to work on my final take

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 25 2015, 09:33 PM

Hehe excellent strategy. That's the kind of stuff we tend to do when working with others (in a collab, band etc) - and this is why our collaborations are so important!




Cool to know this software is so capable. And the fact that everyone with a mac has access to it, makes it even better!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 26 2015, 01:34 PM

I just realised the backing track does not start precisely on bar 1 beat 1. So if you had problems playing the backing with the metronome in your DAW this could be the explanation.

I would suggest everyone uses http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=40672 fixed backing track instead. Thanks - and sorry for the inconvenience!

PS I am currently trying to record my own take, and I am really inspired by what you guys came up with!

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 26 2015, 10:10 PM

hey kris, you metioned to me about doing multiple takes playing the same thing to beef it up. the ending solo of walk this way by aerosmith would be an example of that correct? like thats the sound you want me to replicate?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 26 2015, 10:38 PM

I checked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk version out and I couldn't hear any obvious mutiple takes.

Check out this tune with Ben and me and you will find a lot of layering, for example the sections starting at 2:18 and 4:16



Do you see what I mean? Several guitars are playing both harmonies and in unison.

Posted by: Beat Zbinden Jan 27 2015, 02:49 PM

My third version!
I think this is the finish version!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 27 2015, 04:27 PM

Excellent Beat, this sounds great and you have effectively fixed these two comments:



Well done!

Posted by: GeneT95 Jan 27 2015, 11:34 PM

Well its been a while. Starting to play with a purpose again after a fair long time. Here is my take. I got a bit lazy figuring out how to get a good take in my DAW and never got up to fetch a pick. I didn't like some parts of a mediocre tone...... And somehow, after I listened to it, I comped a likeness to an original line. Not really intended. Musta been in my subconscious as I tried call up some Angus spirit.

With Backing
https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/acdc1-gt2/s-4toXX

And without
https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/acdc1-gtraw2/s-jsVin

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 28 2015, 09:57 AM

Hey Gene - awesome to have you in!!

This is a cool take with a musical structure, you also have some interesting phrasing going on (particularly in the beginning). Some comments:

* The beginning (and ending) is always super important - and the very first note you play is off timing wise, you play it slightly too late. This can be ok if done purposely, but your note is too close to the beat to be perceived as played there on purpose.

* Your timing is better in the first part, than in the chorus (starting at 00:19) - this might be because your chorus lead is played faster and therefor requires more practicing. This is a general comment for the whole second part - and since you nail the first section I would assume all you need is more practicing time.

Your tone sounds fine to me, though possible tweaks could be:

* This tone is pretty "warm" (without too much treble/top end) - I personally love this kind of sound but it can have problems 'cutting through' when there are treblish rhythm guitars in the mix. So what usually happens is that we try to compensate for this by turning the volume of the guitar lead up, and this usually ruins the mix and general impression. So the general rule is for treblish (rock/metal) backings, we also need to treblish lead tone.

This backing track does not have an extreme amount of top end, but still enough. I want to clarify that as long a student takes are somewhat in the ballbark (which you are), then EQ problems can be fixed in the mix easily.

For those wondering - treblish = lots of treble. Did I just make up a word?

* Try adding more gain and see if you like it, it can give a smoother flow to the faster passages.

All in all - very well done and great to have you on board! Please let me know if this makes sense (perhaps I got a bit technical with all the 'treble' talk?)

Posted by: GeneT95 Jan 28 2015, 04:43 PM

Hey Kris, Thanks for the comments.

Yeah I missed the first beat. I think I short tracked it......meaning I didn't let the backing track start from the very beginning and probably got caught. I did, though, play off the first beat in the ending, near 0.32. I think somewhere 'around' the snare, ?second beat. In any case, although I thought it gave a somewhat slowing/retarding sound into the finish, it was forced and didn't turn out as well as I would like. I need some practice in my DAW, so I'll probably practice some punch in/out recording and overdub that section with some different 'feels' and structure change, but I wanted to submit a one shot take rather than carving out what I didn't like.

