Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:40 PM

Hi guys

Long time since I haven't done a collab. I have just finished my chat session where many GMCers wanted to have a go over this backing. There comes the idea for this collaboration.

This one is designed for all neoclassical fans that can't shred. Don't worry about the fast playing, we can still make it sound great with long notes and slow feel. Neoclassical style is not all about shred. Of course all of you more advanced players can join but we don't want any 16th triplets in this one I want you to keep it simple and focus on the melody.

This lesson has just been published and you can get all the ideas from there. I would like you to make a complete new melody and focus on smooth and nice note connection with a consistent vibrato. Vibrato is REALLY important here.

If you are not familiar with Harmonic/Natural Minor and Phrygian Dominant, you can use B Minor Pentatonic most of the time. In the diminished parts use diminished arpeggio. Vibrato should be played in 8th notes feel (two vibrating in one beat).

The chord progression:

Part 1
Bm
Em
A
D
G
E/G#
A
F#
(all this 2x)

Part 2
F#
Bm
G
Bm/F#
Fdim7
Fsus4 and F#
G dim 7
F#
Bm

Start with B minor scale, then switch to Em, then A mixolydian or A7 arpeggio (as that's the V chord) then D major etc... If you like you can just play arpeggios of these chords and make a melody out of it or you can play these full scales. If you are not comfortable with all these changes, you can use Bm pentatonic all the way until the E/G# comes.

For F# you can go for F# Phrygian Dominant or F#7 arpeggio. E/G# could be either G#dim7 arpeggio or E7 Phrygian Dominant. All these tricks are comon in neoclassical style. Combination of natural and harmonic minor is also interesting if you want to add some more interesting ingredients. If you like harmonic minor you can use it over Bm chord.

In the parts where the drums have some breaks you can folow those or just continue with the melody. The very last phrase you can finish unison with the backing.

Sound advice:
I need clear definition with not too much distortion and a warm type of gain. Please don't use some extreme metal distrtion. You can switch between neck and bridge position sometimes and make it more interesting colorwise. Try to send dry takes (no delay or reverb). Play with the effects but don't record them. I will add it later.

As usual, send one full track and one with guitar only. Both need to start from the same point or I will spend a day aligning your takes in the project The tempo is 100bpm.

Ask anything you like, I am happy to answer anything you want to know.

The deadline is August 25th (2 weeks).

See you.
-----------------------------------------------------

1. jafomatic
2. enforcer
3. kaznie_NL
4. Crazyfret
5. Gus
6. Alexiaden93
7. Chris Evans
8. superize
9. Caelumamittendum
10. Jesse
11. bladzerok
12. Rated Htr
13. Velvet Roger
14. Sensible Jones
15. Dexxter
16. audiopaal
17. twist
18. Oubollig
19. NoSkill
20. visi0n
21. Marc_Maiden
22. TheKeplerConjecture
23. berko
24. MigeZ
25. leedbreak
26. JamesT
27. maharzan
28. Tomas Santa Clara
29. Kasperkbn
30. Canis
31. Sergio Dorado
32. Nimrandir

Posted by: jafomatic Aug 11 2009, 03:46 PM

Tricksy for us. We loves it.

We'll join them, my precious... yesssssss.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:48 PM

This is really easy man I am sure none will have trouble playing over this track. Thanks for joining

Posted by: enforcer Aug 11 2009, 03:48 PM

Roar.... ME WANT IN!

please? :lol

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:50 PM

Sure man It has been long time

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 11 2009, 03:51 PM

Hey Emir, this looks very cool, but I'm kinda scared of all the scale and mode switching but maybe it'd be good for me.... You mind if I say I'm in, if I can do it?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:52 PM

Of course you can Kaz Don't be scared. Those are just the guidelines. You don't need to play all that. We need really slow solo. I am sure you can find 2-3 right notes in every bar

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 11 2009, 03:53 PM

Oh I love the backing

Can I join plz?

Posted by: Gus Aug 11 2009, 03:54 PM

Can I join?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:56 PM

Yes


Yes

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 11 2009, 03:56 PM

I'm in !

EDIT: If you don't mind horrible guitar-playing, that is...

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 03:58 PM

Thanks

edit:
your playing is cool man what are you talking about?

Posted by: Chris Evans Aug 11 2009, 04:02 PM

I`ll give it a crack pls Emir, welcome back btw how was the holiday?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 04:03 PM

Holiday was great man. I'll talk to you soon when I see you. Going to Kent again soon

Thanks for Joining

Posted by: superize Aug 11 2009, 04:20 PM

This one i got to join

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 11 2009, 04:24 PM

I'm definately in too.

There's a massive overflow of collaboratiosn at the moment! Hahaha.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 04:25 PM

Thank you. Glad to see you back in my collabs


I think that's good for all of us. Many collabs and different styles can only help. Thanks for joining

Posted by: Jesse Aug 11 2009, 04:32 PM

I'll be in!

Posted by: bladzerok Aug 11 2009, 04:33 PM

i would love to do it

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 04:34 PM

In


In

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 11 2009, 04:38 PM

I'm in

Posted by: Velvet Roger Aug 11 2009, 04:45 PM

I am definitely in. I loved played the lesson yesterday evening, so it fits in nicely

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 11 2009, 04:46 PM

I'd like to give this one a go as well!!
I really enjoyed the Lesson!

Posted by: Dexxter Aug 11 2009, 04:51 PM

It's been a long time since your last collab. Count me in!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 11 2009, 04:52 PM

Thanks guys, you are all added



Yes I know Now time to rock again. Thanks for joining

Posted by: Chris Evans Aug 11 2009, 09:45 PM

okey dokey, lovin this BT! had to get a take in before the end of the night


With BT

 Emir_slow_neo_Chris_with_BT.mp3 ( 1.69MB ) : 1217



and one without BT and no FX (hopefully mono as well this time)

 Emir_slow_neo_Chris_no_BT.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) : 1086


Cheers!

Posted by: superize Aug 11 2009, 09:53 PM

WOW that was incredible

Posted by: Chris Evans Aug 11 2009, 11:13 PM

not so sure about incredible mate but thanks

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 12:32 AM

Superize is right This is great. Thanks man

Posted by: Sergio Dorado Aug 12 2009, 12:35 AM

Great take Chris!

Posted by: Chris Evans Aug 12 2009, 12:40 AM

thanks Emir, the best backings inspire me the most

I found it really hard to keep myself under control and not play lots of widdly stuff, was a good exercise for me.




thank you Sergio, any chance of a take from yourself please?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 12:42 AM

Hahaha, tell me about it. Imagine me trying to produce it and not shred a single bar That was a challenge

And yes, a take from Sergio would be awesome

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 12 2009, 01:14 AM

I would do one if not full yet.

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 12 2009, 03:56 AM

My take is ready, just need to record it, hear it and see if I need to modify anything...

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 10:00 AM

You want to join the collab?

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 12 2009, 10:15 AM

Can I join too?

I'm away for most of the two weeks,
but I think I'll manage to record a solo just in time

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 10:40 AM

Ok, I'll add you and then you see if you can make it. Thanks

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 12 2009, 10:52 AM

Awesome, thanks

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Aug 12 2009, 11:00 AM

Great to see another collaboration Emir
I will download the track when I get back and perhaps join it !

