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Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 01:04 PM

The company Recabinet (www.recabinet.com) has a fall sale until October 31 with 80% off at their software Recabinet (which is a cabinet/microphone simulator for computers, eg. You just line out Your amp to the DAW and then use this software instead of miking the speaker.....) I haven't tried it yet, but according to the manufactorer guitarists like Steve Stevens (Billy Idol, Michael Jackson), Vernon Reid (Living Colour), Mike Spreitzer (Devildriver), and Ahrue Luster (Ill Niño, Machine Head) uses it.... (a review is coming up) And its cheap, just 14.99$. Compared to what a good microphone costs so..... but as I said, haven't tested it yet. Btw. dont miss the sound samples....

//Staffay

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 01:44 PM

That's pretty cool. I will speak more of it later but I have been using Recabinet Complete 2.0 for a while now and have been more than happy with the results. I recommend anyone reading this forum topic to jump on this opportunity to get it at a dirt cheap price.

I wasn't aware that Vernon (maybe my all-time favourite guitarist) was using it ... that just sold me on it if I hadn't already been!!!

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 02:13 PM

You just plug it in the soundcard of the computer/DAW......

//Staffay



Yeah, I think it works well, it is also used in the Studio Devil software, which I made a review for in the WIKI. There is a brief explanation about what technique they are using emulating in this kind of software. But as I said, this is definetely worth an own review!

//Staffay

Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 27 2009, 02:25 PM

But is that software really usefull when using a POD or another software like Guitar Rig ?
There are cab settings in both of them already. Even though on the POD 2, there are probably not so many possibilities ?


EDIT: BTW, when they give software at that price it's probably because the v3.0 is coming...

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 02:46 PM

You should use the LINE-OUT, not the speaker out. The line-out delivers a line-level signal that is perfectly suited for the soundcard.

//Staffay



About POD I really dont know... but I guess if its possible to turn off the speaker emulation in the POD and use this instead..... otherwise I cannot see any point in this.

For guitar rig I think it's very useful, since the new version (GR4) imports impulses from the Recabinet, so does also Peavey Revalver and Studio Devil.

But the best would be to use it with a real amp, I guess.

//Staffay

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 03:39 PM

I initially tried using Recabinet with Studio Devil Amp Modeler Pro (AMP) as you have done but in the end I ditched it (that is to say AMP) as I tended to have to turn almost everything off i.e. preamp, poweramp sections and effects. Also too, it had the unfortunate habit of resetting things when I didn't care for it to as I auditioned presets. A lot of the inbuilt functionality (which is great if you are looking for one plugin to do it all) was rather wasted on me as I was looking to use it with a guitar preamp and outboard effects so those duties were already taken care of. A small but important factor in useability for me was that I found browsing through the Recabinet folders within AMP rather convoluted. It didn't make the process of searching out sounds transparent enough for my liking. That being said, I still found it to be a lot better sounding than a lot of the competition. So now I just load the impulses from the Recabinet library directly within SIR2 (the Recabinet website lists a whole bunch of compatible plugins for this purpose) and handle all the other details separately. This simplification allowed me better flexibility.



It all depends on your setup. I don't like the idea of preamp/poweramp/cabinet/mic modeling in general as I had always been rather underwhelmed with the sound and just as importantly the feel and response to what you play but Recabinet has been for me the exception.

After quite the huge dose of experimentation I have arrived at this configuration:

I use the recording outs from the Triaxis preamp (that is where I draw the line - you can't model that) -> some cleanup of the signal with onboard DSP courtesy of my sound card/audio interface (DC Filter/Low Cut Filter/Noise Gate) -> route to DAW -> process L+R seperately with Recabinet impulse loaded via SIR2 (I currently like Recabinet Vintage Green 4x12 - 6L6 Edge 1" on Left Channel & EL34 Edge 45 1" on Right Channel) -> route via SPDIF to the G-Major for some time-based effects (Chorus/Delay/Reverb) -> sum the mix with onboard DSP -> route it back into the DAW for recording.

A bit of a process but it allows me to leverage all my onboard and outboard gear without the added hassle of miking up the 4x12 cabinet fed by the poweramp. Given I live in a small apartment now I could never hope to crank the thing like it deserves to get some of the tone that lies there dormant. I am used to playing live but I have been pleasantly surprised at the results this pseudo-direct recording setup has provided courtesy of Recabinet. You have the flexibility of making a vast array of selections to help sculpt your sound with choice of a large number of mics, different mic placements, cabinets and even power tube sections. I am able to get a reasonable approximation to a real cranked tube amp without using the one I already have. I can tell the difference. Until now, I have not been able to accomplish this.


