7th Chord Progressions And Modes
MrVegas
Feb 28 2020, 02:13 AM
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hello, I'm practicing some chord progressions and modes, I understand how to build major and minor chords and know where my modes are. and I'm trying to understand the theory behind it all.
when your in a major key the I chord can be a major7th the ii, iv, and vi can be played as minor 7th the 4th major 7th, the 5th as a dominant7.
if I play dorian over a ii, iv,IV progression built from the major scale I could still use 7th chords with dorian mode. so I guess what I'm asking is as I'm trying to get all of this committed to memory am I correct on how seventh chords and the the dorian mode fits into building chord progressions from the major scale? also is the 5 chord always a dominant chord in major and minor?
I'm trying to commit all keys to memory and want to get as comfortable with this to the point someone can tell me a progression with numbers in a particular key and I know exactly what chords to use without much thought, any tips and suggestions?

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Kristofer Dahl
Feb 28 2020, 04:59 PM
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Hey Mr Vegas!

QUOTE (MrVegas @ Feb 28 2020, 02:13 AM) *
also is the 5 chord always a dominant chord in major and minor?


In major yes, in minor no.

If you have a dominant chord on the V (fifth scale degree) the key is not minor but harmonic minor. In a minor scale the V is a m7 (minor seventh) chord.

QUOTE (MrVegas @ Feb 28 2020, 02:13 AM) *
if I play dorian over a ii, iv,IV progression built from the major scale I could still use 7th chords with dorian mode. so I guess what I'm asking is as I'm trying to get all of this committed to memory am I correct on how seventh chords and the the dorian mode fits into building chord progressions from the major scale?


I think you might be confused here. If you are building and playing over a major chord progression, ie:

I (M7)-IV (M7)-V (7)

...you should not really be thinking dorian if you want to play one single scale over the progression, you should be thinking about the major scale.

However if you are playing in a dorian chord progression, ie:

i (m7) - IV (7) - v (m7)

then you can think dorian mode over the entire chord progression.

The reason you are confused, is probably because some people teach that the C major scale contain the same notes as the D Dorian mode. This is technically correct but very confusing - so I would try to forget about learning the modes like that. Instead I would recommend you see each mode as a different scale - this way you will learn how they sound from the root note, and this is the only way I think your ears can start to hear the difference between the modes.

Let me know if it makes sense. This stuff can be tricky to understand so please ask again if its not clear.

QUOTE
I'm trying to commit all keys to memory and want to get as comfortable with this to the point someone can tell me a progression with numbers in a particular key and I know exactly what chords to use without much thought, any tips and suggestions?


Although I could work this out theoretically I am very slow at it, but I guess that's just a practice thing.

The idea is that you need to understand what type of chord is built on each scale degree. And as you have seen from my answer above this of course depends on what scale you are in (is it minor, major, dorian mode, mixolydian mode ? etc)

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MrVegas
Feb 29 2020, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 28 2020, 03:59 PM) *
Hey Mr Vegas!



In major yes, in minor no.

If you have a dominant chord on the V (fifth scale degree) the key is not minor but harmonic minor. In a minor scale the V is a m7 (minor seventh) chord.



I think you might be confused here. If you are building and playing over a major chord progression, ie:

I (M7)-IV (M7)-V (7)

...you should not really be thinking dorian if you want to play one single scale over the progression, you should be thinking about the major scale.
thank you for your reply this is very helpful
so think of d dorian as its own scale build the chord progression I'm going to use off of I-iii
However if you are playing in a dorian chord progression, ie:

i (m7) - IV (7) - v (m7)

then you can think dorian mode over the entire chord progression.

The reason you are confused, is probably because some people teach that the C major scale contain the same notes as the D Dorian mode. This is technically correct but very confusing - so I would try to forget about learning the modes like that. Instead I would recommend you see each mode as a different scale - this way you will learn how they sound from the root note, and this is the only way I think your ears can start to hear the difference between the modes.

Let me know if it makes sense. This stuff can be tricky to understand so please ask again if its not clear.



Although I could work this out theoretically I am very slow at it, but I guess that's just a practice thing.

