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Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 19 2007, 07:08 AM

Hey there GMCers. While I was practicing (Im stil am ), something came to my mind. "Are we self taught?" i said. Ive never recieved lessons from a live instructor since i took the electric guitar, so i guess that means i am self taught.

But

We are members of an awesome community called GuitarMasterclass. Instructors record their lessons to help us become better and professional guitar players.. So we do recieve tuition here, but its not live tuition.

So the question is, could you say that you are a self taught guitarrist if you practice the lessons here and those lessons are what is making you improve alot (like in my case).

Personally, i wouldnt mind saying "Self taught? hmmm...not really, i was part of a learning community for guitarrists and thats basically were I learned almost everything i know now. Im proud being a GMC member!"

what do u think?

Posted by: Unleash-The-Shred Nov 19 2007, 07:10 AM

I don't think we are self taught because we are still in contact with all of the instructors if we need help on a specific subject. If you are self taught you have no contact with an instructor from what I believe.

Posted by: Xranthoius Nov 19 2007, 07:10 AM

ahh im confuzed! >.<

Posted by: Smells Nov 19 2007, 07:16 AM

I`d say still self taught, although your provided with the lessons its still down to us to put in the effort and practice to learn and become better.

Posted by: Wyvernx Nov 19 2007, 07:31 AM

To be honest, I don't think anyone is self taught, because in one way or another someone always finds some kind of info or advice somewhere. But I could be wrong

Posted by: Testament Nov 19 2007, 07:39 AM

yeah, i agree with wyvern. unless you've never looked at a chord, scale or tab before, you're not really self-taught.

Posted by: Smells Nov 19 2007, 07:45 AM

Yea I agree up to a point, but thats a little picky imo, if I sat and read a book on what chords are which what notes are what it wouldnt mean a great deal, it doesnt instantly make me able to play it.

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 19 2007, 07:48 AM

Well there is a difference between being taught 101 and a referrence such as a chord or scale book.
I think our lessons here at GMC are boarderline, as we have instructors, but its also kind of like a reference to certain styles/techniques that we search for.

However, i think our instructors deserve waaay more credit than that so when i'm asked if i get lessons i tell them
"Yeh Online lessons at GuitarMasterClass.net"

Hopefully that way i'm helping out the site as much as it helps me.

Posted by: Spiderusalem Nov 19 2007, 07:56 AM

lol I'm not self taught. I was once asked what music school I attended, and I told them "I'm currently enrolled at GMC University, and this semester I'm taking classes from Professor Dahl, Professor Varajic ect. ect."

Posted by: Muris Nov 19 2007, 07:59 AM

Really hard to tell what is self taught 100%.
Guess it means having no instruction or advices but taking everything by yourself.
My point of view.

Posted by: JVM Nov 19 2007, 08:01 AM

I have a question about this. A place like berklee college of music in boston requires two years of professional training in your chosen instrument. However, nowhere that I can find is that defined. I know that if you look up someone in the phone book and take piano lessons, that counts. Since I'm paying for GMC, and doing *lessons* with *professional instructors* (isn't the definition of professional that it is your profession, and or that you're payed for it?). So I wonder if Berklee would accept that as professional instruction.

There is an audition though, and they say if you're good enough they will make exceptions to self taught people. Just makes me wonder.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 19 2007, 08:02 AM

good point there.



I agree, another reason i asked this, was because ive read some guitarist biographies and they say that they were self taught, of course, back in the day there was no Internet, but could they really become that good alone?

Posted by: Pavel Nov 19 2007, 08:03 AM

Rusty says he's self-taught although he was learning by Metal Method's video instructionals. I think you are self-taught as long as you don't officially get a degree on some music academy or something. That's my opinion, i'm not sure.

Posted by: Testament Nov 19 2007, 08:04 AM

sure, but neither does taking an in-person lesson from an instructor.

i've got a friend who's never taken a lesson in his life and he tells people he's self-taught. though i wouldn't consider using guitar pro to learn things as self-taught, just like i wouldn't consider reading scales and chords to be self-taught. not that it isn't harder to learn without an instructor, it most certainly is. honestly, i think the problem lies in the wording. if there was an in-between place that didn't have to be self-taught or taught by an instructor, things would be much clearer.




i couldn't agree more.

