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Posted by: Phil66 Feb 27 2017, 09:47 PM

Hello folks, any ideas how to fix this? I know people say "Just don't do it!" but I'm struggling, it seems like there is an invisible thread pulling my finger up. It's worse going from high to low than it is from low to high for some reason. I've tried going really slow, I've tried the A and E strings only. It's freaky when I look at it and I've never noticed it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKmGeVQH0sk

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 10:08 PM

It doesn't look too bad to me but my advice to friends is usually this (had to use a picture as this is hard for me to describe);



What helped me most was keeping the finger shape more similar on individual string, for example you bend the distral and middle phalanx more and more (too much) as you get closer to the High E. So each placement your fingers are in a different shape which probably make things harder.

Also, use the proximal phalanx as much as possible cause its a lighter touch and easyer to the hand. You'll see shredders do this a lot but blues/jazz guys when doing fast passages also does this. Chris might be a good example in this lesson; https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Melodic-Bluesy-Phrasing/

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 27 2017, 11:05 PM

Thanks Mertay but my finger gets worse when I get nearer the bass E

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 11:30 PM

You're relaxed when starting down (no problems), as you approach the high E you stress fingers (no tarantula fingers but not the right focus or comfort, almost like a fist) then as you relax going to the low E you lose control (Tarantula finger).

Thats why I see the problem is actually the fist position at high E, to me you should always be as relaxed as your starting point. But sure I'm curious what the instructors say

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 28 2017, 08:13 AM

Thanks Mertay,

I guess over the years of mindless noodling using the pentatonic (1,4,1,3,1,3,1,3,1,4,1,4) that tarantula finger hasn't had much use and doing an exercise like this highlights its weakness.

Thanks for your advice buddy

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Feb 28 2017, 01:00 PM

Here's a little idea/warm up


(sorry about the potato quality, recorded it on the go )

Lets take 1234 for the sake of simplicity.
You start your 1234 and when you are about to hit the 1 on the next string make sure your other fingers don't move from their place.
Then you you move the 2 to the next string make sure the 3 and 4 don't move.
So on, So on.

I still fail to keep them still from time to time as you can see in the video.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 28 2017, 01:37 PM

Thanks monkey

Posted by: Mertay Feb 28 2017, 03:48 PM

Anytime

And yeah some things are hard to change but still possible, by the way how is your stretching? if you like I'll try sharing a stretch exercise (that must be done daily, but guarantied results ) as I think it might help you with what I'm noticing by your video.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 28 2017, 04:04 PM

Thanks Mertay,

To be honest, and I know everyone is going to go crazy, I don't stretch My practise time is so small and precious I hate to think of "wasting" time stretching. This is from someone who used to spend a lot of time in the gym over many years and ALWAYS stretched before a workout.

I'll have a look at your stretch exercise though please.

Cheers buddy.

Posted by: Mertay Feb 28 2017, 05:03 PM

When I was 11, I prepared for a ballet exam at the concervatory (1st place on exam but due to a problem discovered on my leg after the exam, had to quit and then started guitar). The preparation was mostly body training related and %80 was about streching my body, stuff like this was the easy part for me as a kid



Thats why I guess playing guitar to me is more about dance of fingers so more than strenght, you need a flexible but controllable hand. Though one never needs extreme flexability when dancing, its that potential of the body that make things possible.

ok so the exercise; place finger 4 (pinky) on high e string 15 fret, finger 3 on 14 of b string, finger 2 on 13 of G string, finger 1 on 12 of D string. A wide neck guitar like your ibanez might be better for this.

Now without moving fingers 2-3-4, move finger 1 from fret 12 to fret 11. Don't slide it, lift and place. Now the same with finger 2, lift from 13 to 12 not moving the other fingers etc...

The goal is not to climb to the top but keeping a good position while climing. When maxed your streching (start over each time before you start to feel hurt) start from the same place again and do this 2-3 times. Shouldn't take more that 1-2 minutes.

It can be the first thing you do when you pickup the guitar, cause right where you feel its hardest to strech you'll notice your body and hands are at the most comfortable position

First 4-5 days probably you'll feel stuck but after a week or 2 I bet even you will be amazed by results.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 28 2017, 05:39 PM

Thanks Mertay, I'll try that out.

That picture looks remarkably like a young Jean Claude Van Dam

Cheers folks

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Feb 28 2017, 05:41 PM

No pictures of me from back then so I had to find something

Let me know how it goes, if needed I'll try making a video

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 28 2017, 08:46 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I actually thought you'd hacked my OneDrive and stolen pictures of me

WOW Monkey, that is HARD Also it highlights the fact that my fingers aren't vertical enough because my pinkie in particular mutes the thinner next string, I know sometimes this is what you want but I don't have the option It always mutes it, at the moment anyway

Mertay, just done a quick poor quality vid to be sure I'm doing it correctly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBTr4PrTpk8

Posted by: Mertay Feb 28 2017, 11:26 PM

Very good start! not everybody is that confident on those higher frets, you should definitly keep doing this and if it gets too easy I can make it harder for you

Start higher next time to save some time (like 10th fret maybe) and just a note; the slower you do it the harder it gets. Also hitting the strings is up to you not a must.

