Softube Marshall's (amazing)
Mertay
Jan 16 2021, 08:27 AM
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https://www.softube.com/products

Softube became the official software side of Marshall a few years ago. They made the code for their digital amps and later released amp emulations only for the UAD platform (can only be used with UAD soundcards). The demo's I listened at the time were great but never had a chance to try them myself, after that totally forgot about it. Seems they not too long ago went native.

Few days ago a total Marshall fan friend of mine send me some sound clips for preparation to his next single, to be honest if I didn't know probably would be mistaken they were recorded in a studio. It was a softube Jubileee he got on discount and to me these guys have done everything right.

The gain stages has the dirt we love, the cab. section mic.ing sound very authentic, they even placed a room sound and they are controlled by a mini-console. So the workflow is just like how its done in the studio. You don't need the amp room plug-in (their amplitube sort of solution) to run the amps, but the amps don't come with pedals etc. so you'll need other plug-ins to support it if you go that route.

Just a final note; Its a very convincing amp sim. so this also means don't expect loads of gain (aside kerry king model) , ultra smooth tone etc. out of the box. I saw 1-2 youtube vid.s some getting good metal tones but I'd say look elsewhere for easier solutions (Neural, THU...), this is aimed more for the guys who're into classic Marshall sound.





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This post has been edited by Mertay: Jan 16 2021, 12:07 PM


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klasaine
Jan 16 2021, 04:08 PM
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My interface is a UA Apollo and I have a few of the Softube/UAd Marshalls. They are indeed impressive. Especially when you use them via the UA 'unison' preamps ... https://www.uaudio.com/blog/unison-quick-tip/
Apollo preamps can physically rearrange some circuitry when input impedance changes. They will feel and react differently depending on what's plugged into them, mic vs. inst. vs. line. Also, since Apollo interfaces have dedicated dsp built in, the latency is between 2 and 4 ms.
My fave of the Softube/UA Marshalls are the Silver Jubilee and the JTM45 (bluesbreaker).

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Mertay
Jan 16 2021, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 16 2021, 03:08 PM) *
My interface is a UA Apollo and I have a few of the Softube/UAd Marshalls. They are indeed impressive. Especially when you use them via the UA 'unison' preamps ... https://www.uaudio.com/blog/unison-quick-tip/
Apollo preamps can physically rearrange some circuitry when input impedance changes. They will feel and react differently depending on what's plugged into them, mic vs. inst. vs. line. Also, since Apollo interfaces have dedicated dsp built in, the latency is between 2 and 4 ms.
My fave of the Softube/UA Marshalls are the Silver Jubilee and the JTM45 (bluesbreaker).


If I get a chance will check them out at my friends system, he also has a good LP so it will likely be fun. The Jubilee seems attractive to me as I'm a bit more on the high-gain side (but not to the Kerry King level) but the tones he sent me were very 70's and the video's I shared doesn't do justice compared to the stuff he sent me.

Their mixer can do the 1 bright mic. left and other darker mic. right thing and it totally felt centered together with a hint of the room mic. , its something I realized haven't heard in a long time since going all software. This is why it sort of excited me, although a bit too authentic for my player taste I wasn't expecting it to be so good.

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klasaine
Jan 16 2021, 06:23 PM
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The mixer/mics part of the emulation are definitely one of their cooler aspects and the part that can make all the difference in the realism of the amp sim. On most of them you have your choice of 2 or 3 different mics: tube, fet, dyn, condenser plus, as you mentioned, close mics and distance mics. The Jubilee has two distance mics. And at the end of the chain is digital master volume output.
You can of course completely disengage the room mics for a totally dry tone.
The Jubilee will def do an 80s rock thing.

Attached Image

Here is a rock 'ballad' instrumental track I did using the Softube/UA Silver Jubilee.
The lead is with a Telecaster (neck pickup). Light comp, some dly and reverb in post.
All the volume and saturation differences are just using the guitar's volume control and me using my fingers and then switching to a pick. *This is using my Apollo via it's unison hi-z pre and the tone was printed/recorded.

https://soundcloud.com/klasaine/80s-ballad-rocker

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Mertay
Jan 16 2021, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 16 2021, 05:23 PM) *
...


Awesome thats the convincing stuff I tried but couldn't find on youtube cool.gif

Most noticeable aspect to me on your demo is the drive definitely isn't static and with each note I can hear how it drives the amp differently, that "tone is in the fingers" thing is there smile.gif

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klasaine
Jan 16 2021, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 16 2021, 10:54 AM) *
Awesome thats the convincing stuff I tried but couldn't find on youtube cool.gif

Most noticeable aspect to me on your demo is the drive definitely isn't static and with each note I can hear how it drives the amp differently, that "tone is in the fingers" thing is there smile.gif


I should stress that this is "playing through the amp sim" as if it's a real amp. The front end impedance changes. The actual circuit re-configures depending on what it sees from your guitar (or pedal) and then reacts and interacts with the amp sim. The Brainworx amps also allow for this.