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 11:03 AM

That would be great man. Enjoy your time there

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 12:28 PM

If theres space left i would like to give it a try

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 12:31 PM

Sure there is

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 12 2009, 12:36 PM

Hey Emir ! I'm composing it with GP whilst playing my guitar.

I think I've come up with the first 8-9 bars or so, and I intend for the song to be much stronger in the last two bars (vibrato-bends, more arpeggios), but this is my first draft.

Could anybody give me some feedback ? I will post a video and the audio files for the final upload

Thank you, and see you in 2 weeks !
Alex

EDIT: Added new GP5 file (very slightly changed)

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 12:38 PM

I really like it Just make sure that you don't get too excited Well done

Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 12 2009, 12:40 PM

Thanks for the comment ! I'll try not to get too carried away...

Posted by: Oubollig Aug 12 2009, 02:53 PM

Can I join please?

Will be my first collab/recording experience though, hope you're ok with that..

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 03:43 PM

I will try something on the according scale

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 12 2009, 06:14 PM

Ok, vibrato might be a bit bad and it might sound a bit heavy since the strings are 0.12...I don't have time to change them but I wanted to be part of this collab so, here's my take:

[attachment=17127:neoemir.mp3]

[attachment=17128:neoemirnoBT.mp3]

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 06:36 PM

I am currently working on this one here, tabbed it in GP, maybe someone can take a look at it?

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 12 2009, 06:46 PM

I like it twist, doesn't sound very good on the F# Phrygian Dominant part, but maybe that's the midi, anyhow, I think you've done well

Posted by: NoSkill Aug 12 2009, 07:09 PM

I'll throw my hat in if there's room!

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 07:11 PM

My theory knowledge is not the best, can you explain a bit more specific what you mean? Which part?

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 12 2009, 07:28 PM

Ahaha, don't worry, it's probably the midi, if it sounds good to your ear playing alongside the backing, than it's good ^^

Posted by: visi0n Aug 12 2009, 07:41 PM

my favorite !! yeah im in, in this one Emir

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 09:03 PM

18. Oubollig
19. NoSkill
20. visi0n

These are added Later I will listen to the takes recorded so far.

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 09:58 PM

Yay, i am so happy.... Just made a preview of my stuff, only the first part repeted over the backing track, but it sound almost good in some parts... In the end its somehow a little bit off sync...

 collab.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 465

Posted by: Marc_Maiden Aug 12 2009, 10:10 PM

ive got some new tricks up my sleeve for this one


count me in

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 12 2009, 10:15 PM

I'm thinking, if I'm able to buy new strings tomorrow, and record a take tomorrow, I might do a new one

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 11:11 PM

Yes, try new one and fix those things

Marc is added. Thanks



This take can be better. Don't play fast just out of nowhere. If you want to have some faster phrases then do it clever and in carefuly chosen moment. Diminished part was not the right scale. Check scale charts in the lesson on the main page. Also, don't start before the 1st beat as that's going to interfere with the previous take. The rest was pretty good.

Posted by: twist Aug 12 2009, 11:30 PM

Thanks for the comment! The fast part doesnt seem fitting to me too, i am working on that. But i am not totaly aware of what you mean with "diminished part" not in scale. Maybe its because i played the parts that are meant for the first half also over the second half... For the end result, there will be something different there. And the note before the first beat is already gone

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 12 2009, 11:50 PM

Diminished part I meant over Dim7 chord Be careful which notes you're playing over that chord. For example there is Fdim7 and you can play these notes: F, G#, B, D. Every Dim7 chord or Dim7 arpeggio has only 4 notes.

Posted by: TheKeplerConjecture Aug 13 2009, 06:33 AM

I see I'm pretty late on this and there are a LOT of participants. Mind if I join in?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 13 2009, 09:01 AM

Yes you can of course. I never had limit in my collabs. Thanks for joining

Posted by: superize Aug 13 2009, 12:38 PM

Here is a little prewiev on my work in progess

Posted by: berko Aug 13 2009, 12:44 PM

Hi Emir!

I would also like to join!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 13 2009, 02:11 PM

Sure


Your ideas are cool and rhytmical structures are nice. There are some wrong notes there. 7th bar last note should be G# 6th fret. That's the maj3rd from E/G# chord. You wrote 5th fret which is not in the scale. Next - 9th bar 2nd note should be 13th fret not 12th. There you have F# major chord and 12th fret is minor 3rd interval which is wrong. You started with F# arpeggio and moved to diminished one which is nice. Also the last note in that bar should be 18th fret, not 17th like you wrote. That's again minor3rd from F# instead of major3rd. Remember we're still in the F# chord until the first beat of the next bar where we move back to Bm. Then bar 15th you wrote A note (14th fret 3rd string) and the chord is E/G#. That A note is the 4th interval from E chord but the resolution on the 4th is not really a great resolution. The same is with the very last note (14th fret 1st string). That's F# note over A chord - 6th interval, also not really neoclassical resolution. Try to resolve either on the root, 3rd or 5th. Your notes are in the scale but that's more jazz approach for resolution. The rest is all good. I like it

Posted by: superize Aug 13 2009, 03:16 PM

Thanks for correcting my mistakes Emir

Now i have a problem with the Fdim7
Fsus4 and F# part

I want to play som sweeps over theese chord but i dont really know how they work and what notes to use(Thoery noob)

Can you help me

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 13 2009, 03:33 PM

Dim 7 chord is just 4 notes. That's also dim7 arpeggio. For example Fdim7 - take F note then the next minor 3rd from there is G#, another minor 3rd which is B and another one from there is D. So in that chord/arpeggio you have F, G#, B and D. The same is for any other dim7. Just take the first note and count minor 3rds 3 more times from there.

F#sus4 and F# you can play the same thing. Either F#7 arpeggio (F#, A#, C#, E) or F# Phrygian Dominant. That's your V chord and will resolve on Bm which is the chord I in this case.

I hope this is not difficult

Posted by: superize Aug 13 2009, 03:47 PM

Thanks i will se what i come up with

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 13 2009, 04:48 PM

Thanks for this little explanation Emir, I was having trouble with this part also!!!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 13 2009, 05:35 PM

No problem. Guys ask just anything you want to know. If we fix it on time this collab might sound great in the end. Pick all these advices and feel free to ask anything.

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 13 2009, 09:18 PM

Emir, didn't have time to correct the take, I did bought the strings but didn't have time, I'll be back on 26th August to pick up my things, if I have time to record than (1 day after the deadline), than I will, if not, just use the one I made

Posted by: MigeZ Aug 13 2009, 10:33 PM

Sign me in Emir plz This is my first collab here in GMC. I will be posting tabs soon so you can check if they fit in the backing I'll try my best to make it right but theory is not my best skill BTW you said that vibrato should be played in 8th notes feel but are there any other vibrato types (or whatever) which fit in neoclassical (my knowledge on this genre of music is still a bit low becouse I just found out about it normally i liste to powermetal; Stratovarius and Manowar for example) I will be able to record it only after 19th of august but thats luckily no problem

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 13 2009, 10:42 PM

Ok, If I see that the mix is almost done I will use the old take unless you send the new one.


Thanks for joining. 8th notes feel for vibrato works in this song tempo. Of course there are different feels but for this one vibrating in 8th notes will fit the best. Stratovarius has so many neoclassical songs Timo Tolki and Jens Johanson have always been into this style. Jens also played with Yngwie. I don't need your tabs unless you have some questions. If you know scales then just go for it. If you're not sure then post it and I will analyse it. We don't need many notes. Make slow and simple melodies, just make sure the notes are correct over each chord.

