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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Ok, I Need Serious Help

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 01:45 PM

I didn't know it was going to be this hard to tune a guitar mad.gif

It's a Ibanez Satriani model (posted some pics on earlier threads) and it has a Lo Pro Edge Bridge, and I'm completely lost...
I need help or some good instruction over the internet, other wise I might start crying sad.gif

Posted by: rockztar Aug 5 2008, 01:50 PM

here you got, i think this is what youre looking for

http://www.guitarnoise.com/lesson/tuning-a-floyd-rose/

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 02:08 PM

QUOTE (rockztar @ Aug 5 2008, 01:50 PM) *
here you got, i think this is what youre looking for

http://www.guitarnoise.com/lesson/tuning-a-floyd-rose/

Thanks, I'll try to understand that biggrin.gif biggrin.gif It's just that I'm new to this and it might take some time smile.gif

Yeah, I don't understand a word of that... It says that if the Bridge is leaning forwards the strings are too loose, so... which way is forwads, is it to the direction of the neck... My Bridge is little bit in the air from the back, does this mean that the strings are too loose... I'm scared sad.gif

Posted by: rockztar Aug 5 2008, 02:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1c-7-VMY_w

Posted by: wollace03 Aug 5 2008, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (rockztar @ Aug 5 2008, 03:21 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1c-7-VMY_w



thanx for the link!!

my 2 main guitars are an ibanez rg560 and a yamaha - both with floyd rose.
the string changing process is very annoying for me so i fixed the bridge on the yamaha (no up bending) and for the ibanez - twice a year i bring it to a guitar technician to give it a string chance and to check the setup...

that actually the main reason why i wanna buy a new guitar without a tremolo....

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 02:31 PM

he doesn't say anything about the fine tune knobs at the back???? He's got them all screwed tight, and the other intstruction say that they should be in the middle....

Posted by: rockztar Aug 5 2008, 02:42 PM

as far as i remember you should tune the guitar as good as you can and then lock the locking saddle... then you use the tiny screws one the bridge to make some fine adjustment to the string...
but not totally sure cause i dont own a guitar a FR like bridge

Posted by: MickeM Aug 5 2008, 02:45 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 03:31 PM) *
he doesn't say anything about the fine tune knobs at the back???? He's got them all screwed tight, and the other intstruction say that they should be in the middle....

I use to set them in the middle. Aim to get the tremolo aligned with the body unless it has a notch that you should set aligned instead.

Tune up
adjust the screws (inside the guitar reached from the lit on the back) to tighten or loosen. The goal is to get the forces between the strings and the springs to equal while the tremoli sits aligned.
Tune up again and check the result.
Repeat (forever) wink.gif

One sucky part is that now when the strings are new they will stretch so one idea is to set it up just alright for now, play a few hours and when they have fully stretch, get back to setting up the trem.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 02:57 PM

It's all said more or less so I would just add
to replace strings one at the time,
get it in tune,then remove next string,tune it etc.

It might be confusing,even scary if you have no experience
with floating bridge but once you get the procedure
it's really easy,no worries. smile.gif

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 03:11 PM

Why is it that now that I have tuned it, and Closed the locks on the top it falls out from it, and when it tighten it with the fine tune knobs, it only stays in tune a second and now the bridge is definitely raised from the body?????

should I know tighten the springs under the plastic cover???

I got to go eat something this sweating, has made me lost tons of energy smile.gif

QUOTE (rockztar @ Aug 5 2008, 02:42 PM) *
as far as i remember you should tune the guitar as good as you can and then lock the locking saddle... then you use the tiny screws one the bridge to make some fine adjustment to the string...
but not totally sure cause i dont own a guitar a FR like bridge

that is what I've been doing but, it wont stay in tune, what's up???? huh.gif

Posted by: botoxfox Aug 5 2008, 03:13 PM

I recommend you get yourself a tremol-no (small clamp type).

http://www.allparts.uk.com/tremolno-tremolo-locking-device-p-3160.html?p=product

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 04:11 PM) *
Why is it that now that I have tuned it, and Closed the locks on the top it falls out from it, and when it tighten it with the fine tune knobs, it only stays in tune a second and now the bridge is definitely raised from the body?????

should I know tighten the springs under the plastic cover???

I got to go eat something this sweating, has made me lost tons of energy smile.gif


that is what I've been doing but, it wont stay in tune, what's up???? huh.gif


If it's in tune but bridge is raised from the body then
you should tighten the springs,of course!

But,what was the position of bridge when you bought the guitar,
was it in tune etc?

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 5 2008, 03:16 PM

For you as a total beginner with floyd trems I would suggest you take your Ibanez to the store and let a pro set up your guitar. Watch how he is doing it andlearn from it, maybe he is kind enough to teach you how to change strings/tunings...

