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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Ap Help Needed
Posted by: gregc1 Apr 1 2013, 04:23 PM
Hey guys, I have a notoriously tough time really applying myself to focused practice on individual skills but I have made the conscious decision to bear down and improve my alternate picking speed. As I try and bump up my lesson difficulty I noticed that I have hit a speed wall and while I may be able to play the majority of the lesson, I can't complete many anymore due to small sections with speed bursts.
I realize that working on patterns with a metronome is a way to go about it but I was wondering if anybody had any methods that were a little more engaging and I guess, more fun to play. I know there are a lot of speed demons on here and I was just curious what worked for you guys to get yourself through that wall. Thanks in advance!
Posted by: klasaine Apr 1 2013, 04:31 PM
Metronome is pretty much the 'industry standard' way to go but if you absolutely hate it then find an AP lick/line you really dig, record or get a backing track (plenty here at GMC) and practice with the track. Start slow and increase only when you're smooth and clean at each tempo.
Posted by: Socky42 Apr 1 2013, 04:36 PM
One way to make it more engaging is to just use alternate picking, or whatever it is you wanna learn, while playing to a backing track I guess. That way you incorporate it musically and improve your picking.
But honestly, for pure speed improvements, drilling away at it is the quickest way to get faster.
Posted by: gregc1 Apr 1 2013, 05:26 PM
Thanks guys, I know the 'ol metronome is probably the best way to do it combined with a little self control and dedication, it's just painful to think about. 
Posted by: HungryForHeaven Apr 1 2013, 05:51 PM
I would suggest that you come up with a few patterns working the four different ways to cross strings, e.g. Gilbert type patterns, and which you can move up and down the neck within, say, a minor scale. For each of them, record simple backing tracks (basic drum beat and maybe bass and keyboard) which you can load into the Guitar Rig* tape deck and change the speed without changing the pitch. This has basically the same function as a metronome but it's more fun to play along. One backing track may even be enough for all patterns.
*You use GR if I remember correctly..
Oh, and if you find the magic AP trick I'd be interested..
Example of a lick that covers outside picking both ways (up and down).
E------------5-----------------5--7--8------------7--------------------7--9--10--...
B--5--6--8-----8--6--5--6--8------------6--8--10-----10-8--6--8--10--------------...
Posted by: gregc1 Apr 1 2013, 06:49 PM
*You use GR if I remember correctly..
Oh, and if you find the magic AP trick I'd be interested..
Example of a lick that covers outside picking both ways (up and down).
E------------5-----------------5--7--8------------7--------------------7--9--10--...
B--5--6--8-----8--6--5--6--8------------6--8--10-----10-8--6--8--10--------------...
Thanks Hungry, yeah I do use GR3. That tapedeck function is really nice for things like this. I'm going to browse some of the AP lessons and find a couple tracks to work off of and go from there.
You're actually one of the guys inspiring me to work on this. Your AP runs are so smooth and when combined with your already melodic takes it just sounds so damn good. It's a big missing piece from my playing.
Posted by: leonard478 Apr 1 2013, 07:30 PM
Todds Shred bootcamp will help alot!, send him a message
I realize that working on patterns with a metronome is a way to go about it but I was wondering if anybody had any methods that were a little more engaging and I guess, more fun to play. I know there are a lot of speed demons on here and I was just curious what worked for you guys to get yourself through that wall. Thanks in advance!
Posted by: HungryForHeaven Apr 1 2013, 07:41 PM
Thanks, Greg, for your kind words. 
However, I struggle a lot with outside picking and I try hard to fix it. Different exercises, experimenting with pick angles and hand positions, the Vai way, the non-Vai way, with or without bursts, etc. Maybe we can exchange some experiences and thoughts and exercises and other stuff related to alternate picking. Video diary or other means of documenting progress?
I do these with a metronome only, but I'm considering making a backing track. Start playing this one:
Outside_Picking___ascending.gp5 ( 3.24K )
: 100
at a comfortable tempo, 5-10 times or as many as you find suitable. Rest for 30 seconds or so, then increase the speed. Repeat until you can't keep up, at which point you half the speed and do the same with this one:
Outside_Picking___ascending_with_bursts.gp5 ( 3.55K )
: 95
Posted by: jstcrsn Apr 1 2013, 11:43 PM
I like tux guitar , it has a metronome you can turn on and a note to follow
and the second is training for technical difficulties( i believe you are good enough to figure which part is palm muted and which runs incorperate inside and outside picking
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 2 2013, 09:38 AM
Mate, all techniques are a never ending challenge, but you mustn't think of them as a challenge but as a means to an end. I think that the more situations you place yourself into, the better you will become. Diversity is one way to do it and in combination with the idea of trying to implement your techniques into musical phrases, which should be perfected by isolating the difficult parts and rehearsing them with a metronome, these should provide constant progress.