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 14 2009, 03:14 AM

Well I did, but sorry of I was not clear about it . It was filling so fast I said "I would do one if not full" I figured it was to late, then.

Any now,,, , ,

Looks pretty full now for sure, so maybe not.


EDIT, Please just make me # 25 cause this is one of the coolest backings I have ever heard, I have to do One.

Posted by: JamesT Aug 14 2009, 05:34 AM

Sign me up Emir!
I'll give it my best. This one looks tough for sure.

Jim.

Posted by: maharzan Aug 14 2009, 05:49 AM

I don't know much (anything) of neoclassical but would like to try.

Posted by: TheKeplerConjecture Aug 14 2009, 05:58 AM

Hi Emir,

Here's a rough draft of mine. You mentioned that you don't mind providing some feedback on non-final takes. So I was wondering if you could give me some pointers on how to improve this. Hopefully I can take your advice into consideration for the final version.

It's sloppy, I'm trying to do some things that I'm not quite up to par on technically yet... but it's all stuff that I'm confident I'll be able to nail down before the deadline date.

I have a feeling the sound/tone is exactly what you're NOT looking for - please let me know if you think I should find something a bit cleaner. It's also not "mixed" at all - the level of my guitar vs. your backing will be improved in the final.

Thanks in advance!

 EmirSlowNeoclassical_KeplerDraft.mp3 ( 2.2MB ) : 551

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 14 2009, 08:34 AM

You said "I would do one if not full yet.". That day I only had 10 people so it wasn't 100% clear to me. Of course you can join. I've never had limit of participants in my collabs. I'll sign you up


Added


Don't worry, this is easy. Read my intro text and follow this thread, there will be many helpful posts. Also feel free to ask anything. Thanks for joining


This take has a great starting point. There could be some polishing for sure. You're playing B harmonic minor a couple of times but that maj7 interval (Bb) is on a very dangerous place. Play natural minor instead. Use harmonic minor as a passing phrase if you like second time round. One diminished line wasn't 100% right note choice but the other one was great. I would suggest starting slowly and involving more techniques from half way. Don't throw any faster lines at the beginning. Your sound is very good. Just make sure when you export your lead track that you switch off all delays/reverbs. I need dry distortion for mixing. About the level of your guitar against backing is not important to me. That's my job in the end. I am only interested that you play your take the best you can. Good work

Posted by: MigeZ Aug 14 2009, 10:14 AM

Thanks for the comment Emir True that Stratovarius has many neoclassical song didnt notice that but well now I listen to their songs and try to get some inspiration. You wont mind if I use the first 1 and half bars from your solo couse they are just awesome for beginning Yea I will try to make it slow and melodic no faster runs than some 8th note tuplets.
Cheers ppl and GL

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 14 2009, 10:17 AM

You can use parts of my solo but I'd rather see your creative side. There are million ways to play over this progression. You have plenty of time

Posted by: TheKeplerConjecture Aug 14 2009, 04:32 PM

Thanks for the very helpful feedback!

I use B harmonic minor for the beginning part... A#/Bb is found in measures 1 and 9. In measures 23 and 24 it is found again, but I think in a different context, serving as the minor 3rd of Gdim7. Is this right? The ones found in measures 1 and 9 should be reconsidered?

Also, I now see the diminished line where the note choice was caca... it was over the Fdim7 in measure 21, yes?

Thanks again!

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 14 2009, 04:32 PM

haha, mabye you should Nah, it's cool that you make time for this!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 14 2009, 04:36 PM

I see no point restricting it. If I didn't have time for this then I wouldn't have done it at all. Everybody is welcome. Of course 100 people would be too much but that never happened in any collab

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 14 2009, 04:40 PM

YET!!!!
Won't be long!!!!

Posted by: Tomas Santa Clara Aug 14 2009, 05:30 PM

I AM IN!!!

Posted by: Kasperkbn Aug 14 2009, 05:38 PM

Are there any real requirements to my playing? Because it would be super cool to join in im just concerned about if im good enough ?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 14 2009, 06:27 PM

heh we'll see


Added, thanks.


No special requirements. Read my intro post and follow this threat, I hope everything is clear enough. Listen to other takes and read comments by me and others. You can also ask anything you want to know. This is slow and easy solo, just make sure you're using correct scales. I added you

Posted by: Tjchep Aug 15 2009, 06:00 AM

I'm in

Edit: I'll end up redoing this probably, as I'm not keen on the structure.. but we'll see.\

 Neoclassical_collab_tjbt.mp3 ( 1.53MB ) : 1470


 Neoclassical_collab_tjnobt.mp3 ( 1.06MB ) : 1124


tj

Posted by: enforcer Aug 15 2009, 11:07 AM

Tim I hate you! (esp. your fantastic vibrato)

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 15 2009, 11:47 AM

It's all ok but there is something with the structure as you said. You're not building any tension and everything sounds kind of random played. Vibrato and feel are great as Can said Try to structure the melody a bit more logical. If you start in the lower octave, next time play in the upper one etc... Then if you played whole notes, slowly move to quarter and eight notes to build tension. Many ways to achieve the goal. Technically your playing is all good.

Posted by: Canis Aug 15 2009, 09:02 PM

I'm in!

I'll get my take recorded within next week

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 15 2009, 09:08 PM

Ok, thanks for joining

Posted by: Velvet Roger Aug 15 2009, 09:09 PM

Hi Emir,

It would be great if you could give me a bit of feedback whether the structure of the 1st part is ok?

Cheers
Roger

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 15 2009, 09:27 PM

I like the idea. Everything is kinda nicely balanced. In the bar 8th there should be 18th fret instead of 17th. That's maj3rd from F#. Good work.

Posted by: Velvet Roger Aug 15 2009, 09:38 PM

Cheers Emir, thanks for the typo

Posted by: Sergio Dorado Aug 16 2009, 07:25 PM

Hi Emir. I´m in! I will send the take in the next days

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 16 2009, 07:56 PM

Thank you Sergio, you're always welcome here as I told you every time

Posted by: TheKeplerConjecture Aug 19 2009, 04:47 AM

I think this might be final. Unless you advise against parts. I considered your suggestions, but I couldn't part with some stuff...

 SlowNeoclassical_TheKepler.mp3 ( 2.2MB ) : 693

 SlowNeoclassical_TheKepler_NBT.mp3 ( 2.2MB ) : 656


Thanks! Please let me know what you think.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 19 2009, 10:08 AM

Very nice. You can leave this one, it works for me

Posted by: enforcer Aug 19 2009, 05:14 PM

Hey bro, here is my take, hope you like it, well for this one I didn't make any calculations, just tried to fully compose it by only improvizing.

We'll hope you like it, I had some peaks in dry guitar recording but I am sure it wont matter a lot when you add effects...

Effects are as usual some large concert reverb, and stereo delay with %27 feedback 1/1 note delay at right and 1/2 at left (or vice versa) I applied some compressor on my bt version, you are free to do anyting, you are the boss


If there are some major mistakes I've made please let me know so that I can redo it...