Excuse the rant and rave but I have been working pretty hard on this over the last month or so to get me in the ballpark of tone without even once having to flip the standby switch on the 30kg beast of a Marshall poweramp that now just sits idly by in the corner ...

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 03:40 PM

Then You must use a thing such as a hot-plate I think, but they are pretty expensive, since You are substituting the speaker load.....

//Staffay

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 03:47 PM

I agree with you there big time, brother!




Power attenuation and the possibility for a line out to boot produces its own share of pitfalls but this site gives some of the skinny on that. Not surprising since they just happen to make some damn fine competition for the Hot-Plate ....

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 27 2009, 03:53 PM

Sorry, I am some kind of a noob with all that stuff. So it's not a VST or something ? It's an application who act directly on the line in on the computer ? Or something like that ?

Posted by: Fingerspasm Oct 27 2009, 03:53 PM

I just bought mine and am downloading it now. I liked what I read on their website and for the price it seemed like it was worth checking out. It says that it will improve your sound even if you are running it through an effects unit like a pod or like my GNX4. I also have a JDS Direct box that will give me a clean line out signal that I run into my Apogee Ensemble and then use effects in my DAW. So I figure I have several options to try it with. Should be interesting.

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 04:14 PM

Essentially, it is an impulse response library i.e. just a bunch of wave files. Albeit, one that is commercially pre-packaged for there are plenty to be found for free all over the internet. The difference for me is that it contains a nice well-chosen selection that affords a vast range of possibilities. You will need another plugin (VST or equivalent) or stand-alone program to load the impulse response file itself. The companies' website lists a number of compatible plugins/programs for this purpose.

The library was produced with a nice clean poweramp with switchable powertubes and depending on the cabinet a few or quite a few mic choices and each at different placements. So you have enough flexibility to craft the sound you are looking for. I particularly like how one can easily run a stereo cab configuration by loading a different impulse on each channel.

So yeah. Nothing really earth-shattering so much in the modeling world but I just believe it was just really well done.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 04:19 PM

I cant find no competition on their site, I just love competitions...
Where did You find it ???

By the way, Weber stuff is top-notch, Im planning to get some of their speakers for my Fender, they sound a lot more warm and cracks up nicer than the eminences.....

//Staffay

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 04:37 PM

I heard it said that there are quite a few ex-Hot-Plate users who are now the proud owner of a Weber! I understand they even do a lot of their work by hand which tells me they really love what they do. Yeah. I wouldn't mind dabbling with some of those speakers myself one day ...



Awesome! We have a new convert! Look forward to hearing of your experiences once you get some tweaking out of the way ...

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 04:44 PM

Yeah, a lot of boutique-amp builders are buying stuff from them. I will go to Denmark on thursday and have a look at some amps built by a guy there.. (Tweed Deluxe Style ones... ) It 's really exciting!!!

//Staffay

Posted by: Fingerspasm Oct 27 2009, 04:55 PM

I will let you know how it works out. I have been getting pretty deep into the whole recording process and I am looking for more options do get a good guitar sound. I am on the weber site right now and I am probably going to order their Mini Mass today. I have been wanting to get an attenuator for my amp so I can really drive the tubes.... I was telling my friend the other day that I could have a pretty nice hot rod sitting out in the driveway for all the money I spend on this little hobby of mine



I am jealous. I have been itching to buy the Haze15 that Marshall is making. It really sounds good on their website. The guy really puts it through its paces. But then again I am really wanting the new Mesa Boogie Mark V. That is in a whole different price range. But man it is an awesome amp!

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 05:15 PM

That sure sounds like fun. Right up my alley. I insist that you give us a field report on your return to fair Sweden!



As you may have already sussed out by now, getting a great guitar sound on tape is one of the most notoriously hard things to achieve. Generally, the only real tried-and-true method was to crank the amp and mic it but that hasn't stopped anyone from trying an alternate path. Success has been varied and I guess the results are slowly accruing.

I know exactly what you mean. I sometimes forget how much gear I have accumulated over the years. A lot is in storage but I have been making a concerted effort since joining up here to put the most essential items in some semblence of working order so that I can easily chop and change as the need or inspiration arises.

The Weber is a great choice. I just "happened" to have that link at hand cause I have been toying with the idea of getting one myself one day so that I can do some cranking at home. Although, I am surprised I can get a half-decent sound even at low volume levels ... I have not done a test to see how it transfers in a recording but my guess is that it wouldn't.