It makes no sense if you accidently screw up your brand new (and expensive) guitar because you have to figure things out yourself. I learned it myself but on a cheap as hell licensed trem so there was not much to loose anyways but on you JS model it would be a total waste. Take it to and learn from a pro!!!

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 5 2008, 03:13 PM) *
If it's in tune but bridge is raised from the body then
you should tighten the springs,of course!

But,what was the position of bridge when you bought the guitar,
was it in tune etc?

No it wasn't, the lower E string was D sharp otherwise yes, and the bridge was a little raisen from the body

QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Aug 5 2008, 03:16 PM) *
For you as a total beginner with floyd trems I would suggest you take your Ibanez to the store and let a pro set up your guitar. Watch how he is doing it andlearn from it, maybe he is kind enough to teach you how to change strings/tunings...

It makes no sense if you accidently screw up your brand new (and expensive) guitar because you have to figure things out yourself. I learned it myself but on a cheap as hell licensed trem so there was not much to loose anyways but on you JS model it would be a total waste. Take it to and learn from a pro!!!

Dude, stop scaring me smile.gif Can it really brake for this :???????

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 5 2008, 03:29 PM

It is just frustrating to tune a floyd for the first time and the mechanic parts won't get better from screwing arround with them for hours...

Posted by: Jose Mena Aug 5 2008, 03:34 PM

Hopefully I can be of some help. You are right Floyd Rose Tremolos are a pain in the neck sometimes, but learning how to set them up is really not that hard.

When I replace the strings on my Ibanez RG with Floyd Rose, I do as suggested here. One at a time and it has to be the same gauge and brand otherwise the tension will change, the bridge will move, and the guitar will have to be setup again.

Whenever I have to remove all the strings from my guitar (I clean the fretboard every now and then), I remove all strings and loosen the springs in the back, when putting the strings back I will place only a few strings (usually 1st and 6th) and use a wood block and stick it in the back so that the tremolo is locked in place. Sometimes what I use is those little wooden popsicle sticks like 5 or 6 of them cut in half and stacked on top of each other. I can add a picture later if this is a little confusing.

What this will do is prevent the strings from pulling the tremolo while tunning, and makes it much easier. Then I add all the strings, tune the guitar, add the springs and start tightening them until the wood block practicaly falls off, you do not want to tighten too much, you only want to tighten exactly as much needed for the block to come off. If done well the guitar should be in tune with the bridge in the right position. Do any fine tuning, and you are done. There is much more too guitar setup, but if the guitar was setup properly from the store, this should be enough

I Hope this helps

Jose

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 03:42 PM

It just wont stay tuned, if tune the low E string, and move on the the next then the Low E string comes out from tuning

Thanks, for the tips Jose smile.gif But I'm not changing strings, I just don't know how to tune this guitar, it wont stay tuned what am I doing wrong ??? sad.gif

Posted by: MickeM Aug 5 2008, 03:47 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 04:42 PM) *
It just wont stay tuned, if tune the low E string, and move on the the next then the Low E string comes out from tuning

Thanks, for the tips Jose smile.gif But I'm not changing strings, I just don't know how to tune this guitar, it wont stay tuned what am I doing wrong ??? sad.gif

because when you start tuning the next string you change the overall tension. But like I said before, tune it just fair then play for a couple of hours until the strings are fully stretched. THEN go for the final tuning

Posted by: Gus Aug 5 2008, 03:51 PM

Hi Kyldeee.

I had the same problem when I first moved to a floyd-rose guitar. This is the one site that has all the information you gonna need:

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

For the time being I'd suggest you to use the same string gauge it came from factory, until you learn better how to setup it.

Don't use the locking system until the strings are fully stretched. After that you lock them and have no any further problems with tuning.

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 03:54 PM

QUOTE (Gus @ Aug 5 2008, 03:51 PM) *
Hi Kyldeee.

I had the same problem when I first moved to a floyd-rose guitar. This is the one site that has all the information you gonna need:

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

For the time being I'd suggest you to use the same string gauge it came from factory, until you learn better how to setup it.

Don't use the locking system until the strings are fully stretched. After that you lock them and have no any further problems with tuning.

Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out smile.gif

Posted by: JeroenKole Aug 5 2008, 04:22 PM

A floyd rose can be a true pain in the neck, especially when tuning for the first time.

Probably your guitar will have fine tuners on the bridge itself. Use those for what the name implies.

use your regular tuners to get it about right.

Always, always always use a small wooden board when tuning your guitar or when restringing it. Shove it under the floyd rose to make sure the bridge doesn't go up.