Cheers

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 19 2009, 06:01 PM

Great ideas but some wrong scales When I first play E/G# your notes are wrong, go for E7 arpeggio here. Right after that I have A chord and you're playing diminished, that's also wrong. Another wrong one is where I have F diminished 7. Go for diminished notes over F diminished 7 - F, G#, B and D. Then I resolve on F#sus4 and F#. That should be pure F# Phrygian Dominant. You played a wrong scale there. The last one is E dim7 or G dim7 (call it however you like) play E, G, A#, C#. Those are correct notes. The last F# is again F# Phrygian Dominant and resolve back to Bm. The resolution was ok. Everything in between was good, just correct these and it will be fine.

Also be careful how to end faster phrases, you need to land safely

Posted by: maharzan Aug 19 2009, 06:11 PM

I finished my version today. will be recording it as soon as I can. hopefully tomorrow. Got a bit excited so couldn't hold on posting it.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 19 2009, 06:31 PM

Looking forward to it

Posted by: enforcer Aug 19 2009, 11:23 PM

Ok I redid everything, I hope I corrected my mistakes... Please help!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 20 2009, 04:01 AM

Bravo I hope you found my previous post of some help. This now sounds all correct. Thanks

edit:

and I hope you can also hear it if you compare with the previous one

Posted by: enforcer Aug 20 2009, 04:13 AM

Yeah I can hear the difference to tell the truth, and I am not talking about the obvious mistakes but to my ear it seemed just different (like a different taste) not "wrong" (thats when I'm talking about improvising over the bt surely) but you are far more experienced on this and I take your word as canon ofc, maybe I need more time to make distinction of two I don't know, Glad you helped to straighten things up bro!

edit: typo and some addendum

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM

I agree that something can sound right to you but not to me. We all have different taste and ear. In this style of music "neoclassical" there are some kind of unwriten rules for the scale approach. That's why I wanted to point you that way. Your take now sounds neoclassical for sure

Posted by: enforcer Aug 20 2009, 12:43 PM

hehe thanks

Posted by: maharzan Aug 20 2009, 02:08 PM

YaY!! The second collaboration of all!!

I have no idea about neoclassical as such.. I lack a LOT of knowledge when it comes to theory. Here is what I have come up with. Any feedback is definitely helpful!

Hopefully you liked it. Thanks!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 20 2009, 02:43 PM

Very nice. That's it Now export the solo guitar and make sure that it starts from the same point as this track with the backing. Make the track mono and make sure that you don't have any delay/reverb. Leave just dry distortion. If you already recorded with effects then send it like that or if you have time re-record it dry.

Good work

Posted by: maharzan Aug 20 2009, 04:09 PM

Wow.. Thanks Emir.. I am flattered!

I recorded in Pro Tools using Guitar Rig 3. So I guess, it does have the dry signal as well. Will post that too (with no backing I guess?)

Thanks again!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 20 2009, 04:13 PM

Good Just export dry distortion and that's fine.

Posted by: maharzan Aug 20 2009, 04:36 PM

Emir, I have uploaded it on the above post to make things easier.

Thanks.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 20 2009, 04:49 PM

Ok, got it Thanks

Posted by: superize Aug 21 2009, 10:08 PM

Here is my take

If you find some errors please let me know.....

I uploaded the GP file of the solo aswell so you can see what i am playing

Posted by: Nimrandir Aug 22 2009, 12:30 PM

I've never done any collabs or jams before, and would really like to try this one I'll have a rough take tomorrow (or even today).

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 22 2009, 02:48 PM

Ok I added you on the list. Just don't break the deadline


I was really enjoying the whole thing but the last diminished scale was a shock You moved the whole thing for 1 or 2 frets, not sure now

That's E dim7 or G dim 7. You need these notes: E, G, A# and C#. Just fix that and the rest is all good.

Posted by: superize Aug 22 2009, 03:01 PM

Ok Emir i have updated th Gp file.... Hope i understood you corectly

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 22 2009, 03:34 PM

In the bar 24 you started 20 and 17 but you need 21 and 18. Follow that pattern. E, G, A# and C#

Posted by: superize Aug 22 2009, 04:38 PM

Ok here is the updated version

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 22 2009, 05:29 PM

Thank you. This is now ok

Posted by: JamesT Aug 22 2009, 07:25 PM

Hi Emir,
Work on this collab is going well. I'm really getting into finding the notes that fit the chord progression instead of just ripping some notes over the top. It's a way different approach than what I usually do.

I was listening to your take of the lesson over this backing track. Your tone seems to cut very well through the mix while still not sounding too loud. I mean, the lead guitar sounds loud as it should while not overwhelming the rhythm section. For this collab, I'd like to try to emulate that and wonder what I could do differently to approximate this tone a little better. It would be cool to get an overview of how you get your tones for the GMC lessons and if that differs from what you do live. It's so much easier these days to just record with a modeling amp, I wonder if that's everyone uses these days in the stuido when recording for an album or something. Thoughts?

Posted by: berko Aug 22 2009, 08:30 PM

Sorry Emir but I'll have to back off from this one, my plans for the end of the summer have been messed up and I won't make it till tomorrow or even the next week.

Thanks again for the opportunity and I'm looking forward to the next one!

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 22 2009, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure if I'll make august 25th! Pls don't wait for me! sorry man, thanks for the oppurtunity!

Posted by: twist Aug 23 2009, 01:03 AM

Well, i tried for a few days now, but i am very unsure about the second part... Maybe someone can give me some advice?

 collab_twist.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 242

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 23 2009, 01:22 AM

I will try to find some time and upload screenshots of the things I am using. My setup is very simple. Guitar, little tube preamp and Amplitube 2 plugin



No problem. Thanks for trying.


It's ok Kaznie. If I don't receive enough takes by the deadline I migh extend for 1 or 2 days. If you still can't make it don't worry, there will be next time. cheers


The first thing you need to do is to make sure that your guitar is in tune Then your sound is too agressive. Try to find some warmer distortion. This one is too buzzy. I am not sure what you're using for the guitar sound. You started good until half of the solo. After that you hardy played one right note. Check scales that I suggested and read in my previous posts when I gave scale tips to other guys.

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 23 2009, 04:19 AM

Live and learn

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 23 2009, 12:15 PM

Many wrong notes in this one. You can leave this take if you want but this can be done much better. I advise you to first compose one note per bar, but one correct note. Then add a second one somewhere when you think it sounds good. After that add the third and the fourth in some parts. That way you can't go wrong. You need to know which scale in which moment you should play. I explained that in my intro post and some other responses to other participants. Also you should be able to hear when some note just doesn't match the chord progression. If you can't then write down your scales and the chord progression and try to read from the paper. I should have done a video of me explaining scales but I think now it's too late as the deadline is close. Your sound has some chorus or flanger. That's not a bad thing but in this style of music I hardly remember that I heard something like that If you have time try another take but if you can't I will comment on this one.

Posted by: twist Aug 23 2009, 12:42 PM

Hm, ill check the tuning... And i will try to find a warmer sound.

The second part is totaly confusing me. You wrote a line of chords at the beginning of this thread and i tried to figure out how theyre played in the song. Its not just one beat for every chord, and i have a hard time to find out which chord is played where...

Posted by: twist Aug 23 2009, 01:47 PM

and i am back.... i checked the tuning, the guitar was in tune... Maybe something went wrong with the recording. I tried to refit the 2nd part and i think at least i heard the cords right this time. Maybe its a bit better now...

 collab_twist.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 257

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 23 2009, 02:11 PM

Here you go Emir, back from London, had time to record a new take before I go back

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 23 2009, 02:23 PM

Check my lesson "http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/neoclassical_solo_for_beginners/", you have chords on the video.