As far as the tone, I'm in transition with gear, so I pretty much recorded a cleanish guitar into the DAW and used a free distortion plugin. Honestly, it was awful. The high end alone was enough to cause seizures. So, using the free amp tonestack, I pushed the mids and dropped some bass and treble then added them back in with a 8 band eq plugin positioned after the distortion plugin. I couldn't add more gain even though I knew the notes did not have a more(better) fluid nature. More gain with my setup was definitely undesirable. So I added a smidge of delay (75msec at about 15%) and even less reverb at 7% with a somewhat small room setting.

As far as cutting, I did (although not sure if that is allowed) increase the volume of the backing track slightly in the second part, having it rise and impart more energy into the section with the solo. And I thought the cymbals/snare and perhaps the rhythm guitar was fairly bright, so instead of adding to it with a brighter solo, I tried to give the solo guitar its own place in the mix with a higher midrange tone. That and too much treble via headphones starts to make my brain bleed after a while.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 28 2015, 05:36 PM

Anything but dynamite is ok to use here!! Thanks for a cool reply!

I think your sound should work in the final mix!

I recorded my take! I was inspired by all your creative takes (use of double stops, weird note choice etc) - and I also tried to add some new ideas like the use of whammy bar on the bridge section.

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Jan 28 2015, 07:17 PM

*Sets the guitar down and walks away*

Welp I'm done! This is just flat out incredible!

Posted by: Nick6373 Jan 28 2015, 07:30 PM

Wow, awesome job Kristofer!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 28 2015, 08:27 PM

Hehe thanks guys, and I certainly hope there will be no putting down guitars because of my take. You are all guilty as I got my inspiration when commenting your takes!

Posted by: Procyon Jan 28 2015, 08:52 PM

@Kris: This really made me laugh - you're one crazy guy for sure! I wish I could play like this... Awesome take!!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 28 2015, 11:02 PM

Hehe thanks man! Someone told me the only thing lacking is my dance...so maybe I should have some of that in the next vid

If you want to get into this style (which I call groovy shred) these two lessons cover similar licks. The idea is not (necessarily) to learn the entire solos, but instead grab bits here and there to enhance your own playing. And I think you will be able to make use of it in your style (which is already awesome btw!)

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bouncy-Fun-Lesson/
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/lesson-no-1000/

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 29 2015, 04:41 PM

So do we have any new takes coming in?

Posted by: bleez Jan 29 2015, 09:27 PM

Yup

Here's where Im at with my attempt -
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/a-gmc-collab

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 29 2015, 09:39 PM

Hello everyone,

Sorry I'm so late coming in on this, had a few life issues to deal with

Anyway, here is my first take, it's obviously pretty darn poor but I'm hoping you can help me to build on it. As I was just winging it you will hear a few places where I get a mental block But hey, this time last year I wouldn't have had the courage to put anything on here for anyone to listen to but now I'm open to anything

My problem is I don't have many improvising hours under my fingers and I don't have much in the way of a lick library

[attachment=40701:AGMC_colab29012015.wav]

Cheers all.

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 29 2015, 11:28 PM

Awesome Bleez, this is super well constructed and sounding! You play within your range and this is always a wise move.

Somewhere around 00:27 is where I feel interest is dropping. But I think it is just a matter of you finishing your work in progress? (Don't let me bother ya )

Let me know if you need some ideas from me? At this point (~00:27) it would be good to intensify things and bring the listener to a climax - pick more aggressively, higher pitch, faster/wider vibrato etc

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 29 2015, 11:54 PM

Cool, this is very promising and you have already established the foundation of your take. It takes us from point A to point B already - and this is the whole purpose with guitar solos.

As you hinted you just need to refine your ideas to make them more interesting - but still keep the foundation. You start with well defined single note phrases, then some cool slides on the bridge section, and double stops on chorus - perfect!



BUT - I bet you have listened to music for a long time? That's what matters!

I suggest when practicing the solo, try *only* playing the parts you are happy with. Don't play anything over the sections where you feel you should come up with a better idea.