The idea is that you need to understand what type of chord is built on each scale degree. And as you have seen from my answer above this of course depends on what scale you are in (is it minor, major, dorian mode, mixolydian mode ? etc)

thank you this is very helpful.
it is a bit confusing to me but I think I'm beginning to understand hopefully this is correct, the dorian chord progression could be made from i-ii-III-IV-v-vidim-VII? I have been practicing dorian over pre recorded tracks on you tube so I'm used to the scale. if I would like to start recording my own pieces in dorian. the progression using am7-Cmaj7-em7 in the key of A dorian would be correct? the progression sound good to me.
also I will remember dom7 chords is the V chord for major, and minor 7th is the 5 chord for minor, I worked out the Edominant 7th, while playing in the key of Amajor, so I could find the explanation on why it is a flatted 7th and saw that if the V chord were to be played as a major 7th like the rest of the major chords it would ad a note to the major scale that does not belong to it, so I guess this explains why it is a dominant 7th? am I correct on this? I am enjoying studying music theory, I like how the pieces fit together and how it can be worked out. thank you for your help.

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Caelumamittendum
Feb 29 2020, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE (MrVegas @ Feb 29 2020, 07:29 AM) *
thank you this is very helpful.
it is a bit confusing to me but I think I'm beginning to understand hopefully this is correct, the dorian chord progression could be made from i-ii-III-IV-v-vidim-VII? I have been practicing dorian over pre recorded tracks on you tube so I'm used to the scale. if I would like to start recording my own pieces in dorian. the progression using am7-Cmaj7-em7 in the key of A dorian would be correct? the progression sound good to me.
also I will remember dom7 chords is the V chord for major, and minor 7th is the 5 chord for minor, I worked out the Edominant 7th, while playing in the key of Amajor, so I could find the explanation on why it is a flatted 7th and saw that if the V chord were to be played as a major 7th like the rest of the major chords it would ad a note to the major scale that does not belong to it, so I guess this explains why it is a dominant 7th? am I correct on this? I am enjoying studying music theory, I like how the pieces fit together and how it can be worked out. thank you for your help.


One thing to remember is that you may want the chord progression to sound dorian, and Am7, Cmaj7, Em7 will enheritely be very similar to a progression in Aminor, as it doesn't have anything that stands out as A dorian. In dorian the raised 6th will set it apart from aeolian, and you might want to have this note in a chord.

For instance a progression starting on the root in the A dorian mode (Am) and having the 4th chord of dorian (D) will probably more so show the listener that you are in A dorian, as you have the F# in there.

Mind you, I'm no expert, so someone with more knowledge can correct me here smile.gif

This video might also be of interest to you:

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Feb 29 2020, 10:17 PM


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Todd Simpson
Feb 29 2020, 04:14 PM
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From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Sadly, despite all the information Rich shared being correct, we do have other sources for lots of things, we are probably going to see shortages. Supply chain disruption doesn't get fixed over night. This is why folks are being urged to get up to a 90 day supply of their meds if possible. For folks with diabetes, heart disease, etc, a disruption in supply can be a big problem. The FDA has already raised the flag about the first corona related drug shortage but they won't say which drug to avoid a run of panic buying and creating a black market.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/...-name-the-drug/


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Caelumamittendum
Feb 29 2020, 04:23 PM
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From: Copenhagen, Denmark
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 29 2020, 04:14 PM) *
Sadly, despite all the information Rich shared being correct, we do have other sources for lots of things, we are probably going to see shortages. Supply chain disruption doesn't get fixed over night. This is why folks are being urged to get up to a 90 day supply of their meds if possible. For folks with diabetes, heart disease, etc, a disruption in supply can be a big problem. The FDA has already raised the flag about the first corona related drug shortage but they won't say which drug to avoid a run of panic buying and creating a black market.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/...-name-the-drug/


Wrong topic, I think smile.gif This topic is about 7th chords, Todd wink.gif

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Feb 29 2020, 04:31 PM


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klasaine
Feb 29 2020, 04:59 PM
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From: Los Angeles, CA
I'm not usually a paranoid guy but I do believe that the Coronavirus will indeed affect how we now construct the modes of the major scale, especially how we 'import' a major or dominant V chord into an otherwise minor mode.

Back to the program ...
To the OP. You seem to be a bit confused or mistaken about the chord construction of a Major (Ionian) scale. In your original post you note more than once that iv is minor. IV is Major (upper case always for major).
Also, when you refer to seventh chords do you mean 'Dominant' 7th or just stacking the next 3rd on to a triad - ?