I'll check this out later today Thanks


Thanks, I'll check it later. How did it go in London?

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 23 2009, 02:31 PM

Pretty well, I'm returning next tuesday probably to do an academic exam and than I'm starting the Diploma in ICMP

Posted by: MigeZ Aug 23 2009, 05:26 PM

I'm sad to say this Emir but I have to sign out thanks to the beginning of my highschool I have no time to do anything at all atm so my take if I somehow managed to record one wouldn't be what I wanted it to be so sry mate. But do not worry my friends after I somehow manage to gain control of my essays etc. I will be recording my song which I have already written
Cheers ppl cya

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 23 2009, 05:34 PM

No problem MigeZ, thanks for trying

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 24 2009, 03:51 AM

Ouch "one correct note"

Dang. I knew I was off in some places, but never this bad. I tried to use the scales you mentioned, but had to guess for the ones you did not (G dim 7 chord). I wrote most of this in tabs while looking at the scales. And changed to the scale chart as you said to. I posted the tabs below, but again I never thought I was off this much. You are right there is not enough time and surly not enough motivation to do it again. It kinda hurts. Like making an F on a test you studied for hours on. Cause I did spend more time on this one than ever. And the same test that I felt fairly good about handing in.

As far as the effects go I recorded through my pod with no FX. I then added just what my software has, which is not much, but my NBT was as dry as you asked for it to be The effects I used were not going into the final mix as you were going to add them. No need to comment I will just remove my take, and withdraw. After your comments here, your real comments might would cause suicidal tendencies.


As I said, I knew I was off in places. But off as far as you say just blew me away.



 emirpart1.gp5 ( 2.61K ) : 153


 emirpart2.gp5 ( 2.35K ) : 168


Here is an mp3 of my tab's midi playing with the backing. The second progression was not as good as the first however, I was really thinking I had it close

 Leed_Tabsandbacking.mp3 ( 1.13MB ) : 204

Posted by: jafomatic Aug 24 2009, 05:24 AM

I don't think you read Emir's post correctly. He's advising a strategy, not counting your "out of scale" notes. What he's suggesting is to start composing with only 1 note per measure and to also make it "one correct note per measure" during composition.

I feel like you may have skimmed or simply misread the rest of what he was suggesting to you.

Also of note: I recorded this 2 measures at a time, from the end, until I reached the middle. Then I recorded the beginning.

 EHSNS_jafomatic_fin_wbt.mp3 ( 2.84MB ) : 315


 EHSNS_jafomatic_fin_nbt.mp3 ( 2.84MB ) : 243

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 09:40 AM

No need for suicidal tendencies My comments have always been as honest as possible. I think that's better than saying "awesome take" which is not going to help you. Jafomatic is right, I didn't count your wrong notes I was just trying to give you some helpful directions. There are wrong notes in some scales. If you want I can comment on this but I prefer that you produce the best take you can. Now if you let me do it I am happy to fix these issuses in your GP files and you can learn that. I will not change your structure just move some notes to the right fret. You have solid melody foundation and that works as it is. It can only sound better if we fix these issues.


There are a couple of wrong notes in there but overall is acceptable take. Do you have GP file of this so I can fix it for you? If not then leave it and I will point to those in my comments. You need stronger gain for this sound. You're nearly losing sustain because your drive is very light.


Hi. I have just heard this. Nice take. There are only a couple of notes that could be better but you can leave this take if you want. It wasn't something very serious.


Nice take Jafo. Thanks

Posted by: Sergio Dorado Aug 24 2009, 09:42 AM

Hi Emir. Here is my take. I´ve put two different tracks for the solo (mono and stereo) because when I´ve exported to mono appears a little points of noise in the lows ( I don´t know why). The stereo version sounds more clear to me, may be you can converted it if you think it´s necessary. Thanks.
 Slow_Bt.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 305

 Slow_no_bt.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) : 220

 Slow_no_bt_stereo.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 261

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 09:57 AM

Thanks Sergio. Great ideas. The mono track could clip because when you record it stereo and export as mono, two channels becomes one and that one is much louder. If you record mono from the start then you won't have any trouble but don't worry now I will use this one

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 24 2009, 10:00 AM

@Emir
Just go ahead and tell me where they are bad, maybe I can even try to improve vibrato on a new take

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 10:24 AM

• On 0:47 you're playing Bb note over G major chord. That's minor 3rd but we need maj 3rd as the chord is G major. Move that note to B one fret up.
  
• Now the very last four notes before the ending (over the last F# chord). You played F#, G, A and resolved on B.
  Play F#, G#, A#, B
  
  or
  
  F#, G, A#, B

Also you can tighten up some faster phrases

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 24 2009, 11:04 AM

Ok, gonna work on that when I get back home, thanks

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 11:36 AM

No problem man

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 24 2009, 01:35 PM

Ok, I corrected those problems, tried to improve the vibrato and, did a different approach, more legato, see if you like it better

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 24 2009, 02:44 PM

Thanks Emir and Jafo

I did not mean that you counted my wrong notes. But it did kind of sound like you meant every bar had problems and that maybe I did not refer to the scales at all. And I just tried to get by improvising.

I did mine as Jafo said he did his. A bar at a time and then put two together and then four and so on. There has to be many bars that are within scale. (I may have chose the wrong notes from the scale as this was confusing to me). The main reason I sound so discouraged is not because my solo was off so much but because my ear told me it was pretty good, especially part one. It is hard to be a good musician if you don’t have an ear for it. I guess I am scared of the truth.

Do I want you to correct my tabs? Sure, that would be an honor. However, if you do say every bar was off then I would say no, since my take would become your take. More so, I would not want to take up too much of your time. And correcting the tab would be time consuming. But fell free to do so. I will redo my take within 24 hours after you correct the tabs.

Thanks again!!!!!

I guess this is embarrassing, more so than anything else. Thinking I was doing great when I was not.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 03:12 PM

Ok I'll try to do it today. I didn't say every bar was wrong. Some are ok and some not. When I send you the corrected GP file you will probably notice that. Agan I said I will not change the structure, just shift wrong notes a fret up or down to match the scale.

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 24 2009, 03:43 PM

Here's mine Emir.
Unfortunately I have no more time to spend!
I know there's some timing issues!!
And I still managed to confuse myself in the Diminished part!!!
I had fun and I did learn something though, so not all was lost!!!

Also, it's my first go at playing this style as well!!!
[attachment=17343:Emir_SNC_wbt.mp3]
[attachment=17344:Emir_SNC_nobt.mp3]

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 03:56 PM

Ok man thanks for the take


Yes, that's it

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 24 2009, 04:41 PM

I'm recording my take today, so you'll get it later tonight
Unfortunately I haven't been able to start untill now, so I'll just have to do my best and try to impress you

Even though I know very little about neoclassical playing

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 24 2009, 04:59 PM

I too will have something recorded a posted if not tonight certainly tomorrow.

Prob won't be any time to improve it tho

Posted by: twist Aug 24 2009, 06:04 PM

Hi,

i attached the gp file i made. Its not exactly what i am playing (notes are the same, but i played a different timing in the end).