Posted by: Smells Nov 19 2007, 08:07 AM

agreed

Posted by: Hisham Nov 19 2007, 08:26 AM

if you are a self taught you wouldnt be here. you have a good chance here to built your playing and style . you have many intsructors at GMC .and each one of them has a different style . i think its a big chance for you here. have a nice day

Posted by: Pavel Nov 19 2007, 08:30 AM

I think that Online resources and books don't count as "being taught". it's like learning C++ by online tutorials - you're not a degree programmer/developer. Same goes here - you're self-taught as long as you don't enroll some educational institution.

Posted by: Unleash-The-Shred Nov 19 2007, 08:33 AM

Thats true, everyone has someones help at certain points. Except for the first person to ever play the guitar probably.

Posted by: Wyvernx Nov 19 2007, 08:35 AM

Yes! that was the only exception I was going to mention

Posted by: Muris Nov 19 2007, 08:36 AM

I can almost agree here in total with you Pavel,regarding to instructional videos,books,tabs,sheets etc.
But having private classes in person with real instructor,that probably eliminates self taught option,
even if you don't get degree for it.
Once more,my opinion.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 19 2007, 08:42 AM

Yeah, you are probably right here. So i guess being self-taught is like not having a live lessons with an instructor. Online materials and books and other resources don't count when determining "taught" or "self-taught".

Posted by: Muris Nov 19 2007, 08:54 AM

Yeah,that's what I meant.
Or even situation like this.
I had classical guitar classes during music high school,I'm not using anything from there
in music that I play mostly,cause it's different technique,tone,styles etc.
Also I played stuff like Metallica,Maiden,some Satch's and Vai's tunes even before I got into music school.
Now,am I self taught?

Posted by: shredmandan Nov 19 2007, 09:48 AM

This is how i have always looked at it

Posted by: fkalich Nov 19 2007, 10:38 AM

correct in principle. a distinction if how much freedom you have to shape your efforts. here you have total freedom. with a formal teacher, not so.

which can be good or bad, depending on the person.

Posted by: peterorg54 Nov 19 2007, 10:46 AM

hahahaha

good one spider.



well and i say we are self taught.

because we can say "im self taught and this good " to people..

Posted by: Slammer Nov 19 2007, 11:05 AM

Untill I Actually pay a teacher to give me a live 1 on 1 lesson, I will alway consider myself "Self Taught".

I had to Teach myself how to do things, without a teachers help...Yep I'd say that's self taught

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 19 2007, 12:14 PM

i taught myself many things for guitar, but if you use GMC, i dont see how youre self taught, youre using someone elses advice and technique interpertation to further better your own. hell, if not for pavel's sweeping advice and lessons, i would be nowhere near where i am now.

Im proud to say GMC has helped make me the musician i am today

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 10:37 AM

Cool Topic, I would say were somehwere between being Taught and self taught "borderline" is the word im looking for.

The reason is, we are chooseing our on practice regime, which techniques and areas we wish to study, monotoring out own progress without correction from the outside (unless we choose to upload a video to GMC). But at the same time its like haveing a live teacher infront of you!! So were controlling our own learning process, ultimatley it is ourselves that determine progress.

Posted by: Iluha Nov 19 2007, 04:07 PM

I think that "Self Taught" applies to only those that learn by listening to songs and trying to recreate them on the instrument, when we take a Live Teacher, he actually guides us on where we should put our fingers and what does all those sounds mean, preety similar to taking lessons online, only diffrence is that here only way a teacher can correct us is if we post a video.

Also if you learn from tabs than you are not self taught, cause it's like the teachers here, it can teach you how to play things, but unlike the teachers here, it can't assist you any further!

Do I make sense?

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 19 2007, 04:13 PM

Hmmm, that seems better, maybe we need a new word for it?

Posted by: Goliath Nov 19 2007, 04:29 PM

It seems fairly obvious to me that we would still be considered "Self taught" since really, using these video lessons is not really different than buying any other course materials, like books of scales, etc. There's a difference between studying a diagram/video and attempting to play it rather than have someone analyze your playing and correcting any quirks/flaws you pick up along the way.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 19 2007, 04:30 PM

But on the other hand, with GMC you have the possibility to interact with other students, and the instructors. You can upload songs and videos and get advice that way, so it is not truly like just buying a DVD and working with it.