*As Kris mentioned - try not to think to think of D dorian as a C major scale starting on D. Yes, it has the same notes but it doesn't function the same.
Because western music only uses 12 notes we are constantly re-classifying and re-organizing them into various sub sets. It's good to know what the parent major scale is but it's not gonna help you sound better.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 29 2020, 05:03 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
Feb 29 2020, 07:05 PM
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I strongly disagree that Major Corona spread will sound happy in any way. Unless it resolves nicely of course 😅

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Feb 29 2020, 11:12 AM) *
One thing to remember is that you may want the chord progression to sound dorian, and Am7, Cmaj7, Em7 will enheritely be very similar to a progression in Eminor, as it doesn't have anything that stands out as A dorian. In dorian the raised 6th will set it apart from aeolian, and you might want to have this note in a chord.

For instance a progression starting on the root in the A dorian mode (Am) and having the 4th chord of dorian (D) will probably more so show the listener that you are in A dorian, as you have the F# in there.

Mind you, I'm no expert, so someone with more knowledge can correct me here smile.gif

This video might also be of interest to you:



Yes this is is important as well: it certainly helps understanding the sound of the dorian mode if the chord progression involves the "most dorian" chords.

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klasaine
Feb 29 2020, 07:21 PM
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Corona is the third mode of the whole-tone scale.

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MrVegas
Feb 29 2020, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 29 2020, 03:59 PM) *
I'm not usually a paranoid guy but I do believe that the Coronavirus will indeed affect how we now construct the modes of the major scale, especially how we 'import' a major or dominant V chord into an otherwise minor mode.

Back to the program ...
To the OP. You seem to be a bit confused or mistaken about the chord construction of a Major (Ionian) scale. In your original post you note more than once that iv is minor. IV is Major (upper case always for major).
Also, when you refer to seventh chords do you mean 'Dominant' 7th or just stacking the next 3rd on to a triad - ?

*As Kris mentioned - try not to think to think of D dorian as a C major scale starting on D. Yes, it has the same notes but it doesn't function the same.
Because western music only uses 12 notes we are constantly re-classifying and re-organizing them into various sub sets. It's good to know what the parent major scale is but it's not gonna help you sound better.

The corona virus could indeed affect how I play the Dorian mode, and my understanding of chord construction. You can’t do shit when you get sick how would you be able to concentrate on guitar😉 joking aside I hope everyone affected a speedy recovery, and the powers that be get a handle on a awful situation. And hello klasaine thank you for helping out.🤙🤘😁

QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 29 2020, 03:59 PM) *
I'm not usually a paranoid guy but I do believe that the Coronavirus will indeed affect how we now construct the modes of the major scale, especially how we 'import' a major or dominant V chord into an otherwise minor mode.

Back to the program ...
To the OP. You seem to be a bit confused or mistaken about the chord construction of a Major (Ionian) scale. In your original post you note more than once that iv is minor. IV is Major (upper case always for major).
Also, when you refer to seventh chords do you mean 'Dominant' 7th or just stacking the next 3rd on to a triad - ?

*As Kris mentioned - try not to think to think of D dorian as a C major scale starting on D. Yes, it has the same notes but it doesn't function the same.
Because western music only uses 12 notes we are constantly re-classifying and re-organizing them into various sub sets. It's good to know what the parent major scale is but it's not gonna help you sound better.

I think I’m my original post I may have did a typo I get chord construction from the major and minor scale. I was a bit confused on the V chord major and v chord in minor. I think because of the V chord being a dominant 7 I got confused for a second, while I was trying to get everything straight in my head trying to understand the difference between 3 modes before moving on the next mode I want to study.

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Feb 29 2020, 10:12 AM) *
One thing to remember is that you may want the chord progression to sound dorian, and Am7, Cmaj7, Em7 will enheritely be very similar to a progression in Aminor, as it doesn't have anything that stands out as A dorian. In dorian the raised 6th will set it apart from aeolian, and you might want to have this note in a chord.


For instance a progression starting on the root in the A dorian mode (Am) and having the 4th chord of dorian (D) will probably more so show the listener that you are in A dorian, as you have the F# in there.

Mind you, I'm no expert, so someone with more knowledge can correct me here smile.gif

This video might also be of interest to you:


Thank you great advice I also heard this watched a you tube video explaining using chords highlighting the notes of the mode you are using. Not all the info I have been getting has stuck. The more I get get advice I need the more it will stick. The you tube channel was signals music studio. A excellent guitar learning channel.

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