I have reposted a bunch of interesting exercises which will surely provide some fun and fresh ideas on exercising AP - check it out:
Posted by: Spock Apr 2 2013, 10:06 AM
Are these .gp files Guitar Pro files? I was thinking about getting guitar pro for this exact same need.
Is there any other programs anyone can suggest where audio can be loaded in, say an MP3 file, and slowed down/looped to build speed and keeping the same pitch?
Posted by: HungryForHeaven Apr 2 2013, 10:14 AM
Yes. However, these can also be opened, played and edited with Tux Guitar which is free software.
Posted by: Spock Apr 2 2013, 10:41 AM
Awesome, thank you! Never heard of Tux guitar.
Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Apr 2 2013, 01:51 PM
getting the consciousness of every note stroke kind help me out.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 2 2013, 02:06 PM
Hi mate! I will share here the exercises that helped me with AP technique. I worked on these ones using metronome and also over backing tracks and songs (to make the practice funnier).
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=42829
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=42830
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=42831
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=43577
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=43715&st=0#entry576899
Posted by: gregc1 Apr 2 2013, 02:55 PM
Wow, guys thanks so much for all of the files and lesson ideas!
I'm going to dedicate 20-30 minutes a day on this and see what happens.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 2 2013, 03:09 PM
I'm going to dedicate 20-30 minutes a day on this and see what happens.
Excellent! Keep us updated!
Posted by: HungryForHeaven Nov 24 2013, 06:32 PM
Greg, I'm curious!
Posted by: Ben Higgins Nov 24 2013, 08:23 PM
Greg, one thing that helped me was trying to see how I could get the fastest tremolo picking going and then applied that to working on picking licks. I looked at what my hand as doing / but more importantly how it felt... and then kept my hand like that whilst working on general picking stuff.
Crossing strings is always going to be a notorious barrier... either you'll find outside picking harder or inside. For me, I really don't care a lot for inside picking.. it's noway near as easy for me as outside. 
Posted by: gregc1 Nov 24 2013, 09:33 PM
Hey Hungry and Ben, thanks for checking in!
I have been working on this although I have not been able to dedicate as much time as I would like on a daily basis. I actually have gotten a little quicker and can spit out a quick run here and there but nowhere near consistent.
Ben, speaking on hand position, I have been working on exactly this. A while ago I found that angling the pick did help it "slip" over the strings and flow a little smoother so I have been using that for a while but what I've found is that I think I'm using too much elbow and not enough wrist. I notice my entire lower arm moves and begins to lock up in pretty short order. When I focus on making my wrist more loose and relaxed (like natural strumming you mentioned in your video) and minimizing arm movement I can maintain for much longer with virtually no discomfort at all, BUT I can't go as fast as my natural arm tension method yet.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Nov 25 2013, 01:54 PM
I have been working on this although I have not been able to dedicate as much time as I would like on a daily basis. I actually have gotten a little quicker and can spit out a quick run here and there but nowhere near consistent.
Ben, speaking on hand position, I have been working on exactly this. A while ago I found that angling the pick did help it "slip" over the strings and flow a little smoother so I have been using that for a while but what I've found is that I think I'm using too much elbow and not enough wrist. I notice my entire lower arm moves and begins to lock up in pretty short order. When I focus on making my wrist more loose and relaxed (like natural strumming you mentioned in your video) and minimizing arm movement I can maintain for much longer with virtually no discomfort at all, BUT I can't go as fast as my natural arm tension method yet.
Good point here
I think it's simply a new thing for your body and it needs time to get accustomed to it and gain confidence - if we may say so Once you have done something for A LONG period of time, it becomes natural. Now you will mix efficient with natural and I am certain that the results will be great
As Andy James said in the video that Ben posted, there has to be a slight tension - but a controlled one. And I also remember Todd, talking about being able to feel the tension coming while playing and become able to relax without actually stopping
Posted by: gregc1 Nov 25 2013, 07:28 PM
I think it's simply a new thing for your body and it needs time to get accustomed to it and gain confidence - if we may say so Once you have done something for A LONG period of time, it becomes natural. Now you will mix efficient with natural and I am certain that the results will be great
As Andy James said in the video that Ben posted, there has to be a slight tension - but a controlled one. And I also remember Todd, talking about being able to feel the tension coming while playing and become able to relax without actually stopping Thanks Cosmin. I think you're exactly right, if I can mix in some loose wrist to what I'm doing it will go a long way when it comes to stamina.
Now the left hand is another story
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Nov 26 2013, 11:51 AM
Now the left hand is another story
Building a strong left hand, is by far a very important thing to do, which will have a lot to contribute at the hand synch - you can't have alternate picking without both hands so:
- legato
- right hand precision and stamina
- hand synch
These should be aspects which you need to keep in mind at all times - usually, if you can play a certain phrase with legato, you will be able to have more odds of success when trying AP on it, because the left hand will provide the support.
It seems tedious and at some points it really is tedious, but the results are usually there
Give it time and put in time
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