When I have done this a bunch of times, my brain starts suggesting different solutions (phrases). I guess my brain thinks guitarists should be playing all the time

Anyway - what I end up playing is usually not what my brain heard, simply because I am not skilled enough to play exactly what I hear in my head. But I have come to realize this can be a good thing. Because when my physical limitations meet the boundless ideas of my brain - it forces me into new, unpredictable solutions. And that's what music should be about.

Let me know if this makes sense - and how it works out for you.

Posted by: Procyon Jan 30 2015, 03:40 PM

These two lessons are awesome! Yet a bit too high for my level but as you mentioned I will grab some licks and ideas - thanks a lot!

And next video with dance please - can't wait to see it!

Posted by: bleez Jan 30 2015, 06:40 PM

thanks dude I hear what you are saying, I'll try to knock it up a notch from the 27 second mark

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 31 2015, 04:30 PM

Anyone else wants to give this one a go?

Posted by: Sensible Jones Jan 31 2015, 07:35 PM

I'll have mine up tomorrow!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 31 2015, 08:56 PM

Great - looking forward to it!

Posted by: Rhida Feb 1 2015, 07:58 AM

My take now after some work on my timing issues with my friends Gab and Dieterle!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 1 2015, 02:39 PM

Exellent Rhida, this is probably the best take I have ever heard from you! At several occasions you play in time - and when you do you stand a chance you build melody. And as I have always said, your solo construction skills are good. But you need to get the basics down before those ideas will tranlsate into music.

You need to continue the "ground work" you are currently doing with Gab (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53742). If you keep being as serious as you have been the last weeks to improve this, I think we might be looking at just 1-3 months and you will be able to start submitting musical, and enjoyable takes.

I have been monitoring your progress, and currently you do nail the quarter notes but the 8th are too fast for you to play them evenly. There is absolutely no other way to solve this than to decrease speed *substantially* and then gradually build up. Gab will get back to you about this.

Please keep it up! If you do, I predict you will be one of the coolest success stories here!

Posted by: Rhida Feb 1 2015, 03:59 PM

Thanks Kris for your support and kind words.
Much appreciated here!
I will definitely keep working on my skills with my great mentor Gab!

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 1 2015, 07:34 PM

Here's another take. Might be my final take...we'll see.

Posted by: lothomer Feb 1 2015, 09:11 PM

Hi there ACDC collab mates, here comes my quick take for the collab. ACDC fun stuff.
After beeing back home late last night and a lot of coffee (i mean a lot) this morning
here comes my quick take for the ACDC collab.

Equipment used
Tube Thomsen 5161 40 Combo, Channel II
Bogner Harlow Compressor as boost.
Guitar: Lipe Ivo HB

Hope that'll work for you

Keep on rockin!
 ACDC_Collab_MIX.wav ( 13.46MB ) : 250
 Guitartrack_solo.wav ( 3.53MB ) : 98
Che
erz
Olli

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 1 2015, 11:46 PM

Yeah!! This one put a smile on my face. Though your take is very metal sounding, there are bluesier/groovier insinuations in there - and that mix of styles is right up my alley.

The structure here is catchy and cool. I would probably think more about the ending (starting 00:28) and possibly get a bit more melodic during the chorus (starting at 00:18) and have less shred there.

Also - I think an important long term goal for you is to work on your vibrato, this will lift your playing to a whole new level. Better vibrato is needed both in this and your previous take.

Also I feel this take had a better connection with the track rhythmically, well done! However I must say I also miss the tone and the ideas (starting 00:14) from your previous take - it had some fresh ideas.

Argh I want to have my cake and eat it... but don't know if it's possible in Denmark.



Awesome to hav you in Olli!

Your tone is amazing! However, in your rakes I can hear some (cool!) bass-heavy chugging. This sounds brutal when soloing the guitar but it usually makes it harder to fit lead guitar in the mix (though it can work with rhythm guitar in some cases). This might be the reason why your guitar is sort of sitting above the mix.

No urgent need to fix this though, as it can be done "in the mix" with decent results.