Now getting back to the subject, notice how radially different your holding shape is at the high E string now compared to the first video you shared (also you adjusted your body-to-guitar angle right at the end of the streching exercise). Keep in mind this is most likely your most comfortable hand-body position on guitar, try doing scale-like stuff and see if you feel lightness...

Its almost like you're holding a small ball instead of making a fist at high E string. Keep in mind that hand shape through the fretboard and now try that 1-2-3-4 exercise again slowly and carefully. Hopefully this improved positioning might bypass that tarantula habbit in time, we'll see

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Mar 1 2017, 02:16 AM

I remember playing those and wanted to burn my guitar
Keep on working! And remember the goal its not how fast can you play those, but with how little movement you use.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 5 2017, 12:06 PM

Hello folks,

So here is my progress, it's still there but not as bad, any further advice would be gratefully received

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9eGkLx-FZo


Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Mar 5 2017, 12:27 PM

Can you do one more with the same camera angle as the first video?

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 5 2017, 08:44 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPc2zDdBdFI

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Mar 5 2017, 09:21 PM

It seems fine to me. They don't seem to fly out of the neck.
All the excess movement can be easily rid off with practise,

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 5 2017, 09:29 PM

Thanks,

It is getting better but when I speed up it comes back. I think it's mostly down to tension due to unfamiliarity which is what Kris confirmed in his live chat today.

Thanks for looking.

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Mar 5 2017, 09:33 PM

Cool, the hand position is much better (can improve a bit more, keep doing the strech for a little more)

As phase 2; The exercise MonkeyDAthos recommended is about (to me) the force we use to press the string. If too weak the string will buzz and if too hard then many other problems (!) occur. Even if right next to you, its very hard for someone to understand if you're using too much strength but I have suspicion.

Slowly do that exercise across all fretboard patiently, see if you use too much strenght overall or certain parts of the fretboard. Let it buzz first then apply more strenght gently. While doing so, make sure the guitar takes balance from your right elbow as much as possible so you're not overusing your left hand thumb.

Remember to give as much strength from proximal phalanx as possible. Let see how this also works out...

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 5 2017, 09:44 PM

Thanks Mertay,

Yeah, I have always been guilty of pressing too hard, in my early REC takes Gab always told me my guitar was out of tune, I always tuned it. It turned out I was pressing too hard and making sharp notes. My notes aren't very defined in that take, I'm concentrating so hard on my tarantula finger that I'm forgetting everything else.

I don't think the progress is too bad though for one week trying to correct a 20+ year old bad habit

Cheers mate.

Posted by: Mertay Mar 5 2017, 10:00 PM

Not left but my right hand had issues I had to fix in the past and yeah, its not easy and more so needs patience... but it was worth it

Everything becomes so easier or atleast needs less effort. I was afraid adjusting my techniqe would mean to begin everthing from scratch but thankfully this didn't happen. Once you feel confident you fixed the issues, make sure to work on unfamiliar stuff/scales for a while to let it soak in.

And yeah its so nice to see progress this fast, as habbits to fix you also have good experience which to me helps solving things faster

Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 14 2017, 02:35 PM

I'm the same as you Phil I had the right hand of a vice on my fretboard, It's taken me quite a while to lighten up my fretting and start to relax, I still need to do more work stretching as I have way too much tension on two tone fingering, but it's getting there. Pushing my elbow forward enabling my hand to come around the fretboard more has helped

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 14 2017, 06:40 PM

You could always try it "THUMBLESS" E.G. Pull your thumb off the neck and use only your fingertips for pressure on the strings. This seems nearly impossible at first, but it does teach your hand to focus on your fingrtips and lightens your touch on the guitar!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 14 2017, 10:09 PM

To POSTER BOY AND PHILL


I wrote this lick as a drill for you guys to serve as a warmup and ear training, and for practice switching between alt picking and econ picking, at speed, in the same lick. Give it a listen and see if you can do it by ear!! Without tab.It's a basic triad, just moving down in whole steps. Same thing at each position. It's also LOOPABLE!! So you can grab it and loop it in your daw.
Try it
*THUMBLESS (if possible)
*DOUBLE PICKED (Ifpossible)

https://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/inside-picking-drill-with-traverse

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 15 2017, 03:44 AM

And here it is with some keyboards It's turning into a "Thing" I think I'm going to use it as the basis for next weeks Shred Challenge with bonus points for anyone that can play the rythm part as well.


https://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/inside-picking-drill-with-traverse-version-ii

Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2017, 08:55 AM

Thanks Todd

That will be a nice warm up. I've just started going through PG's Intense Rock 1, I've had it since the 90's but never gave it a proper chance.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 15 2017, 04:09 PM

Thanks for that Todd,

I doubt I could sort that out by ear though, my ear is probably my least musical body part

I'll probably give it a try at the weekend. Thanks for your help buddy.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 15 2017, 10:31 PM

Ear Training is part of the very HARD stuff in terms of guitar IMHO. I made you guys a quick video to show you the picking pattern of the right hand here. It combines Alternate inside picking with Econ Picking. Being able to go between these two picking styles is not easy, but will help in a lot of areas of playing.