UA, Antelope and now Avid (PT) have interfaces that include varying amounts of dedicated DSP specifically for their plugins or plugin devs that work with them and enable that feature. *I haven't tried the Softube Marshall just in an insert and/or post record. Real re-amping would be no different because you'd be going back in through the Apollo preamp. Post rec in an insert ... I don't know - ?

Until I got an Apollo I was never impressed at all with amp sims. I would always mic an amp except for a rough demo.
Now, I'll be honest - I'm a convert. I still mic amps but I love using sims as well as load boxes and IRs (with my amp heads).

This song has a combination of mic'd amps, IRs and sims.
The guitar solo at 2:30 is with the Softube Marshall 'Super Lead 1959' Plexi sim. *I've never told the artist or the engineer (and bass player) that I used amp sims and they never asked about any of my parts or sounds.

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Todd Simpson
Jan 17 2021, 01:01 AM
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The UA is an amazing bit of gear. It's got enough DSP horse power to allow things that would probably crush a modern cpu. After some research it seems the specialized processors are able to do wads more than generalized cpus when code is written just for them. That mid range gain thing is so very marshal is one of the really tough bits to mimic and getting the mics/room/everything just right is an arduous process. These are some great sounding demos. Once Glenn signs off on something, it's hit a high benchmark as he does tend to really bag on anything that's not up snuff.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 16 2021, 02:31 PM) *
I should stress that this is "playing through the amp sim" as if it's a real amp. The front end impedance changes. The actual circuit re-configures depending on what it sees from your guitar (or pedal) and then reacts and interacts with the amp sim. The Brainworx amps also allow for this.




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klasaine
Jan 17 2021, 03:31 AM
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One of the things about playing with amp sims and emulations (also fx sims) is that if you want them to sound "authentic", it helps if you've actually had experience playing through the real thing.
A non master volume 50 or 100 watt Marshall of whatever era is a beast of an amp. They only really come alive and sound good when they are at least past 4 on the dial and let me tell you - that is fucking loud and really hard to control. You need to practice playing with that gear at that volume to understand what it's capable of doing.
I have a clone of a 1968 50 watt non MV Marshall Super Lead (plexi). The Softubes Plexi I believe is modeled after a '67 or a '68. When I got my Apollo it came with a bundle of 13 UA plugins, the softube plexi was one of them. The first thing I did was dial it in like I do my plexi clone and boom, it sounded pretty much like I expected it to. More importantly, it reacted like I expected it too. Again to reiterate, I believe it has a lot to do with the Unison preamp in an Apollo.

*Offloading DSP to the interface or something like McDSP https://www.mcdsp.com/ definitely helps your computer work more efficiently but I think the new Apple M1 arm chip is gonna change that. Maybe not this very first gen of it but probably the next iteration.

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Todd Simpson
Jan 18 2021, 01:53 AM
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Im with you on the M1 being a potential game changers as new versions are released. Right now it's basicaly an iphone in a laptop case for the new M1 laptops and an iphone in a box for the mini. Same hard drive, same processor design, etc. As they proceed to m2 or what not, having dedicated processors that they can code for will see new potentials open up IMHO. They will release a new IMAC and TOWER at some point with God knows how much processing power. It should allow software vendors to have much more flexibilty. Time will tell smile.gif


QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 16 2021, 10:31 PM) *
One of the things about playing with amp sims and emulations (also fx sims) is that if you want them to sound "authentic", it helps if you've actually had experience playing through the real thing.
A non master volume 50 or 100 watt Marshall of whatever era is a beast of an amp. They only really come alive and sound good when they are at least past 4 on the dial and let me tell you - that is fucking loud and really hard to control. You need to practice playing with that gear at that volume to understand what it's capable of doing.
I have a clone of a 1968 50 watt non MV Marshall Super Lead (plexi). The Softubes Plexi I believe is modeled after a '67 or a '68. When I got my Apollo it came with a bundle of 13 UA plugins, the softube plexi was one of them. The first thing I did was dial it in like I do my plexi clone and boom, it sounded pretty much like I expected it to. More importantly, it reacted like I expected it too. Again to reiterate, I believe it has a lot to do with the Unison preamp in an Apollo.

*Offloading DSP to the interface or something like McDSP https://www.mcdsp.com/ definitely helps your computer work more efficiently but I think the new Apple M1 arm chip is gonna change that. Maybe not this very first gen of it but probably the next iteration.