You solo construction is great and the way you balance the use of those bluesy notes is sooo tasty, very well done! The only thing that stood out in a negative way was the timing of the first (bent) note of the chorus (starting 00:17-00:18). I think you played it earlier than intended.

All in all this is a great take - I'll leave it up to you if you want to polish more!

Posted by: lothomer Feb 2 2015, 12:03 AM

Awesome to hav you in Olli!

Your tone is amazing! However, in your rakes I can hear some (cool!) bass-heavy chugging. This sounds brutal when soloing the guitar but it usually makes it harder to fit lead guitar in the mix (though it can work with rhythm guitar in some cases). This might be the reason why your guitar is sort of sitting above the mix.

No urgent need to fix this though, as it can be done "in the mix" with decent results.

You solo construction is great and the way you balance the use of those bluesy notes is sooo tasty, very well done! The only thing that stood out in a negative way was the timing of the first (bent) note of the chorus (starting 00:17-00:18). I think you played it earlier than intended.

All in all this is a great take - I'll leave it up to you if you want to polish more!
[/quote]


Hi Kristofer,
thank you. The recording was done in the rehearsal room of my band - directly out of the FOH System, didn't care to much about the bass this morning. I can try to redo the recording more properly during the week. This just a matter of time (between family, company and rehearsals).

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 2 2015, 06:16 PM

Thanks for the comments, Kris. I do realize I'm more of a metal guy than AC/DC rock, and it reflects in my next take as well, which when I listen back to it, it doesn't seem like it knows if it wants to be metal or rock. Let me know what you think. I also changed the tone a bit:

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 2 2015, 11:22 PM

Very nice, I think you fixed both of these:



I got an idea related to my previous comment:



Instead of thinking long term bla bla goal, what if you just think of vibrato here as bending a half step up and down with eighth note timing?

Does that make sense? If you try it, how does it sound?

To start off, you could do it with quarter note timing if that feels easier.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 2 2015, 11:54 PM

It's just been ages since I worked on my vibrato, but it's something I'd definitely like to work on. The way I think about it is pretty much this:



I'm just not very good at it, mind you.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 3 2015, 10:21 AM

This video explains it well.

The reason I suggested this is because I think you have the bending skills needed to do this:



And it should sound better than what you are doing currently vibrato-wise, because the vibrato in your take almost has no depth - so we can't really hear it. To me it it rather makes the note sound unstable and slightly out of tune.

But if you think of it as a half step bend, there will be plenty of "depth". And it will sound like you meant to do a vibrato.

Does it make sense?

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 3 2015, 03:51 PM

It's funny, cause if I solo without a backing track I tend to do quite wide vibrato I feel, but I definitely hear what you mean when in a context of a backing track. I'll try and work on it

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 3 2015, 09:48 PM

Deadline is approaching. Any more takes?

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 3 2015, 10:29 PM

OK, this is the first time I've been on this since the last time, had so much going on lately. As time is short I kept the original and added near the end. Hope it's ok to do this. I've only managed ten minutes tonight but will work hard tomorrow if you can guide me.

[attachment=40778:AGMC_col...03022015.wav]

[attachment=40779:AGMC_col...03022015.wav]

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 4 2015, 09:33 AM

Thanks Phil the ending is improved indeed.

If you want to further improve your take - then at this stage the best advice I can give to you is to rehearse the entire solo as much as you possibly can.

Because I can hear that the parts you are comfortable with sound good - so this is a clear indication you just need more time.

If possible, I would suggest you practice playing over the backing track with full concentration for ~20 minutes. Then take a break for ~10 minutes.

During this break you can either do something completely different, or practice some technique related thing (for example a tricky lick from your take etc) - but the point is that you should not use your brainpower during the break.

When you come back after the break, practice the solo again with full attention for another 20 minutes. Make it sound as good as possible.

I have found that such practice is most effective for me. And actually 1 hour with this kind of practicing is more effective than 2 hours where I push myself, even though my brain looses focus.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 4 2015, 09:47 AM

Thank you Kristofer,

I will try what you said, the problem is most of it was completely improvised and I can't remember exactly what I did and my ear isn't good enough to work it out

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 4 2015, 09:48 AM

That is fine as well. Then you should apply the same kind of practicing (described above) but with improvisation. This can be very fun!