I turne the gain to 5 of 10 for the take, maybe i will try something different.

 collab_twist_2.gp5 ( 4.77K ) : 135

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 24 2009, 06:06 PM

Thanks Emir,

I am sure I speak for many that your help is gone way beyond what is expected of a collaboration leader and even an instructor. Many thanks for that and your expertise as well.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 06:11 PM

That's ok. This style is all about 3 scales, not that hard


Ok Crazyfret, waiting for it



Ok I'll try to do it today. Cheers


Cheers man, I think the point of these collaborations is to play, have fun, help each other and learn I will have a look at your GP file today.

Posted by: Nimrandir Aug 24 2009, 06:18 PM

Here's my draft take. I'm not uploading version without BT because I'm going to rerecord it anyway. I just wanted to have some feedback before doing it (please bear in mind that it's the first complete solo I've ever written ). I'm certainly going to redo the Gdim part near the end.

Also, what's the precise deadline?

_{Gosh, is my timing really THAT bad?}

Thanks in advance

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 06:27 PM

This all sounds ok and pretty well controlled. G dim part before the end was ok. The problem is when I go for the G major chord earlier, you're playing G minor 3rd notes (Bb). We need major 3rd ( B note ) as the chord is G major. Also just before the end part when you resolve back to Bm. You played A and B notes (resolution on B ). We need A# and B because on that A# you're still in the F# chord and A# will your major 3rd note which will work over F# chord. I hope you can understand. Almost the same thing I told to "Rated Htr".

Nice playing

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 24 2009, 06:43 PM

Well... Erm... Since I do not know these three scales it's not that easy either

Well, I just finsihed recording my take, so hopefully you find some good stuff in there somewhere
It's not as clean as I'd like it to be, due to time limitations.
I didn't get to practice it more than a few times before I recorded it,
but I actually think I did fairly well anyway

Here it goes..

With Backing:  neo_wbt.mp3 ( 2.67MB ) : 446

Without Backing:  neo_nobt.mp3 ( 2.67MB ) : 193

Without Backing and Delay:  neo_nobt__Without_Delay_.mp3 ( 2.67MB ) : 353

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 07:43 PM

Cheers man. There are some minor things but nothing serious. Do you want to keep this clean sound or shall I stick some drive to it?

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 24 2009, 07:47 PM

Thanks mate
Do whatever you think sounds best

Posted by: Nimrandir Aug 24 2009, 08:22 PM

Thanks Emir! Most of the time I'm stuck in pentatonics, so this stuff is something new to me.

I just think it does not fit at all there.


This one is a bit confusing. I'm using B harmonic minor over the whole Bm->G->Bm/F# bit, and it contains both Bb and B notes. I just thought that Bb sounds kind of evil
Also, should I then avoid C# note which is #4 relative to G?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 08:53 PM

Ok Twist here is the fixed one. This is where I changed notes in your GP file:

Bar 8 I changed this pattern into the A major 9 arpeggio because the chord here is A. You played something that sounds like E major. The notes were in the A scale but the resolution was totally out of the A definition. You have the same thing in the bar 16 but I left that one as you played so you decide which one you prefer.

Bar 9 I changed minor 3rd note into major 3rd

Bar 17 The same as for the bar 9

Bar 18 (here I changed the whole line) if you think your one sounded better then you can leave it. I think this makes more sense as your one was too repetitive

Bar 22 Changed 14 - 12 to 15 - 12 as that's the right diminished pattern for Fdim7

Bar 23 Here you had wrong chord on the second guitar. You played F chord but you need F#. I changed it to F#sus4 (half a bar) and F# (the second half). So the lick started with the B note to target that sus4 and then resolve to F# (root note) and A# (major 3rd from F#) I hope you understand this

Bars 24-29 Here I changed your diminished pattern. Now you have some melodic structure and a solid resolution. There were other couple of notes I changed later just for a better note choice even though your ones were in the scale. I noticed you're often finishing prase on the 4th or 7th against the root. That gives completely different dimension and doesn't sound like a resolution. Jazz guys use it a lot but here in the neoclassical style we need to keep things simple obvious and logical. The simplest is to resolve the phrase on the root, 3rd or 5th. You will never go wrong like that. I also changed the end a little so it better matches the backing.

Check your take now and let me know if you're happy with that. I tried to keep it your way as much as I could. This style of music is really not a science. Yngwie Malmsteen has been playing it for ages and still he is using only 3 scales throughout his whole career.




That's G major chord. If you want to be specific then it's G lydian or B aeolian because the root key is Bm of the whole thing. B harmonic minor can't be used in this situation but there is space for it on some parts.

p.s. it doesn't let me make a new post. The below GP file is for TWIST

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 10:34 PM

Hi

This is where I changed some notes:

Part 1

Bar 2 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string
Bar 8 - 18 instead of 17 on the 1st string
Bar 10 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string
Bar 15 - 9 instead of 11 on the 3rd string. Here your note was correct (6th interval from A root) but that note makes the whole line somehow undefined. Now you have a better kind of A7 arpeggio with the 11th(4th) added.


Part 2

Bar 1 - I just switched 17 and 16 into 16 - 17 on the 4th string as that produces one dissonant note (min 2nd) together with my background melody. This way they have nice harmony in minor 3rd (only on 1 note) instead of that clash
Bar 3 - 18 instead of 17 on the 3rd string
Bar 5 - this is now correct pattern for the F diminished 7. Your rhytmical structure was ok but these notes work better over that chord
Bar 6 - I just resolved the previous diminished line on the F# note (14th fret 1st string)
Bar 8 - 17 instead of 16 on the 4th string as that follows G dim 7 pattern
Bar 9 - 4th fret on the 3rd string instead of 4th string. This now produces B min triad chord (first 3 notes) and F# triad major (second 3 notes). Also you're now not repeating the same note twice in the bar. Very nice line here
Bar 10 and 11 - I changed your ending line here. You started some repetitive patern in Bm pentatonic. Not bad but this now sounds much more neoclassical. That's especially important when you're ending the piece of music. It has to have the "name and surname" and the perfect resolution. If you liked your one then feel free to leave it but there I couldn't hear well defined resolution.

I hope this will now help you with the right approach. I didn't change much, just shifted some wrong notes. Wherever I didn't explain why I moved the note, that one wasn't in the scale You were not far, just one fret away most of the time.

Cheers

Posted by: Gus Aug 24 2009, 11:05 PM

Hi Emir.
I have figured it out, but I won't be able to meet the deadline.

Is it ok to record it tomorrow (26)?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 11:14 PM

Yes. While I am mixing the first and the second group So far I have received around 10 takes out of almost 30. Looks promissing

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 24 2009, 11:36 PM

I will check it out and try to get a take up tonight or tom night at the latest, thanks again

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2009, 11:49 PM

Ok take your time

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 25 2009, 12:38 AM

Since I am such a neo newbie, I have to ask,

Just now looking at your changes in part one.

"Bar 2 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em
"Bar 8 - 18 instead of 17 on the 1st string" 18 is not part of F# Phry Dom Which I tried to use
"Bar 10 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em

Looking through part 2 there is a few more you changed from notes of the suggested scale to accidentals
I am betting that once I play them I may aggree they will sound better, why do they sound better or in theory why would you say all these notes are the better choice?

Sorry to keep talking, I just want to learn all I can.