Posted by: Fingerspasm Oct 27 2009, 05:51 PM

Yes getting that thick rich sound on tape is the main problem. My recent purchases in that quest have been the Apogee Ensemble and a JDI Direct box. I also purchase a Sennheiser 609 mic. I was just thinking of a new way to try and improve my sound. I was going to use my 609 mic in combination with a couple of overhead mic's and my Audio Technica 2050 mic that I use for vocals. I am going to try and place them at various points around the amp and give them all their own track in logic and record that way and then blend the signals and see what happens.... I can mute each track and try them in different combinations etc. Plus I can try the Recabinet also. I just remembered that this thread was originally about the Recabinet. I got off on a tangent talking about recording gear and amps.

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 27 2009, 06:06 PM

Not really off-topic at all as the question (a good one at that) was asked as to the benefit of using Recabinet. It all relates to getting a good sound that endeavours to capture some of that miced cab gooey goodness.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Oct 27 2009, 06:21 PM

I would surely try it but I never play my amp at home.

Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 27 2009, 09:26 PM

So I downloaded http://habib.webhost.pl/ and loaded it in Ableton as an effect on the guitar channel. I am currently trying the demo.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 09:45 PM

Nah, this is not off-topic. Everything is connected here, what You say about amps & recording & microphones is exactly what Recabinet tries to emulate. The interesting thing with Recabinet is that You can really have different instances running on the same time emulating just what You are trying to do. E.g different mics, different distances etc. And You can even try to emulate several stacks with the same preamp by just duplicate the original track, have some different mics,boxes on each channel (or the same, but with slightly different EQ and maybe a little delay between them?) Ooh, I can hardly wait to try this out, but I'm still working right now....

//Staffay

Posted by: Staffy Oct 27 2009, 10:31 PM

Hmm, I guess I just scratched the surface in this area, I found these links as well:

Free Impulse Responses:
Guitar and Speaker Cabs from Noisevault:
http://noisevault.com/nv/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=29&func=selectcat&cat=18

A ton of cab impulses available, requires free registration to download - well worth your time, I promise:
http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewforum.php?f=32

Vintage Amp Reverb Impulse Responses
http://noox.sitesled.com/

More good reverb impulses (Get the file "Springreverbs.zip" and look for the Plate reverb as well, it's excellent). You can use the Babelfish translater from www.altavista.com to translate the web page from German to English if you have trouble navigating it:
http://www.echochamber.ch/

There are free impulse for Bass cabinets/mics as well. They all will work well with a host like keFIR (http://habib.webhost.pl/_vst_keFIR.php
) , that is both VST/RTAS-compatible....

//Staffay

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Oct 27 2009, 10:53 PM

I heard about recabinet before, and investigated a bit about impulses, but didn't quite get into the whole story, I need THD Hotplate first. My Hiwatt DR103 doesn't have any kind of output besides speaker output at the back.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 28 2009, 12:06 AM

Wow... I just tested this stuff very quickly (not focusing on the playing as You can hear...).
I just routed the line-out from my Fender Hotrod Deluxe "hot" channel directly into the DAW, without any effects.
Then I used keFIR and loaded the greenback/SM57 Sim. It really makes a difference as You can hear below.
And the mikings/cabinets all sounds very different.... Great software for practically nothing....


//Staffay

Posted by: Fingerspasm Oct 28 2009, 01:07 AM

Hey Staffy thanks for all this great info. I am really looking forward to digging into this stuff. I still have not had time today. I do not want to start until I have at least 2 hours to spare. I have learned not to mess with stuff like this unless there is plenty of time available because time just flies once your start playing with this stuff
Your demo sounds good. Thanks for posting it.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 28 2009, 01:19 AM

It was just for demonstrate a little what it actually can do, all the harshness from the preamp disappeared, and if I have ´been a little more cautious with the basic sound and made some adjustments in the DAW, im pretty convinced that the sound would have been great...

//Staffay

EDIT: Btw. I also used it in conjunction with Studio Devil in the "Aeolian collab" for those who is interested.... (a couple of these impulses are included with this software)

Posted by: Fingerspasm Oct 28 2009, 01:24 AM

Yes there is a noticeable difference between the two. Am looking forward to playing with it. I have some old tracks already recorded I am curious to see if I can use it on those to see if I can improve the sound quality.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Oct 28 2009, 01:43 PM

Very nice Staffy, I like both the signal and playing!

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 29 2009, 02:38 PM

Just thought that if VictorUK has an FX Send on his 5150 combo then that could be used as a line out signal in combination with Recabinet? If it has one that is of course. It certainly would be a tad cheaper solution than forking out the dough for a power attenuator.

Posted by: JVM Oct 29 2009, 05:42 PM

How well does amp sound translate through line out? Can you crank the amp and get a safe level and signal for your computer? In other words can you basically use this kind of software to silently record your amp into the computer, model the speaker with the software and get a better tone than something like pod farm?

Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 29 2009, 07:41 PM

I am using it like Guitar Rig or Pod Farm directly plugged as an effect (using Kefir VST to do that) on the guitar channel in my DAW (Ableton). I turned my POD cabinet to Off and go through Recabinet and I am getting a cool sound to record in my DAW.

So I think the answer is Yes.

Posted by: Neurologi Oct 29 2009, 07:46 PM

Glad to hear it is working out well for you. I haven't really tested out all possibilities just yet but I managed to get good results quite fast.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 29 2009, 08:12 PM

Since the line out in most amps are based on the pre-amp section, there is no need to crank the amp, just put the master on Zero if You like.... The levels can U adjust on the soundcard instead. All reviews I read with users who has POD and tried this is positive and says it sounds a lot better, but I cant tell since I doesn't own a POD...

//Staffay

Posted by: JVM Oct 29 2009, 09:24 PM

Cool. Lots of technical info in this thread I didn't understand I listened to your takes, I should have done that first. Nice demo and thanks for the tip.

Posted by: Staffy Oct 29 2009, 09:39 PM

Thats cool, just ask me bout anything, if I can, I will be happy to help !!!

Posted by: JVM Oct 31 2009, 07:38 PM

I got recabinet. I'll upload some samples in the next couple days.

Posted by: JVM Oct 31 2009, 08:34 PM

So just to be sure, I can take a guitar cable from the out on my amp (which has both an FX loop with send/return and a 'record/phones' output, I guess I'd use the latter?) and plug that into my toneport GX which should give me signal in a DAW, right?

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Oct 31 2009, 08:44 PM

You should be able to connect from record/phones output to the toneport GX and then turn off all the cabinet/amp modeling in the Gearbox/Pod farm software. You should be able to get a signal from your amp in a DAW that way.
P.s. Hopefully that output is mono, I'm not sure how it will work if its stereo.
p.p.s. also fx send output should work too.

Just make sure that you don't connect anything to the speakers output (other then amps cabinet/speakers).

Posted by: JVM Oct 31 2009, 09:14 PM

I got it working, but I have a problem. I was happily playing away with my headphones on getting a nice sound in the DAW, when I start hearing farting noises come out of the amp itself. They're not particularly loud, and they seem to be pretty random - the speaker is actually muted, I tried using different cables, same issue, the tubes look fine, but still this farting noise. In fact it still does this when the amp has no guitar (or cable) plugged into it, all on its own, with the speaker muted. Any ideas? I've never heard this before. I definitely didn't hook anything up to the speaker outputs btw.

It sounds sort of like bubble-wrap, pop, poppoppop pop pop etc

Posted by: Neurologi Nov 1 2009, 11:21 AM

Another Tip:

By popular request, the Recabinet Complete $14.99 sale has been extended indefinitely.

I subscribed to the newsletter and the above popped into my mailbox just moments ago. So for anyone who may have missed it, you still have a chance to pick this up at a great discount.



Tubes look fine? Doesn't mean they are fine. You may need a retube. When was the last time they were replaced? That is my first guess ... What do you mean by muting the speaker? It is a combo right? It could be a grounding issue or dodgy power supply ... The list goes on ...

Actually, I think Bogdan's post is a little misleading. It may have been lost in translation? There should always be something connected to the poweramp output ... as in speaker cabinet or dummy load. I don't know what kind of connections your amp has so I am clutching at straws here as to your problem.

Posted by: JVM Nov 1 2009, 05:42 PM

Could be the tubes. I haven't replaced them since I bought the amp back in January.

Posted by: Neurologi Nov 1 2009, 06:11 PM

That's cool. I haven't heard of a speaker mute button before. Handy. I was a bit concerned that you were frying some circuits! At least that has been ruled out of the equation.

Yeah depending on usage you may well be due to replace your original stock tubes. I have learnt that manufacturers no matter the reputation or selling price (Mesa Boogie are no better than any other in this regard) tend to favor cutting costs by fitting units with sub-standard tubes. Totally weird logic to me. You may even find that upon retubing your amp an improvement in tone will be heard.

[EDIT] >> I assume the left-most (from the rear) of the speaker outputs is connected to the internal speaker? I would guess that despite setting your amp to "Silent Recording" mode, it should still be connected to a speaker load? It would be advisable to check the manual on this to see what Mesa has to say about proper connections applicable to your combo.

Posted by: JVM Nov 1 2009, 06:27 PM

Hmm. Perhaps I can order some new JJ's next weekend.

Posted by: Neurologi Nov 1 2009, 06:30 PM

Good call. Hope it fixes your problem. At least you only have a "few" to replace so all good!