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 4 2015, 10:10 PM

Oh dear,

This evening I just can't get anything anywhere near my last take, I'm just playing monotonous junk I'm even struggling to play my last take as it was completely improvised and I can't remember or work out some of the parts

Sorry.

Posted by: Vinman56 Feb 5 2015, 04:20 AM

idk if this is too late but here is my final take. hope you like it

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 5 2015, 10:05 AM

Very cool, your takes have evolved into something really good.

And I am big sucker for those staccato notes you throw in throughout the take (I assume you do it by muting the notes shortly after pick strike with your right hand thumb, and/or depressing with fretting hand finger), they make the whole thing groove and clearly shows you're in control.

When you have reached this level of control, you can start playing behind the beat and make it sound really cool and intentional.

As for improvements - the fast passage and bent note at 00:33 feels a little thin and lacks sustain. However this could partly be because of the sound / recording quality. No need to fix anything at this stage though, you have done a fantastic job. Congratulations!

----

Any more takes anyone? Today is the last day!

Posted by: Procyon Feb 5 2015, 08:05 PM

Here is my final take - finally! I really wasn't sure if I would be able to record this without loosing my hair (or my mind or something else...). There were always some heavy crackling noises in my recordings - so I deleted the actual take and tried again endlessly - I think I dit it some thousand times (at least it felt like this...) but it was getting even worse!
So before smashing my gear thru the window I luckily decided to export one take and listened to it using my other headphones - and magically all the noise has gone! Hmmmmm - it may not be the best version now, but at least I have one!

@Vinman56: Your take is awesome!

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2015, 09:28 PM

Ok here is my final attempt, the deadline is here. Been tricky but fun, thanks

[attachment=40807:AGMC_col...05022015.wav]

[attachment=40808:AGMC_col...05022015.wav]

Not the best I know but it's a fast one for me.

Cheers folks.

Phil

Posted by: Sensible Jones Feb 5 2015, 09:50 PM

Ok, here's mine. It's a bit 'relaxed' in places!!


https://soundcloud.com/neilwaller/acdc
https://soundcloud.com/neilwaller/acdc-nbt

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 5 2015, 11:48 PM

Wow nothing much I can say here, but BRAVO! This is like a showpiece, they way you throw rhrythms around in a groovy and unpredictable manner, blend staccato with sustained notes, double stop melodies, your Garage Band (!!) tone, and noisy rock 'n roll ending...just wow!

Some incredible takes in this collab



Thanks Phil. For every take in this collab it got better - and the level to start with was already good. So you can be proud of what you did here.

As mentioned earlier, I can tell you are able to fix mistakes and improve by yourself - so you "just" need to find whatever inspires you to play as much as possible, and you are guaranteed to go in the right direction!

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2015, 11:52 PM

Thank you Kris, or do you prefer Kristofer?,
I have only done two collabs but I think they really help to understand musicality.
Cheers
Phil

Posted by: Vinman56 Feb 5 2015, 11:57 PM

Thx man i appreciate it. This is my first colab. its cool to hear how many different ideas and rythyms people can hear out of the same backing track. youre take has a very different feel from mine but rocks all the same. awesome job! cant wait to hear the final outcome of this colab

...btw i feel you on the frustration. it took me abut 100 times last night to nail it and i still think it could be a little better. luckily it was a rock collab so you can take your anger out on the solo. if this was a smooth jazz theme forget about it. i had no chance lol

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 6 2015, 12:16 AM

Very nice! Relaxation didn't bother me here, on the contrary - I would probably have included some "less busy" sections, as you were constantly hitting it.

However the solo construction is good and you take us from point A to point B, and I can tell you are comfortable in this genre. I definitely got Angus vibes!

If you had submitted your take earlier I would have encouraged you to work more on the section around ~00:28 - since the theme starts to get repetitive here. This is no real biggie though, and your take will sound cool in the final medley.