When writting my "first take" I would not have used these all these "accidental notes" (Even if the sounded better to me) for fear that someone would say hey you got tons of accidentals in your take LOLOLOLOL

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 12:59 AM

Good point. That's called targeting towards the resolution. In bar 2 that 14th fret is the 6th interval from E which is E dorian and dorian is minor scale. Yes it is still Em. Think of this whole first part like D major scale all the way (except E/G#). Our root is B minor which is a relative minor to D major. Now if you count the modes from D in order you will find that Em is going to be dorian, A will be mixolydian, D will be ionian(major), G will be lydian etc... That's why we need that 14th fret because you're going to resolve on the A chord and that 14th fret becomes major 3rd from A which is what we need.

About bar 8, yes 18 is major 3rd from F# phrygian dominant and that's the note you need. Phrygian dominant has major 3rd in the scale formula. Pure phrygian (which is the 3rd mode from major scale) has minor third. This phrygian dominant is not coming from the major scale. This is the 5th mode of Harmonic minor. So F# phrygian dominant is the 5th mode of B harmonic minor.

I hope this is clear. Feel free to ask anything I am happy to explain

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 25 2009, 01:21 AM

No not clear. but again I am a newbie and it shouldn't make since. I will just record it as you wrote it and upload the one I like best. Please see the very last edit of my previous post. It is funny

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 01:27 AM

Hahahah, but accidentals are made for writting music. You shouldn't be scared of that. Actually the whole score should have 2 sharps at the beginning of each note system (score row). That's beacuse we are in B minor key and it has F# and C#. With these two your notes inside each bar won't have that many accidentals as they are defined at the beginning of the score for each F and C note which you write normaly but they sound like F# and C#. If you end up with some more inside the score don't worry, that's all music you wanna write

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 25 2009, 01:35 AM

Ok so why did we try to use all the scales, would it have been easier to just say we are in Bm boys, good luck. LOLOLOL

Ahh, that must be the "Neo" part I bet

In this post you are talking gereral math, while in the other post you are talking trigometry or so it feels.

Besides I was not scared of accidentals, I was scared of you. lol

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 01:43 AM

Hahah this is funny. No reason to be scared of me I am here to help. Regarding "all the scales", we're actually not playing that many. Here is why:

Bm, Em, A, D, G - this is all one scale. Or you can call it like this:

B aeolian, E dorian, A mixolydian, D ionian, G lydian - again all this stuff is just one scale but different root note Try it yourself and you'll see. Play B minor scale and just think that your root is A instead of B, you will end up with A mixolidyan.

When you get into modes you will understand this stuff. Don't worry for now. Just record that take and you'll be fine. I am not going to judge your theory knowledge, only your playing this time.

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 25 2009, 02:01 AM

Wow, now see I did not know that. I do wish that statement was what you told us to do in the beginning. an easy out. LOLOL
I know it is not all you wanted us to do but I think I would have hit it all a lot closer. Just thinking in Bm scale. I would have known to change the roots, that I did know. I know you said we could use mostly Bm Pent, but that was if we were not sure of the scales use. I thought I was sure.

I will record the take but will need a day longer for sure now, after chatting with you all night.

Again emir, thanks for your amazing patients on the GMC boards. You look kinda mean in your pictures and for sure in your shredding.

Jason

Posted by: jafomatic Aug 25 2009, 02:43 AM

You haven't seen him ... like THIS:



Then you'll see the kindly young man "beneath the metal"

Posted by: UncleSkillet Aug 25 2009, 02:57 AM

That was a good one. I found it a few nights ago and enjoyed it.



@ LeedBreak Emir is a very cool guy that will give it to you nice, straight and honest. Maybe we all have communication issues sometimes because we are an international community but, know one is here to be mean and belittle anyone or anything that is uploaded. I'm looking forward to your final take.

Posted by: JamesT Aug 25 2009, 07:00 AM

Ok Emir:
Here's my take. I'm still working on the GP file and will upload tomorrow. If you get a chance please take a look at the notation (tomorrow) to see if I've got everything right. I hope I didn't get too carried away on the ending.

Thanks again for the awesome backing track. I can't wait to hear everyone's final mix.

 20090824_NeoclassicalCollab_wbt.mp3 ( 2.81MB ) : 209

[attachment=17377:20090824...lab_nobt.mp3]

Posted by: Velvet Roger Aug 25 2009, 07:15 AM

Emir, sorry for the delays but when I get back from work tonight I will record my take.

Cheers
Roger

Posted by: twist Aug 25 2009, 09:53 AM

Thanks a lot Emir, i will try to record my take again today!

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 10:37 AM

Ok guys take you time. I am mixing group 1 today so you can send the take tomorrow as well.

Posted by: enforcer Aug 25 2009, 10:50 AM

great

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 11:01 AM

But you have sent your one. Are you going to send another? I have already written the comment

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 25 2009, 12:03 PM

Hiya Emir

I've started a gp5 file to help me compose my solo's a bit better and to help me with writing music.

Just wondering if the backing chords are correct and more or less to the rhythm. I've only done the first part so far as I'm sneakily doing this at work!

I know the lead is a little basic but I just want to make sure the notes are correct, (they sound ok to me).

I'll will try to record a take later tonight

Cheers

Posted by: enforcer Aug 25 2009, 12:09 PM

no man I am pleased with what I have sent, I dont know if you are though

I said "great" because I think I am on the first group

Will you send all the comments together or group by group?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 12:17 PM

I think I'll have 3 groups if everyone sends takes. Tomorrow I will start posting comments.

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 25 2009, 12:20 PM

Awesome, looking forward to your comments

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 12:32 PM

I wrote all the chords for you. Now you compose your solo. I changed some notes in your start to give you a better idea. Be careful with scales. I will be here most of the day so feel free to ask anything

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 25 2009, 12:33 PM

Cheers Emir Saved me some work there

Many thanks

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 01:00 PM

Don't be scared when you see F#/E. That's just another way of writting F#7 where the bass line plays that b7th interval. Play F# Phrygian Dominant there

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 25 2009, 01:12 PM

Hey Emir, Just by curious, am I on the first group ?

Posted by: Canis Aug 25 2009, 01:50 PM

I'm so sorry, but I have to jump off this one

I've been busy trying to find a job lately, and have forgotten all about collabs.. I'll tag along on your next one istead

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 02:01 PM

Don't know yet, could be


Ok Canis no problem. Thanks for trying

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 25 2009, 02:53 PM

I think I'm getting there with it just coming to the last section and I assume a diminished scale is to be used over the Edim7 and Gdim7 section just wondering which one? I remember somewhere in my theory that there are only 4 whole diminished scale due to their scale pattern, am I right?

Anyway here is the gp5 solo so far

Cheers

Posted by: twist Aug 25 2009, 03:42 PM

Hi there,

i finished recording my stuff and here it is:

 neoclassical_collab_twist_WBT.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 289

 neoclassical_collab_twist_WOBT.mp3 ( 1.65MB ) : 240


Since i dont have time to rerecord, this has to be my final take. But i hope its good enough now And i uploaded a video of my final recording to youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU7WfTDoNjc
(Maybe you have to be patient for a few more minutes - youtube is "processing" my video right now)

Posted by: Nimrandir Aug 25 2009, 03:43 PM

Hi Emir!
Here's my redone take. Hope it is now OK There are some timing mistakes, so I can rerecord it again if needed. Also I attach the dry guitar output in case the sound is bad (I've dialed in more treble and drive)

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 03:52 PM

Yes only 4 notes. That's actually the diminished 7 arpeggio which works the best in thus style. In this case E, G, A#, C# are the notes you need. It's been discussed before on this thread I hope it helps



Thanks Twist I appreciate your time


Thanks man. Leave it now as we don't have more time. It works like this

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 25 2009, 05:08 PM

Oh I know he is not mean, seems a top notch super guy.