What I usually do when tuning my Ibanez is loosen the bolt of the locking nut for the high E and B string, tune the E string and close the bolt again, not to tightly because closed is closed. then move on to the G string, same procedure. A string. and then we do the string that haven't been done yet. B string, D string and low E string. This way your bridge will probably stay in place pretty much and your strings if they have stretched a little (should be the part of the tuning process) should stay in tune.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (JeroenKole @ Aug 5 2008, 04:22 PM) *
A floyd rose can be a true pain in the neck, especially when tuning for the first time.

Probably your guitar will have fine tuners on the bridge itself. Use those for what the name implies.

use your regular tuners to get it about right.

Always, always always use a small wooden board when tuning your guitar or when restringing it. Shove it under the floyd rose to make sure the bridge doesn't go up.

What I usually do when tuning my Ibanez is loosen the bolt of the locking nut for the high E and B string, tune the E string and close the bolt again, not to tightly because closed is closed. then move on to the G string, same procedure. A string. and then we do the string that haven't been done yet. B string, D string and low E string. This way your bridge will probably stay in place pretty much and your strings if they have stretched a little (should be the part of the tuning process) should stay in tune.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

I'm now stretching the strings like a mad man wink.gif

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 05:03 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 05:31 PM) *
I'm now stretching the strings like a mad man wink.gif


It's very hard to tune it even if bridge is tuned fine,
you have to tighten strings all the time,
one is going up and another is going down,tune wise.
But once you get it done,and I'm sure you will smile.gif
then just be careful when changing strings,
be sure to use same gauge and even same brand.
One string at the time as said. smile.gif

Once again,if you have major issues with it
then I would listen to advice above,
take it to some music shop and let them do the job,
watch what they are doing and try to memorize all
steps in process. smile.gif

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 05:06 PM

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 5 2008, 05:03 PM) *
It's very hard to tune it even if bridge is tuned fine,
you have to tighten strings all the time,
one is going up and another is going down,tune wise.
But once you get it done,and I'm sure you will smile.gif
then just be careful when changing strings,
be sure to use same gauge and even same brand.
One string at the time as said. smile.gif

Once again,if you have major issues with it
then I would listen to advice above,
take it to some music shop and let them do the job,
watch what they are doing and try to memorize all
steps in process. smile.gif

Okay, thanks... I have a question tho, again biggrin.gif Why is it that the lower E string is kind high on the fret and the high E strings more in the middle of the fret board, It's like the the Lower E almost comes out, that the are not centered.... Did that make any sense biggrin.gif

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 5 2008, 05:09 PM

That's how the guitar was set up, a guitar tech can fix that and center both strings...

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 06:06 PM) *
Okay, thanks... I have a question tho, again biggrin.gif Why is it that the lower E string is kind high on the fret and the high E strings more in the middle of the fret board, It's like the the Lower E almost comes out, that the are not centered.... Did that make any sense biggrin.gif


Not sure if got that right,could you post a picture? smile.gif

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 05:15 PM

Yeah, I think I just better take it to a professional, I really don't want to do something that I shouldn't smile.gif I'll put it away and call to the music store tomorrow.... shame to, I really wanted to start shredding with it smile.gif But better safe than sorry I guess smile.gif

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 05:18 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 06:15 PM) *
Yeah, I think I just better take it to a professional, I really don't want to do something that I shouldn't smile.gif I'll put it away and call to the music store tomorrow.... shame to, I really wanted to start shredding with it smile.gif But better safe than sorry I guess smile.gif


Smart move,I'm sure it'll be fine after tech guy take a look at it,no worries. smile.gif

Posted by: Gus Aug 5 2008, 06:46 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 5 2008, 06:06 PM) *
Okay, thanks... I have a question tho, again biggrin.gif Why is it that the lower E string is kind high on the fret and the high E strings more in the middle of the fret board, It's like the the Lower E almost comes out, that the are not centered.... Did that make any sense biggrin.gif


If I got it right I think that your action is set too much diagonally. At least on my Ibanez one can set indepedently the lower and upper part of the bridge, leading to several possible diagonal arrangements.

But anyway, I would follow Muris advice and take to a guitar tech. If he is a friendly one he will also help you learning how you can do some adjustements yourself later.

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (Gus @ Aug 5 2008, 06:46 PM) *
If I got it right I think that your action is set too much diagonally. At least on my Ibanez one can set indepedently the lower and upper part of the bridge, leading to several possible diagonal arrangements.

But anyway, I would follow Muris advice and take to a guitar tech. If he is a friendly one he will also help you learning how you can do some adjustements yourself later.