Also, your guitar is mixed a bit loud - so when we'll adjust levels in the final mix it will further improve your take.

All in all - very well done!




Either is fine but I prefer Kris!

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 6 2015, 12:47 AM

By the way, Kris, it's been great seeing you very active in this collab, and it's been a pleasure receiving comments from you along the way I'm sure everyone else feels the same way!

Posted by: Sensible Jones Feb 6 2015, 01:30 PM

Thanks Kris, I would have liked to tighten it up (only a little bit) and I did have a Pull-off lick, think Thunderstruck, but couldn't get the placement right. It always came out sounding like it was a separate pert from the rest of the ideas.


Couldn't agree more!!

Posted by: Procyon Feb 6 2015, 02:16 PM

Thanks a lot, Kris! This collab was great fun and your well-founded comments on all the different takes are sooo helpful and inspiring. Especially for someone like me who never took one single guitar lesson this is absolutely priceless - you are a great teacher!


Haha - yes! Sometimes anger is quite helpful to play hardrock



So do I (see my comment above)!

Posted by: bleez Feb 6 2015, 08:50 PM

sorry dudes, my internet is down at home, it has been since wednesday, I cant really get anything uploaded. If you need to mix the take without me thats totally cool. Im hoping to be back online soon but I dunno......... British Telecom dont seem to be able to work their internets at the moment

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Feb 6 2015, 09:06 PM

Both: [attachment=40815:ACDC_GMC_BT_S.wav]
Solo: [attachment=40816:ACDC_GMC_Solo_Only.wav]

4 Guitars and a restringing later this is the best I got.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 6 2015, 10:21 PM

Thanks Spase, and well done! The chorus section now flows much better.

Playing wise you did good, and my only two comments are:

* 00:04 - the idea is cool but the fast burst a bit choppy and feels "squeezed" in. I would probably have held my horses a little bit here in order to be able to intensify the solo later on. If you start really busy, it can be hard to bring the listener to a climax.

* 00:13-00:14 no real biggie but it's the only audible missed note and it's a high pitched one.

On a general comment your playing and ideas are very promising, you are able come up with good stuff. In order to make your leads really shine, you need to be more selective and think "less is more". Play a little less, skip the so-so stuff and give yourself some extra time to polish the remaining strong ideas.

I am looking forward to see how your lines will improve!



Thanks so much for saying this Ben, Sensible and Procyon!

My hope for these collabs is for you to realize that you already have what it takes to write killer material.

You should of course keep working on your technique and lessons, but gradually work more on the kind of things we have been discussing here.

In the end what matters is not who spent most time practicing, but who made the smartest use of their abilities vs weaknesses. Since this is highly individual, the only way to really get better at it - is by making music with other people and getting feedback.

Many people are scared of getting feedback, so just by participating in these collabs you are giving yourself a huge advantage over most other learning guitarists.

So congratulations again - to everyone who participated!

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 6 2015, 10:45 PM

My pleasure, Kris. The more feedback the better imo!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 7 2015, 04:38 PM

Hey guys! Thanks everybody for joining this one! I'll start downloading your takes right now to see what we have and to begin to visualize how to organize the mix. But I can say that this is VERY promising.

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Feb 7 2015, 05:56 PM

Found some free time this morning before I head out.

https://soundcloud.com/spasemoonkey/acdc-gmc-bt-s

 ACDC_GMC_Solo_Only.wav ( 10.35MB ) : 136

Posted by: Dieterle Feb 7 2015, 09:09 PM

Ok i do show up here before time is running out

my timing privat lesson will keep some more time -- looks like ..

[attachment=40833:Gab_Fun_2_120gpm.mp3]



without backing

[attachment=40834:Gab_Fun_...out_back.mp3]

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 9 2015, 10:19 PM

Yeah!! Well done Spase. You managed to improve it further in the last minute, love the fast lick at 00:14!



During the first part (0-00:17) the are several parts were you play without timing issues, so you are going in the right direction!