Just looks mean LOLOLOL




Cool we all need to steel the chord file

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 25 2009, 09:42 PM

Hiya Emir

Here's my take its somewhat different to the gp5 file but the ideas are there

Its definately not as cool as the entries I've heard so far .....boy there is some gr8 playing on here

Thanks for the cool backing and the chance to join the collab I'll need to work a bit harder on these.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 25 2009, 10:03 PM

Yes you can go for it. But I made it all in your GP file you don't need to worry about that anymore


Thanks for your time man. I hope you got some interesting experience from this one

Posted by: Velvet Roger Aug 25 2009, 10:32 PM

Hi Emir,

Here is my take, and am fairly ok with it (am stuffed with work so had very little time to actually record it ).

Anyways, attached a dry-take (only distortion) without backing, a take including reverb/delay without backing and a take with backing. Also attached the GP5 file.

I very much enjoyed composing this one, thanks in advance for your comments!

Cheers
Roger

Posted by: Gus Aug 25 2009, 11:03 PM

And here we are!

 GusNeoclassicBT.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) : 239

 GusNeoclassicNoBT.mp3 ( 1.07MB ) : 272


A little bit out of ideas for second part, but that's it...

Posted by: Dexxter Aug 25 2009, 11:45 PM

Ok, here's my take I'm doing a GP5 file atm, just for fun. I'll upload that too when it's done

Posted by: bladzerok Aug 26 2009, 01:41 AM

okay so here is my take for this one, i am pretty sure all the notes in my solo fit with the chords, but if they don't , please tell me.

i hope you will like it

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 26 2009, 04:34 AM

Oh, here it is. My final take.

All I wish I had now was a couple weeks to practice it more, because I feel that is all I could do to make it better.

Please remember that the with backing track has effects that come with my software and are not meant to be "Neo style"

The NBT is dist only.

Thanks Emir for the most challenging thing I have done on GMC. I look forward to doing it again soon. Your help is greatly appreciated.

 2nd_neo_leedbreak_WBT_WFX.mp3 ( 1.09MB ) : 287



 2nd_neo_leedbreak_NBT_NFX.mp3 ( 1.09MB ) : 248

Posted by: JamesT Aug 26 2009, 06:11 AM

Emir, here's the GP file for my take...
It turned out to be very close to what I wrote/played. Measure 20 in the notation is the only one that gave me a lot of grief. I must have played an extra note in the fast run and kind of slurred it to make it fit. On the recording it fits perfectly into a half measure, but when I charted it out, I noticed that there was no way I was going to get only 13 32nd notes to fill the space. In the chart I tied several notes together make the measure complete. Please take a look and let me know what you think if you have a moment.

[attachment=17422:Neoclassical1.gp5]

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 26 2009, 06:41 AM

Hi guys. I will start posting first comments and mix today. For those that haven't sent the take yet they can do it today as I am mixing the first 2 groups.

James, I will look at your GP file later today.

Posted by: Crazyfret Aug 26 2009, 08:43 AM

You bet I did

Posted by: Oubollig Aug 26 2009, 01:55 PM

Here's my take, sorry for being late


 neoclassicBT.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) : 402
 neoclassicNOBT.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) : 210

Posted by: TheOldOnes Aug 26 2009, 02:14 PM

I have been quite fascinated with this thread as I was hoping to get some time to work on the collaboration. Unfortunately, I haven't found the time although I have spent some time working on Emir's beginners neoclassical lesson and some improvisation over the backtrack Emir posted.

What I have found fascinating is Emir's responses to some of the collaborations on note choice and scales - I think I have learned alot just from his responses. I am still foggy on a lot of the scales but I just need to set the time to learn this.

I have a question concerning all the gp5 files posted - I am wondering if it is okay to download them for my own learning. From the looks of the few I have downloaded, they have been very helpful!

Very cool project Emir - and good job with the direction - the generally stern direction I think really helps.

Posted by: JamesT Aug 26 2009, 03:55 PM

Go for it man! ...at least as far as mine is concerned.

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 26 2009, 06:12 PM

Thanks. I haven't checked it but we don't have more time for corrections. I just hope it works as it is


That's ok, thanks for sending it


Yes man, feel free to download anything. Of course don't steal but you can learn from it

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 26 2009, 06:14 PM

Hey Emir, Will you be posting any comments soon?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 26 2009, 06:25 PM

Maybe the first group today but I can't promisse

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 26 2009, 06:27 PM

Thats what it is all about, learning. Here is my final GP5 file. Includes the little things I added on the last take. While no perfect take I am very proud of it.


 leedbreaks_Newclassical_Finaltake_.gp5 ( 3.67K ) : 170

Posted by: enforcer Aug 26 2009, 06:37 PM

Are they video comments?

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 26 2009, 07:11 PM

@Can
Don't think so mate

Posted by: enforcer Aug 26 2009, 07:23 PM

it was a good dream though

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 26 2009, 07:27 PM

Yeah, I know, I dreamt it too

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 27 2009, 02:22 AM

Can we have the recording of it? GP file was popular before but now we're breaking the deadline. Just record what is writen and it's ok. I said I will only judge your technique, not the theory knowledge. You can feel free to send your take as it is It sounds ok now.


If I knew there will be only half of the participants I would consider doing video coments. Now it's too late.

Posted by: Rated Htr Aug 27 2009, 02:26 AM

Will you create a new topic or post comments here Emir? Can't tell you how much I'm anxious to listen to your comment, I really liked my take and think I worked hard on it since the first one I posted here

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 27 2009, 09:42 AM

Yes I will open another thread with the comments and the mix. My Sonar crashed and I can't open it again for some reason. I might need to reinstall it. I just hope the file with the mix is ok.


Just realized that you actually sent your recordings Please ignore my previous comment to you. I didn't understand that your GP file wasn't for me Sorry about that.


Very nice James. In bar 16 you wrote the chord A sus 4. It is F#sus 4. The solo is correct, just talking about the chord above

Posted by: TheKeplerConjecture Aug 27 2009, 02:19 PM

Hey Emir, pm me with some details about your Sonar problem. I might be able to help.

Posted by: leedbreak Aug 27 2009, 06:42 PM

How can you get confused. You probably now hold the record for the longest Collab thread ever, glad you got to manage it instead of me.

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 27 2009, 07:10 PM

Did you find a solution to your Sonar problem?

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 27 2009, 11:11 PM

Hi guys, I reinstalled it and now it all works but I need to remix the whole thing as none of my saved effects are there anymore. Sorry about the delay. Special thanks to TheKeplerConjecture as he works for Cakewalk and offered help via PM. I sorted it out already but thanks for offering help. Next tme I'll talk to him about Sonar. I really support this program and it works the best for me. I tried every possible recording software but I just got so well with this one for some reason

I am actually trying hard not to miss anything It's still going pretty good and under control

Posted by: audiopaal Aug 28 2009, 01:04 AM

Awesome, I'm glad you got it up and running
Looking forward to your comments when the final mix is finished!

I know what your mean, although I'm using Cubase..
I tried out everything as well, but for some reason Cubase and me just "clicked"

Posted by: maharzan Aug 28 2009, 03:43 AM

Can't wait to listen to the final mix and the comments.. Beginners things are really popular here.