I'm so pissed off right now, I really want to play with my new guitar, this just sucks mad.gif Just my luck that everything goes to hell... sad.gif

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 5 2008, 06:52 PM

Smartest move would have been letting it get set up nad stuff right when you bought it but I'm sure they'll still do it for free as it's only two or three days old (at least my musicstore would do that...)

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Aug 5 2008, 06:52 PM) *
Smartest move would have been letting it get set up nad stuff right when you bought it but I'm sure they'll still do it for free as it's only two or three days old (at least my musicstore would do that...)

Yeah, I hope so... I just didn't know then when I bought it, that it was going to be this hard sad.gif

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 5 2008, 06:58 PM

Maybe they can explain you right on the spot how to tune the tremolo and then you can do it in the future. Sure floyds are a pain in the (lower back^^) when you have to deal with setting them up but the benfit is that it'll stay in tune no matter what meesed up divebomb moves your going to perform!

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 5 2008, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Aug 5 2008, 06:58 PM) *
Maybe they can explain you right on the spot how to tune the tremolo and then you can do it in the future. Sure floyds are a pain in the (lower back^^) when you have to deal with setting them up but the benfit is that it'll stay in tune no matter what meesed up divebomb moves your going to perform!

Yeah, I'll call the store tomorrow and throw some questions at them smile.gif

Posted by: MickeM Aug 5 2008, 07:43 PM

It's not too late to return it and get a PRS Mira for the same money. Stop tail bridge means NO further trouble.
Between a PRS and an Ibanez I'd get the PRS 10 times out of 10, hands down. But that's me.

And if Gibson still made their doublecuts it would stand between that and a doublecut PRS.

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 6 2008, 08:35 AM

QUOTE (MickeM @ Aug 5 2008, 07:43 PM) *
It's not too late to return it and get a PRS Mira for the same money. Stop tail bridge means NO further trouble.
Between a PRS and an Ibanez I'd get the PRS 10 times out of 10, hands down. But that's me.

And if Gibson still made their doublecuts it would stand between that and a doublecut PRS.

I'm not quite sure if they Have PRS guitars....

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 6 2008, 03:07 PM

Oh Yeah, Everything is fine now smile.gif
I took the guitar to the store this morning,
and they fixed it, it was just minor error,
the neck was a little wrong, that's why the
strings weren't centered to the fretboard....

He also showed me how to tune it, so
next time I should be able to do it myself biggrin.gif

And all for free of course smile.gif

Now I'm learning Always with you, Always with me by Satriani,
and I'm having a blast biggrin.gif

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 6 2008, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 6 2008, 04:07 PM) *
Oh Yeah, Everything is fine now smile.gif
I took the guitar to the store this morning,
and they fixed it, it was just minor error,
the neck was a little wrong, that's why the
strings weren't centered to the fretboard....

He also showed me how to tune it, so
next time I should be able to do it myself biggrin.gif

And all for free of course smile.gif

Now I'm learning Always with you, Always with me by Satriani,
and I'm having a blast biggrin.gif

Cheers smile.gif


Great to hear, have fun with your new guitar! smile.gif

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 6 2008, 03:42 PM

Good to hear, man!

Will you be able to get it fixed or repaired for free every time?

I remember being able to that when I bought my schecter. A life time of repairing. Too bad I don't like the guy who owns the shop too much :/

Posted by: kaznie_NL Aug 6 2008, 05:42 PM

Good to hear that Kyldee, I followed this thread. good luck with your JS!

Posted by: Gus Aug 7 2008, 12:10 AM

Nice to hear that!

Guess, people wil be waiting for review of the JS now rolleyes.gif

Posted by: kyldeee Aug 7 2008, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 6 2008, 03:42 PM) *
Good to hear, man!

Will you be able to get it fixed or repaired for free every time?

I remember being able to that when I bought my schecter. A life time of repairing. Too bad I don't like the guy who owns the shop too much :/

Thanks, guys smile.gif Yeah, I think so, cause he said that if problems like this one will ever appear, then I should bring it straight to him....

QUOTE (Gus @ Aug 7 2008, 12:10 AM) *
Nice to hear that!

Guess, people wil be waiting for review of the JS now rolleyes.gif

I guess I could try and do one, but I don't have a clue how to make one biggrin.gif

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 7 2008, 12:33 PM

QUOTE (kyldeee @ Aug 7 2008, 01:15 PM) *
I guess I could try and do one, but I don't have a clue how to make one biggrin.gif


Easy,take all specs somewhere from the net
and then write your impression about the instrument,
there is a template in gear-review board
where you can see how a review should look like. smile.gif

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 7 2008, 02:22 PM

Also you can write your review directly into wiki since we are currently in a process of transcribing all reviews form the forum there smile.gif

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