I actually think that GMC is self paced study, but not self-taught.

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 04:35 PM

Self Shreducation ?? Oh my ive lost it

Posted by: Goliath Nov 19 2007, 04:37 PM

What's really the difference between this and going to concerts/bars/music stores and palling around with other guitarists and discussing technique/theory? It's still tapping a resource of a community, albeit GMC makes doing that MUCH easier, but this weekend alone I talked shop with the guitarist at the bar I was at on friday as well as waiting for a concert to start last night. I don't think it's a far stretch to lump the two into the same group.

Personally I don't really care whether I'm "self taught" or not, since I feel like I have very low natural ability for this instrument and have to work to offset it with loads of practice, which is apparently a pretty common theme among many musicians.

I guess you really need to define what being "taught" is, whether it comprises formal instruction at in an academic setting, private instruction in a music store, online lessons, etc. I doubt we'll arrive at a generally accepted definition.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 19 2007, 04:42 PM

Shreducation is an awesome name for the guitar website!!! Awesome idea Mattacuk!

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 04:45 PM

Sometimes I wonder where these great ideas come from!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 19 2007, 06:15 PM

That hamster in your brain of course! He pedals a little harder for a minute then an idea pops out! He must have been knackered after the tshirt competition ...

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 19 2007, 07:25 PM

check out whats in my signature now Mattacuk, thats a good word i must say

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Nov 19 2007, 08:28 PM

Maybe E-taught??

I prefer Shreducated

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 09:33 PM

LOL! That is awsome... I am honoured



yeah hes pretty lazy....

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 19 2007, 09:38 PM

lmao

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 09:40 PM

Hey dont laugh at my hamster

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 19 2007, 10:28 PM

Yeah, that hamster is truly a "Genious"

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 11:00 PM

Posted by: Pavel Nov 19 2007, 11:02 PM

Hahahahaaaaaaa what a sweet hamster!!!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 19 2007, 11:03 PM

Is that the actual literal hamster in question ???

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 19 2007, 11:05 PM

Possibly

Posted by: Muris Nov 19 2007, 11:51 PM

Nice hamster Matt,get him shreducated as well!!!!!!

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 20 2007, 01:47 AM

actually this it, armed and ready



I just realized hes holding the beam rifle from gundam

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 20 2007, 03:13 AM

You mean armed and shready

Really cute pic

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Nov 21 2007, 12:59 PM

cool hamster!


Regarding the topic... I think I am self taught in general as i make up my own practise system and workouts. BUT I looked some great video lessons on the internet, learned some great licks from older musicians, listened some great music and picked up a lot of phrases... So the influence I had durign my own practising is big. Man is social being and is influenced with a world around him. So when i say i am self thought i generally say it in terms of "not went to music school".

Posted by: Smells Nov 21 2007, 02:08 PM

I think this is probably one of the best answers to the original question, and probably sums up "self taught" as being someone that has "taught themselves" with the use of books, vids etc.
I understand why some may say this is technically not "self taught" as you`ve used other peoples influences, literature, but as you said there, you set your own practising systems without the aid of teachers in a music school or one on one tuition.
You cannot read a book and instantly be able to play what is written you have to "teach yourself", surely that is "self taught"? someone made a comment earlier in the post that this can be said of one on one tuition, which yes is true, but that instructor in front of you can show you and instruct you on the spot how to phrase the note etc, there is a huge difference doing it alone.

I think with reference to GMC I now have that tuition, I am able to interact with the instructors and they can advise etc, so now for me personally I can say that up till now "I am largely self taught but now recieving some tuition from GMC"

Posted by: g-forcelover Nov 21 2007, 02:18 PM

my hamster isn't so smart

Posted by: Smells Nov 21 2007, 02:20 PM

eeek!!

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 21 2007, 02:23 PM

mines a big, rather deformed hamsters so it goes more like this for me...