Please keep up with Gabs practice regime, as mentioned in your mentor thread there is no doubt we have found the problem now. But since you have had quite some time of learning the wrong way, progress will feel slow. But trust it will well worth it!

When done, we'll be able to start working on the musical stuff - and I will be able to comment on your solo construction etc. I am looking forward to it!

Posted by: Dieterle Feb 11 2015, 09:05 PM

THANK YOU, KRIS !

I am looking forward to it, too

Posted by: SubbedChris Feb 13 2015, 04:35 AM

Will there be a final version of all who participated??

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 13 2015, 09:04 AM

Yes! Gab is working on it

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 15 2015, 03:15 PM

Hello everybody! After many hours of work I'm proud to share the final work of this amazing collab! There were lots of killer solos on this one and this show that both the GMCers and Kris have done a great job here.

So this is the final masterpiece

Order of Appearance:

Gabriel Leopardi (Rhythm guitar & intro phrase)
SubbedCris (Lead guitar)
Phil66 (Lead guitar) + Dieterle (Rhythmic delay arrangement)
Beat Zbinden (Lead guitar and Kirk Hammet’s Wah Wah auto pan)
Lothomer (Lead guitar)
Sensible Jones (Lead guitar)
Rhida (Lead guitar)
Caelumamittendum (Lead guitar)
SpaaseMonkey (Lead guitar)
GeneT95 (Lead guitar)
Vinman (Lead guitar)
Procyon (Lead guitar)
Bleez + Nick6373 (Guitar battle)
Kristofel Dahl (Lead guitar)


 AGMC_Final_Mix.mp3 ( 9.22MB ) : 577

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 15 2015, 04:24 PM

Awesome work, Gabriel! Thanks for this I really enjoyed listening to all the takes in this. Congratulations on a job well done, everybody!

Posted by: bleez Feb 15 2015, 04:24 PM

what an amazing final mix. incredible job, Gab sounds fantastic.
great solos, guys.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 15 2015, 04:34 PM

Brilliant Gab, these collabs are brilliant. It really gives encouragement hearing your own piece in something that sounds so professional..

I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone when I say it's really appreciated what you gentlemen do at GMC. Thank you so much and well done everyone.

Now onto the funky collab, that's a tricky one

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Procyon Feb 15 2015, 07:03 PM

Wow, this is absolutely AWESOME! What a great mix you made, Gab! Thanks a lot! It is really amazing how every single take fits perfectly to create a great song. GMC rocks!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 15 2015, 11:15 PM

The final result is nothing but amazing, this goes again to show how hard you guys rock!

Thanks to everyone who participated!

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Feb 15 2015, 11:51 PM

WOW guys - this is really amazing! I'm literally blown away how everyone played so well and how high the quality of this music piece as a "song" is. All the takes blend so well with each other and give the song justice.

I'm having this on loop

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Feb 16 2015, 07:40 AM

Awesome final result, I really enjoyed to hear all the takes together! Congrats to everyone!

Posted by: Rhida Feb 16 2015, 02:17 PM

Just excellent!

Congrats Gab for putting all this stuff together and make it work! The sound and mixing are amazing!
And Kris thanks a lot for your patience and support!

Posted by: GeneT95 Feb 17 2015, 05:26 PM

Fantastic work Gab. That's impressive. The amount of time you must have took to arrange the track is a fine testament to the the site's dedication. I haven't really been a member long, just a couple of weeks despite my original sign up date, but find the efforts of site contributors and admins incredible.

Thanks.

Posted by: Sensible Jones Feb 18 2015, 04:34 PM

Wow!! This turned out brilliantly!!
Congrats everyone and what a great job Gab!!!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 19 2015, 01:44 PM

Thanks guys for the comments! You did an amazing job on this one and I'm really happy with the final mix. I think that we have a great song here! Congrats everybody.

Posted by: Nick6373 Mar 7 2015, 01:21 AM

Wow I can't believe I'm just seeing this!
This turned out amazing!

Great job everyone and thank you.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 11 2015, 02:11 PM

hehehe yeah! this tune is amazing, I keep it in my playlist.