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Mertay
Jan 18 2021, 09:54 AM
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Last time I checked an UAD card was pre-covid, it had enough DSP to run a small mix with maybe some help from computer plug-ins but I appreciated more about the latency.

Podcaster friend for example took advantage of this nicely. Used a deesser, vocal preamp, limiter etc. and with fast connection worked near zero latency. Same goes for studio guys, they first collect stuff they need for while recording rather than post.

So for guitar recording with UAD, this is what happens from what I read from Ken;

-The input impedance is auto adjusted (like helix), this means you can also use through an analog pedal with imp. no mismatch.

-The moment you open a Marshall amp, as far as I understand it adjust preamp coloration to likely neutral. UAD preamps take advantage of integrated software coloration but maybe some more stuff might be going inside too for amp-sim.s.

-And if fx is wanted, you can use studio type reverb/delays in realtime too. Specially with reverb this has advantages, cause the ones we use on amp-sim.s are often very light-weight for latency reasons.

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Steve Gilfield
Jan 18 2021, 03:11 PM
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Lovely solo Klasaine, and great tone too!!


QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 16 2021, 06:31 PM) *
I should stress that this is "playing through the amp sim" as if it's a real amp. The front end impedance changes. The actual circuit re-configures depending on what it sees from your guitar (or pedal) and then reacts and interacts with the amp sim. The Brainworx amps also allow for this.

UA, Antelope and now Avid (PT) have interfaces that include varying amounts of dedicated DSP specifically for their plugins or plugin devs that work with them and enable that feature. *I haven't tried the Softube Marshall just in an insert and/or post record. Real re-amping would be no different because you'd be going back in through the Apollo preamp. Post rec in an insert ... I don't know - ?

Until I got an Apollo I was never impressed at all with amp sims. I would always mic an amp except for a rough demo.
Now, I'll be honest - I'm a convert. I still mic amps but I love using sims as well as load boxes and IRs (with my amp heads).

This song has a combination of mic'd amps, IRs and sims.
The guitar solo at 2:30 is with the Softube Marshall 'Super Lead 1959' Plexi sim. *I've never told the artist or the engineer (and bass player) that I used amp sims and they never asked about any of my parts or sounds.


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klasaine
Jan 18 2021, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 18 2021, 01:54 AM) *
So for guitar recording with UAD, this is what happens from what I read from Ken;

-The input impedance is auto adjusted (like helix), this means you can also use through an analog pedal with imp. no mismatch.

-The moment you open a Marshall amp, as far as I understand it adjust preamp coloration to likely neutral. UAD preamps take advantage of integrated software coloration but maybe some more stuff might be going inside too for amp-sim.s.

-And if fx is wanted, you can use studio type reverb/delays in realtime too. Specially with reverb this has advantages, cause the ones we use on amp-sim.s are often very light-weight for latency reasons.


Basically that's it.
The mic pres in an Apollo are ultra linear. There's so little 'coloration' that people actually complain about it not understanding that they are designed that way to take advantage of all the UA pres, amps and fx that take utilize the Unison tech. At this point it's a lot - all the guitar and bass amps, most of their mic pres and several effects.
This explains 'Unison' fairly simply. ... https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/...ology-work.html
The article is specific to UA mic pre sims but works exactly the same way with their (Softube and Brainworx) guitar and bass amp sims and fx sims (Echoplex, Korg SDD300, ADA Flanger, TS).

This tech works in 'record only'. You have to commit to your sound to take advantage of it. You can of course run through a DI/splitter and also record a totally dry track to effect/tweak later.

As far as how many plugins you can use with near zero latency for recording - that depends on how many cores (sharc chips) your Apollo interface has (From 1 to 6). On one chip you can get an amp and either a mic pre or a compressor or an effect. Depending on the dsp needed for a particular sim you may get less or more. If your interface has two or more cores you can record with an amp sim, mic pre, comp and dly/verb no problem and usually even monitor something else in an insert/aux.
I usually just use one amp sim in 'record' mode and maybe one of the mic pres or a compressor. *Has to be UA plugins.

The main and obvious drawbacks to this, whether it's UAd, Avid or Antelope is that you are limited to their plugins (in 'record' mode) and the interfaces are more expensive than Focusrite, Audient, presonus, RME, Native, Steinberg, etc.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 18 2021, 06:08 PM
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klasaine
Jan 18 2021, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Steve Gilfield @ Jan 18 2021, 07:11 AM) *
Lovely solo Klasaine, and great tone too!!


Thank you and thanks for listening!
I did that at the end of the spring when I first bought my Apollo and I'm using the free Marshall amp sim that came with it. I could probably get it even more 'realistic' now after having worked with it for many months.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 19 2021, 01:35 AM
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