Posted by: g-forcelover Nov 21 2007, 02:28 PM

crap. don't know how to quote. But the post above me, that things kinda cute! exept for the thing hanging out his mouth. whatever it is.

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 21 2007, 02:41 PM

Click the quote button at the bottom of the post you wish to quote, it should turn red, the click on "Add Reply", it doesnt work with fast reply though

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 21 2007, 03:26 PM

hes my snake eating hamster, i keep him in the cellar and starve him untill we're ready to hunt.

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 21 2007, 05:49 PM

That sounds lovely, hopefully he doesnt turn on the master!

Posted by: seagull Nov 22 2007, 03:07 PM

I don't really care if I'm self taught or not, because the only thing that counts is that you develop some skills, and eventually turn out a sweet guitar-player regardless of the extent of tuition.
I was teaching it to myself for 2 years before I signed up here. I got some advice now and then from friends, but I'm sure I got used to playing some things the wrong ways, and therefore I occasionally struggle with some small but very bothering bad habits. I think one should care less about how one's learned playing guitar, because you can recieve all the tuition in the world and still suck badly, it doesn't come by itself, you DO have to struggle to achieve.

"Practice 'till you kill yourself!" - John Petrucci

Posted by: Understudy Nov 22 2007, 03:49 PM

Interesting thread, and I really don't know the answer. All I can say, is that if I am self taught, I must be a really crappy teacher

Posted by: leedbreak Nov 22 2007, 04:03 PM

Tried to Self teach, well there was my first mistake.

Posted by: DeepRoots Nov 22 2007, 04:13 PM

when trying to self teach i heard about alternate picking, and the idea i had from the internet was "play down up down on a string"..
okay i'm thinking lets go....

down-up-down <up a string> down-up-down <up a string> down-up-down etc...

most of you will recognise that as economy picking, though for almost a year i thought i was getting great at alternate picking.

As soon as i got some proper advice from a paul gilbert video i felt like a fool, and spent what seemed like forever trying to get that upstroke on the next string!

See that was self taught- and it went so so so wrong for me- not only did i have to learn a new picking style i had to unlearn the old one, i really do think GMC is literally teaching us whatever we choose to learn and i'm glad i'm no longer making mistakes like i used to.

...who knows- maybe in 5 years i'll approach economy picking for the first time> or will it be the second???

Posted by: Gerald Nov 26 2007, 06:25 PM

I feel that if you don't have another person literally teaching you on a regular basis, then you are self taught. GMC is great because it's at your own pace. It's lessons from more experience players broken down with tabs and videos, but it's still not that one on one interaction with another person.

While this is a pay site, I wouldn't say that I'm paying all the instructors for lessons. I'd say that I pay a subscription fee for a site that has lessons from instructors online in addition to a forum to ask follow up questions.

I think GMC does blur the line between purely self taught straight from a book or video and a live instructor, which is awesome. But at the end of the day I'd say I am a self taught player. I have taken some guitar lessons here and there when I use to play, but not for any great length of time.

I feel that having an instructor is the fastest way to excel when learning material because you can have that direct and immediate correction or praise or pointer. Whereas learning even through GMC, if you fumble with something you utilimately are the one left trying to figure it out on the guitar even if you post a post with follow up questions.

Posted by: krawetz Nov 27 2007, 06:33 AM

I'd say it all depends on how you started playing before you came to GMC

I personally beleive I'm self taught because i figured out hammer-ons pulloffs bending and sliding without an insturctor or anything.

but if GMC is where you started than you were taught by Kris.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 29 2007, 09:06 PM

Remember that Kris is not the only instructor here...

Posted by: skennington Dec 1 2007, 11:22 PM

How about self-learned. Reguardless of where the info comes from, its up to you to absorb it and put it to the strings. Just my 2-cents!

Posted by: drummingguitarist06 Dec 2 2007, 01:15 AM

My personal opinion. I think I am self taught, because I have never received formal education. I was NOT self-taught on the drums, I had instructors...but the instruction this website provides is a reference tool, and it's based solely on how you want to use it, not having some guy breathe down your neck about everything you are doing, you simply learn from what you interpret. To me, using this website is just a massive reference, so I believe I am still self-taught.

The self-learned, is a VERY good way to put it. I agree 100%.