Here is the vid (NOTE: IM TUNED HALF A STEP OFF! So guitar is tuned down one half step, E.G. Open E is tuned to D#. I threw you a curve ball on this, but I fear I've gone overboard. You can just play half a step higher or tune to D#/Eflat.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 17 2017, 01:41 AM

P.S. was the video helpful? I'll go ahead and put up the Guitar Pro as well. I probably should not have thrown the alternative tuning at ya!

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 18 2017, 09:19 PM

Thanks Todd but as you know, life has thrown a couple of curve balls at me recently so I haven't had as much time to get on my geetar.

Hopefully soon

Cheers

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 21 2017, 05:05 AM

I hate to say this because I don't want to discourage anyone but it has been my experience that unlearning bad habits can often times actually be harder than learning new things such as techniques or songs.
When I first started really trying to buckle down on picking technique and playing faster, it was evident that my fret hand was slowing me down. It took a constant effort and reminding myself to lighten up to only as much pressure as I needed to cleanly sound each note. I also had to constantly remind myself and be conscious of how high I lifted my fingers off of the frets as to only lift them as high as I needed to when running a fast passage. The less motion you have, the faster you can go.
Now it is like I have 2 gears. I will still fret harder when doing some things like riffing or on some blues type stuff, but lightening up to play a fast run now has become a bit more automatic.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 22 2017, 12:00 AM

Quite true You are a case in point though of how it is possible to retrain ones hand and get much better results. It's a constant struggle, even for me sometimes, to keep a light touch and not let natural tension over ride my playing. Also, to not bear down to hard on pick or string unless needed. It's not easy, but with effort, it's doable I created the "Thumbless" technique out of a need to retrain my own hand to not press to hard on the frets. I shared it with students here during video chat and saw many students make great gains from that one simple thing.

Todd

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 22 2017, 04:00 PM

Yeah, those bad habits will come back if you let them. I notice it if I don't play for a while. Sometimes I won't pick up the guitar for a week or more. And when I pick it back up after the downtime, I find I need to run some some drills for a while to get the hand sync dialed in again. I think this mainly because I just start playing with heavy hands again. After all, I have been playing with heavy hands far longer than I have played lightly so those demons are always just below the surface and ready to re-emerge.
I remember the thumbless drills. It really is a good way to get that reset without thinking too much about it. I think the best thing one can do to get past most of the hurdles that keep us from improving is simply to RELAX. The more you can keep your playing relaxed, everything else will come much easier.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 23 2017, 03:27 AM

Well said!!! OLD HABITS DIE HARD!!!! You may find them creeping back in if you are not careful. It's a natural thing. Takes effort to get back what you had but it can be done pretty quick, then your hands remember and go 'oh yeah!"

Also well said on staying relaxed. It's natural to tense up, especially at speed, but taking over your natural body response and forcing your body and hands/arms to relax is something you can train the body to do pretty quickly. You do have to think about it at first, but it becomes more instinctual as you go. If one doesn't relax, one ends up picking from the elbow which IMHO actually puts a cap on your ability instead of enhancing it.

Todd

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 27 2017, 06:00 PM

This is why I miss the weekend video chats with you. For me it was a great way to stay on top of these things and keep the demons at bay, and as a great warmup for any practicing/playing/recording that I might have been doing later.

Phil! How's that finger work coming man?

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 27 2017, 08:29 PM

It's coming on great thanks. I've made big improvements, I think the final fine tuning will take months. Always the same, you get 80% across the road very quickly and the remaining 20% to the other side takes a long time (Pareto Principle)

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 28 2017, 05:27 PM

Glad to hear it, Phil. Keep up the good work! In my line of work over the years (primarily construction) I have become intimately familiar with this principle, also Murphy's law.

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 28 2017, 05:49 PM

Me too in engineering mate, www.omegapistons.com

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 29 2017, 03:20 AM

I miss them as well! It was great fun Hopefully they will come back at some point and we can do wads of crazy thumbless workouts


Todd

Posted by: Phil66 Mar 29 2017, 08:45 PM

I think if the timing was right for me and I had a decent web cam I would get involved more now that I'm not so bashful

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2017, 09:38 PM

I'm not alone, Mr Satriani has an even more freaky finger than me. Watch his pinkie from 4:09 and it's even more weird at 4:15, makes me feel a little better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=JNDyI5b3Fh8

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Dec 5 2017, 03:42 AM

I was sure I had commented on this. Yours is not bad at ALL Phil. I'm far worse for one. And if you look up lots of players they're the same (Andy James andMarco Sfogli off the top of my head).

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 5 2017, 08:33 PM

Thanks Ben

I couldn't believe how weird Satch's pinky is, especially when descending